150 watt DE MH lamps compared

[traveller7]

Following on the heels of JB NY’s fantastic 250 watt bulb comparison, the burn in has started on the available 150 watt Double Ended Metal Halide bulb and ballast combinations. My personal reasons are strictly selfish: I have four 2x150 Aqua Medic aquastarlights and four new style PFO Mini Pendants. It is close to replacement time for all 12 bulbs and you can imagine a box of 150 DE bulbs each year is quite a commitment.

Measurements will be conducted in the same size box, with the same type of equipment, same sensor distance, and in the same manner as JB NY’s testing here:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=254667

Equipment to be used in the tests:
Apogee Instruments QMSS-ELEC Quantum Meter with remote sensor. Calibrated for electric lamps.
Apogee Instruments Leveling plate for the sensor.
APC Matrix 3000XR for power conditioning.
Electronics Educational Devices Watts Up? Pro (a Watts Up? is on hand for comparison to the exact device used in 250 SE testing)
Sony DCR-TRV30 for pictures at the moment.

The following bulbs are currently in the 120 hour burn in process on Advance M81 Ballasts:
Aqualine 150 watt 10000K
Colorlite Blue 150 watt PN BLV 224321 HIT-DE 150 blau
IceCap 150 watt 10000K
Ushio 150 watt 5200K? PN DD/UVP

The following bulbs are in transit:
CoralVue 150 watt 10000K
CoralVue 150 watt 20000K
Giesemann BLV Daylight 150 watt TS 6000K
Giesemann BLV Cool White 150 watt TS 10000K
Giesemann Megachrome Marine TS 150 watt 13000K

Sources for the following bulbs are sought and the bulbs will be scheduled pending purchase or confirmation of shipment:
CoralVue 6500K
Iwasaki 6500K
Iwasaki Aqua 50000K DE
Sylvania AquaArc 10000K
Ushio 10000K
Ushio 20000K

Ballasts on hand:
Advance M81

Ballasts in transit
CoralVue 150 watt Electronic Ballast

Sources for the following ballasts are sought and will be added pending purchase or confirmation of shipment:
Aromat
IceCap 150
Reliable

Other bulbs and ballasts can be added depending on the level of interest from the community and availability. Sources for the bulb or ballast along with the request will always be appreciated.

[saltyseaman]

WOOHOO!!!!! :bounce1: :bounce2: :bounce3:

[saltyseaman]

Oh Yeah, and I have a couple of other bulbs to add to that list if you want. 150W 20K XDE and 150W DE 6000K Osram. I also have some spare UV glass from a PFO mini pendant if you don't have any conveniently handy. PM me your address if you want them.

[MDLR1]

id like to see the hello lights ARO ballast tested

[wedfr]

Awesome!! The only thing i can think of to add is a 14000K Won brothers bulb that comes with there powersolar hoods, i can provide a new one for you in week or 2, i hope thats not too late, let me know.

And also the radium whic i do not have a source for.

[traveller7]

saltyseaman,

I'll send you a pm with a thank you and shipment details :)

MDLR1,

I actually buy quite a bit of HelloLights gear and have gone back and forth on the ballast based on the flickering reported in the last Sanjay test.

Anyone know whether the current HelloLights ballast is the same or different?

wedfr,

I'll send you a pm with a thank you and shipment details :) Let me know when you need me to send you a Watts Up? for your effort as well.

To all,

I believe or hope I already have all the ancillary gear I need (UV glass, burn in materials, etc) but I am still looking to find someone local that can take some better pics then I can :p Maybe one of those WAMAS professional photographers will lend a hand ;)

Thanks for the support folks, it will be interesting.

[saltyseaman]

If you want to wait for them to come in stock you can get the Radiums here

http://hellolights.com/150wat20hqir.html

or pay a lot and get them here

http://www.specialty-lights.com/al00825.html

Another Idea if you feel like making the investement would be to test some European bulbs. You can get these shipped to the US for like $45

http://www.sewatec.de/product_info.php/cPath/65_99_209/products_id/1333

http://www.sewatec.de/product_info.php/cPath/65_99_100/products_id/414/language/en

It would be real expensive to get them here, but it would be real interesting to see the results.

I am anxiously awaiting your PM Traveller

[moonpod]

traveller, I think the "Ushio" 20k and that colorite bulb are the same thing. I've got a couple of those....I can lend you an IC 150w already rigged for the PFO....
www.reefgeek.com carries the iwasaki 50k--it's distributed through sunlight supply--maybe perryinca will send you one....

[traveller7]

Originally posted by saltyseaman
If you want to wait for them to come in stock you can get the Radiums here.......
or pay a lot and get them hereGiven the burn in time required and pile of other bulbs already in route, something tells me to wait :D

Originally posted by moonpod
traveller, I think the "Ushio" 20k and that colorite bulb are the same thing. I've got a couple of those....I can lend you an IC 150w already rigged for the PFO....
www.reefgeek.com carries the iwasaki 50k--it's distributed through sunlight supply--maybe perryinca will send you one.... moonpod,

I'll send you a pm and I hear you loud and clear. I made an early list of 25 bulbs and it sure is/was tough to separate the OEMs. Some help here would be appreciated. At least Giesemann labels some of theirs BLV, hence why I chased them down early. The Colorlite is definitely BLV. I'll post the master list I have sometime over the next few days.

Side note, I think Perry is actually running a 50K over his personal tank. Maybe he'll swap me one for 45 days or so :D

Goodnight folks.

[want2reef]

Ya Baby Ya another comparo!

If 250 DE's are said to have as much par as 400 SE's, Then maybe you will find that the, 150 DE's are up to par with the 250 SE's.

Just a thought.

[MadTownMax]

Do all these bulbs come with a similar "mean time before Failure", or do some outlast others (with respect to output degredation).

This may be difficult to accomplish, as multiple identicle bulbs would have to be tested (although this applies to the current test also) to ensure that each bulb is manufactured to the same standards - something you should include in your results.

I'm asking this as I read that Geismann bulbs supposedly last 2 years, and I would like to know if this is common for DE bulbs.

[traveller7]

MadTownMax,

Thanks for the input and that concept was one of reasons I bought the test gear etc. I will be testing the bulbs I own at the 6, 12, and 18 month mark.

Not sure how to tell build quality other then that.

Thanks again.

[MadTownMax]

Originally posted by traveller7


Not sure how to tell build quality other then that.

Thanks again.

It would be interesting if people sent you their old bulbs, along w/ their hour usage, and you could get a very good comparison of how long each bulb lasts w/ different ballasts also.... not like it would cost anyone much.

[jauringer]

traveller7

I have a 1 and a 4 month old BLV 10k. I would be more than happy to send one of them to you.

[traveller7]

jauringer,

Much appreciated. I am working with folks on an OEM list so we can narrow down the named bulbs to the manufactured bulbs. I may already have the BLV's on hand.

Let's give it a few days to confirm the label versus the manufacturer ;)

Thanks again and sit tight until we can answer some questions.

Scott

[moonpod]

Scott, will mail the IC to you this week or early next week. Will use that account. Thanks. Chuck

[traveller7]

Thanks Chuck.

I'll slip the IC into the tables as soon as it arrives.

Thanks again for putting your equipment into the mix.

Scott

[Scleractinian]

Ok, after some confusion on my part, I'd like to play too. :)

I guess I'd better start reading more carefully and paying a bit more attention.

Okay. I'll sacrifice one of the 8 SLI 10k's I had intended to keep in reserve. I may also have a Giesseman 6700K that I'd be willing to LEND, as well as what I believe to be a Fulham prototype electronic 150w ballast, and an unknown (but quite blue) 150w DE lamp, just for giggles. The mystery ballast (see here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showt...&threadid=73842 ) and blue lamp came from the same industry source that imported the SLI 10k lamps that I've recently sold.

Scott and other involved parties, please contact me via PM or e-mail. I'd be VERY interested in the design of the trials, and especially how reflector/luminaire effects are addressed.

[Scleractinian]

Originally posted by traveller7 (BUT IN ANOTHER THREAD!!!)
SNIP

It would appear I already have 3 of the bulbs via OEM's. I still have not figured out the manufacturing and labeling but that is what testing is for ;>)

SNIP

Scott

Scott, It'd be quite interesting if you could simply post pics of all of the lamps, along with the name that they're being marketed under and their apparent manufacturer... I have a few 150w lamps of unknown make, though I suspect they are the HIT blues.

[MadTownMax]

Originally posted by Scleractinian
I'd be VERY interested in the design of the trials, and especially how reflector/luminaire effects are addressed.

I'm also very interested in reflectors, and their effect w/ different bulb geometries.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by Scleractinian
Scott, It'd be quite interesting if you could simply post pics of all of the lamps, along with the name that they're being marketed under and their apparent manufacturer... I have a few 150w lamps of unknown make, though I suspect they are the HIT blues.
I just got back from a business trip and will take some pictures of the bulbs and boxes that are on hand. I should be able to get the pics posted tonight. Thanks for the help Rob.

Scott

[riverbum]

Originally posted by traveller7
I just got back from a business trip and will take some pictures of the bulbs and boxes that are on hand. I should be able to get the pics posted tonight. Thanks for the help Rob.

Scott

I'm looking forward to seeing those. Good luck with the testing. I can't wait to see the results.

[saltyseaman]

Sanjay made an interesting post you might be interested in

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2080089#post2080089

[traveller7]

saltyseaman,

Saw the post and the box will support measurements from 1" to 21" but I'll be following JB's parameters as the primary focus. I'll hit the 18" mark on my gear and loaners that folks can spare for a longer period of time.

Scleractinian and Riverbum,

I'd like to see the pictures as well. Nature has decided to bless us with snow the last 2 nights and time has not allowed the photo op :(

I should have the following photos by tomorrow afternoon:

Bulbs I had on hand:
Aqualine 150 watt 10000K
Colorlite Blue 150 watt PN BLV 224321 HIT-DE 150 blau
IceCap 150 watt 10000K
Ushio 150 watt 5200K? PN DD/UVP

Bulbs loaned by saltyseaman:
Osram Daylight 6000K #1 estimated usage 1 yr
Osram Daylight 6000K #2 estimated usage 1 yr
Osram Daylight 6000K #3 estimated usage 1 week
XDE 20000K Estimated usage 900 hours

Bulbs loaned by ******* (waiting for permission to share the name ;) )
CoralVue 10000K
CoralVue 20000K
CoralVue 150 Electronic Ballast

Updates on additional inbound gear:

Giesemann BLV Daylight 150 watt TS 6000K (12/8 arrival)
Giesemann BLV Cool White 150 watt TS 10000K (12/8 arrival)
Giesemann Megachrome Marine TS 150 watt 13000K

I am still waiting on the Apogee Meter/sensor/plate to arrive. Box is ready for sensor mounting.

Bulbs are burning in and getting hours logged.

That's all for now.

Scott

[traveller7]

Talk about falling behind my hoped schedule.

The good news is fellow RCer's have come through with loaner gear, subsidized purchases, and source locations. The OEM matrix really seems to narrow the focus. Who knows how many "copies" I already have but why stop now ;>)

Given the delays to post any test results, I don’t want to assume previous offers are still out there, so please post or PM if you have gear you want to add to the party.

The following bulbs are on hand or confirmed shipped:

Aqualine 10000K
Colorlite Blue
CoralVue 10000K - Loaner from DIYReef.com (Thanks Justin)
CoralVue 20000K - Loaner from DIYReef.com (Thanks Justin)
Giesemann 6000K - Subsidized pricing by Giesemann (Thanks Phillip and Roger)
Giesemann 10000K - Subsidized pricing by Giesemann (Thanks Phillip and Roger)
Giesemann 13000K - Subsidized pricing by Giesemann (Thanks Phillip and Roger)
IceCap 10000K #1
IceCap 10000K # 2 w/400hrs
IceCap 10000K # 3 w/400hrs
Iwasaki 6500K - Subsidized pricing by ReefTropicals.com (Thanks Alex)
Iwasaki 50000K - Subsidized pricing by ReefTropicals.com (Thanks Alex)
Osram 6000K #1 w/1yr - Loaned by saltyseaman (Thank you much)
Osram 6000K #2 w/1yr - Loaned by saltyseaman (Thank you much)
Osram 6000K #3 w/1wk - Loaned by saltyseaman (Thank you much)
Osram 10000K - Subsidized pricing by ReefTropicals.com (Thanks Alex)
Ushio 5200K
Ushio 20000K - Subsidized pricing by ReefTropicals.com (Thanks Alex)
XDE 10000K
XDE 20000K
XDE 20000K #2 w/900hrs - Loaned by saltyseaman (Thank you much)

Bulbs on backorder:

Ushio 10000K - Subsidized pricing by ReefTropicals.com (Thanks Alex)

Still looking for the following bulbs:

CoralVue 6500K
Radium 20000K
Sylvania AquaArc 10000K

Ballasts on hand or confirmed shipped:

ARO HelloLights 150/175
Blueline 175 Eballast
CoralVue 150 Electronic – Loaned by DIYReef.com (Thanks Justin)
IceCap 150 – Loaned by moonpod (Thanks Chuck)
M81

Still looking for the following ballasts:

Giesemann Electronic
Reliable

Major hold up:

Apogee PAR meter is in a black hole, the test box is waiting and so am I. May need to jump to a Li-Cor 250 to get testing done over the holidays.

Once the meter shows up, the loaner gear goes first so that I can get it all back to the proper owners.

Thanks for all the help and may the Holiday Season provide the last few pieces and time for batch testing. A Nikon 4500 is on the way as well, the Sony DCR-TRV30 just can't handle the white balance issues for in tank comparisons. Not to mention, a better macro will be required if it is cleared to post detailed pics of the bulbs.

[MadTownMax]

Any comments on that 150/175 ballast?

I had posted in another forum about that one, kinda seems like an odd-ball ballast.

I also noticed that Premium Aquatics has them on clearance now, saying that they will not be selling any more - this after being sold-out of them as soon as they were posted on their site! I'd like to know what this ballast is all about!

[traveller7]

Apogee Update: Received email today saying the gear was shipping today via the 2 day air as ordered. Looks like the weekend might allow initial testing and tweaking after all :)
Originally posted by MadTownMax
Any comments on that 150/175 ballast?Currently all bulbs are getting burned in on the M81's. The ARO and the eballast both shipped yesterday. It will be interesting to see if either of them flicker with some of the bulbs. Won't know until next week soonest. Unfortunately, I saw the ARO at Premium while searching for Radium DE's; of course the day after I bought the ballast elsewhere :(

[veng68]

Woot :) Nice job......... I can't wait for the results :)

Cheers,
Victor [veng68]

[traveller7]

Apogee Meter arrived today, and assembly today ;)

Radium 150 DE ordered and shipped.
CV 6.5KK close to ship......

Maybe there is is still a Sylvania available to close the final loop......

Thanks for the patience folks, it will be interesting if nothing else ;)

[571958]

Plse take a look at this link for 3 types of Iwasaki color ARC 150W DE or SE bulbs.


http://www.iwasaki.co.uk/frameset-colorarc/colorarc_frames.html

The 20K Saki burn like a 11K or 12K bulb, totally white and reliability is excellence. After 11 mths, it is still very white, very little shift in color.

BTW, 20K saki intensity is 8000lm compare to BLV/Ushio of 7000lm.


Max

[veng68]

I don't think we can get the 20K DE in the North American Market.

Cheers,
Victor [veng68]

[Scleractinian]

Originally posted by traveller7

Maybe there is is still a Sylvania available to close the final loop......



Urrrrg... I get excited about my Corals of the World set arriving, decide (again) on 4x150 DE on my 65, figure out my closed loop, finally decide on an aragonite reactor (ReefTek), and totally forget to follow up here.

Scott, PM me w/ shipping info (I think that you mentioned a Fed-Ex acct.) and I'll do my best to get one out tomorrow.


I can throw in a couple of pair of 150DE lampholders (both the steel clip "low profile" and the "heavy duty" ceramic) if you need them for burn in, etc.

[Scleractinian]

Originally posted by veng68
I don't think we can get the 20K DE in the North American Market.

Cheers,
Victor [veng68]

I believe that Hellolights sells both the Radium 150DE and their "house brand" (XDE) in 20K. IIRC, Coralvue's also marketing one.

[moonpod]

Rob I think he was specifically referring to the iwasaki 20k DE which is listed as a separate bulb from the 6500k and the 50k in their catalog.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by 571958
Plse take a look at this link for 3 types of Iwasaki color ARC 150W DE or SE bulbs.

.................Much appreciated. I did not know Iwasaki had a 20K DE, now if we can only get our hands on one here in the states :)

For what it is worth, I currently have in the following in the 10K plus range:

BLV Colorlite Blue
CoralVue 20KK
Giesemann 13KK
Iwasaki 50KK
Radium
Ushio 20KK
XDE 20KK

[traveller7]

Originally posted by Scleractinian
.......
Scott, PM me w/ shipping info (I think that you mentioned a Fed-Ex acct.) and I'll do my best to get one out tomorrow.
.....
Rob,

You've got PM. Thanks for adding a "hard to get stateside" bulb brand into the mix :)

Scott

[Scleractinian]

Originally posted by moonpod
Rob I think he was specifically referring to the iwasaki 20k DE which is listed as a separate bulb from the 6500k and the 50k in their catalog.

Ooh... there I go not reading the whole thread again.

[Scleractinian]

Originally posted by traveller7
I just got back from a business trip and will take some pictures of the bulbs and boxes that are on hand. I should be able to get the pics posted tonight. Thanks for the help Rob.

Scott

Scott, did you ever get the comparo pics of the unlit lamps?

BTW, got your PM, will get stuff together this evening and try for shipment tomorrow.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by Scleractinian
Scott, did you ever get the comparo pics of the unlit lamps?

BTW, got your PM, will get stuff together this evening and try for shipment tomorrow.

Rob,

Yes, I took pics but I need to get some concerns addressed prior to posting. In addition, I have a few more bulbs inbound that will be most interesting to compare ;>)

Thanks again,

Scott

[kmu]

Tagging along...

[mmoss]

How long do you expect this test to take? Curious since I am looking for lighting options in the next 2-3 months.

Max

[traveller7]

It appears we'll have 6 Ballasts and 25 Bulbs.

I am going after the loaner gear and the more popular combos first.

I figure I'll have them done at 8" distance by end of Jan 04.

Hope that helps.

Scott

[want2reef]

Originally posted by mmoss
How long do you expect this test to take? Curious since I am looking for lighting options in the next 2-3 months.

Max


Ya, I'm waiting on the results too.

I just can't decide on the 150 DE or the 250 SE.

After travler is done with his tests I think I will decide. Finally!

Thanks again traveller7.

[kmu]

I will get the bulb and ballast depending on you test...

THX in advance...

[571958]

Hi Scott,
what's your address, I can ship you one new 20,000K Iwasaki DE 150W. It will take probably 2 weeks with normally courier to US.

Max





Originally posted by traveller7
Much appreciated. I did not know Iwasaki had a 20K DE, now if we can only get our hands on one here in the states :)

For what it is worth, I currently have in the following in the 10K plus range:

BLV Colorlite Blue
CoralVue 20KK
Giesemann 13KK
Iwasaki 50KK
Radium
Ushio 20KK
XDE 20KK :bum: :bum: :mixed: :mixed: :mixed:

[kmu]

I would love to see a 150watt DE Aqua Spacelight in this test...
Probably use the same bulb and ballast on the test...

[electric130]

Originally posted by kmu
I would love to see a 150watt DE Aqua Spacelight in this test...
Probably use the same bulb and ballast on the test... but then you're getting reflectors involved and that won't keep things standardized.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by kmu
I would love to see a 150watt DE Aqua Spacelight in this test...
Probably use the same bulb and ballast on the test... For what it is worth I have four 2x150 AquaSpaceLights that I hope to be using for burn in. I may include them in some comparison photos, but the tanks they are lighting are mostly clams and have not been very indicative of the color differences between bulbs.

Comparison photos will likely be taken with PFO mini's over a tank with SPS, LPS, Softies, and some Anemone.

As electric130 shared, the PAR tests will not include reflectors, just the bare bulb and ballasts.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by 571958
Hi Scott,
what's your address, I can ship you one new 20,000K Iwasaki DE 150W. It will take probably 2 weeks with normally courier to US. ...............Time we have :)

Sending you a PM with my mailing address. I really appreciate the extra effort you are making. Thank you Max.

Scott

[kmu]

Yeah I know there are not going to be any reflectors or fixtures involved, thats why I said "Probably use the same bulb and ballast on the test" as in referring to the Aqua Spacelight equipment (bulb and ballast in fixture)


THX guys...

[MadTownMax]

As far as reflectors go, is there anything out there that is better than a Reef Optics III, I was planning on getting two of these, then whatever bulbs come out of this test in good standing (and which color I like of course :D ) and then whichever electronic ballast comes out on top (heavily interested in the 150/175 ballast in case I go to a deeper tank in the future and want the extra punch of a 175).

any idea which of these bulbs will last the longest - this will probably be number one in my deciding factors

thanks in advance

[traveller7]

Originally posted by kmu
Yeah I know there are not going to be any reflectors or fixtures involved, thats why I said "Probably use the same bulb and ballast on the test" as in referring to the Aqua Spacelight equipment (bulb and ballast in fixture)


THX guys... Opps, my apologies.

While I have a few new AB10K bulbs from the AB spacelights, I purchased all of my rails without ballasts :rolleyes: I already had a pile of M81's and wanted to remote the ballasts.

If anyone has an AB ballast or other AB color temp bulb I can add them to the mix.

Thanks.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by MadTownMax
As far as reflectors go, is there anything out there that is better than a Reef Optics III, I was planning on getting two of these..................Nothing I have found with directly comparable data. From Sanjay's testing the ROIIIs would seem to edge the new style PFO mini's in the DE world, but the difference is in minimal in my opinion. In the SE world it still appears the Diamonds Luminarc IIIs rule the roost.

What would be really interesting, would be a comparison between:

150 DE ROIII and a 175 SE Diamond Luminarc III
250 DE ROIII and a 250 SE Diamond Luminarc III
250 DE ROIII and a 400 SE Diamond Luminarc III

;>) but that is a different test :p

Full disclosure: I own 4 PFO new style mini's, 4 Diamond LAIII's, and plenty of AB aquaspacelight 2x150 rails.

It's Monday I am off to real life folks.

Thanks.

[saltyseaman]

Just thought I would let you know that the AB DE 20K (http://www.aqua-medic.de/cgi-bin/php/display_product.php3?p_id=151&lang=en&cat_id=15) lamps just shipped out of the Aquamedic Warehouse today. They are available at Premium Aquatics (http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv) , Custom Aquatic (http://customaquatic.com/customaquatic/index.asp) and Ocean Encounter (http://oceanencounter.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv) . They aren't listed on some of those sites yet, but will be shortly. I know the 250W Version is available for sure, so I figure the 150W version is too. Just thought I would let you know.

[saltyseaman]

Sorry, I jumped to conclusions. The DE 20K AB lamp is only available in the 250W version in the US as of now. :sad1:

[traveller7]

Saltyseaman, I sent of a request to gather some more goodies, thanks for the lead ;) Scott

Update on a few things:

Replaced the floor of the box and painted again. While the mounting was flexible so that I could increase the measured distances easily, it also allowed the leveling base to shift too much. Hope tomorrows tinkering allows the new solution to be more stable :(

The coolpix 4500 I picked up to take pictures appears to be defective :(

Off to tinker and wish me luck.

[saltyseaman]

I just remembered some more very affordable 150W DE lamps. Catalina is the brand. I posted a thread a while back about them but no one had heard of them.

http://petsupplyliquidator.com/htm/replacementbulbs_metalhalide.htm#mh3

They come in 10K and 20K. For $36 they sound very tempting. I wonder how they test ;) ......

[moonpod]

Those lamps got a lousy rep--at least the 70w versions do. If you troll the nano-reef board, those things die left and right.

[saltyseaman]

Thanx for the heads-up Moonpod!!

[electric130]

Originally posted by saltyseaman
They come in 10K and 20K. For $36 they sound very tempting. I wonder how they test ;) ...... the 10k's look greener and yellower than an Iwasaki!:(

[traveller7]

Originally posted by electric130
the 10k's look greener and yellower than an Iwasaki!:( Ouch.

[saltyseaman]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by electric130
the 10k's look greener and yellower than an Iwasaki!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ouch.
LOL :lol:

[electric130]

i have a 175w version collecting dust in my garage if you want it.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by electric130
i have a 175w version collecting dust in my garage if you want it. If my freshwater plants ever recover from burning in saltyseaman's Osram 6000k's I'll let you know :D

[traveller7]

Started burning in a new Coralvue 20K and a new XM 20K next to each other. They are both driven by M81's within the same AB aquastarlight fixture. Color and intensity look identical at the moment.

Looks like the box and sensor are stable so we might actually get this on the road with results this weekend. :)

Pics are going to be garbage until I get the Coolpix 4500 repaired :(

Hope New Years treated everyone well.

[kmu]

Cant wait for the results... Hope they come out soon...

THX again for everything...

[kmu]

Will there be another thread with the result or they will be posted here?

[traveller7]

Originally posted by kmu
Will there be another thread with the result or they will be posted here? Good question, do you folks have a preference?

I guess, results will either be in this thread or linked to make it easy to find.

I'll be talking to the mods in a few days or so about formatting, etc.

[lactrain]

Well Im a new guy here .... and I just bought a Aquastarlight 2x150 .... guess i best pay attention here.

Just tagging along and showing appreciaiton for all the work and support.

[kmu]

traveller7: you can start a new thread with the results and pictures posted, and keep updating it with new bulb tests and ballasts, that way people will see the results faster and not get caught loosing valuable information in between the pages if the thread gets too long, which will probably get...

Just my $.02

[traveller7]

kmu,

I agree, that either it is a new thread or an edit to post number one on this thread ;)

Depends on the mood of the moderators on the days I ask :)

Thanks for the input.

[electric130]

i would say a new thread that shows all the results and pics that is locked so that people can't post there and stuff gets lost in 40 pages of posts. then people can come to this thread or another thread to discuss results. make sense?

[moonpod]

agree w/JR

[Yu L LI]

I beleive to do the right readings, it must be done with SpectaRaiomete and full lab equipment.
May be should read the energy under water.
What do you guys think.

[electric130]

Originally posted by Yu L LI
May be should read the energy under water. to many variables: ambient light, reflectors or no, distances varying, color of canopy, etc.

[Yu L LI]

I think that should be a general idea to the hobbiest to understand the light Lamp etc. and what spectrum their lighting is giving them.
Once the hobbiest understand what spectrum they are targeting. They can gear their light toward what they really want for the animals.
This way, the hobby can be more enjoyable for all.

[MadTownMax]

is there any data on these lights as to "how" much light penetrates to "what" depth, there should be an easy equation, given slight variability due to particulates

[traveller7]

Originally posted by Yu L LI
I think that should be a general idea to the hobbiest to understand the light Lamp etc. and what spectrum their lighting is giving them.
Once the hobbiest understand what spectrum they are targeting. They can gear their light toward what they really want for the animals.
This way, the hobby can be more enjoyable for all. Very true, with the exception of substantial differences in the performance between ballasts and bulbs of similar spectrum. Not to mention the vast differences in reflector efficiency, etc.

In the best of all worlds you would have data to determine, spectrum, PAR, reflector coverage, reflector efficiency, ballast efficiency, and ballast/bulb interaction. This test is only 2 or 3 of those pieces. Spectrum has been tested by Sanjay Joshi in the past and I'll be offering the bulbs I own for testing as his time allows.

Hope that helps.

[kmu]

To the top, once more...

[traveller7]

Thanks ;>)

Update: I have been taking measurements and playing with the burned in bulbs to confirm the process of bulb and ballast changes do not create deviations in measurement. It appears the new box bottom solved a previous problem with sensor alignment and stability. Looks like it is going to perform properly.

[MadTownMax]

Originally posted by traveller7
Very true, with the exception of substantial differences in the performance between ballasts and bulbs of similar spectrum. Not to mention the vast differences in reflector efficiency, etc.

In the best of all worlds you would have data to determine, spectrum, PAR, reflector coverage, reflector efficiency, ballast efficiency, and ballast/bulb interaction. This test is only 2 or 3 of those pieces. Spectrum has been tested by Sanjay Joshi in the past and I'll be offering the bulbs I own for testing as his time allows.

Hope that helps.


Well, if we really want to get into the nitty gritty of things, anyone who posts results should also post what kind of error is associated with those results, due mostly to equipment used, and it's respective accuracy.

Once we have this data we will still need multiple testers (not just sanjay;), though he does deserve a lot of credit for his work ) to test multiple bulbs, so that we can assess which bulbs are CONSISTANTLY well made.

With any one of these tests, I'm speculating that you can get at least a 5% error, due to equipment, (so results that show that one bulb has 5% higher output than another might as well say that they are the same)

I have not the slightest clue what differences there may be between different bulbs of the same brand/watt/K-temperature, -hopefully not much, but it would be nice to know - just testing a few would might turn out to be a real eye-opener :eek1: can't wait to see those results.



Just a few wrenches to throw into the old testing regime

[JB NY]

I think it is best if you take with a grain of salt, any difference under 15%. Manufactures for the most part claim this to be the margin of error between lamps of the same brand.

[electric130]

Originally posted by MadTownMax
With any one of these tests, I'm speculating that you can get at least a 5% error, due to equipment, (so results that show that one bulb has 5% higher output than another might as well say that they are the same) Sanjay puts the numbers even higher:

Originally posted by Sanjay
I personally tend to ignore differences within 10% of each other. Its the larger differences that are more indicative of the difference between lamps. Ofcourse you also have to remember that lamps with similar PPFD values can have very different spectral outputs.


sanjay. this was over on page 26 of JBNY's 250w thread.

[JB NY]

I think most of the issues have been cleared up already. Even being able to compare these tests to Sanjay's have been settled. I had Sanjay test most of my lamps, and using the inverse square formula (posted in the other thread) most of his readings were spot on to the ones I did.

I very confidant that these tests Scott is doing will be just fine.

[MadTownMax]

Thanks for the input electric and JB.

15% difference between the same bulbs!!!!! - kinda scary, that's the sort of thing that makes me want to go buy these bulbs at a store w/ a lux meter, so I can check a few and get a good one ;).

[JB NY]

Even that wouldn't work. If you test a brand new bulb, over the first 100 hrs you will steadly watch the output go down until it settles at a number.

[electric130]

Originally posted by JB NY
Even that wouldn't work. If you test a brand new bulb, over the first 100 hrs you will steadly watch the output go down until it settles at a number. and they all will still "settle" differently.

[reefman33]

sounds great, any estimate when you will start posting figures?

[ExtremeReefer]

Good thread, tagging along for the ride......

[traveller7]

Originally posted by reefman33
sounds great, any estimate when you will start posting figures? Looks like this weekend for the first few. Expect to be dealing with format, issues etc, early on. Most of the bulbs are still burning up to the 100+ hour marks over tanks on real world 6-10 hour schedules.

Based on Joe's experience and input, I spent quite a bit of time making sure the process of swapping bulbs, ballasts, operating temps, etc., did not change results. Lots of quick disconnects, ballast mounts, box bottoms later, it looks like it is finally idiot proof and giving consistent results. It was sure nice to have some well burned in loaner bulbs from saltyseaman to help out with this process.

Representative photos are a challenge until my Coolpix 4500 is returned from repair.

I did take photos of all the bulbs and will be talking to an RC'er about hosting the pics for a consistent and comparative view ;)

Unfortunately, I have lots of real life to work on until this weekend.

Cheers.

[traveller7]

Spent most of today laughing at myself and time wasted.

Turns out that for all the talk about "leveling" it really does not make that much difference at 8" distance :o

Now we are having fun ;)

[traveller7]

Now we are not having fun.

16 hours of burning, etc and I need to add a heat sink behind the 150 DE bracket. The wood is too close and has blackened through the paint and smells of burning. These jokers are hot, very hot.

I am looking at a piece of ceramic tile or black foil at the moment.

Off to home depot before they close.

After mod, I'll need to rerun a 2 bulbs to make sure I have not made significant changes in readings. :(

Update tonight.

[reefman33]

i cant wait.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by traveller7
........Off to home depot before they close......That was fruitless. They had material, but nothing that looked like it would work in the manner necessary, so.....

I painted an old IceCap heatsink from an IC660 in flat black. After it dries, I'll check it for values against the flat black wood to see whether it makes a measureable difference.

It looks like it will work well, but the ability to easily go from 70wt/150wt bulbs has left the building :(

[jauringer]

^

[reefman33]

coem on give us just a little bit. one reading? anything please

[traveller7]

Originally posted by reefman33
coem on give us just a little bit. one reading? anything please A 6 month old 120wt Phillips Agro-Lite has a PAR reading of 35 @ 8" from the bulb :D

Really, and I have been using them instead of these 6K 150DEs? :( The delays are painful for me as well :(

I would love to share the readings just to get going, but they are with 3 different backings. The new heatshield was acting as a reflector, so I painted it in a flat krinkle coating and will check it tomorrow. Until we get a good baseline it really is a pointless comparison of bulbs :( The big mistake on my part was not working out the kinks prior to posting anything at all. My apologies for that.

More news:

One of the mods, DJ88, has offered to help out on handling the posting, so this thread will be for discussion only and the results will be posted in a new thread which will be closed. DJ will be adding the updates as I send them. Good idea electric130 :)

I have some more good news, it does not appear I am going to burn down my house and I just called Geico.

Have a great night and hang in there, the good stuff is so close it can be tasted.

[electric130]

Originally posted by traveller7
One of the mods, DJ88, has offered to help out on handling the posting, so this thread will be for discussion only and the results will be posted in a new thread which will be closed. DJ will be adding the updates as I send them. Good idea electric130 :) great, it will be easier and quicker to get results for people who just want to see which one is "better." although, that's always argueable, which in that case they can come here. :lol: thanks for all your hard work on this. we all really appreciate it.

[reefman33]

dont worry about the delays. these things always have kinks to work out i am just really excited to see how these things compare to 250watt bulbs and how much light they really put out.

Glad you wont be burning anythign down lol

[gcarroll]

Just wondering if you will be using the UV shield in your test?

[traveller7]

Originally posted by reefman33
dont worry about the delays. these things always have kinks to work out i am just really excited to see how these things compare to 250watt bulbs and how much light they really put out.

Glad you wont be burning anythign down lol I am excited as well :DOriginally posted by gcarroll
Just wondering if you will be using the UV shield in your test? Yes. I am using the shield from an AB aquaspacelight.

I have a PFO mini-Pendant shields as well but the AB shield fits the 23" wide box better soooo :)

Side note to all. I know I am going to be using the results to make decisions on my purchases so, like JB's test, I am being very careful to get it right instead of just getting it done. Good news is it appears it is looking pretty good. Checking off one more variable to be sure.

Thanks for the patience and the support.

Scott

[kmu]

Once again THX for all your time and effort for this test...

SOunds like you will pick the winner for my next set up... an oceanic 37g Cube... 24x20x20...

[electric130]

Originally posted by gcarroll
Just wondering if you will be using the UV shield in your test? good question, it would also be interesting to see how the shield affects readings. you know, one set with shield, and one set without. not that you would ever run a DE without one, but still would be cool to see.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by electric130
good question, it would also be interesting to see how the shield affects readings. you know, one set with shield, and one set without. not that you would ever run a DE without one, but still would be cool to see. Sanjay has got that one covered here:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/feature2.htm

fwiw: This test will be adding 14+ more bulbs and 2+ additional ballasts.

[electric130]

Originally posted by traveller7
Sanjay has got that one covered here:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/feature2.htm doh! should have paid attention better when i read that article.:rolleyes:

[rbonin]

traveller7,

Maybe I missed the discussion in this rather long thread, but I was wondering if you were going to do some kind of evaluation of the color of these bulbs, either subjective or objective, along with testing their intensity, etc..

I am currently using the 150W AB 10000K DE bulb without supplimental actinics (no room in canopy), and while the color is OK, I would like to find a bulb that is a bit bluer without sacrificing too much PAR. I am interested in what you find out about the Giesemann Megachrome Marine TS 150 watt 13000K, for example.

This looks to be a huge undertaking on your part... and much appreciated by your fellow reefers.

~Rick~

[traveller7]

rbonin,

The intent is to post representative pics of the bulbs in use over the same tank position. In tinkering, I prefer the side by side comparison using the 2x150 fixture. I have not been able to capture and edit the photo to what I feel is color accurate, but the side by side seems to give a reasonable indicator of scale.

We'll see. At the moment I am focused on verifying measurements for accuracy of the test set up.

Welcome aboard and thank you.

Scott

[unsped]

i would be interested in some PAR comparisons against some CF bulbs for a sense of scale as well. ive been comparing my 130w pc to my 150w pfo 20k pendant. and what i know in my head and what i see are 2 different things. maybe some number would convince my eyes lol.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by unsped
i would be interested in some PAR comparisons against some CF bulbs for a sense of scale as well. ive been comparing my 130w pc to my 150w pfo 20k pendant. and what i know in my head and what i see are 2 different things. maybe some number would convince my eyes lol. unsped, I imagine you are referring to power compact bulbs which are going to be a whole other animal. After I get through the growing pile of 150's and then the 70's we can see ;>) Lots of issues in testing PC setups though and the gear I have will not likely be representative :(

Scott

[moonpod]

Originally posted by unsped
i would be interested in some PAR comparisons against some CF bulbs for a sense of scale as well. ive been comparing my 130w pc to my 150w pfo 20k pendant. and what i know in my head and what i see are 2 different things. maybe some number would convince my eyes lol.

I imagine what you are saying unsped is that 130w PC "looks" brighter to you than 150w 20k right? That's entirely possible depending on which 20k bulb you're using and what combo of PC bulbs. The 20k bulbs are not all the same, and they are in general always "dim" appearing to the eye. pop a iwasaki 6500k in that pendant and you'll have no doubts in your mind.

[JB NY]

Originally posted by moonpod
pop a iwasaki 6500k in that pendant and you'll have no doubts in your mind.

:lol:

[CCG]

Ok here’s a question for anyone willing. It’s said that 65K bulbs are the brightest looking and 20K bulbs are the dimmest looking. Are the 20K’s dim because people don’t see blue light as well as green, yellow? Putting it another way is the total amount of light from either bulb the same and we just perceive one as being brighter or does one really put out more total light than the other. Thanks

Colin

[moonpod]

Uhm....the short answer to you Colin is yes. The long answer is that 20k's also prolly don't put out as much absolute light so it's a factor of what our eyes perceive as well as absolute light output. Also some of this factors into PAR readings vs lumens etc...if you look at JBNY's work on 250w bulbs, you'll notice that across the board the 20k bulbs put out much less par than the 6.5ks and 10ks. But the difference is magnified by what our eyes perceive as well I believe.

[CCG]

Thank you very much Moonpod for your answer. That’s what I thought.

Colin

[Scleractinian]

Originally posted by CCG
Ok here’s a question for anyone willing. It’s said that 65K bulbs are the brightest looking and 20K bulbs are the dimmest looking. Are the 20K’s dim because people don’t see blue light as well as green, yellow? Putting it another way is the total amount of light from either bulb the same and we just perceive one as being brighter or does one really put out more total light than the other. Thanks

Colin

I believe that one of Sanjay's earliest tests (years ago, if it was even Sanjay... maybe Dana Riddle, published in SeaNotes) showed that the Iwasaki 250w 6500K lamp actually put out MORE blue than, IIRC, the 250w Coralife 20kK, but that because it's yellow/green output was so high, your eyes didn't see the blue.

[JB NY]

I'm cuting and pasting from another dicussion I was having.

Radium/xm type blue bulbs provide almost all their intensity in one small band 450nm, and two other bands, 412nm and 546nm. Both these other two bands are aprox. 25% and 19% the intensity of the 450nm band. Still this is only three bands in the entire spectrum. The rest of the spectrum, not including those three mentioned, irradiate only about 11% in the radium and 3% in the XM, of the intensity of that 450nm peak.

Now if you look at the Iwasaki, it's two peaks in the 400-500nm range are at 420nm and 490nm. but the average of almost the entire band from 400-500nm is about 80% of the peak value seen at 420nm. With the lowest point of the Iwasaki being 40% of the peak at 420nm.

[PRRD]

any prgoress here?

[traveller7]

Originally posted by PRRD
any prgoress here? Yes and
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

....a bit more tweaking and some real life activity required.

[unsped]

i imagine part of the reason pc's might look brighter somewhat is due to the added sub surface scattering due to a longer fixture.

gives the tank much more of a radiosity effect, whereas MH's focused source of light produces more intense but less scattered light. hence the shimmer, and increased shadow/light contrast.

just a guess.

[cwboomer]

can't wait for the pics...cool!

[PRRD]

thanks for the welcome, i cant wait to see reults, this looks like a great thread

[PRRD]

dont want to be a pest, but i check this thread like 3 times a day. Hows it going?

[traveller7]

Real life sucked up all available hours the last week and depending on the weather in the east, might again this week.

[kmu]

Any testing done yet? updates?

[PRRD]

KMU: he just replied saying he didnt have time, but changin gthe subject, do you have a frag of those zoos in your icon youd be willing to sell

[ChrisRD]

^^^

[kmu]

I need to buy my 150 HQI...

waiting for the results...

THX in advance...

[want2reef]

Originally posted by kmu
I need to buy my 150 HQI...

waiting for the results...

THX in advance...

I am setting up a 29gal.

Waiting on results too.

[veng68]

Be patient......... with that many bulbs & tests.......... it's going to be a little while.

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

[traveller7]

Originally posted by veng68
Be patient......... with that many bulbs & tests.......... it's going to be a little while.

Cheers,
Vic [veng68] You are not kidding. I did not consider just how long it takes to burn in this many bulbs.

To set some expectations:

Results will be posted by single bulb against the 5 ballasts I have on hand.

Some interesting data from bulbs with est 3,000+ hours vs 150 hours. Burning in another new one to 150 to confirm the result.

Re-labling has added a few wrinkles to the process, still working on that one.

G'night, an early morning in Real Life is calling.

[Sloth]

taggity tag tag

[JB NY]

Originally posted by traveller7
You are not kidding. I did not consider just how long it takes to burn in this many bulbs.


LOL. It sucks time up like no tomorrow.

[Medaka]

:fish1:

[Fishkiller63]

any progress?

[gtrestoration]

FK 63...

You had me all excited thinking I'd come here and see complete results posted.

:D :lol: :D

Steve U

[traveller7]

Sorry gtrestoration :(

Ran through a batch of bulbs in similar configurations. Data is all within margin of testing error against known values. One variable seems to be the transmission of the UV shield.

Re-running with a different brand UV shield to eliminate potential test set up issues, etc. Good news is it appears to be the shield itself and not the test procedure or set-up.

Pending confirmation this week, I'll post the values I have collected. I find I can run through "one bulb vs. 5 ballasts" per night on days I have time, so they should pop up almost daily from initial post.

Still need to settle on a method to permanently watermark the results and pics. Seems folks have been stealing the 250 test and re-labeling it as their own.

Sort of takes the wind from your sails, don't it.

[gtrestoration]

traveller7... AKA Someone spending a lot of time to supply information to others.

I wasn't trying to be a SA or critical, just funning around. Your efforts are appreciated by me and many others. Also I think we can believe your results when they are finished since you are not just flying through it. The results must be repeatable to be of any real value within a certain percentage of course.

I can also understand your wanting to retain the information and images as your own. The internet has created a lot good things but also a lot of dishonesty and thievery

Steve U

[traveller7]

Originally posted by gtrestoration
.......I wasn't trying to be a SA or critical, just funning around....Hehe, I did not view your disappointment with a hint of SA, no pain here my friend :)

I am personally disappointed on the pace, but the right results are worth taking the time to put them in the realm of discussion instead of reproach.

Lucky for me, others are already working on the content protection ;)

Stay steady folks.

[want2reef]

Again, thanks for your hard work.

[Mickey]

Patiently waiting your results. Really appreciate your efforts so continue to take your time. We can't ask for more. Thanks so much for doing this.

Mickey

[saltyseaman]

Here's something to help tide you guys over untill Traveller unleashes his test results.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2004/feature1.htm

Have fun!!!

[mmoss]

This seems like a good thread for my question. Please help if you can.

How deep is the tank you are putting 150 watt lighting on? I am building a 24 inch deep on and debating between 150 and 250 HQI Geismann unit.

Thanks,
Max

[traveller7]

Originally posted by mmoss
.....How deep is the tank you are putting 150 watt lighting on? I am building a 24 inch deep on and debating between 150 and 250 HQI Geismann unit.....Max,

Not sure which of my systems is most representative for the species you want to keep but an interesting example after current mods:

52"L tank, 17" sand to surface, 2x150DE 6" off water surface.
- 10K's were great for clams, sps, lps, etc over the last year.
- 20K's look great but the clams just don't seem to be happy and the corals have slowed growth considerably, so I am adding a 6.5K or 10K between the 20K's tomorrow: 3x150.

I also run 150DEs over a 32" depth tank for 12 hours, but kick in 400's for 6 hours+ a day.

IMHO, go with the 250's so you can choose a single bulb per lighting area, in a color you like that still delivers necessary par for a large variety of critters. Even more the case if you like the bulbs as blue as I do :)

Good luck

[StephenA]

I've got the 150W Geismann on my tank, I'm switching from a 72 to a 120G and will add a 250W in the middle with a 20K bulb. Go with the Nova II Series, very clean looking, small.

[Fishkiller63]

any progress happening? Setting up a new 40G Stretch Hex and would love to see the data from these things.

[traveller7]

Sloggin' along.

A new ballast arrived.
Ordered a few replacement lamps, long story for later.

Found a measureable differences in the UV shields.

Testing space a bit reduced by my new clowns, but the adventure continues.

Busy time with work, leaves only about 1 day a week, which is not much.

[ChrisRD]

^^^

[banzai75x]

Tag

[traveller7]

Work schedule and a slight clownfish detour derailed progress for awhile, but I have been able to burn a few more bulbs to test during that time.

Hope to add a few of interest and post something this Sunday.

Cheers.

[Fishkiller63]

oh man you had me, i saw you replied to the thread and i was like yessssssssssssss results are in. Pleae get them up this sunday im setting up a new 40 gallon tank and this data will make my decsion for me

[traveller7]

Sorry to dash your hopes Fishkiller63 :(

[smokinreefer]

first off, hats off to you traveller7!
i am patiently anticipating your test results.

now, i would like to pick the brains of all you 150W DE users...
and my apologies if i am detracting from this thread...

i am entertaining the idea of lighting a 30"wide tank with a 150WDE lamp. now i realize there is not going to be much intensity on the perimeter of a tank of that width, but will there be enough light to house mushrooms, ricordias, and zoos on the outer areas of the tank? what are your opinions on this?

or would all of you 150WDE users like to post pics of your tanks, so we can see the differences in tank size and animals kept with these lights?

i am pretty set on using 150WDEs... geismann is what i want!
i just dont want to regret not getting 250WDEs... quick growth rates are not of concern to me... but i do want to be sure that i can provide (more than) adequate lighting conditions with the 150s.

thank you very much for your time.

[gtrestoration]

smokinreefer

I think you will be fine with the things you are thinking of keeping. Just keep in mind that it may look dimmer at the ends. This to of course depends on how deep the tank is and where you plan to keep what might need strong light.

I have a 150 DE on a standard 20 and feel I can keep most anything in the tank if placed correctly.

Steve U

[banzai75x]

No test results yet?

[traveller7]

Originally posted by banzai75x
No test results yet? Down to working through 1 bulb per week due to other obligations :( Scheduled time off should allow completion early April.

To top it all off, the 70wter's are just sitting idle :rolleyes:

[scot]

I bought an Iwaski MTD150AQUA-7S (10k) bulb and I'm running it on the Ice Cap Ballast for my frag tank. This combo blew me away, on my two different "cheap" light meters it measures as bright as 250w DE 10k AB bulbs on Ice Cap ballasts. Also measures brighter than the Coralvue 250w DE 10K bulbs (which are really blue in color, almost looks like 20k). The color of the 150w bulb is crisp white, makes the ABs look very yellow. All the corals that were under this bulb took on a richer, brighter color. I,m soo impressed I'm going to replace my 250s with the 150s.

I can't wait to see some real numbers from your test, I think we'll be surprised.

Scot

[traveller7]

Originally posted by scot
I bought an Iwaski MTD150AQUA-7S (10k) bulb and I'm running it on the Ice Cap Ballast for my frag tank. This combo blew me away, on my two different "cheap" light meters it measures as bright as 250w DE 10k AB bulbs on Ice Cap ballasts. Also measures brighter than the Coralvue 250w DE 10K bulbs (which are really blue in color, almost looks like 20k). The color of the 150w bulb is crisp white, makes the ABs look very yellow. All the corals that were under this bulb took on a richer, brighter color. I,m soo impressed I'm going to replace my 250s with the 150s.....My measurements and all the other test reports I have found do not align with your experience. The 70wt, 150wt, 250wt, and even 400wt I have put through this test set up to determine proper configuration fell in line with smaller tests.

But then I am only halfway through 23 bulbs, so there could be a magic combo left to be found ;>)

Enjoy your system, I have found a few I like as well.

Cheers.

PS: The MTD150AQUA-7S is sold in the states as the 50K bulb, not quite 50K is it?

PSS: I would not mind getting one of the iwasaki 10K bulbs, would you PM a US source of the 10K? Thanks.

[scot]

Your right, they market it as a 50k, I forgot, it looks like it's 10K.

The thing that's different about my findings is the bulbs are in fixtures above the tank. My light meters are only good for comparing lights side by side in place over a tank. I could never duplicate results like your set up.

I think there's a need for the measurments your taking, but I sure would like to see a standard set-up including a fixture established amongst the people testing. I like to see the effects of different ballasts, different fixtures would be cool to. It's only time, right. LOL.

[traveller7]

scot,


I too would like to see some full system testing but the proper test gear is beyond my wallet's reach ;>)

Good news is Sanjay has done some great reflector testing already which can be coupled with JB's results.

Hope to knock out a few more bulbs this weekend if my new clowns don't suck up all my free time :rolleyes:

I hope to have one my co-workers track down a few of the bulbs we can't get stateside on their trip next week. We shall see.

Cheers.

[BallaBooyeaH]

Keen for the results.

I am currently about to purchase MH for my 3 X 2 X 2. I was thinking of getting 150W but i am now leaning to the 250W.
Can anyone give me pro's and con's on the two types ?? I was planning on IceCap for the ballasts and if 250W I wanted the CV 10k's.

Thanks - your comment help my decision making process....

[bowfront]

I'm offering a little advise only because I've run both for extended periods over my tank. IMO 250w DE will allow you more alternatives, improve overall appearance of your setup, and best of all not add a great deal to initial cost. Ok downsides ... there are a couple... increased electric bill, and increased heat input into your tank. If you can handle both of those go for it.

[BallaBooyeaH]

Thanks Bowfront for your opion.

Just to get me more confused..... If I was to go with the 2 X 250W Icecap Balasts - what fittings do I need to get to be able to run the CV 10k bulbs? Also what would be the best to run with these on my Icecap 660? PC opr VHO or T5 ... This quest I have gone on for lighting is driving me crazy with options.

[Fade]

bump :)

[want2reef]

That stinks!

I thought we had some results.

[scot]

I just wanted to correct myself on that EYE MTD150AQUA-7S bulb. It's a 15K bulb, I just ordered two more set ups from my LFS who gets them from Sunlight Supply.

I think there's some reflector efficiency factor in my findings, simular to SE vs DE. I believe the 150w DE reflectors are more efficient at delivering the light to the corals where it counts.

[unsped]

im setting up a 40 breeder, you think 2 150w DE pfo pendants would be enough? dont really want to go to 250's

[aquariumclown]

Originally posted by unsped
im setting up a 40 breeder, you think 2 150w DE pfo pendants would be enough? dont really want to go to 250's
More than enough IMO. I'm using 2x150 for my 50gal 14k bulbs.

[unsped]

DE? didn't know they had 14k 150w de

[traveller7]

Originally posted by scot
I just wanted to correct myself on that EYE MTD150AQUA-7S bulb. It's a 15K bulb, I just ordered two more set ups from my LFS who gets them from Sunlight Supply.

I think there's some reflector efficiency factor in my findings, simular to SE vs DE. I believe the 150w DE reflectors are more efficient at delivering the light to the corals where it counts. To date, my numbers support that opinion.

[aquariumclown]

Originally posted by unsped
DE? didn't know they had 14k 150w de
This is a 14k bulb...

http://reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104284.html

[wayner1]

Can you mount these Geisseman DE Pendants inside a Wood Canopy?

[aquariumclown]

Originally posted by wayner1
Can you mount these Geisseman DE Pendants inside a Wood Canopy?
I don't see why not as long as you provide good ventilation.

[bzzbee2]

wow this has been some great reading!! I plan on upgrading to some ROIII's sometime this summer. the setup i have has the dual PFO 150 ballast, along with some generic, lighting bays. they are sheilded, but look like they were bought at HD. im kinda worried. but everything seems to be doing fine with the ushio 10k bulbs. however i need to replace soon, and as many others i am very eager for the results. i even saw some super cheap 150 de's on ebay. like 39.00 for 10k, 43.00 for 14k, and 49.00 for 20k. as much as i like a deal. i want quality. argh.. i was thinking of getting a couple of the 14k just to see the color. but only run aqualines in the tank.. but i will wait for results. just hope its not to long .

thanks for everythign your doing traveler....

[unsped]

Originally posted by aquariumclown
This is a 14k bulb...

http://reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104284.html

its certainly not a 50k bulb, but i dont know that i would call it a 14k bulb.

most 14k bulbs have alot of blue in them. i own a iwasaki 150w de 50k, and its more like a pink tinge. it also does very wierd things to zoo colors hehe.

http://www.isber.ucsb.edu/~brad/albums/album20/compare.sized.jpg

[triggerman71]

I am getting new bulbs on my Aquaspacelight it has 3 150 de bulbs and actinics in center. Not sure which ones are on there now but they are more on the white side. I plan on keeping lots of clams with mostly zoos and soft corals. What bulbs are recommend for this setup. I like it to have a blue tint, but I also want my clams and reef to be thriving. I was looking toward the iwaskis 50K, any users of this particular bulb notice growth good or bad? Any opinions are welcome as I am looking to order some next week.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by triggerman71
I am getting new bulbs on my Aquaspacelight it has 3 150 de bulbs and actinics in center. Not sure which ones are on there now but they are more on the white side. I plan on keeping lots of clams with mostly zoos and soft corals. What bulbs are recommend for this setup. I like it to have a blue tint, but I also want my clams and reef to be thriving. I was looking toward the iwaskis 50K, any users of this particular bulb notice growth good or bad? Any opinions are welcome as I am looking to order some next week. The bulbs that came with a few of my AB's were AB10K's, which are bright white when compared to most 10Ks I have tried.

I am currently running a 3x150 with 20K's on the ends and a 10K in the center. My clams prefer the 10K and show their discomfort pretty quickly when moved too far from the 10K's coverage. I ran the 20K's for 2 months over clams with a acclimation cycle and they did not look good until I popped a 10K over them again.

The pic that unsped posted above is fairly representative of a Ushio 20K, CV20K or XM20K compared to a Iwasaki 50K.

Color has been changing slightly with ballast changes.

I don't have an AB ballast in the testing.

Hope that helps.

[unsped]

my recommendations,

ab10k, ushio10k brightest but yellow

blv10k nice bright white

aquaconnect intense icy blue color


personally the blv10k and aq1400 are my current favourites a mix of them would be superb.

updated pic comparing my new ac1400's, ive got tons of other bulbs maybe i should put pics of them to. i also have ab10k, xm10k, xm20k, blv20k, coralvue20k, ushio 10k

http://www.isber.ucsb.edu/~brad/albums/album20/ac.sized.jpg

[saltyseaman]

Could you compare the intensity of the AC 14K to other lamps, unsped? I assume it is brighter than a 20K but not as bright as a 10K, but which is it closer to?

TIA

[unsped]

Originally posted by saltyseaman
Could you compare the intensity of the AC 14K to other lamps, unsped? I assume it is brighter than a 20K but not as bright as a 10K, but which is it closer to?

TIA

i would say its the most intense bulb over 10k i have tested. that being said i really want to get a blv10k (my friend has 250's and i am really impressed). I would say the ac1400 is closer to 10k in brightness than it is to 20k. granted this is what the eye sees and not technical.

the best thing about the ac1400 is the result is very clear unlike 20k bulbs that can look very murky almost like the water is blue.

[unsped]

double post

[saltyseaman]

Thanx Unsped :thumbsup:

Scott, will you be testing these?

[aquariumclown]

Unsped,

What ballast and pendant are you using? Also, I didn't know they made a ac1400 in 150w DE version. Who sells them, where can I get one?

Leo

[traveller7]

Originally posted by saltyseaman
Thanx Unsped :thumbsup:

Scott, will you be testing these? Don't have an aquaconnect in the lot, yet ;>)

fwiw: still tracking a giesmann ballast, aromat ballast, a sylvania 10K, as well.

fwiw2: I have lots of bulbs that come in boxes with different names but are obviously the "same". Interesting to see the variance between lots.

[triggerman71]

I appreciate the help Upsped and Traveller, from the pic's posted the Iwaskis seem to bring out the color more in all the inverts. The ac1400 seems too blue and looks like everything in the tank is blue. Oh, by the way I have the magnetic ballasts on my aqua fixture if that makes any difference. Are the pic's posted with magnetic or electronic ballasts? Upsed?

[triggerman71]

I ment to say that it seems to bring out the color in the corals more. The Iwaskis.

[unsped]

ive got to say just the opposite.

with the iwasaki absolutely nothing flouresces, zoos look drab, and nothing really stands out. the ac1400's are the opposite make corals flouresce even more than 20k. the ac1400's are a bit less blue in person and actually very nice, whenever i walk by the tank i think "damn those are great bulbs" (this coming from a guy who has bought 10+ bulbs trying to find the right one).

also my bulbs are brand new, as they burn in they will whiten up a bit.

im not a 10k hater, but i just really dont like the 50k bulbs ... i really like the ac1400's and blv10k almost equally. the ac1400 really is more of an iceblue and very appealing, i myself dont care for straight 20k bulbs because of the blue. if you dont like the blue get a blv10k which is a brilliant white. i just wouldn't go iwasaki.

if you want to go iwasaki PM me and ill sell you my bulb for reasonably cheap.

btw my ballast are pfo hqi magnetic.

[Seth]

hi unsped, nice pictures there

I agree with the 20k bulbs. I'm using the blv 20k and they are too blue and too dim.

I also have a arcadia 14k bulb but I can't compare it with anyone so I dunno how it compares.


Where do you buy your ac1400 or blv 10k bulbs?

[unsped]

i got my ac1400 from premium aquatics although the price seems to have gone up. blv10k can be purchased from reefgeek.com

its wierd, i purchased 2 'ushio' 20k bulbs, but both had different markings, one clearly a blv bulb. one was very very dim the other was brighter but dim .... that was really annoying.

[Seth]

Thanks
I have one more question.
Can you tell me which bulb is the brightest?

BLV10k or Ushio10k or AC1400 (i'm guessing the ac won't be the brightest)

[Seth]

and has anyone tried the coralvue 10k?

[aquariumclown]

Here's a picture of my tank with Iwasaki 50ks. There are 2 150w pendants in this tank. All run by SLS ballast and pendants.
http://it.gofuse.com/www/aquarium/aquarium_040326_640/part_2%20001.jpg
I do see that it's a redder than say your ac1400s, I do have quite a bit of reddish stuff, including a lot of pink coraline algae and orange monti caps. Before this I always thought the tank is very white. But I disagree with the florescence. You can see from my picture that the star polyps are the pretty bright green. I've yet to see them as bright in other tanks with other bulbs. Aside from that all other things also florescent, Green carpet anomone for example. I'm interested in how blue the ac1400s will look in my tank. Thanks for everyone's input.

Leo

[unsped]

coralvue supposidly has a huge red spike, and corals react very poorly to it. some people even say thier corals get burnt within a day, granted they could be using poor acclimation.

aquariumclown, ill have to take a pic of my gsp's under the ac1400 they look radioactive.

[aquariumclown]

Wow, just checked the price of those bulbs on PremiumAquatics, $94.95 is pretty steep. Up there with all the imports.

[unsped]

im pretty sure the bulbs are imported, check www.aquaconnect.de to get to their real site.

[Seth]

Here's my contribution:

1. BLV20k
http://www3.telus.net/kpwm/blueonly.jpg
2. Arcadia 14k
http://www3.telus.net/kpwm/whiteonly.jpg
3. Both Together
http://www3.telus.net/kpwm/bluewhite.jpg

[comeon22222]

seth and aquariumclown. What size are yoru tanks and how deep are they? What kind of growth/coloration do you get with te 14/20K bulbs?

[Seth]

Mine's only a 20 gallon tank, around 40cm high.

I dont like 20k 150w bulbs. Too dim = bad coloration for sps. They tend to go brown on the 20k side. Growth is slow too

14k is alright, ok color and ok growth.

I havn't used 10k bulbs before so I can't compare it.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by unsped
coralvue supposidly has a huge red spike, and corals react very poorly to it. some people even say thier corals get burnt within a day, granted they could be using poor acclimation.
I have not seen reports or had that personal experience in regard to the CV10K 150's, yet.

[aquariumclown]

Originally posted by comeon22222
seth and aquariumclown. What size are yoru tanks and how deep are they? What kind of growth/coloration do you get with te 14/20K bulbs?

50gal tank, 20" deep. I have good growth rates. Very good coloration when I lower my lights to 3-4 inches above the water. Currently it's about 6-7 inches above the water.

[unsped]

Originally posted by Seth
Mine's only a 20 gallon tank, around 40cm high.

I dont like 20k 150w bulbs. Too dim = bad coloration for sps. They tend to go brown on the 20k side. Growth is slow too

14k is alright, ok color and ok growth.

I havn't used 10k bulbs before so I can't compare it.

just remember bright "visually" and bright "spectrally" are 2 different things, the reason firetrucks are yellow and the reason 6500k bulbs look bright is because our eyes are tuned to seeing that particular spectrum. if our eyes were tuned to see blue we would probably think 20k bulbs were bright and 10k dim.

there are some reefkeeping articles stating that photosynthesis of zoox is not impeded by bulb color temp ... so ideas like coloration and growth might be more personal opinion that anything else. what causes coral pigmentation? thats a 50 year research experiment in itself, many people say different things.

just a thought. im not saying whats right or wrong, just saying that its not as clear cut as some people think.

[Seth]

I'm not saying that color temperature is a good measure but rather, I think the more "intense" the bulb is, the better colors the corals give (sps). Usually, 10 bulbs are more intense than 20k bulbs.

yes, 20k bulbs give off green and other flouresnce colors but it seems to not be "intense" enough therefore my sps have turned brown. (i'm talking about 150w bulbs)

I think there are 2 kinds of colors for sps.
The first is how the light from the bulbs gives a good color to the coral. This is "surface" color that if you take away the bulb and use another bulb, the colors are gone. Ex. Radiums 20ks give good "surface" colors.

The second is how intense the bulb is. The more intense, the better the color (usually). The coral itself will color up. Even if you put it under different lighting, the color will remain.

This is just my opinion what I have experience so far for sps corals.

[comeon22222]

do you guys think that 2 x 150's or a single 250 would have better pentration over the same 2'x2' area? at a depth of say 20-24" deep. What would give me better PAR

[traveller7]

Originally posted by comeon22222
do you guys think that 2 x 150's or a single 250 would have better pentration over the same 2'x2' area? at a depth of say 20-24" deep. What would give me better PAR Single 250 will pentetrate better.

[triggerman71]

From the pic aquariumclown posted it looks the opposite,everything seems to stand out.Then again things always are different in person. I wish we had some data on the par these bulbs put out (iwaski 50k and aqu1400) so I could make my choice. I have heared good things on both bulbs, and wanted to get some feedback before I order.

[moonpod]

Unsped:
I'm not sure if the BLV 10k 150w is the same as the 250w version. It may actually be much, more similar to if not the same as the Ushio 150w. Traveller will be able to answer that question soon. Also of note the BLV 20k 150w and 250w have no relationship to each other. They look nothing like each other.

Aquariumclown, the Aquaconnect is a German bulb

Seth, the CV 10k is MUCH bluer than a run of the mill 10k. I ran it for like a day and then lost my nerve and sold it.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by triggerman71
.....I wish we had some data on the par these bulbs put out (iwaski 50k and aqu1400) so I could make my choice.What ballast are you using?
What brand of UV shield?

[gucer]

Hello everybody!!!!!

Actually upgrading lights for my 100 gal tank.
Got 2 E-ballast and 2 DE 150 W CV 10000K. I will DIY the reflectors.
After reading all this thread not sure is good idea Using the CV, but at least need excellent UV protection from my reflectors shields. Initially was thinking on 3/16" tempered glass for the shield.
Any Ideas?

[traveller7]

If you are commited to the DIY then use the $10 Regent brand 500w Halogen for the housing. I don't think they are UV spec'd so head over to the local glass shop.

fwiw: I am using the Regent for some 70DE on Aromat ballasts.

[Seth]

I use the regent brand housing with a 150w 20k bulb.
I didn't change the glass because I think the glass included is UV

No harmful effects so far

[gucer]

thanks!!!!

[traveller7]

Originally posted by Seth
I use the regent brand housing with a 150w 20k bulb.
I didn't change the glass because I think the glass included is UV

No harmful effects so far Great, now I have another UV shield to test :mixed:

[comeon22222]

traveler, testing all the iffernt shields would be awesome but finsihing the testing and then adding in supplemental data afterward i think woudl be even better.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by comeon22222
traveler, testing all the iffernt shields would be awesome but finsihing the testing and then adding in supplemental data afterward i think woudl be even better. The shield comment was a joke, but the shields I have tested effected between -5%-18% of PAR.

Testing will reach a posting stage, but with new bulbs, ballasts, etc., it will never be done ;>)

[triggerman71]

I have the 6ft older aqua fixture with the german magnetic balasts. As for the reflectors they are the ones that came with it. The balasts are built into the fixture.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by traveller7
Single 250 will pentetrate better. Wow, I can spell :rolleyes:

[traveller7]

Originally posted by triggerman71
I have the 6ft older aqua fixture with the german magnetic balasts. As for the reflectors they are the ones that came with it. The balasts are built into the fixture. You've got PM.

[kmu]

If you want a good blue bulb to match your spacelight get the AB 150watt 20k bulb...

[comeon22222]

which shield only reduced PAR by 5%

[bzzbee2]

Im not sure on the whole UV thing. but i was told that if it was tempered, then its shielded. is that true?

[traveller7]

Originally posted by comeon22222
which shield only reduced PAR by 5% Have to wait a bit longer until I get through a wider color spectrum ;>)

I am not sure if performance between the two was related to the K rating, etc.

[Fade]

Any new news traveller?

[kingnitro1]

Would a single 150 be enough to light a tank 24"L X 12"W X 18"D ?
Thanks.
Daryl

[traveller7]

Originally posted by kingnitro1
Would a single 150 be enough to light a tank 24"L X 12"W X 18"D ?
Thanks.
Daryl IME it would be fine for most LPS, softies, shrooms, but you'll want an efficient reflector close to the water. I would likely stay with the 10K's and add a few little actinic 03's if you wanted high light loving crittes.

Regarding testing: Real Life is keeping me very busy at the moment.

[veng68]

Originally posted by traveller7
IME it would be fine for most LPS, softies, shrooms, but you'll want an efficient reflector close to the water. I would likely stay with the 10K's and add a few little actinic 03's if you wanted high light loving crittes.

Regarding testing: Real Life is keeping me very busy at the moment.

What do you consider close?

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

[traveller7]

Originally posted by veng68
What do you consider close?

Cheers,
Vic [veng68] Depends on the reflector coverage, but after testing some of these lower PAR bulbs I consider close 3".

Based on the distance formulas calculated decrease over distance, I figure it is better to be closer, deal with the heat, and decreased coverage :)

[spslover123]

Has anyone had any experiance with the new XDE's 10k? Wow cant wait for the results....

[Simbo18]

Just taging.... :D

:wildone:Luke:wildone:

[BallaBooyeaH]

Hi all - been hanging on for a while to this thread - Can't wait for the outcome.

But as I am new to MH let me let you know what I have done. I ordered 2 X 150 Icecap MH ballast and reflectors etc for the setup.
For the bulbs I got the 10k from Icecap - Just seemed easy to do. Will these be OK or should I get some Iwakawi's (learn 2 spell next week...) 10K's
I also got a 660 balast from Icecap and not sure what type of flouro's to add to this mix for the tank.

Love to hear from you experienced reefers

Tank will be for SPS and softies and some clams.

[traveller7]

The IceCap ballast and IceCap 10K combo is a good one compared to other ballasts and the IC10K bulb.

I don't have the Iwasaki 10K, I only have the 6.5K and the 50K.

Cheers.

[biodegraded]

Bringing back to the top.

[traveller7]

I have not forgotten about it either....jumped through and finished one of the ballast bulb combos so I could return the ballast to moonpod :)

Work has been, well work, but I am still chugging along.

I mod'ed the box a few weeks back to check a 70wt 10K Ushio against a 150 10K Ushio. Since I only have 3 different bulbs and a single 70wt ballast, don't be surprised if I post a thread with those results......

[veng68]

Sanjay's new article on 150 DE (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2004/review.htm)

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

[Medaka]

:sad1:

[sandsrfr]

bump.....

Any new news on this? Not sure if I missed the results somewhere else, or the analysis is still in the works?

Curious to see how the Iwaska faired....

Sands

[saltyseaman]

What's up Scott :confused:

[traveller7]

Real life salty :(

When I heard about Dr. Sanjay Joshi's add'l 150 test coming out I started testing the 70's for my breeder systems. fwiw: My measurements are inline to within single digit percentages of his, with one exception: The UV shield he is using seems to reduce PAR by a greater extent then either of mine :confused:

It appears I still have at least 5 and maybe 10 more bulbs that he has not tested and a few more ballast combos. So the work continues as time allows.

The directions at this point are to test what he does not have and keep monitoring the longterm out put of the bulbs to see what type of decline we are dealing with, for instance, I have a few Osrams, Ushio 10K, and IC 10K's that well into the years of use stages.

Don't be surprised when the 70wt DE results pop up first. When there is only 3 lamps and 2 ballasts to play with, you can imagine the testing went fast.

[Sloth]

Hey just stopping by to say thanks for doing this traveller7. I know everybody's getting impatient, but we all appreciate it!

[kmu]

Who sells 70 HQI pendants or ballasts and bulbs?might be interesting to have a set up with a 70watt HQI 20k for dawn and dusk and a 70watt HQI for daylight...

[traveller7]

I am using modified Regent halogen reflectors from Home Depot and a few gutted AB rails.

I currently have Aromat 5EUs (don't get the 3's anymore).
I also have an M85.

IceCap apparently has brand new 70wt and 150wt reflectors, Iwasaki bulbs, and IceCap ballasts.

Some nano folks use WPI's, but I have heard of some issues.

Ushio brands a nice 10K and I have a few BLV 20K 's that I am playing with.

I also have Catalina 70wt and Catalina 150wt bulbs.

fwiw: costs are about the same as 150's.

Hope that helps.

[unsped]

fyi, with pfo reflectors. there are 2 holes in the spring connectors. unbolt the bulb ends, move them to the closer holes... and bingo 70wt pendant.

then just buy the icecap -> PFO plug and wire in the aromat or whatever ballast.

http://www.eneat.com/albums/album02/IMG_0531.sized.jpg

[traveller7]

unsped,

Looks like you have an older style PFO.

fwiw: the adjustment you described works on the new style as well.

cheers.

[unsped]

i superimposed and scaled properly the blv 20k spectral graph versus the aq1400 graph...... i thought the results were very interesting.

RED = BLV 20K (also sold as ushio 20k)
WHITE = AQ1400

http://www.isber.ucsb.edu/~brad/albums/album29/aq1400.jpg

[ChrisRD]

Any new progress with the testing Scott?

[traveller7]

I am currently running the box in a different configuration to decide whether or not I should modify a set of lumenarcs to fit 400s or ditch them and go 250DE.

Lot of work to get the adjustments to be "equiv" so I'll be stuck here in that config for a bit until I get that decided.

fwiw: since it has taken so long I sent back a loaner ballast, traded new bulbs for a bunch of the older bulbs, and will be placing an order to settle the last bit. Can't have folks that sent stuff waiting on this painful timeline :(

[ChrisRD]

I'm sure the results will be worth the wait. Thanks Scott.

[Medaka]

=-_-= zzz

[kmu]

Just got my Aqua Medic Ocean Light 150watt pendant, with a 20k Bulb...

Will be changing from 300watt VHOs to 150watt HQI in a 20g reef tank...

Will post before and after pics...

[traveller7]

I was quite shocked at the difference in moving my 70 from VHO's to 150's. I am sure you'll like them.

[kmu]

Traveller7: how many hours and days should I take to aclimate to my new lighting?

I had 300watt VHO (2 URI white, 2 URI blue)

Now changing to

150 watts of 20k HQI...

THX in advance...

[traveller7]

Early conversion, I tried 5 hours a day with an XM20K and a CV20K side by side, they put quite a hurtin' on some of my critters. I would infer I should have raised the lights higher and possible reduced the exposure even further.

My VHO setup was on IC660 driving 2-daylight and 2-actinic white bulbs.

Lately I have been using a separate reflector and burning in over curing rock instead of over the tanks.

fwiw: Going from the VHO's to IceCap 10Ks on another tank was fine with the 5 hours.
fwiw2: currently running a 48" with XDE20K-IC10K-CV20K with the the 20K's on for 12 hours and the 10K on for the middle 6 hours. Consider this a long term test ;>)

Not a great response, but I hope it helps.