newbie needs some advice

[locass316]

Hi you guys I just joined and I absolutely love this site. So much info. I have had a FO tank for a while now and really want to start a reef someday. I have a 20 gallon tank with the eclipse 2 setup and was wondering if this was going to be enough in the lighting and filtering departments? TIA

[Rock Anemone]

locass316,
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

You chose one of the best spots on the web I can tell ya' that!:thumbsup:

The 18" bulb in the Eclipse 2 is only 15 watts I believe. Unfortunately this won't be enough lighting for a 20 gallon reef tank. You may find that certain polyps and lower light loving mushrooms will grow near the surface but you'd be much better off upgrading to PC's, VHO's, and or MH's. There are many PC retro-fit kits that you may be able to install inside the hood in place of the NO fixture that's already there.

For filtration, you'll want to remove the biowheel and only use the unit for extra flow and maybe running carbon. If I were you, I would just take the filtration unit out and get a nice hang on the back skimmer. Also, depending on the corals you plan to keep you'll want to add a powerhead for extra circulation.

Hope this helps!

Rock Anemone

[dattong]

welcome, glad to see one more reefer in san jose.
a few things to keep in mind if you plan to convert your FO tank to reef. Don't use any liverock that you have in it if you had treated your fish in that tank with copper, and clean everything at your best, the original light is not gonna be sufficent to keep corals thriving. If you wanna keep low light corals then pc or vho bulbs are good to buy. If you wanna keep clam or sps later then you should do it right at first time, buy Metal halide lighting. One 250w MH set should work wonderful for your tank size, and you can still use it in the future if you ever wanted to upgrade your tank.
Dat

[dragon_slayer]

with your lighting it really depends on what type of corals you want to keep 'someday'

your best filtering is DSB and LR along with a skimmer in a reef.

kc

[Rock Anemone]

Ditto with the above two posts. Make sure that you haven't used any treatments. Also, good quality live rock will act as a bioliogical filter. A DSB most likely won't work in a 20 gallon due to the small surface area. Generally a 30+ gallon is required for a DSB to function properly.

Rock Anemone:D

[locass316]

thanks for all the quick replies guys. So do you think I am better off just ditching my eclipse biowheel sytem setup and going with better equipemnt? any filter recomndations? how much am i looking to spend for a decent light and filtering setup. Do I need to get a protein skimmer? also do you guys know where is a good place for me to get all of this stuff? sorry for all the newb questions. Im a start using the search function from now on before I post but I just wanted some quick suggestions. Thanks

[Rock Anemone]

Here's a good article on Skimmers & Skimming:
http://home.mweb.co.za/jv/jv79/reef/skimmers2.html

Also, try doing a search here on RC for Protein Skimmers and you'll get a lot of advice. Many people have gone successfully without skimmers, especially in smaller tanks. Regular water changes will help. Keep in mind though that skimmers remove waste before it can turn into ammonia which helps keep your tank healthier.

I would go with a nice Aqua-C Remora Hang On Skimmer. They go around 150 dollars. www.HelloLights.com has a lot of good lighting supplies, I would check into them.

I would check out the RC Sponsors when purchasing equipment and such. Be sure to check the Buy/Sell/Trade forums here on RC. A lot of people sell perfectly usable equipment.

Rock Anemone:D

[dragon_slayer]

any filter recommendations?

again your best filtering is a DSB and LR with a skimmer. even on the small foot print of your tank a DSB does a great job because of its massive surface area within the sand. your LR will be doing most of the NO3 break down rather then the DSB but its still your best bet.

how much am I looking to spend for a decent light and filtering setup.

the filtering with DSB and LR can be very wide spread depending on the LR you get. I picked up some great Fiji LR from an admin here on RC for about $3/lb in most LFS you can pay up to about $15/lb depending on where you live.

as for lighting, you still did not mention what it is you intend to keep in the tank later on.

Do I need to get a protein skimmer?

IMHO yes, a skimmer is by far the best equipment for a 'newbie' starting out in marine tank keeping. it greatly helps keep water quality up which is the most important of all things. as Rock suggested, I'll second the Remora Pro as a good HOB type. if you have a sump or plan on getting one soon, then I recommend Euro-Reef skimmers. when it comes to skimmers, you get what you pay for.

where is a good place for me to get all of this stuff?

shopping around is the best way to find the best price after you decide what it is you really after. checking out the RC sponsors is a great help, being a member here some of them give a discount. hellolights IME have always been the best choice in lighting at the best price. skimmer I usually get via marinedepot.com

hth
kc

[BRETT FULFORD]

another newbie here - why do you guys recommend ditching the filter and biowheel?

[dragon_slayer]

LR and DSB are more efficient at the nitrogen cycle then filters.

filter pads/sponges only trap particles and then as they break down there only broke down to the point of NO3 and then you have a high amount of nitrate in the tank which is toxic to corals at even moderate levels. fish can stand very high nitrate as long as its not a sudden change in either direction.

your bio-wheel does the same thing. it quickly breaks down Amm to NO2 and NO2 to NO3, but the NO3 has to be broken down elsewhere and that is in your DSB or deep inside your LR. the DSB and LR cant keep up with the bio-wheel and you end up with high NO3 levels in your tank. (bio-wheels and wet/dry filters are to good for the first part of the nitrogen cycle so to say, they just lack a good 'finish')

a skimmer removes 'dirts' from your water before they have the chance to break down as well as removing other unwanted in the water.

so with adequate amounts of LR and DSB along with a good skimmer your tank will stay in a balance much better.

hope that explained it on a 'newbie' level for you. its hard to not get to technical about it.

kc

[Rock Anemone]

The reason why bio-wheels aren't needed is because they collect organics and waste which will produce nitrates. This is why you see bio-balls, bio-wheels, and other filter media commonly called "nitrate-factories". Bio-wheels are just a source for biological filtration. However, why have them when you have the best biological filtration you can have; live rock and a DSB. In most cases, people who have had high Nitrates have removed their bio-wheels and what not and have had a sudden decrease in Nitrates. However, when removing bio-balls, bio-wheels, and other filter media, you want to do it over the course of several weeks. Otherwise, you could end up with a small cycle on your hands by removing them all at once. It's suggested that when removing them you do regular water changes and run good quality carbon such as Chemi-Pure or Black Diamond.

Here's a good article which explains Nitrates: CHEMISTRY AND THE AQUARIUM by RANDY HOLMES-FARLEY (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm)

Rock Anemone:D

[BRETT FULFORD]

that explains it fine - i'm just ticked off now because i already had a filter without the bio wheel and my local retailer said that was no good - he recommended that i buy the biowheel filter, an talked me out of the ugf that i was planning on buyibg

[dattong]

just wanna make it clear a little bit, bio wheel should be fine if you have fish only tank. In fact bio balls or bio wheel are very efficient in term of denitrification which is desirable if you keep fish only. Since corals don't like high level of nitrate (ok if nitrate level is under 10 ppm) that's y most reefers recommend not to use bio balls, but it doesn't mean that bio balls are bad. they're simply a mean to help you break down uneatten food and waste product. If you have lots of live rocks, DSB and heavy bio load then I think bio balls can be used to help speed up the nitrogen cycle faster. So it's really depending on what's you're keeping.

So basically the nitrogen cycle is: waste product --->amonia ---> nitrite ---> nitrate ---> nitrogen gas ----> disfuse in the air.

LR and DSB alone can do this job nicely, the more you have the better. Bio balls/bio wheel only can help you break down to nitrate only.

Skimmer is a very nice equipment to help you pull out the waste product (which might or might not already disolved in water) before it even has a chance to break down.

Hope this helps

Dat