Declaring war on algae

[Flipturn88]

My tank has been set up since the end of July. I got my live rock and all other supplies from an established tank, but since then I have had a huge bloom of hair alage, and red slime is beginning to form also. When I do a water change (every two weeks), I try to clean it as best as possible, but it has gotten out of control and I need some advice on tackling it once and for all.

I shortened my photoperiod from 14 to 12 hours, and I'll do more if it will not hurt my anemone or corals at all (candy coral and some polyps).

I also only use RO/DI water and/or a tap water filter for my topoffs. I have numerous snails and some hermit crabs and they do occasionally clean out some spots, but its not enough to make a big impact.

I have a magnum canister filter thats output is connected to a pvc pipe that runs along the bottom of the tank with holes drilled in it for a distributed water flow. I also have a bakpak skimmer and an aquaclear for additional flow. It's wierd because the hair alage seems to grow the most in areas where it can gets the most flow...?

I bought my lighting brand new. It is two 1000k PC bulbs; one blue and one normal.

That is most of the background information I know to give. I need some more advice on combating this problem, because I do not want it to continue. Thanks in advance for the help.

~Kayla

[aquaman67]

Is there anything in the magnum?

Have you ever tested phosphate and silicate? Salifert makes good test kits for these. It sounds like you have excess nutrients.

Are you over feeding? And what are you feeding?

Try cutting back and see if that helps.

Also, Kayla, it takes about a year before a tank will settle down. What you are going through is normal, except maybe the hair algae.

You can pull by hand as much as possible.

You might want to start researching a 'fuge to grow macro algae.

[Flipturn88]

Thanks for all the tips aquaman

The magnum has a filter floss I rinse out whenever I do a water change or I replace once or twice every two months.

I have not tested for phosphates or silicates before, but they would probably both be high considering the circumstance in my tank. Is there anything I could do to help that?

I feed my clownfish only a couple pinches of regular flake food, and on the weekends I feed my anemone a defrosted chunk of shrimp. My shrimp being the cannabal that he is, often grabs an extra peice that I drop in for the clown on occasion.

How would a fuge help the algae situation in my tank? Sorry, I'm still a newbie so I'm not sure of everything possible yet.

Thanks again,
Kayla

[jstoehr]

Originally posted by Flipturn88
I also only use RO/DI water and/or a tap water filter for my topoffs.

This may be a problem. You should use only RO/DI water even for top offs.

[pmack]

Kayla, my reef tank is 3 years old and I have established a truce with both types of alge that you describe. First the up-side: that stuff,ugly as it is, really helps to purify the water especially keeping the Nitrate levels down. After all, it is a plant. I found two things really help. I added two fox face tangs to the tank. In 3 weeks they did what I couldn't do in several months of pulling and scraping and swearing. They are amazing alge eaters. The other thing that really works is simply turn your live rocks away from the light and the alge will die off, then, when it builds up on them turn them again. The red slime I remove with a razor scraper. When it accumulates on the bottom create an artificial tornado with a soup spoon...12 hrs. later..Gone. Keep the faith ...this too shall pass.

[Entropy]

I would get a quality skimmer. IMO nothing will make more of a difference than a kick butt skimmer. Mexican turbo snails also do a lot of good and algae eating fish (tangs, blennys, etc..) help, but I really think a good skimmer is the key to beating algae. Well and good quality top off water of course :D

[Flipturn88]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone.

I tested my phosphates and they were literally non-existent.

Do skimmers help to remove the excess nutrients the algae is feeding off of?

Also, the guy @ the LFS (I do consider them trustworthy and not wanting to rip me off for the most part) also mentioned the fox face rabbit fish. However, my tank is only 46 gallons, and so he might feel cramped if I put him in there...am I right in saying my tank is too small? I have a VERY small bioload...one maroon clown.

How would a pygmy angel, such as a flame angel work?

Thanks again,
Kayla

[Entropy]

Originally posted by Flipturn88
Do skimmers help to remove the excess nutrients the algae is feeding off of?

Besides cramming oxygen into your water, that is pretty much all they do (remove nutrients). You would not believe the yucky stuff that comes out of my skimmer. I clean it every 1-2 days and the smell is almost unbearable. Get yourself a good skimmer, and you will not be sorry!

[theearthling]

Originally posted by Flipturn88
Thanks for all of the advice everyone.

I tested my phosphates and they were literally non-existent.

Thanks again,
Kayla

That could be because the phosphates are trapped up in the algae. There are other threads on RC with a more thorough explanation, but in many cases, it's possible for algae to subsist on its own die-off.

[ATJ]

Herbivores are the best solution for algal problems. Chasing nutrients is a lost cause because there are many algae that will do just fine with undetectable nutrient levels.

There is a gross misconception in the hobby about the relationship between nutrients and algae. While it is true that more nutrients means more algae, it is only true to a point. Once an alga is receiving enough nutrients adding more isn't going to make much difference. Many algae have very low K_s values, some less than 0.1 mg/L of nitrate.

The addition of a few different species of snails, a herbivorous sea urchin and a sea cucumber can make a huge difference.

[shilo_1]

I was also looking at the Dr Mac page (http://www.drmaccorals.com/sys-tmpl/invertsandcritters/ )
They say that Lettuce Nudibranch and the Hair Algae Eating Cowrie are good for ridding a tank of this pesty algae.

Hope this helps ! :)

[Maxxumless]

My bakpak’s have kept hair algae away for years – IMO the first steps are better feeding habits (no over feeding and live feed as much as possible), good cleanup crews, remove dead/dying/decaying animals quickly, good water flow (no dead spots), clean out filters at least once a week (especially foams). Personally, that is where I think where his excess nutrients are coming from, the floss in the magnum.

[Flipturn88]

Wow maybe changing out the filter floss more often is a good idea. I normally do it twice a month, so I'll try once a week and see if that helps. My skimmer does clean out a ton of junk so I think it is doing it's job sufficiently.

My LFS had a product designed to kill cyano algae...and it was "reef safe" supposedly. I didn't catch the name, so I'm not sure exactly what it was. Does anyone know if those type of products really work, or should I avoid buying it?

Also, would a foxface be too small for a 46 gallon tank, even if I kept him in there for a short period of time? Would a pygmy angel do a good job with algae control?

Thanks again,
Kayla

[Flipturn88]

Originally posted by ATJ

The addition of a few different species of snails, a herbivorous sea urchin and a sea cucumber can make a huge difference.

I have a crushed coral DSB, and so I'm not sure if they would do well with sifting through the sand, if that is where they predominately feed. I had a sand-sifting star for awhile, but I had to return him because he couldn't bury himself in the sand.

Thanks again

[pmack]

Be very careful with chemicals. I am interested to see what other suggestions come in on this as I have heard about that stuff elsewhere. There are more natural and enjoyable solutions which will not cost you a lot of $$$ and potential grief through species loss. Given the description of your tank critters I would bet that something will not appreciate an alge poison. Just a thought.

My fox face duo are about 3 or 4" long in a 125 g tank...reasonable bio load ...not heavy but approaching the /gal. limit. Not sure about the pygmy angel. Some angels are notorious coral eaters.

[ATJ]

If you care about your tank at all, don't add any chemicals to it, especially ones that are supposed to kill cyanobacteria. Cyanobacteria are bacteria and you risk wiping out beneficial bacteria (depending on the active ingredients).

When you say you have crushed coral, what's the approximate size of the grains? I have sugar grain sized and slightly larger sand in a couple of my tanks and the sea cucmbers do fantastically. In fact, in one tank I added one, it grew to nearly 2' long and split in half. I moved one half to another tank and the remaining half grew to 2' and split again.

[rgentry]

There is a product called SAT, which is suppose to control hair algea and be reef safe. I've used it a couple of times when I first saw some hair algea and it seemed to clear it up.

Also, I think if you can find a small foxface, it would do fine in your tank for quite some time.

[feedingfrenzy]

I would not add algea posion to my tank. I too have red slime and am trying to get rid of it, and I read somewhere that queen conches eat it so I was thinking of getting one

[Flipturn88]

Thanks for the advice on the chemicals. I certainly will not use anything potentially poisoning to my other critters, which was what I had originally suspected to be true.

The crushed coral is certainly a reasonable size...some particles are actually tiny seashells. If I had known the limitations for sand-sifting creatures with substrate of this size, I would not have used it. Do you think the cucumbers would still have a hard time?

I have hermit crabs and some snails that both do a good job of working on the algae, but not enough to keep it under control. I also have a queen conch who is very active and travels all throughout the tank, even on the walls, but I do not notice as thorough a cleaning from her as the snails and herms do. I think I will get some more of them, because currently I have about 20 snails at the most and 10 herms. I also may look into finding a small foxface for some tempoary help.

Thanks again for all of the help.

rgentry, I am interested in the product SAT, but I definatley would not want to take the risk if there was any. Do you have any more information on it? Thanks

[rgentry]

Flipturn88,

The product is called Marine S.A.T. It's made by TLC Aquarium and Pond Products. It claims to be 100% live bacterial formula, no chemicals. I'm you can find it on the web.

LOL

[hpmcbroom]

Hi FLIPTURN,

Do a search on refugiums . The theory behind having one is if

you grow macroalgae . It should consume nutrients in the

water and compete against the algae in the main tank . As the

macro algae grows the bad algae should diminish . You would

trim the macroalgae from time to time to get rid of extra

nutrients . I think that would do it . JMO and my 2 cents worth .

[HJimm]

Hello Parrothead!
I went thru all of this a couple of weeks ago. Did the SAT, put the pads in the WD, 2-1/4 water changes in 2 weeks... And I come home today and tha algae is gone!

HJ

[ATJ]

How does SAT know what is "good" algae and what is "bad" algae? Does it magically leave coralline algae and zooxanthellae completely untouched but takes out other algae? What about Caulerpa does it leave it or take it?

It sounds like truly wonderful stuff.

[Flipturn88]

Hmmm I am going to look into the SAT solution...

A refugium might not be a bad idea either...

HJimm:
put the pads in the WD

What does that mean?

Thanks again for all the advice,
Kayla

[Freed]

Originally posted by Flipturn88
Hmmm I am going to look into the SAT solution...

A refugium might not be a bad idea either...

HJimm:
put the pads in the WD

What does that mean?

Thanks again for all the advice,
Kayla

I think it means put the pads in the wet dry. Freed

[Agent Powder Tang]

I agree with jstoehr. Do not use tap water!

Also, try to cut back on lighting. Buy some Catalina water and do some water changes, once every two weeks. Clean your tank weekly so bad algae doesn't spread fast.

I did this for about 2 months and my algae problems went away. And I stoped using tap water completely of course! eeeeeeeeekkyuck!

Good luck!

[HJimm]

ATJ,

I don't know truthfully. But I can tell you that everything looks great. The pink, maroon and purple coraline has already started to regrow on the back wall of my tank. It was covered with green.

FT88,

And yes I did meant put the anti phospho pads in the WetDry before it filters down to the bioballs. But just like everyone told me it's a cycle and ofter the tank adjusted everything worked out.

I am still having a small problem with the thick algae mat that's growing on the sand but my tang seems to have developed an appitite for it so it's slowed considerably.


HJ

[Tersname]

Thanks for clearing up the WD anagram, I couldnt help but think of someone putting their pads in the washer and dryer.

[cwschoon]

Get a foxface for sure! great fish and will be fine in a 50 gal. It will do such a good job on algae, you will have to feed it flake and nori in no time.

[Flipturn88]

While I was away on vacation, I came back and my tank looks surprisingly better. SOME (but not nearly all)of the rocks are completely clean of the algae, and there is some coralline growth--in the skimmer...? I guess that's progress, so I am happy. Hopefully soon I will be able to get a Foxface to help out, and no more tap water filter!

Thanks again for the help,
Kayla

Oh, cwschoon, I see you live in Atlanta. What fish store (if any) do you normally go to? Just wondering. Thanks.

[jopop]

Try a cowrie. It actually leaves a trail of
"clean" live rock behind it.

John

[ATJ]

Most cowries are carnivores and I know of only two species of herbivorous cowries: Cypraea annulus (gold ringed cowrie) and C. moneta (money cowrie). The others feed on sponges and corals.

[jopop]

ATJ

Can you id this photo of my cowrie? He is gray-the brown color was from the flash. As you can see on the rock he is on he has been mowing the rocks pretty good, actually leaving a trail. He has not touched anything else yet (small ricordia a zoo). I am concerned about what you say about eating the corals. Thanks.

John

[obena]

I've been following this thread - great info! ATJ posed a very good question. At the moment I have a pair of blennies and only 1 tiny rock with leather corals which I can take out and put in a holding tank along with several calerpa covered rocks I'm going to take out of the main tank for use in my fuge. So even if the SAT killed off the calerpa in the main tank along with the hair algae, it'd be OK since I'm going to have a fuge with calerpa now. BUT my main question is WILL THIS SAT KILL MY CORALINE ALGAE? Obviously I don't want to kill it. I had tried a sea urchin for the algae, but it also cleaned the rock of coraline so I put it back in the ocean.

[HJimm]

I've used the SAT twice and the Coraline is fine. It did a great job on the green algue but the red slime is still there. I think I'm going to try the marycin. My LFS reef guy saiys he's used it many times on full reef tanks and no troubles. He has a tank maintenance business on the side. He's been at that for 15 years and is a former Sea World employee.

HJ

[pmack]

I am interested to see how it works out for you. Please post. I can cope with the green hair but that slime is annoying and nothing seems to want to eat it. Thanks.

[obena]

HJIMME - So far I've not had the red slime algae - can't imagine why since my tank has been all but neglected for several mo. But maybe the fact that I had so much calerpa used up the nutrients and kept the red slime away. Did you have any calerpa in your tank? Was wondering if the SAT would kill it? Where do I get the SAT?

[ATJ]

Originally posted by jopop
ATJ

Can you id this photo of my cowrie? He is gray-the brown color was from the flash.
John,

It is difficult to be certain from the photo, but it looks like it could be Cypraea onyx or C. talpa. What colour is the mantle? The mantle of C. talpa is black with white spots. The mantel of C. onyx is dark brown to black with lighter coloured patches. Unfortunately, none of my references list what these two species feed on, so I can't advise if they are safe or not.

[hairalgae]

Not to dig up a old thread, but does anyone know of where you can get this Marine SAT product online? I can't seem to find anything else on it. Thanks!

[HJimm]

Obena,

I decided not to use the Marycin. and used a product called Chemi-Clean by Boyd Enterprises. It's a 48 hour treatment. I did it twice (after a 25G water change inbetween) and all is well. No setbacks at all.

Hairy,
Here's a product called
Marine SST (http://ultraclear.com/prod.php?prod=12) (It looks like the same bottle).

HJ

[bshumake]

try a sea hare for algae clean up. these guys are the "Hoover" of algae eaters. i think they go 4 $20. their nudibranches BTW.

[Flipturn88]

I was told that nudibranches usually don't live very long, and they emit poison when they die...did I hear wrong?

Thanks,
Kayla

[kmk2307]

Flipturn88,

Some nudis are definately not suited for the home aquarium but many people have success with different specis of "sea hares." I have two Aplysia dactylomela (http://www.seaslugforum.net/aplydact.htm) which are supposd to be red algae feeders but they love hair algae. My greatest fear with them is that they will be injured by a powerhead intake. I have Maxi-Jet 1200 powerheads and one of my hares was stuck to one of them at one point. I freed him and he has been fine ever since. I am going to construct egg crate covers for the powerheads to keep the slugs from getting too close. As for the toxicity I am not sure whether or not I am wise having them in a small reef tank. In this article (http://www.seaslugforum.net/seahatac.htm), Bill Rudman states that he believes the 'inking' of sea hares is an excretory function that is triggerd when they are harmed. I e-mailed him and asked if he had ever seen a sea hare casually "ink" which would seem to be consistant with the excretory hypothesis. At any rate, the larger of my two sea hares "inked" in my 45 gallon reef tank during a water change when I removed him from the glass so I could put him down low (he was near the surface and he would have been above the water level once I drained water out of the tank). I panicked and quickly performed the change and ran a polyfilter. Nothing in the tank looked the least bit irritated but it was only exposed to the ink for about 10 minutes before I got the polyfilter on there. I am in no way saying that that shows sea hare ink is not (very) harmful but it didn't devistate my tank. If the ink is an excrement formed of algal secondary compounds it can't be "good" for the tank IMO.

Just my $.02,
Kevin

[ATJ]

In addition to what Kevin has said, it should be pointed out that sea hares are not nudibranchs, but both are considered sea slugs.

Sea hares are almost all herbivores and can be a great for a tank.

Most nudibranchs (characterised by their external gills - "nudibranch" means "naked gills") are carnivores and depending on the species will feed on sponges, bryozoans, ascidians and corals. Most species do not contain toxins, but some do, depending on their prey. The main reason they do so poorly in captivity as their specific prey requirements are not present. If you had the right prey items, you wouldn't want the nudibranch to be feeding on them.

Bill Rudmans's Sea Slug Forum (http://www.seaslugforum.net/welcome.htm) is an excellent source of information and great for identification of sea slugs. I worked with Bill when I was doing my Honours thesis and he is an extremely friendly and helpful guy.

[Flipturn88]

Thanks

So Sea Hares do contain toxins, but they aren't as devistating/deadly as others?

LOL I'm still trying to figure this one out.

[bshumake]

Oops. Sry bout the misinfo there. I thought they were all Nuds. Slugs and what-not. I have no exp with them myself but i researched them earlier this summer and was about to get one but got hindered by a mishap. All the indo i got on them said they were great to have and when they mow down the algae to a managable/nonexistant level either suplement their feeding or pass them along to a friend who has a tank. This way your Hare is getting to travel and help out at the same time.

[ATJ]

As I said, sea hares and nudibranchs are two different groups of sea slugs. Sea hares are members of Order Anaspidea and nudibranchs are members of Order Nudibranchia. There are also many species of sea slugs that are neither sea hares nor nudibranchs. Check out Sea Slug Forum for all the information you could ever want on these animals.

If you give the sea hare away, the algae will grow back. You need to keep herbivores in the tank to keep the algae at bay.