Should Religion and Politics be banned from the lounge?

[jimhobbs]

Good Morning!:)
Some concern has been raised recently concerning some of the spirited debates that have been of late...At one time, these two were banned from discussion due to such complaints...Should we re-establish the ban or continue like we are?

I personally am against a blanket ban of any topic; but am curious as to what your feelings are....I feel your pain

So,
I'm gonna take a poll to decide how to govern:D;)

hehe
just kidding, I hope you know me better:)

[reptilicus]

Well, despite the fact that free speech is valuable, this board does seem to turn into a Republican Party meeting sometimes. THere is a constant stream of people taking light-hearted attacks on Dubya straight to heart (it is for this reason I am not posting any further in violence: the facts or is G-Dub an idiot). During the election saga, I couldn't enter the lounge without some Republican having a whine about how much Al Gore is cheating in the election. I am not from America, I don't care about US politics, and I don't think that all people here can have a fair sy in the topic being discussed. As I say, I am not American, therefore not a REpublican or a Democrat or anything else. I merely notice that the democrats were not putting out any anti-Dubya posts, except in a light hearted manner. The Republicans on the other hand were putting out all this propaganda about how Bush really won the election and Gore is just cheating etc etc. Whether you're right or wrong, I don't care quite frankly. The point is there is some great threads on this board, yet many people choose not to reda them because of this "moral majority" posting here. Religion is the same, there are people here who are not Christian, and some of us who are even CATHOLICS!!!! and I think that Christianity in particular but all religion is just too much of an emotional topic for people to stay in control of what they are writing. Let's just give them a rest for a while aye, and see who comes back to the lounge for a quiet chat?
Regards,
Tom
Regards,
Tom

[hesaias]

Can we pick both? I dont think these topics are a prob, until the debate breaks standing forum rules. If that happens, or becomes a pattern, then Yes. If not, let the debate rage.:D

[signu459]

Hesaias- Dittos!!!!

Tom- if you are not American and neither a Dem or Rep then why are you so anti Rep?

[reefaddict]

Retilicus did not say he was anti republican...(although he might be) he was just noting that there is an overwhelming amount of republicans posting in the political posts... and that they are quick to attack.... in his opinion... :blown:

I guess this is a rich person's hobby, thus the overwhelming number of republicans on the boards.....

As far as the question this post is all about... if you object to certain subject matter, don't read it :)

[Joez]

Gee Tom, I'm not really sure where you stand.

You say you don't care, but you want to ban speech. They seem like opposing views.

I think there are actually few conservatives here, but that it rankles some to hear conservative talk.

[dc]

Let them argue! Personally they should know better-I just don't read them. I think your choice to close, when it becomes belligerant (where is that spellcheck?) is good tho. This is not America, it's a chat!

[Kat]

Here in the Cariboo, I'm happy to have found a computer and a refuge from the mosquitos and no-see-ums. Nasty things, those.

Anyhow, I find myself in full agreement with hesias. Allow people their right to freedom of speech and belief - unless they choose to violate the forum rules they agreed to respect when they first registered here at RC.

[johnny]

jim... i'm warnin ya.... if ya try to take away me guns u's gonna anger the reef god... and ya'lls know that aint no good for ya reef tanks :D

I'm all for freedom of speech IN THE LOUNGE... if someone don't like it... they aint got to read it.

Same goes for TV..... don't blame it for violence in children.... blame the parents that let them watch the power rangers and don't tell them guns aren't toys.

And don't worry... I'm not selective... I hate everyone :D

Nick

[Staceon]

You know I am all for these topics, heck I think I was the one that even brought them into the lounge.:) But Jim you may want to re-frame your question, tis a tad biased. Its like asking someone "are your for the right of a woman to make a choice about her body" or "are you for the slaughter of a unborn child?" Both questions are asking about the same issue, but which one would you answer? Just an opinion.

[nk57]

Well guys, I for one have no problem telling you that you've taken some of the religious and political conversations too far. I think there have been years that the majority of great policy has been instituted by Republicans and there have been great policies that were given birth by Democrats. No matter what, the benefit people from both parties.
I am not ashamed to say that I am a Democrat. I've worked for Democratic administrations and Republican administrations. All have had their highs and lows so I'm not out to bash anyone. As far as Dubya being an idiot... who knows... probably no better or worse than any one of us.
As far as foreign policy goes, the world watches him with bated breath, not because all other nations hate him or fear him but because of his inexperience in foreign policy. He'll learn, we all do.
Do I personally like his politics...no... but I have to reserve judgement its really too early in his term to form an opinion one way or another.

On the religion/abortion note; I am also not ashamed to say that I am Pro-Choice. Its not everyones choice but its mine. I may not agree with late term partial birth abortions but in the 21st century there is certainly a place for abortion. Once again it is a matter of choice and a highly personal one at that.

If you guys are looking for unmoderated discussions concerning either one of these topics where you can debate or flame away, you may want explore the alt. newgroups over at Usenet. Anything goes there.

Nancy King

[nk57]

Oh I forgot to mention... my husband is a Republican and I'm a Democrat. Lively dinner table conversations at our house.:uzi:

[Agu]

Having only recently become a moderator, I feel that I still have a perspective from both sides of the board.

Politics and religion are controversial issues everywhere. Conflict over these issues is a global phenomenon, it's not just restricted to our little slice of the internet.

Those that choose to participate in these types of discussions anywhere know full well the potential for bad feelings and subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) personal attacks. Knowing this, when one chooses to participate he/she best be willing to accept the possible outcome. "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen." This is a reefing board and no one is forced to come to the lounge to learn about reefing. That's a lot different than real life, where just clicking out your obnoxious and opinionated co-worker/relative/neighbor/etc to shut him up would be a welcome option :D.

As a moderator, I've learned that most of the time the best thing is to back off and allow cooler heads to prevail. The moderators here are really more on top of things than it may appear, but are hesitant to interfer when mature adults are having spirited discussion. When a discussion breaks down, it's not the moderators job to start pointing fingers, as there's usually plenty of blame to go around.

Bottom line, I believe in free speech, and I'm willing to live with the potential aggravation it might bring.

imo,

Agu

[DukeDog]

How about if you don't like the topic stay away. Were all grown ups well almost all of us:D Just my opinion.
Jeff

[Wolverine]

I agree that if you don't like the topic, don't read it. And I agree that they should be shut down once they start violating RC rules.

But overall I really value the conversations. Aside from the extra insight I get into other members, I think I get a lot of valuable information (and some crap), that's just good for my overall learning on a topic.

Dave

[O'Man]

I hope neither gets banned. I like seeing the variety of outlooks. It seems to me the moderators do a very good job keeping the heat under control. Thanks Guys. :cool:

[reptilicus]

Reefaddict hit the nail on the head there, I'm not saying I'm anti-this or pro that in terms of parties. Obviously I'm anti-guns etc, but that is an issue, not a party. I am just saying that, as Reefaddict says, there does seem to be an overwhelming number of Republican threads in the lounge. Now I know a lot of you personally through #reefcentral and whatnot, and I know that the number of Republicans and the number of Republican threads is disproportionate. Now if I see a thread like the ones that were appearing around election time with titles like "the truth according to Al Gore" or whatever, I don't read them. I can avoid those threads. But there have been cases when good threads have been "hijacked" by people promoting moral/political issues. Now I may have been responsible for such an incident in the recent "violence-the facts" thread. However, I did not expect such a backlash. I was poking a little bit of fun at someone, then I look back and then there is 500 threads posted telling me to prove my argument etc etc. I didn't create the thread "Is G-Dub an idiot" I just put in a few little words poking fun at him. Now this is the problem, too many people take these subjects too seriously. Most topics in the lounge you can have a bit of a joke with someone, politics and religion threads seem to evoke the opposite reaction. This fact, along with the fact that religion and politics hijack otherwise good threads, and then kill them off by having 500 posts on how Al Gore cheated in the election, all the while getting further and further away from the topic, is the problem. I do not mind people discussing these issues, but it just seems that we all get on each other's nerves a bit when they come up. As I said, I don't really care whether or not Bush or Gore cheated or was elected properly or whatever, I don't give a crap. I just think that we should stop otherwise good threads being turned into political or religious discussions. This goes for any side of the coin. I just mentioned Republicans because it seems they are the overwhelming majority to reply to political posts, and it is the same people who reply to republican posts who reply to all the other controversial posts, and seem to be overly defensive of their views. I just think everyone should chill out a bit more, and not take every little thing said in the lounge as a personal attack on someone or their views. Let's just all have a beer, sit down, and just chat about interesting things in which we can all have our say without fear of being court-martialled by a bunch of people with different views. That is all I mean.
Regards,
Tom

[DukeDog]

I agree I think we should keep religon and politics out of reef related topics. If you wish to debate about either start a topic here in the lounge. That way the ones who really want info and such about reef related things arent subject to reading unrelated reef discussions.
:) Jeff

[KASESQ]

I say these discussions continue, but in good taste and courtesy, not flames.

[Fishwife]

I say, "Let the derned right-wingers have their say!" hehe! Just kidding guys. As long as there are only flickers and no flames let people say what they will.

Heck, I'm a moderate Democrat - I'm pro-choice, pro-environment, and anti-gun-but I'm not rabid about any of this issues ('cept for maybe the guns and then only certain types of guns). But that doesn't mean I get bent out of shape by what other people think and say. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion and they are free to argue it. Believe me, you aren't gonna change the Fishwife's mind about anything - just ask Fishhub.

;)

[signu459]

My initial comments were not based totally on Tom comments in this thread, but ona collection of comments from this and other threads I have read.
----------

The nature of the beast almost demands passion. I am sure that there are some subjects that many people would not get terribly worked up about. But I really doubt that they ever make as a topic for a thread, for that exact reason. So what you get is a collection of "hot topics" which a good number of people are passionate about. Personally, I find it very refreshing that there are a lot of conservatives on RC, it makes me feel more at home. Especially when you are bombarded every day by the media with their agenda. After while of daily assults you start to question your core beliefs and wonder if in fact you are really wrong. Then you come to a place like this and you see that yes there are good number of people who not only agree with you but think like you as well. But make no mistake there are also a lot for herd core liberals on this board also.

The problem with writing over the internet it that there is no personallity. The similies do a ok job of expressing the message but they do not come close to expressing the texture and feeling intended by the author. Sometiimes people are joking or poking fun, and that is fine and almost needed in some of these topics. But for people who are passionante or just plain miss the joke, it is very easily taken the wrong way in this format. The other issue is that nearly every joke is bedded in some type of fact that the author beleives in, that is undeniable. Look for example at the W Bush stupid jokes, yeh they may be funny but the fact is the person saying it more than likely beleives that W is stupid. It is so bad that Bush himself is actually jokes about it in order to disarm people. But when I keep hearing this over and over, it really gets me worked up. I will be the very first to admit I am very passionate about politics, and have well developed core beliefs and principals. I also believe that I have a responsibility, to educate people and turn them on to my beleif. I also expect other people to feel the same complusion, not matter how thier beliefs line up with mine. After all this country is made up and run by it's people, and without passion for the issues it won't last for long. I have often told people who disagree with me politically that I respect them becuase they are passionate about thier beliefs. I would much rather this country be made up of all liberals who are passionate and well educted on the facts ( although if you are educated on the facts them more than likely you aren't liberal:p :p ) than people who are wishy washy and spineless. That is not to say that you can't develop or change your belief when new facts come out.

One other note on the internet. These discusions to me are VERY HEALTHY. Where else in the world can you get passionate and say everything ever wanted to say about a topic, and not have a major backlash?? Not to many places, try doing it at work and you risk ticking of your co-workers or worse your boss, maybe even loose you job. Try it at home or with family and you risk severing your family and ruining some of the most valuable relationships you have. You certainly can't go to the mall and start up a heated discussion with just any passer by. So where else to go but here on RC! This is the only place in the world that if you turn off you computer jerks like me disappear FOREVER, but you don't have to go that far. You can simply not come to the lounge, or not read threads with political or other sensative topics. Or now with the new softwear I think you can ignore selected people.

BTW the comment about "educated liberlas" above was a joke as indicated by the similies. But I would bet that some people might get a liitle offened by that statement. More than likely because as I stated before it is rooted in fact.

[aLittletank]

it doesn't really matter what my views are on all of the above subjects when it comes to whether or not to ban them from the RC Lounge

I do not think these topics should be banned from the Lounge

if some one cant separate the Lounge from other parts of RC and start spouting off about gun control in response to a thread in one of the other hundred thousand :p forums on RC then ban the small minded infidel!


these and other topics do bring a lot of debate ( is that a bad thing?) but they also bring a lot of Humor as well ( something I truly value in life and RC)

for instance http://www.members.home.net/darren0469/tank/bush.jpg

no mater which side of the fence you are on this should bring a chuckle to your day ... and if it doesn't then LIGHTEN UP and don't take yourself and everything else so seriously . :)

Allen

[Martyn]

If I don't like what i read in the lounge I learn't not to get envolved.
Makes interesting reading if you can control your feelings and not let it wind you up.

most of you are americans different culture and nothing like the my culture and a long way away from me so a lot of politics and rel you talk about means nothing to me :-)

also interesting to see others views and there idea's of what they think things are like in other cultures but they likely have not any experenced by living in these other cultures but only by reading about things there and have no idea of the realty.

Peace on earth one day
Martyn

[Kimanne]

I'm with everyone else who believes that if's too hot in the kitchen, then go out on the porch with the puppies... er, is that if the kitchen's too hot, go running with the big dogs... no seriously, let's run with the big dogs! We're adults and a lively debate is not only stimulating and our reef-given right, but fun to keep up with up! I'm not rich, but I am one of those conservative Republicans that don't believe in slaughtering babies, feel we should do all we can to protect our environment, and absolutely believe in the right to bear arms, unless you're a criminal, of course, and are going to harm some innocent folks... and I think we can debate directly without name calling and serious personal flames, and we can always remember to throw in a little humor! ~kim