Difference between Zeolites and Activated Carbon

[Fraggle Rock2]

Hi Randy,

I was recently reading bit about zeolites and their use as water softeners and for water purification. What I was wondering is whether there is any difference in the abilities of zeolites and activated carbon to 'purify' water.

Perhaps comparing 'zeolites' as a group is incorrect, as I know there are many different types and they each have their own properties.

Any info would be great!

Cheers,
Fraggle Rock

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Zeolites are not nearly as useful at removing organic materials from the water as is carbon. They are more suited for removing certain inorganic ions. Removing organic material is the primary purpose of carbon in a marine aquarium. So they are not really competiting technologies.

[seven ephors]

GAC is usually the best choice for chlorine removal, while zeolite is known for removal ammonia.

[WaterKeeper]

Fraggle

Zeolites work as ion exchange resins for inorganic compounds. They replace one molecule with another. A home softener replaces calcium and magnesium, hardness causing compounds, with sodium producing "soft water". Once the resin is filled with calcium and magnesium it is regenerated by running salt, sodium chloride, through it. This flushes out the calcium/ magnesium molecules and replenishes the sodium in the resin.
Some zeolites use hydrogen and hydroxide as the replacement ions. They remove both cations and anions. These we call DI resins.

Carbon, as Randy said, removes organic. In this case they are directly absorbed into the carbon without being replaced with another molecule. They are regenerated by heat.

[Fraggle Rock2]

Thanks for the info. What got me wondering about zeolites is that German "Zeovit" filter, which from my understanding the "main filter" is just a mixture of different zeolites.

Cheers.

[rspar]

why is it we dont use DE filters?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

DE?

[seven ephors]

I am confused.... zeolite is a mineral (rock/powder), while resin is a gummy liquid that you put on plastic beads to get more surface area. I never heard of zeolite as a IE resin..

[seven ephors]

OK, I just found that zeolite can be used as IE "resin." Something new everyday...

[rendeyxu]

some questions
how to regenerate acitived carbon. i just use for routine use, donn't demand super quality.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is usually not worthwhile for hobbyists to regenerate activated carbon (IMO).

Here's a thread on it:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=236477

[Boomer]

Randy

DE ?= Diatomaceous Earth, aka Diatom Powder

rspar

why is it we dont use DE filters?

1.It will plug upfast

2. It is made of silica

It filters down to 1 micron. You don't want this as a full-time filter but once a month is fine. It is an excellent filter for helping to clean up the aquarium efficiently. I used it for two decades, along with Powdered Activated Carbon. The two will really "Polish" the water.

Steve

You are right it is really not a resin but a DI filter media. The most common one by far is Clinoptilolite. This is what is sold in the fish trade as Ammonia Remover. It is also the same thing as the so called Nitrate sponges

http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/clinopti/clinopti.htm

[Cosmic]

Hiya Boomer :)

I have always been "told" that using the Zeolite ammonia removers are a definite no-no in a saltwater tank as it causes chemistry issues. Ever heard of any such thing? One such product is AMMO-Carb made by Aquarium Pharm. (I think).

Thoughts/opinions?

Cos

[Boomer]

Hi Cos :wavehand:

Are you lost :D

Zeolite ammonia removers are a definite no-no in a saltwater tank

Well, X-Nitrate, Nitrate Sponge, Pro_Ore and a few other are EXACTLY the same thing. The whitish stuff in Ammo-Carb is the Zeolite Clinoptilolite. X-Nitrate is also Clinoptilolite, as are the others. I can even tell you the mine where some of them get it from :D

[Cosmic]

So, you're telling me that this product CAN be used in a saltwater tank safely? Or to still do so at your own risk? How fast will they need replaced? 20 questions time!

Are you lost


I guess I DID manage a wrong turn somewhere :D
Still, it's not so bad around here (immediate here anyways :D).

[Boomer]

So, you're telling me that this product CAN be used in a saltwater tank safely?

Yes, but what would be the reasons ? As a DI for SW it would be exhausted in minutes. As a Nitrate remover is does much of nothing but in time acts kinda like LR, as a denitification media. So I see no use for it, more LR is better. I would, just for the heck of it, like to see a ICP of seawater before and after its use.

[WaterKeeper]

Originally posted by Boomer
I would, just for the heck of it, like to see a ICP of seawater before and after its use.

ICP of what Boom? Sodium levels?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

He probably means aluminum.

[WaterKeeper]

Ahh, thanks Randy. But you already have those data in your article on phosphate sponges.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For aluminum oxide, yes. I don't know what happens with a zeolite, but I assume that is the basis for the concern, especially when compared with the small benefit that is likely to be attained.

[seven ephors]

The Zeolite/resin thing still confused the hack out of me, but the main reason zeolite is not used in saltwater because (at least the rock type that I am more familiar with) it will exchange with K+ more readily than ammonia.

So a ICP of before and after of the zeolite-processed SW will show a decrease of K+.

[WaterKeeper]

seven ephors

Forgive me if I'm old, but are we now talking about the old "Greensand" exchange resins? In those early days of exchange technology potassium based recharge of resins was widely discussed. The economics of sodium, over potassium, exchange resin won out.

[seven ephors]

We both are old, but the fact that you mention the greensand IE makes you twice as old as I am. ;)

I was refering to the potassium ion in the sea water get the zeolite to be exhausted so quickly that not much ammonia processing can be done at all.

[simonh]

I don't know if any of this information is applicable to your discussion. But, a product (method) is available in Germany called Zeovit. It uses a mixtures of different zeolites.

Some data was published on the contents of that Zeolite after using in a tank (it doesnt seem there are any before true data):

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elars%2Dsebralla%2Ede%2Fma%5Fzeovit%2Ehtml

[ButterfyBoy]

As far as I know, the main reason people don't use zeolites in saltwater is because people in the hobby think of them primarily as an ammonia remover, as indicated by the brand names like ammo-carb, ammo-zorb, etc. Being an ion exchange material, it seems to me like it wouldn't work in salt water because the concentration of sodium ions is ALWAYS going to be vastly higher than that of the ammonium ions. Wouldn't this effectively render the resin inoperable? It's not going to load up on ammonium and dump sodium when sodium is so much more abundant. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Boomer]

Tom

ICP of what Boom? Sodium levels?

No of everything. I see Simon posted something similar to what I was questioning. As I already pionted out, it would be exhausted in know time. Zeolites are capable of removing a number of things from water, OK, FW :D

The Basics FAQ (http://www.zeolyst.com/html/faq.html#three)

http://www.science.uwaterloo.ca/~cchieh/cact/applychem/alsilicate.html

http://www.zeolife.co.uk/watertreatment.htm

http://www.geocities.com/hkazemian/jou.html

[Fraggle Rock2]

It appears to me that the German Zeovit product is trying to just colonize the zeolites with de-nitrifying bacteria & not really using the zeolites for ion exchange. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense.

Fraggle Rock

[Boomer]

just colonize the zeolites with de-nitrifying bacteria & not really using the zeolites for ion exchange. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense.

That is correct and as I had mentioned earlier in this post, that is the only thing it has ever been sold for, in regards to reef tanks

[WaterKeeper]

That's an awful sneaky way to throw in a pop quiz on aluminum silicates Boom. :D

[seven ephors]

ButterfyBoy, I heard that problem with Zeolite in saltwater is the K+, not Na+.

[Boomer]

That's an awful sneaky way to throw in a pop quiz on aluminum silicates Boom

Hi Tom :wavehand:

There will be an essay quiz tomorrow :D