Percula with bubble on chin

[melev]

Hi guys, I did a search, but didn't find a matching thread, even via the FAQ page. If I overlooked, I apologize.

I'm got a pair of 6 month old Tank Raised True Perculas, and the larger (female) of the two has a small bubble on her chin. According to an exerpt from Martin Moe's book, it is a fungus and a possible cure it do dab the spot with Iodine.

I did catch the fish, and carefully held her as I worked a q-tip covered with Lugol's to treat the spot. (I can't believe I was doing that!)

After a few minutes in the air during this process, I put it back in the specimen container. I've added a bit more water, in case the lugol's caused some type of OD to the clown in that small sample of water.

I noticed several people suggested freshwater dips, and even using Marycin 2, but where will I find this? And would it be the cure for this problem? I also saw a varied diet will help, and I feed all kinds of foods so that shouldn't be an issue.

I've had the clown pair for 3 weeks in my 55g which is a very healthy tank. This is the only fish with symptoms.

Here's the picture of it:

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/1003/fungus.jpg

[Clyde]

goatee ?

but serious note, hope the iodone works, I had a gold bar maroon, who had fungus, couldnt cure it.

[melev]

For now, the clownfish is all alone in a 10g tank. I figured it would be easier to catch and treat her if/when I get some advice.

Since I didn't have a hospital tank set up, I used 10g from the 55g, added a HOB filter and a heater. I put a piece of PVC in the tank for the clown to hide in, but she's stayed out in the open.

She swims around, rather lonely, and her mate looks as lonely in the display tank. I'd almost like to move the male over to be with her. :) She's eating well.

I could add a piece of LR to the tank if there is a reason to worry about a lack of cycling.....

[ATJ]

Marc,
It could be a bacterial infection and Saltwater Maracyn-Two (available from larger LFS with a marine section) would be of value. However, it may also be lymphocystis which is viral and as such there is no treatment.

See how the fish goes after the iodine treatment. If it doesn't pick up (and the water conditions are good in the hospital tank) try a course of SW Maracyn-Two. Feed the fish well as if it is lymphocystis the fish will have to fight the condition on its own.

Make sure the water conditions in the hospital tank stay as good as possible.

[melev]

Thanks Andrew, I'll have to keep an eye on it then.

Do we have any idea how this occurs in the first place? Is this caused by stress, if it is viral?

I know this is rather invasive, but it looks like something a person could virtually pluck off with tweezers. Or is that a bad idea? Will it rip off good tissue/scales attempting to do so?

I'll keep on top of the water quality in Sickbay. :D

[traveller7]

The 1" male in a pair of Gold Stripe Maroons has had a very similar condition on an off for the last 4 months. Female is 3" and I was attributing it to a bit of "pair" damage.

Condition comes and goes. No treatment so far, but I always have maracyn, maracyn-II, and maroxy on the shelf so I may give it a try. You should be able to find the Mardel medicines at any LFS.

Good luck.

[melev]

So why is it that Maracyn 2 for Saltwater is so darn expensive?! :(

The freshwater version was $5, the saltwater $20!!! I hate it when the cure is more expensive than the fish.

Anyway, I'm going to start treating today.

Hey, is there anything else I need to know, like should the tempertature of the hospital tank be lower than typical, or the salinity reduced (like when fighting ich)?

From what I read about this fungus, if it grows continually, it can actually cause an obstruction to the point where the clownfish can't eat and it will starve to death! That is why I'm taking this so seriously, so I can help it get better.

Luv my clowns. :)

[ATJ]

The Saltwater version of Maracyn-Two is double strength and includes vitamin B to stimulate appetite. I know that doesn't account for the 400% difference, but makes some difference. The rest of the difference is probably demand. I'm sure most places sell far more of the freshwater one.

Keep the water in the treatment tank as normal as possible. Normal temperature and normal salinity.

Noga (2000) says that lympocystis is often a reaction to stress or skin trauma and is self limiting. Given good water conditions and a stress free environment, the fish should recover.

[melev]

That is good news! Thanks for the encouragement.

I added the pill (2 tablets for 20g) to my 10g and it stated it would disolve but I guess I was expecting to see alka seltzer action, not a tiny melting effect. I may put a powerhead in there to move the water around to help it mix with the tank water better.

The instructions mentioned not to use it with fresh carbon, and the HOB filter had a brand new carbon insert, so I pulled it out for now.

[traveller7]

it does take quite awhile to disolve, not sure if that is factored into part of the treatment level or not, but IME it will finally disolve.

Good luck and I may be right behind you in the treatment.

[ATJ]

When I have used Maracyn-Two, I dissolve it a cup of tank water first, swill it around and then pour it into an area of good circulation.

[melev]

It did finally dissolve, and the tank water is a shade of green at this point.

Since I'm treating the water in a 10g tank, for the next 4 days, I'll be using a 1/2 tablet each afternoon. At five days, it says to change 25% of the water, and I'll add the filterpad back into the HOB filter.

The detritus in there now came from the 10g of used water from my 55g tank. Should I siphon it out immediately?

Never had to deal with hospitalization, as my fish are usually completely healthy, or on occasion die before I have time to react.

[ATJ]

Marc,
I wouldn't worry about the detritus. Leave the fish in peace. :D

[melev]

Okay, thanks. It did eat today, and swims around some, but unlike her normal home, she's been hiding in a piece of PVC I added for shelter.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by ATJ
However, it may also be lymphocystis which is viral and as such there is no treatment.

Getting into the game a little late here, but this is what I was thinking when I saw that picture. To me it just looks a little too pristine to be a full-blown bacterial or fungal infection.

That said, the Maracyn II can still be worth it as prophylaxis against a secondary bacterial infection.

I think Maracyn II has the 400% mark-up because it can say "saltwater" on the bottle. They know that people with saltwater tanks have much more expensive fish, and are going to be willing to pay a lot more to keep those fish alive.

Dave

[melev]

Thanks for chiming in, Dave. If it is Lymphocystis, where does it come from? These were tank raised clowns. Should I notify the guy I bought them from that something in his tanks is possibly contagious?

I've been wondering what I will do after the 5 day "soak" in Maracyn II..... Being that most animals are colorblind, I'm guessing my clown doesn't even know that she's swimming around in some seriously green water. :D Still eating, seems fine.

Is she contagious? If this thing doesn't go away, is it safe to assume she'll give it to the other clown (I bought a 'mated' pair 6 months old).

[Emerald]

Well Hi there Marc,
I really dont believe that your clown has lymphocystis. It usually presents itself as a cluster of bumps, not just one. It also is caused by environmental conditions and I know your tanks are in tip top shape.
That being said, I am thinking more along the lines of an odd fungus or possible parasite. Do not try to remove it, you may do more harm than good. Wait and see if the maracyn has any effect and I will do some checking in the meantime. Be sure to keep an eye on amm and trite levels since there is really no biofilter in that tank. Hope that helps a little for right now. :-)

Amanda

[TerryB]

That could be lymphocystis or an external parasite. I would try a formalin dip.
Terry B

[melev]

I better test the water today. I know the instructions say not to change the water during the 5 day treatment, but like you pointed out Amanda, if the Ammonia rises that would be another problem that this fish would have to endure.

Terry, if I do end up having to treat the fish with Formalin, is that another product I can get at the LFS?

(I feel like such a Newbie, since I've never had to deal with any type of disease with my fish!)

[Emerald]

Yes you can get Formalin at the LFS, it should be cheap too. You want the 37% solution. This is a saltwater bath so you can use some of the tank water for it, then you wont have to worry about PH adjustment. The dosage amount is 2.5 ml to 10 liters of SW. Try for 5-10 minutes and watch the fish the whole time. If he starts gasping for air you should remove him. Formalin will reduce the oxygen concentration of the water.
I would wait untill you are done with the maracyn treatment and he is in clean water, you dont want to mix things up if you dont have to. You can run fresh carbon in his tank when the treatment is done and that will pull out the meds. Good luck!

[TerryB]

Melev,
Follow this link.
http://216.168.47.67/cis-fishnet/seascope/99SS1601.htm
Terry B

[ATJ]

Terry,
Note that your article implies that "Turbellarian" is a genus when it is really a class of flatworms (Class Turbellaria).

[melev]

Okay, treatment is over, today is the end of Day 6, and I still can see a little bit of the bump on her chin.

Is the next step to buy Formalin for a dip treatment? What is the best option? She's still eating well, but kinda shy/lonely in Sickbay.

[TerryB]

ATJ,
Thanks for pointing that out, but people usually lump all the tubellarium worms together although it does contain more than one species. I am sure that you are going to have fun critiquing my series on Cryptocaryon irritans that will appear in the near future.
;)
Terry B

[Emerald]

So Marc, hows the fish doing? Have you done a formalin bath?

[melev]

No, I was just studying her in Sickbay, and I still see the dot, but it is smaller. It is very hard to see now, and I'm almost certain it is orange like the rest of the clownfish's chin.

I'll head up to the LFS to get some Formalin later this afternoon.

[TerryB]

If the lump is now taking on the coloration of the fish that would lead be to believe that it is lymphocystis. If the lesion is changing to the color of the fish and getting smaller then I would not use the formalin dip, because it sounds like the fish may be healing.
Terry B

[melev]

Terry, do you recommend that I just keep the clownfish in this tank until I simply can't see any more sign of the original problem then? What type of time frame would I be looking at? I bought the Formalin, but didn't use it last night.

[melev]

Here is the clownfish a few weeks later. As you can see, there is still a bump, but it is now the color of the fish. I had to go out of town, and put it back in the reef.

Sadly, the day I put it back in, its mate was gone, and it has been "roughing it" alone. I'll pick up a new friend for it in the near future, because the guy that raises them said he had another for me.

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/1103/clown_with_bump.jpg

[TerryB]

It very well could have been lymphocystis. In time the lesion may disapear.
Terry B

[melev]

Well Terry, I sure hope you are right.

[cotter4601]

I have this same issue. What can I do to fix it?

[melev]

I would advise you read page one and follow those suggestions. My clownfish completely recovered and is still in my reef tank to this day.

[cotter4601]

I have a similair issue. Did you ever do the formalin dip? What exactly is lymphocystis?

[cotter4601]

this fish is only about 1 week or so old from the LFS. Do you think it could just be stress related? I was reading that article about formaldayde and it said not to use the formalin on newer fish. So I might give it another week or so.

[melev]

Lymphocystis, from a hobbyist's POV is an infection. Typically it isn't lethal, but it can grow on the side of the fish's flesh like cotton. It can eventually just drop off the fish, like it did on my Copperband Butterfly that I had in quarantine for about 5 weeks.

The problem is if it grows around the mouth area. As it grows larger, it will block the fish from being able to catch any food. This happened with the fish mentioned in this thread. So I had to actually catch the fish, put it on the table, trim/pluck off the stuff, and apply a drop of Lugols to the area for a few seconds before putting it back in the water. It doesn't take long, but it is a little unnerving.

I don't know what causes it as I never did that much homework or perhaps I've simply forgotten since then. Your comment about it being a newer fish may refer to the age of the fish more than the purchase date. If you have a sick fish, you need to treat it rather than wait and hope it goes away.

[cotter4601]

So, all I have to do is get some of that lugols stuff and physically put it on the fish? I do this after I pick off the other stuff?

[cotter4601]

I looked at it today and it appears to be the same color as the fish. Not white. I swore it was a more greyish color before.