Clown looks a little weird...

[bennerkla]

My clown has been in my tank for about 2 weeks, and just today it looks like he's showing signs of "depression". The little clown is swimming all over having a great time, but the bigger one is just chilling and not really swimming anywhere, and his fins on his belly are tucked in, the 2 bottom fins. His mouth is opening and closing, and he appears to be breathing quickley. I'm going to feed him now, but how serious is this?

[bennerkla]

Uh oh, he didn't eat anything, I tried both morsels and brine shrimp, now he's just slowly swimming up and down in the corner of the tank, still with both belly fins tucked in...

My other clown is having a great time, eating like crazy

I'm really gettingn worried......

[hwynboy]

that is definitely not a good sign...does he show any web like substance on him? look REAL good. I would take him out of the tank and QT him for now and watch him closely. If he is breathing rapidly and slowed down a lot more than normal chances are he is sick. has he lost any color?

[bennerkla]

OMG thank you soo much for your reply. He hasn't lost any color at all, and every once in awhile he'll come up and pretend like he wants food, so I'll put some brine shrimp infront of his face, he puts it in his mouth and then spits it right back out. He is showing no visable types of web like substances. He just seems like he's depressed. He definatly isn't eating. I don't have a QT tank, becuase that was on my next weekend to do list. This is so frusterating.

[hwynboy]

well I would do a search on brookynella and Amyloo...in the clownfish, anemone section....lots of good information there. I battled Brookynella and I was 1 for 3. 2 of my best kept fish went away. QUICK. Brookynella kills in hours...but that is how mine started...then the web, then death. The second one I was more familiar with it and I was lucky I caught it in time with FW baths...and formalin dips. and a good QT tank. HTH...good luck keep us posted.

[bennerkla]

I did a search on brookynella and I couldn't find anything. This sure isn't looking good at all, I have no medicine, no QT, and no skill and experience. I added my cleanup crew yesterday, and I just tested for ammonia. It definatly showed some traces of ammonia. I just powered up my skimmer, along with my Aqua Clean 300 running carbon. I'm really worried, and I'm only 15 so I can't afford to throw away 30 dollar on a clownfish. I've started to just cross my fingers :(

[oceanarus]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1919303&sortby=&sortorder=

[bennerkla]

:(:( He's started to rub his body against the rock, I feel so bad for the lil guy :(:(:(

[hwynboy]

I would quick remove him from the tank or you will end up with a tank full of dead fish... QT him immediately....then go to the LFS and get some Formalin, or malachite Green. At least the QT would take him away from the other fish...when fish get sick its very contagious. Parasites look for another host to keep living. ......good luck and oceanarus has given you a LOT to read...go at it.

[bennerkla]

I know but where do I start without a QT? The only "tank" that i have right now is a 1.5 gallon plastic aquarium.

[fawkes027]

Hey bud! You need to be quick. A tank is tank..doesn't matter what it looks like. Just get him in something with heat and air and a place to hide. Rubbermaid containers work...anything. Start right away treating him. Get some formalin. Get it out of that tank before it takes your other fish down with it.

[oama]

OK first step...FW dip. A freshwater dip with the water adjusted to the same temp as your tank water and add some buffer (declorinate the water if you have "city" water). In a clear bowl/dish, add the FW and then the fish. Keep it in there for 1-2 minutes, then remove it. Look into the dip water...swirl it around to create a vortex. Do you see any whitish fine powder collecting in the center of the dish? Sorta like a pinch of talcum powder in water?? If you see this, you most likely have Amyloo. If you don't see anything, you have Brookynella. I am assuming, since you did not note any white dots on the fish about the size of salt grains, that it is not Crypto (often incorrectly referred to as Ich).

If it's Amyloo, treat with copper. If it's Brook, treat with Formalin. Go to your LFS ASAP to get the meds....

In the mean time... Prepare another bucket of FW for a "Bath" (much longer than 2 mins). Put the sick fish in it and CLOSELY watch it. Try to keep it in for up to 1 hr. If you see the fish keeling over, remove it ASAP. If you see it peering up at you with large puppydog eyes and saying to you "What are you doing to me???" then it is still OK. If the fins slow or stop moving, remove the fish.
Amyloo will drop off relatively quickly, but Brook will take longer. This FW bath will help drop off the "bugs" from your fish and relieve it somewhat until you can get the meds.

As for a Hosptal tank. You can get away with using a 5 gallon bucket. Just done water changes daily or as needed.

I would remove ALL fish from your main reef tank (assuming you have inverts or LR) and keep it fish free for 3-4 weeks atleast. This will break the bugs lifecycle in the main tank. But the removed fish should be treated also. So get another tank set up ASAP.

Best of Luck! and keep us informed!

[bennerkla]

This is what I did, seeing I did not have any medical treatments and VERY limited RO water...

I took a 18 gallon plastic container, filled it with about 8 gallons of RO water. I put in a header, a aqua clear 402 PH, and an Aqua Clear 300 filtration system. Also 1 piece of live rock and a hermit crab, just for kicks :)

I'm going to perform hyposaltinity. Can i put the Formalin in at the same time while performing hyposaltinity?

I hope this guy makes it through the night, he is really cute...:(

[oama]

Remove the hermit! The LR is OK, but it may not be LR by the end of the treatment.

Also...No wrong start!!!!

Read up on Hyposalinity. You DO NOT start off at a low salinity. You MUST gradualy drop the salinity. This will work for your other fish, but I would do a FW bath for up to 1 hr (if the fish is up to it) on the one very sick fish.

Maybe this thread should be moved to the disease section. I'll allert ATJ. He has some good links to Hyposalinity treatments.

BUT...did you do the FW dip? What did you find? Unless you have Crypto, Hypo will not be effective. If you have no meds (Formalin or copper) and the fish have either Amyloo or Brook, only a prolonged bath in FW will help your fish (15 min to 1 hr).

As to Hypo and Formalin...since formalin is the best treatment (IMO)(Although other experienced aquarist will tell you FW dips are OK too) for Brook, why use hypo in the first place? It will not cure brook!

If you have Amyloo, Hypo will not work. Use copper.

Until you get the proper meds, once you have determined what type of bug you have (any other details would help us help you), I would go with prolonged FW bath for the very sick fish.

Don't do too little, too late.

But from what you have written, the setup would work for a hospital tank in a pinch. Just be sure to have freshly made SW availible for water changes.

[hwynboy]

you should really get something else to put him into a formalin bath...formalin robs the oxygen in the water so you NEED some kind of air pumped into the bath...I used an old plastic container prolly no more than a gallon or so for the bath with the formalin....bathe him for one hour in there and WATCH IT CLOSELY. Hyposalinity is good for ich aka crypto but I dont think that is what you have based on your information. I dont think it will hurt much by doing it but It can and will stress the already sick fish more. good luck I feel for you and your perc. I have been there.

[ATJ]

As oama says, hyposalinity won't work with Amyloodinium or Brooklynella - it has only been shown to be effective for marine "Ich" (Cryptocaryon irritans).

You need to determine what the fish has and quickly before you can determine the appropriate medication.

If the fish looks like it has been sprinkled with salt, it will have marine "Ich" (Cryptocaryon).

If no salt like spots are visible, please do the freshwater dip test that oama suggests.

If you see something that looks like talcum power in the bath, it is almost certainly Amyloodinium otherwise it is likely to be Brooklynella.

Treatment

None of these treatments should be performed in a tank with invertebrates.

For Amyloodinium, copper is the most effective treatment. Get Seachem's Cupramine as this appears to be the safest form of copper. You will also need a copper test kit and you will need to test the copper concentration twice per day, at least for the first few days. Keep the copper concentration at around 0.2 mg/L for 14 days - even if the fish appear to be getting better. Remove all calcium carbonate objects (e.g. coral skeletons, live rock, coral sand, etc.) from the tank as these will absorb copper.

For Brooklynella, formalin is the best treatment. See: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=257591&highlight=formalin for instructions on using formalin.

For Cryptocaryon, hyposalinity is the best treatment, in my opinion. See: Hyposalinity (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html)

As the others have said, you need to work quickly.

[bennerkla]

I just came home today and I'm watching the fish closely. It seems like he is calm for a bit, almost too calm, with his belly fins tucked in still and staying in one spot. Then, out of nowhere, he goes crazy, trying to search for an exit from the tank, and swimming all over the place. He still will not eat. I haven't witnessed any signs of white on him, so should I still do the dip or should I just assume that it is brook? Also, with the freshwater dip, how should I heat the water? I only have 2 heaters; one is in the main tank and one is in the QT. I dont know how I'd do a freshwater dip. I don't have any formalin, and the closest LFS is 40 miles away. If I did go out and get it, could I put it right in the QT? Would I have to turn off the Aqua Clear 300? If I dont have to turn it off, could I use that filter in replacement of the airstone? Could I just take out all of the media? Do I put the formalin in freshwater or saltwater with the fish? The fish hasn't accepted food in 2 days.

I'm still new to this, and I have read every link you have gave me. I might not have picked up on everything, but I am trying my best. God bless all of you that are helping me save this perc's life.

[bennerkla]

PS. - If I can't get formalin, will a solid FW dip cure the fish?

[hwynboy]

no. you need the formalin...if your LFS doesnt stock it like mine didnt I ordered it nextday delivery from Marine Depot. look for formalin 3 or malachite green...good luck

[ATJ]

I posted a link to instructions on how to do the formalin bath. Do not put in in the quarantine tank, it needs to be administered in a bath.

Just so you don't have to click on one link to read, here it is here:
Originally posted by ATJ
Both Lom (1995) and Noga (2000) recommend formalin baths of between 0.125 and 167 mL/L for 30 to 60 minutes. The warmer your water, the less formalin you should use as formalin reduces the oxygen saturation of the water.

You need to match the water to the tank water as closely as possible and probably the best way is to take water from the tank and place it in a bucket, add the formalin. mix well and treat the fish. Replace the removed water with fresh seawater (artificial or natural depending on what you normally use). Add an airstone to the dip bucket to ensure good aeration (and then toss the airstone away). After the dip is completed, dilute the dip water with 4 times the volume of tap water and discard.

If you are going to use 1 gallon of water, you'll need to add around 60 mL of formalin to get the desired dosage.

Have a second bucket of tank water ready to transfer the fish to when the treatment is complete or the fish shows signs of stress. The second bucket allows you to "rinse" the fish before placing it back into the tank.

Don't use formalin if the water temperature is greater than 27°C (80°F).

If the fish appear to have trouble breathing - more so than before you started treatment, remove them.

How do you know you can't get formalin? Have you actually tried? Where did you try?

The freshwater dip that oama advises should be done with only a small amount of water in a clear deep dish or bowl. To heat the water you can either put the water into a plastic bag - like the ones you get fish from the LFS in - and float it in the tank. This will make the water the same temperature as the tank water. Alternatively, if the dish floats, you could float the fish with the water in it in the tank or sump.

[bennerkla]

I really don't think my fish has brook. His body looks fine with no excess mucus or white spots on fins. The only thing that he does have is white, stringy feces. Maybe it's just a bacteria infection? I've talked to someone who is also an expert in this field, and he said that I should definatly perform hyposaltinity. I hate mixed opinions. Comments to this are welsome.

God bless you all for helping me.

[ATJ]

Is the fish still breathing rapidly? The primary site of infection with Brooklynella is the gills. You may not see any other infected areas. Spots on the fins is not a sign of Brooklynella and so the absence of spots does not rule it out. In fact, if the fish is having difficulty breathing and there are no signs of spots or any change in the appearance of the skin, it is more suggestive of Brooklynella than anything else.

Hyposalinity is the appropriate treatment for Cryptocaryon. It won't help in the case of a bacterial infection. It won't help for internal parasites. It would only provide some temporary relief in the case of Brooklynella or Amyloodinium but would not stop the infection.

[bennerkla]

The fish is breathing very rapidy, about 2-3 times a second. But I heard that brook kills in hours, starting with heavy breathing, then having web like mucus on him, and then he dies. These are the things that I see wrong with my clownfish:

-Rapid breathing
-Loss of apitite (hasn't eaten in 2 days)
-Long, stringy, white feces
-Belly fins tucked
-Staying under the heater in the QT, and not moving much.

I'm really concerned about him not eating. He's gotten better though, today he put it in his mouth and spat it back out.

I wish I wasn't such a newb :(

[oama]

Ben
Ben
Ben!!!

Did you do the FW dip in the clear bowl and look at it afterwards??? What needs to be determined is what the fish has!! Re-read the above posts!

The fish may also have internal parasites, judging from the stringy poops. But....1. As ATJ stated, Hypo will do nothing for that. 2. I have Never experienced fish with internal/gut parasites that caused heavy breathing (but them I could be wrong on that. Any input, ATJ?) 3. Sometimes, with Brook, the sloughing off of the slime coat gets caught on the spine of the anal fin and can be confused with "stringy poop". 4. Yes Brook can kill fast, but this happens after a weak fish becomes susceptable in infection and acts as a culture media for a population explosion of the bug. Other fish then have their natural immune systems over taxed and fall prey to this bug. You poor fish may be fighting this bug with every thing it has. But without your help...

If you have Amyloo or Brook..treat it first. Then get some pepzine (alittle help people, what is it called? I know it is availible from most PetCo or PetSmarts) to treat the internal "bugs".

[ATJ]

Originally posted by bennerkla
-Rapid breathing

This indicates a gill parasite or low oxygen concentration in the water. As only one fish is showing signs it suggests a gill parasite is more likely, although larger fish need more oxygen and and so will be affected first. Common gill parasites are: Cryptocaryon (AKA marine "Ich"), Amyloodinium (AKA velvet) and Brooklynella (AKA clownfish disease).

-Loss of apitite (hasn't eaten in 2 days)

Could indicate a number of conditions, including Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium or Brooklynella.

-Long, stringy, white feces

Usually an indicator of internal parasites, but may be a side-effect of whatever the primary infection is.

-Belly fins tucked

Characteristic of a sick fish. Almost any condition could cause this.

-Staying under the heater in the QT, and not moving much.

What hiding places have you provided? Could it just be trying to hide because it is stressed.

Nothing you have described can rule out Brooklynella or Amyloodinium. I think you can pretty much rule out Cryptocaryon as you would almost certainly see white spots by now.

The most important thing is to determine why the fish is breathing rapidly. This is likely to kill it faster than anything. Once you determine what it is, use the appropriate treatment for that condition.

Once you have fixed that problem, then start worrying about the stringy faeces. <a href=http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/product/product6.htm target=Aquatronics>Aquatronics Pipzine</a> is the product for treating internal worms, although metrondiazole is probably better for the condition it has now - but only after you fix the breathing issue.

[bennerkla]

Oama, please understand that I am very new to this, and this all seems to blur together. My main goal was to get him out of my main tank ASAP, so I made a QT out of a pastic container. I have not done the freshwater dip yet, because I was unsure of whether to put the fish back directly into the saltwater or to ease his way up. Do I just take the fish out, put him in the small FW cup, then take him out and put him back in the QT? I think he has either brook or just bacteria infection. If I treat a fish with Formalin that doesn't have brook, will it hurt the fish? Thank you both so much for helping me, my clown does look better but he still looks sad.


I talked to an expert with fish, and he is swearing that hypo is the best way to treat this. He said that he's encountered this before, and to not do a FW bath. Please understand that with my inexperiance, I do not know where to turn. Today, my fish started to eat a morsel, then spit it back out. I'm going to try brine shrimp tomorrow. Thank you both so much again.

[oama]

Ben

We understand...It is just that myself and others feel that we are spinning our wheels here. Please Re-read all the posts. I would not tell you to take everything as gospel, but myself and others that have offered input do have some experience (often painful) to help you.

Do the FW dip, then place the fish in the makeshift hospital tank. Heck, in the past, I have even used rubbermaid trash cans as tanks! Anything that will hold water and is workable will do.

Look at the dip water. See Talc? then t you have Anyloo. Treat the H-tank w/ copper.
Don't see anything like Talc? Most likely Brook. Treat with formalin. If you can not get Formalin, try Quick Cure or some other product that has formalin.

As to Hypo to "treat this"...I am not even sure at this point what "this" is! But Hypo will Not cure internal parasites or bacteria (internal or external).

If your fish does have internal worms (cause of stringy poops), it will not kill it fast. However, Amyloo or Brook will. So treat those first!!! then get the pepzine (did I get that right?) for the internal worms.

I promise you that all of us here on RC only want your fish to survive this ordeal. We only wish you the best of luck.

[hwynboy]

Well spoken Oama by bruddah, not to mention that we have been through this before. I have battled Brook and lost when I was like you not really knowing what to do...then I understood the second go round with my perc's mate and went into action QUICK. I saved him and to this day he is still alive. but he had Brook...I am glad. Now I have 2 bottles of Formalin on hand, just in case and a bottle of pipzine for internal parasite. I have fought both diseases and my clown is alive to day, that ***** though bites me everytime I put my hand in its tank. =\.
Good Luck and I would not listen to whoeer tells you that hypo cures Brook, from my experience and readings that is not accurate.

[ATJ]

Originally posted by oama
then get the pepzine (did I get that right?) for the internal worms.
Pipzine (http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/product/product6.htm) by Aquatronics. Although, if it is not worms but flagellates, amoebae or bacterial, metrondiazole will probably be better as I said above.

[oama]

ATJ, Thanx for the clarification and sorry for the broad term of "worms". So Pipzine is also and AnitBiotic? I was not aware of this. We use something different for "de-worming" our fish. Thanx again.

[ATJ]

As far as I know, Pipzine in only a dewormer.

Metrondiazole has antibiotic properties as well as killing flagellates and amoebae. It is used for gastrointestinal problems in humans.

[bennerkla]

Okay, I did the FW dip. I don't see anything at all in the water, so I'm assuming it's brook. Wouldn't my fish show some more serious signs of sickness though? I'll pick up Formalin, Pipzine, and Metrondiazole this weekend. If the fish doesn't have brook, will it harm him if I try to give him formalin? I'm goign to pick it up anyway, just in case.

My fish STILL isn't eating, 3 days now, and this worries me the most. He used to go crazy over brine shrimp, now he doesn't accept it at all. He puts it in his mouth and spits it right back out. His poop is even longer and more "stringy" now; hopefully one of these treatments will work?

Thanks guys.

[jh775396]

just read through this thread and was wondering how things ended up.

[flaunt]

I just wanted to say that this post may have saved my clownfish's life. He used to host in the Xenia with my other clownfish, but one morning when the lights came on I saw him just laying in some zooanthids, which I'd never seen this particular clownfish do before. So I knew something was wrong. He had trouble swimming and appeared to be breathing heavily. I quarantined him for observation. I used a magnifying glass to examine him, but I saw no obvious injuries, torn fins, growths, parasites, inflamed gills... or anything else. I read this post not too much later. I wasn't sure what he had, so I did the FW dip as recommended but saw no "talc powder" looking stuff. I didn't want to assume he had Brook, but I figured there was a decent chance. I put some copper treatment as well as a full-spectrum anti-biotic in the q-tank, and went to get some formalin. They didn't have formalin, but thanks to oama's comment about quick-cure having it as an ingredient, I picked up a bottle of that. It has formalin as well as malachite green. So I also treated with that. It's been about 20 hours now since I began treatment, and although his fins and gills are moving still, he still can't swim very well and usually lays on the bottom and scoots around or lays on his side. He also isn't eating. I feel bad for him, but I'm hoping he's going to be OK. He looks like he's really trying to make it which I'm thankful for. He isn't making a miraculous recovery, but if he does survive, it'll be because I came across the great advice in this thread!

Thanks. :rollface:

[MarinaP]

You need to perform 100% water change ASAP. You are mixing too many meds. If you did not see any "talk" after FW dip, there is no need to use copper. You also do not need antibiotics at this time.

Formalin baths (but not constant exposure) might be necessary, but I am not sure at this time.

Clowns do sleep on their side quite often, so that should not have worried you too much.

[justagirl992]

I did a 20% change yesterday and stopped adding the anti-biotic. I also decided that it probably wasn't necessary. I kind of "freaked out" initially which is why I added the copper & anti-biotic right away. The clownfish still seems to be getting better, and I think that's mostly due to the quick cure. I'm going to stick with using that one medication during the day and running carbon at night to remove it from the water. I'll do several more 20% water changes over the next few days to help remove residual anti-biotic in the water.

As far as my initial concern about the fish, it wasn't just that it was sleeping on its side. I've observed my clownfish closely for a long time and knew something was "off" with this one.

[flaunt]

Oops... That last post was actually made by me, but I didn't realize my girlfriend was logged into the site so I ended up posting it under her name by accident :) Anyway, the last post is mine!

[flaunt]

I'm still concerned about the clownfish, although he is acting a lot better than he was. He had been scooting across the bottom of the tank rather than swimming, something like a Goby. I felt so bad for him. Now he can swim, but he swims along the side of the aquarium rather than upright like a normal fish. He hasn't eaten anything for about 4-5 days now that I've seen. I put his mate in the QT tank with him because she also was acting somewhat lethargic and not eating very well. She eats some, but her appetite is less than usual. It's kind of cute, she tries to stay close to him and swim like he swims but every once in awhile she will rush at him like "what the hell are you swimming like that for??" He tries to submit but it seems like he's having a hard time doing something, but I'm not sure what his deal is.

I stopped all treatment for now, since the clownfish started swimming. The only thing I'm concerned about now is getting him eating again. Is there anything I can do to entice him to eat? Both clowns pretty much ignore flake food now whereas they used to love it, but the female will still at cyclop-eeze. Any suggestions about how to get the male to eat again would be appreciated.

[ATJ]

Live food is usually the best thing for getting fish interested in feeding. Try some newly hatched brine shrimp (you can hatch them yourself in around 24 hours) or some adult brine shrimp. If it feeds on this, you can try other foods. Fresh or frozen foods will generally be better than flake foods.

[flaunt]

Good idea about hatching some brine shrimp... I set up my hatchery just a few minutes ago so we'll see what happens in a day or so after they hatch!

Thanks.

[flaunt]

I was just checking on the clownfish again and there's something really wrong with him again... He's swimming around rapidly on his side at the top of the water, sometimes bumping into the sides of the aquarium. Every once in awhile he shakes really hard... Does this mean he has some kind of internal infection? His gills are moving pretty rapidly and they *might* be slightly swollen-looking.

I'm afraid he isn't going to end up making it :(

I'm going to start treating again with the quickcure as I was before. I probably shouldn't have stopped so soon.

I read one of the sticky posts on this forum about Brook, and I was wondering if it might be benefecial or atleast not detrimental to do a 15 minute freshwater dip as someone suggested... They said to add 1/4 cup of baking soda to a gallon of water and put the fish in it.

[flaunt]

I decided to go ahead and try a fw dip... I didn't use baking soda though, I dosed some proper ph 8.2 in a gallon of RO water instead. I raised the temp to approximately that of the qt tank he's in. The fish FREAKED OUT when I dropped him in the fresh water. He swam around a bit then started flipping out and ended up leaping out of the bowl which I'm sure did him no good. I put him back in and he tensed up and layed on his side on the bottom. I was afraid I would kill him so I took him out after just over one minute! :eek: It didn't look like things were going well so I couldn't have imagined leaving him in there for 15 minutes! Am I doing something wrong or did I do the right thing by taking him out? I can't tell a huge difference in his behavior, although he isn't swimming at the top anymore. He's still swimming sideways though. Maybe I'll try another one tomorrow.

[ATJ]

Freshwater dips are not effective for Brooklynella. I think the poster in the sticky thread got confused with Amyloodinium for which freshwater baths are effective.

To effectively treat Brooklynella, you need to administer formalin baths (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/formalinbaths.html). Make sure you use fresh formalin.

[flaunt]

Thanks for the info and the link ATJ... Do I need to get straight formalin from somewhere (I haven't found it in any fish stores yet), or can I somehow use quick cure which contains formalin and malachite green? I started dosing the QT tank with quick cure again which calls for 1 drop per gallon.

[TerryB]

Although some like Scott Michaels believe hyposalinity cures just about everything including brooklynella. I haven’t seen any studies on this method. Personally, I prefer to stick with proven treatments or at least those with some scientific evidence behind them.
Whenever a clownfish is involved, especially a wild caught one, I suspect brooklynella. It is commonly called “Clownfish disease� for a good reason. Other species of fish can get it but clowns seem to get it more than any other species. With brooklynella usually only one or two fish appear to be sick. It can spread though to other fish, but it is not as contagious as Amyloodinium or ich IMO.

The stringy white feces frequently indicates an internal bacterial infection. Yes, internal parasites can cause this but I think I have seen more cases where I believe a bacterial infection was responsible. The best we can do here is to make an educated guess based on our own knowledge and the description and details that you give us.

You are not going to hurt the fish by treating it with hyposalinity, but I don’t think it will solve the problem either. Here is what I suggest that you do. I would begin a series of three formalin dips using one every third day. You should not use formaldehyde in a tank, but only in a dip. You can find a link to the article that I wrote about using formlin in ATJ's link. I would also treat the fish in a quarantine tank with either nirtofurazone or Maracyn-Two for a possible internal bacterial infection.

These infections can be caused by using tainted foods, including flake or freeze-dried. This is why all foods, except for live, should be stored in your freezer. Buy foods in portions that you will use up within 60 days. Old foods can grow bacteria that the fish eat. Let us know which antibiotic you will use so we can suggest the correct dose.

I doubt Amyloodinium is the culprit here since you would probably notice that all the fish are sick, scratching and breathing rapidly. It usually affects all the fish. I am not even convinced that the fish has a parasite at all, internal or external. The problem may come down to a simple bacterial infection.
Terry B

[flaunt]

Thanks a lot for that info Terry. I have had trouble locating formalin but tonight a LFS told me on the phone that they didn't have it for sale but would give me some to use since they have a jar. I thought that was pretty nice of them. I'm going to try to get it tomorrow and then I'll start the dips. I did read your article earlier, but I'll look at it again for the details of how to do the dips.

As for the anti-biotic, I have some Kanacyn, which says it contains 150mg of Water Soluble Kanamycin Sulfate and Sodium Chloride Activity. Could I use that? If not I'll pick up some Maracyn-two also.

I had no idea that you were supposed to store food in the freezer and use it all within 60 days. Thanks for the tip. I should probably get some new flake food since I'm sure I've had this bottle more than 2 months.

[ny_jets]

You need to match the water to the tank water as closely as possible and probably the best way is to take water from the tank and place it in a bucket, add the formalin. mix well and treat the fish. Replace the removed water with fresh seawater (artificial or natural depending on what you normally use). Add an airstone to the dip bucket to ensure good aeration (and then toss the airstone away). After the dip is completed, dilute the dip water with 4 times the volume of tap water and discard.

{"If you are going to use 1 gallon of water, you'll need to add around 60 mL of formalin to get the desired dosage."


60 ML to a gallon is that more or less then a 1:1 ratio ? About how many drops would be 60ml when preparing a Formalin Bath in one gallon of water? Very Helpful post
Thanks

[TerryB]

Flaunt,
Please do reread that article carefully before using formaldehyde. You need to be sure that your LFS does not give you some really old formalin. Be very wary of any white flakes in the bottle because they are extremely toxic to fish. Kanamycin would not be my first choice. Nitrofurazone (Furacyn) is a good choice. Spectogram is a combination of Nitrofurazone and Kanamycin that you can use. Maracyn-Two is also a good choice here.
Terry B

[flaunt]

Well I managed to find a store that carried formalin, so I decided to just buy a bottle of it so I would know it's fresh. I put 20 drops in a gallon of the QT water and aerated it for about an hour before putting the clownfish in. He seems to be handling it just fine and has been in over 30 minutes now. I also picked up some nitrofurazone and will be administering that to the QT tank as well. Should I follow the directions on the package, or just do a one time dose?

[flaunt]

Well, my clown isn't well but he doesn't appear worse. He swims around quite a bit but he's always at the surface swimming on his side. Does this indicate he might not be getting enough oxygen? With giving him formalin baths (every other day), at what point should I see improvement? I was planning on doing three of them like Terry's article said, and I've done one so far.

I took some pics to show what he looks like and how he swims. I know it looks like I took pics of a dead fish, but I swear he's alive! For now anyway... His tail (sorry, I don't know the proper name for it) appears slightly frayed/torn for the first time. I've still got nitrofurazone in the QT tank and I'm planning on repeating the formalin bath tomorrow. I've also been keeping a good supply of live baby brine in the tank in case he feels like eating, but so far I haven't seen him eat any. The other clown is loving it though.

[flaunt]

Another pic

[flaunt]

Another pic. The flash in this picture caused some white spots to appear on the fish, but they aren't there in real life. The first pic also had a big white splotch on his fin but that was because he was at the surface and splashed with his fin as I took the pic.

[flaunt]

Last pic. This is how he swims all the time. I would think he was dead or on the verge of death if he didn't move around so much! He swims all around the sides of the tank at the very top.

[TerryB]

Does the formalin say that it is 37%? Does it give a percentage? Did you make sure that you are using one gallon of water to 20 drops of formalin? Dip for 45 minutes at a time, but wait to dip every third day instead of every other day. Give the fish a total of 3 dips. Personally, I am not convinced the fish has brooklynella. I think it is more likely to be a bacterial infection, but this way both possibilities are covered. Is the other clown infected? If not, then I suspect a bacterial infection all the more.

It sounds like the fish is really struggling. The gills are probably damaged. Can you add an airstone? Reducing the salinity of the water will make respiration and osmoregulation easier for the fish. You don’t have to take the salinity all the way down to 14ppt but any reduction in the salinity can help.

I suggest using nitrofurazone using just one dose on the first day only of 30mg/gal. Leave the fish in the medicated water 3 to 5 days MAX. Then remove the nitrofurazone with water changes and/or carbon. It is preferable to make a water change when you finish with the antibiotic anyway. The tail fraying could indicate that the amount of formalin that you used was a bit too strong. Did you make sure that you had a full one gallon of water for the 20 drops of formalin? Did you put some aeration in the dip water? Did you make sure that the dip was not higher than 80F temperature? It probably wound not hurt to add some Zoe vitamin to the Qtank water.

Try to avoid using a net or exposing the fish to the air when you give it a dip. This is very stressful to an already weak fish. Catch and move the fish a plastic bag or specimen container. You can read more about this in an archived article in Reefkeeping magazine that I wrote called “No Nets Please!�
Terry B

[flaunt]

Yes, it says "Formalin (Formaldehyde - 37%)" It's made by Aquarium Products.

I used one full gallon of water and put 20 drops in it, aerated it for an hour, then put the fish in. I'll do it every 3 days instead of every other. The water temp. was around 75 degrees.

The other clown appears to be fine... He's very active and definitely doesn't stay at the surface. He eats too, which is something the sick fish hasn't done for awhile now. The other clown did act a little "strange" when I first turned the lights on today... He was swimming around frantically and I thought something was wrong with him at first. Maybe he's just sick of the QT.

So if it is a bacterial infection, the Nitrofurazone should take care of it? And it's possible for a fish to have such an infection with no external signs other than acting weird?

I don't have an airstone in the tank, but the power filter has a venturi valve that I opened which should help aerate the water. I'll also reduce the salinty a bit.

I used a plastic container to remove him from the QT for the bath, to the rinse water after the bath, and back to the QT. I didn't net him at all.

I'm not giving up!

[flaunt]

I just did another formalin dip today. I aerated the water for 2 hours this time, hoping to get rid of more of the alcohol in the solution so that it wouldn't burn the fish so much. I also made sure I left him in for exactly 45 minutes this time, since I think last time it was closer to an hour that he was in the dip. He seems to be ok. The past few days he's started swimming more at the mid and lower levels rather than just at the surface, so hopefully he's making a recovery. I still haven't seen him eat much if anything though. The nitrofurazone has been in for four days now but I'm going to filter it out in a few hours and probably dose it again in a few days unless there appears to be no reason to do so.

[flaunt]

I've been watching the sick clownfish some more and I started thinking he looks like he's having to learn to swim all over again. Starting several days ago he seems to be trying to swim around like a "normal" fish, but he's having a hard time of it. He kind of waves his whole body to propel himself along rather than just flicking his tail like the healthy clownfish does. He doesn't move too fast either. I watched him for awhile tonight and now I'm wondering if maybe he was blinded from either whatever infection he has/had or from the formalin baths? The reason I wonder is because he seems to bump into everything from the sides and bottom glass, to the heater, to the power filter intake tube... Maybe he just lost his equillibrium from swimming on his side for so long and will have to regain it, I don't know. I'm hoping this guy will "normalize" fairly soon.

[flaunt]

I really think he has become blind. :( The way he's acting now is very similar to this thread: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45141&highlight=blind+clownfish.

I'm afraid the formalin baths might have blinded him unless maybe there's a parasite causing it, but I don't see anything strange about his eyes other than being a bit lifeless (vague, I know).

I'm going to hold off on the 3rd formalin bath, I'm not convinced he needs another one anyway.

[flaunt]

Well I held off on the 3rd formalin bath, and did an 80% water change about a week ago. So far there are no recurring signs of whatever the clownfish had. However, he still acts blind. I followed some advice given on wetwebmedia.com about someone's blind clownfish which was to try feeding him in a specimin container. I started catching him in a tupperware bowl and putting a bunch of flake food in it so that he would be forced to run into it wherever he went. I've been doing that for about five days now and tonight I saw him eating. I suspect he's eaten before, but tonight was the first time I actually witnessed it. I'm very happy now knowing that he atleast won't starve to death (and hopefully he won't be permanently blind). The only thing odd about the clownfish now other than the blindness is a small whitish bump just below his lower lip. I don't know if that's something I need to worry about, but I'll be keeping an eye on it for changes. It might just be an injury from where he's bumped into so many rocks and things. Poor little guy. :(