yellow cup (pagoda) coral

[tbone28]

i have had my yellow cup coral about 2 weeks now. The polyps have yet to come out. I first had it in a moderate-high flow area high up on the rock. For the last week, it has been in a low-moderate flow area also high up on rock. I have 4 250w MH and 4x65w PC's. Any suggestions?

[blkwrxwgn]

I think pagoda's like more indirect light or not as strong of light. They are more of a mid tank type of coral if you want their polyps to come out. I don't think it will do anything wrong having it that close but I think they perfer to be a little deeper.

[basicreefer_conk]

I work at a LFS and we get lots of yellow scrolls. I have one that has full polyp extension and it is under 400 halides. I just think it takes them a long time to acclimate to thier conditions.

[MiddletonMark]

Hmmm, polyps out when you bought it?

I assume we're talking about the kind I posted a photo of? [below]

If so, it likes indirect light. I have mine about 9" horizontally away from my MH ... and about 14" down in the tank [the top] of my 175w MH 10K light. Any closer and it was distinctly unhappy, any further the same.

Seems to like moderate flow at best ... mine is near my frogspawn which cannot tolerate high/direct flow at all and often is a shag carpet of polyps.

I'd give it very mellow/indirect light for the meantime. Not shaded, but definitely not high light or very high flow.

What do you feed the tank? Mine responds to food, though turkey-baste feeding at it causes it to withdraw/`fear response'. Gotta turkey baste a little up-flow from it, but it really seems to like meaty foods.

What temp? Salinity? What else in the tank? Just want to check all those are in line too ... one can never tell.

Was it's polyps out when you got it? How long did the LFS have it? What lighting was it under there?

What size of tank with those 4 250's? That's a lot of light for this coral, IMO ... which might cause it unhappiness. Probably likes MH's to a degree, but nowhere near what a stony coral would, and with mine it seems to have a very narrow `happy zone' where it won't turn brown and won't withdraw. Not the easiest of corals, but lovely [and has kept it's color]

Good luck - post more tank specs, how you acclimated it, tank size, etc ... but I'd give it moderate light [esp as it's new!] and moderate flow as well. Watch for discoloration.

mm

[MiddletonMark]

One more thing ... how did you acclimate it to your lights?

With that much light, you want to very careful on introduction not to shock it with too much light. I'd always err on the `less light' side as you can always feed a little extra ... but there is such a thing as too much light - esp. for corals recently shipped/etc which have been traumatized in that process.

Forget what Borneman says about this coral in his book; but it's really instructive. Think it comes from lower down on reefs.

[blkwrxwgn]

Originally posted by basicreefer_conk
I work at a LFS and we get lots of yellow scrolls. I have one that has full polyp extension and it is under 400 halides. I just think it takes them a long time to acclimate to thier conditions.

Actually if you read up on them they do like to have indirect light or to be mid or even bottom of the tank. Do you have yours at the store as close as this guy has his to his lights??

[tbone28]

let's see. i have a 240g reef. mix of mainly lps/softies. a few sps. polyps not extended when i bought it. i would estimate that the pagoda is currently about 20" under the MH. acclimation included floating for 1 hour in sump (no light) and adding tank water a little at a time. introduction into tank was under PC's only...4x65W PC's. the color has not faded. There has been no change, either positive or negative. The LFS had it about a week when i bought it. My tank's temp 79-81 degrees. salinity 1.023-1.025.

[blkwrxwgn]

Did a great job of acclimating it. I would try moving it to a place that isn't so intense light wise. Worth a shot.

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by blkwrxwgn
Actually if you read up on them they do like to have indirect light or to be mid or even bottom of the tank. Do you have yours at the store as close as this guy has his to his lights??

I think we're talking about different corals here. All Turbinaria genus ... but the `scroll coral' is a more plate-like form, T. reniformis usually, with further apart polyps. More of the `pagoda' or `turban' varieties [T. peltata, T. patula] tend to have more closely spaced polyps, less of a flat or scrolling form. T. mesenterina is traditionally the `pagoda' ... comes from higher up on the reef.

As Borneman suggests [above taken from his `aquarium corals book', great book!] ... suggests that the polyp extension is a good overall water quality monitor. I certainly found that in mine ... when things are booming, it's like a carpet of polyps. When not, I might not see polyps for a few days.

--

Do you have a pic of it? What would you call it's overall shape ... platelike, scrolling, upright, ridged? How close together are the polyps?

When I asked Borneman about mine, he said that nailing a species is pretty hard on these guys. So you have to judge somewhat by how it acts where to go - not what I like to do with new corals.

But he does state `most T. tolerate, even prefer, lower light levels'. So I'd do as you are [20" down] and don't put it directly under the MH [I found mine to almost have a specific horizontal-from-under-MH distance that it preferred].

If it is flat or whorling, make sure no debris settles on it. Can cause issues then.

Anyway, not a lot I can do more other than transcribe Eric's 2.5 pages on this species, and not sure if he'd like that. Go light on flow and light - try feeding some around it - show us a picture ... and good luck!

[MiddletonMark]

Yeah, sounds like you did good with acclimatization, IMO.

Sounds like a lovely tank, too!

[tbone28]

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
Yeah, sounds like you did good with acclimatization, IMO.

Sounds like a lovely tank, too!

thanks :) my yellow cup does not look like that posted in your picture. Sorry I can't take a picture either...believe it or not, I don't own a camera!...my yellow cup looks like a Directv satellite dish, except more concave. As far as moving to an area of less light, my yellow cup is currently mid-tank level, and not directly under the MH. I don't know where else to move it except for the bottom or in a cave somewhere. Any suggestions?

[justgettinstarted]

i have a blue bagoda cup... about 8" across...

when i got it it took about 1 week to get full polyl extension... mine sits in the middle of a sand valley under 440W of VHO...

my friend has one under 2x250MH and 330VHO and his was ~mid tank... fully open... he moved it into a shaded area and now it hasnt opened since... so i say go for full bottom light

[MiddletonMark]

So you're saying it's bowl shaped?

Probably not a pagoda cup, more like a `scrolling' cup which I seem to recall are from lower waters.

IMO, your next purchase should be Borneman's Aquarium Corals book. Lots of great info - and done in a way so that in highly varied corals like this you have an idea of their range ... and thus how to give the different species/forms the right place in your tank.

Good luck with it!

[tbone28]

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
So you're saying it's bowl shaped?

Probably not a pagoda cup, more like a `scrolling' cup which I seem to recall are from lower waters.

IMO, your next purchase should be Borneman's Aquarium Corals book. Lots of great info - and done in a way so that in highly varied corals like this you have an idea of their range ... and thus how to give the different species/forms the right place in your tank.

Good luck with it!

yes, more bowl shaped...actually, I do have that book, and couldn't find the reference...do you have the page number?

[justgettinstarted]

this is in general what mine looks like... but mine is a much nicer piece... with no dead spots... and full polyp coverage... same pale blue/purp color...

http://www.saltreef.com/images/pagodacup.jpg

http://www.anchofish.com/hardcorals/pagoda_10.jpg

[MiddletonMark]

Look up Turbinaria. [genus name]

It's right after Tubastrea aka `sun corals' which they're related to. I think toward the end of the whole coral section. Guessing in the 280's for page # [god, what a reef geek am I! almost have the page #'s for different corals memorized]

[tbone28]

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
Look up Turbinaria. [genus name]

It's right after Tubastrea aka `sun corals' which they're related to. I think toward the end of the whole coral section. Guessing in the 280's for page # [god, what a reef geek am I! almost have the page #'s for different corals memorized]

Thanks, I found it :) You're right, it's a Turbinaria frondens. The picture in the book does not have polyps extended...perhaps, this species doesn't extend it's polyps? The reference is on page 318.

[justgettinstarted]

if its related to a sun coral... then most likely its nonphotosynthetic... and thus... would have to extend polyps in order to eat

[MiddletonMark]

No, it is photosynthetic.

They're all in the family Dendrophyllidae, with three members of that family possessing zooxanthellae [Turbinaria one of them]. Of that family, only Tubastrea [sun] and Turbinaria [cup] corals are commonly seen in the hobby.

What great things good books tell us :)

[Dag]

Mark and others,

I just bought this specimen, which I believe is a turbinaria reniformis:

http://home.comcast.net/~albenjamin/Scroll_Coral_Small.jpg

Polyps were extended at LFS; not yet opened at home (only 6 hours).

Assuming I've identified this correctly, you're saying moderate flow/moderate light, right?

[surfy]

Dag- I have one just like yours. Mine has always liked low to med light and med flow.

[SkiDog]

Might try feeding it and see if you get a response, make sure you blow off any remaining food with a Turkey baster or something or your inverts will walk all over it. FWIW I kept mine 20 inches under 150W MV light, with intermittent medium current.

[Frick-n-Frags]

Well since we are posting Turbinaria pics, I'll link some I just posted in the T reniformis thread. These guys get baked under two 250w Iwasakis in a 55L right along with all the Acros, and their polyps are out 24/7 (the Iwasakis were off today though, it was too hot, so they just got actinics today)

<img src="http://www.rusynyk.com/coral/Tren1.JPG">
<img src="http://www.rusynyk.com/coral/Tren2.JPG">
<img src="http://www.rusynyk.com/coral/Tren3.JPG">
<img src="http://www.rusynyk.com/coral/Tren4.JPG">

[Dag]

Might try feeding it and see if you get a response,

What do you feed it?

[Frick-n-Frags]

these guys, along with the rest of the SPS tank get a mix of the two smallest sizes of GP's, powdered Omega-1 flake and powdered freeze dried tubifex worms about every other morning from 4am to about 7am. I kill the return to the tank to keep all the food in the tank, and the PH's swirl it around for me.

I leave it in for an hour after lights on to also feed all the zoos which are closed at night.