Banggai Cardinal Hardiness?????

[lajohnston]

I'm interested in adding a banggai cardinal to my 40 gal FOWLR. I was told by a local marine supplier that these fish are not very hardy. I've felt like this supplier is one of the best in my area and probably knows what he's talking about. In fact, I recently decided he would be the only one I would purchase from because I've been so impressed with his husbandry and livestock. I just don't want to give up on this fish because of one opinion. I'd appreciate hearing what others have to say about this fish!!

Thanks,
Laurie

[EdKruzel]

Hi Laurie,
What other occupants will share this tank? Cardinals are quite hardy, but not aggressive unless protecting young. Even then the aggression isn't that severe.

If you intend on keeping just a few gobies or blennies or other small and docile fish, then the Banggai is well suited for you.

Some species of dwarf angel, hawkfish, wrasse, or pseudochromis would be too much for a Banggai in a 40 gal or less.

Good Luck,
Ed

[ri]

In additions, be aware of their eating habits. They typically will not eat flake food. Most only feed on live/frozen meaty foods.

Also, keep in mind you cannot keep 2 adult male cardinals in the same tank. The dominant male fish will kill the other.

ri

[EdKruzel]

Good point ri,
If you intend on two, then it must be a mated pair.

Flake foods and brine shrimp are treats at best. Always feed a variety of foods high in HUFA.
Fresh seafoods or a good prepared frozen such as formula 1 & 2.

Take care,
Ed

[lajohnston]

Thanks for the info. I currently have a yellow watchman goby, 3 peppermint shrimp, and would like to add two false percula clowns and one royal gramma at appropriate time intervals. I'm feeding frozen marine cuisine, mysis and brine shrimp. I'm attempting to hatch live brine, but unsuccesful so far.

Any other thougths?

Thanks so much,
Laurie

[Wolverine]

I'm not so sure about advice from a supplier who says that bangaii cardinals aren't hardy.

Also, you have Premium in your area, and Inland Aquatics, if you find the time to go down to Terre Haute.

Dave

[forrest2906]

I recently added 2 bangaii to a 90 gallon tank that had 2 peppermint shrimp, 1 engineer goby and a few hermits. They hid for the most of a week in/uner a rack ledge. A week ago I found one of them under a dogpile of hermits and the shrimp. Sunday I found the other one in the same condition. Do they sleep on/near the bottom, or could the hermits have cornered them and hitched a ride untill they were tired? The goby is fine and eating well. I was feeding mysis and frozen brine as well as formula 1. Can not say I ever saw the cardinals eat. Did see them spit food out a ouple of times. I have checked water parms and all are well. nitite 0 ammonia 0 nitrate 10. Nitrate has been coming down. Going to do a 10 gallon water change this weekend.

[EdKruzel]

forrest2906,
Hermits and the shrimp don't hitch-hike along. They are scavengers that quickly take advantage of a free meal.

That meal happened to be the decaying corpse of your fish.

I have checked water parms and all are well. nitite 0 ammonia 0 nitrate 10. Nitrate has been coming down.

For the nitrate to drop it means it has been elevated and your tank wasn't ready to add any new guests.
There are so many parameters beyond the nitrogen cycle that a few simple tests are not enough for the blanket statement, "Everything is fine".

There are many that say in a FO environment that elevated nitrate is "acceptable". I disagree. There are levels that are tolerated well by many of the marine animals we keep, however with all the new filtration techniques and information out there, we have no reason to keep our tanks in anything but optimal condition.

When your tank ages and there are no nitrates readable on your test strip, then add more fish if the tank volume will permit.

Take care,
Ed

[Tarasco1]

I've heard from my dealer that banggai's aren't as hardy as they used to be as well. He has no explanation, just that people are having difficulty keeping them around.

I had a period about 8 months ago where I tried to keep them, but had very little success. My most aggressive fish at the time was a territorial royal gramma, but nothing else was stressful. My tank params were almost perfect (0 nitrates, trites, and ammonia), but I went through a sting of 3 of these guys before I gave up. The last one was specifically tank bred, and he still croaked in about a week. I gave up on them after that.

[joetbs]

FWIW, some people I've talked to said they've been coming in with bacterial infections. I tried a pair at Christmas time last year, and met the same fate. Instead of buying Bangaiis for my new tank, I opted for Apogons, which seem happy as can be. Captive bred are of course more hardy, and should always be bought over WC fish IMO.

joe

[lajohnston]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I'm going to give it a try. I think these fish are so interesting. Unfortunately, I can't get to Premium or Inland, but one LFS has some and does a decent job at providing quality livestock. It's unfortunate shipping ends up costing more than the fish, otherwise I'd go with some of the other "known" quality suppliers.

I'll keep you posted as to my experience.

Laurie

[Wolverine]

I thought premium was in Indy?

Anyway, with these other bangaii, are people having trouble with the wild-caught, or the tank-raised? I've never had trouble with either, but I know that many feel that overall the wild-caught aren't as bulletproof as the tank-raised.
That said, IMO, with the wild populations in the situation they're in, there's no good reason to by wild-caught when TR are so easily available.

Dave

[EdKruzel]

Dave,
There are actually population explosions of wild Banggai. What was once an isolated species is now all over the Sea of Japan and other Indo regions.

According to Scott, he spoke with several tran-shippers that considered it an "inconvenience" to travel so far to catch this highly demanded fish.
To make it easier and more economical, they dumped them in closer waters where they now thrive.

In this day of technology, man has become an intricate portion of the ecological chain of life. Right, wrong, or indifferent the tides have changed.

Take care my friend,
Ed

[Wolverine]

Ed, yeah, I know that they've been spread to other areas of the ocean (both intentionally and not), but, as I see it, at this point they are now a part of that local ecology, for good or ill. I personally still think it's preferable to buy tank-raised whenever possible, for a multitude of reasons.

When I was writing that statement about the situation of the wild populations, I more had in mind all of the fish populations, and not solely bangaii, it's just so applicable to them because, even if they are doing well now, we had them down to pretty low numbers, and it was a case that could be pinned on this hobby. It's also a case where it's so easy to get them tank-raised.

Dave

[rmendis]

Laurie: There has been a recent rash of parasite-infected wild-caught Banggais. These fish only last about a week before dying. (You can do a search through the RC threads on this.) Some have reported other fish in their tanks contracting the disease. I would highly recommend purchasing a tank-raised or captive-bred specimen. I would submit that paying the shipping costs to order from Inland Aquatics is worth it, if you can't find one in your LFS. It's better to pay double the price to know your fish is not going to die in a week.

All the best,

[lajohnston]

Rich, thanks for the tip. I did a search as you suggested, however I did not find any info. Unfortunatley, I just purchased a Banggai from a LFS and I suspect it's wild-caught, based simply on the price. What is this disease and what are the symptoms? So far he's eating very well and shows no out-ward signs of problems.

Thanks,
Laurie

[EdKruzel]

Dave I totally agree if there are tank raised species available to choose them.

I'm not sure they fair as well when introduced to possible parasites lingering with a wild caught tankmate, but they never had the pleasure of natural seawater, so they are better suited to our glass boxes of rocks.

I've recently heard that new arrivals of Sixline Wrasse are very delicate and not doing well.
Has anyone else come across this? They have always been my "bulletproof species".

Ed

[FMarini]

Ed and Dave:
feel free to check out my thread in the breeding forum on "banggais found n the lembeh starits"
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=249446

Apparently many wholesaler/collectors have dumped these fish into their local waters in hopes of having a local suply of these fish and apparently these fish do quite well, go figure.

As for hardiness of a banggais. they are shy and retiring at first however once they are comfortable they do well.
A recent article in TFH or FAMA cited a "plague or disease in the banggai population"
This is simply not true, if the author did the experiment he would have figured out that poor shipping/handling of these fish resulted in the outcome he observed.

Anyway if you have a quiet reef or community tank i highly recommend banggais

[EdKruzel]

Hey Frank,
Great photo.

I agree with the acclimation statement and believe it holds true for most docile species.

Take Care,
Ed

[rmendis]

Originally posted by lajohnston
Rich, thanks for the tip. I did a search as you suggested, however I did not find any info. Unfortunatley, I just purchased a Banggai from a LFS and I suspect it's wild-caught, based simply on the price. What is this disease and what are the symptoms? So far he's eating very well and shows no out-ward signs of problems.

Hi Laurie,

If your fish is eating and seems to be healthy, then everything should work out.

Here are a couple other threads for you to peruse:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220876&highlight=banggai
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222427&highlight=banggai

[LouieM]

I have a Banggai Cardnal and a Lawnmower Blenny that I just added to my 110 gallon. The Cardnal has never hid and is allways floating in the center of the tank. The first day he was spitting the food back out ( Maybe unfamiar with the taste) But now on day 4 he is eatting about 85% of the food that he tries. ( I made a huge goulash of stuff-- Fresh fish, shrimp, clams, fish roe, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, marine flake, some marine micro pellets, sea weed, some vitamins.. I then blend it up and froze it) I don't think he likes the Mysis Shrimp as that what it appears he spits back out. But when a big hunk of fish fell in he quickly made short work of it.

my lawnmower will not touch the sea weed that I rubberband, But he is fat and chowing down on the algea that I have.

[Bahamianme]

TO ED KRUZEL

yES, I PURCHASED A SIX-LINE WRASSE 2 MONTHS AGO. I HAD IT ONLY FOR 2 WEEKS BEFORE IT WENT BYE BYE. I THOUYGHT THEY WERE HARDIER THAN THAT. WOULD LIKE TO GET ANOTHER ONE NEXT MONTH...:eek2:

[Tarasco1]

I purchased my six-line about two months ago, and he's doing great, appears to be getting fatter.