Getting ticked off (kinda long)Please help

[cvrle1]

Hello all

I got a problem here and I haven't even started with the hard parts of my aquarium (getting water quality right, adding LS and LR...etc)

Problem is in mixing salt. This is second time I'm trying to get it to mix well but for some reason it just doesn't want to clear up. Water looks like I poured mud in it, and it is not clearing up. I was adding bit by bit but that didn't make any differece. I am mixing it in the aquarium (don't worry, no fish or anything except water) using 2 powerheads on each side and I added my skimmer today (I went in search of pre-mixed water but no luck)I told my story to one of the workers at the LFS I went to (L&J aquatics is the store) and guy told me that no one is selling pre-mixed water in Canada.I told him why I needed it and he told me that I will need a filter running in order wor it to clear up. I asked if skimmer will work, and he said yes. I added it today and so far no change in the water look. I used one of those tap water purifyers for my water as well.

Someone please help me out here cause I'm loosing faith in the really early stages of this great hobby.

If you need info, just tell me what it is and I'll provide it ASAP.

Thanks a lot.

[greenlincoln]

I will try to help you if I can. First, what size tank? Second, how much salt did you add and did you add it to 5 gallon buckets and then poured in tank? What kind of salt are you using? Some salts do not mix well. I had this problem with Instant Ocean (one of the lesser reasons I switched to Coralife). Also, if your water is really cold, which it probably is, you may be seeing some condensation on the glass making it appear more cloudy than it actually is. You will need turbulence in the tank to help mix it, and since your tank is empty, you can easily achieve this with strong powerheads. What type of filtration will you be using?

If you can answer these questions, I will try to help you further.

HTH

[JarekP]

What salt do you use? What kind of water (RO, RO/DI, tap)?

After mixing, water is always a little cloudy, and it clears out overnight when aerated. I use Reef Crystals, so I always get some undissolved calcium carbonate, however it settles down fast.

Jarek

[cvrle1]

I used both reef crystals and instant ocean salts. It seemed to me that reef crystals salt clouded tank even more than Instant ocean is doing right now.

Tank is 33 gallon glass. I was using the scale that was on the box for the salt. 1 cup per gallon. My salinity is still not high enough, so I need to add more of the salt. I wanted first to wait for this cloudy water to settle down and then see how my salinity is. I used tap water to which I added tap water purifier bought at the LFS and filled 27 gallons of water into the aquarium. I then used my heater to bring the temp up to 80F and it is constantly at that rate for last couple of days.

As for filtration I will be using skimmer with dsb and LR. Plan is for it to be reef aquarium.

Thanks for the reply.

[Bruno]

I mix Instant Ocean using 1 2/3 cups for 2 1/2 gallons. You are using to much salt. Your salinty check must be defective. Try using another one. Even with the extra salt, it should not be that cloudy. I have been using Instant Ocean for 7 years. Has the water had time to settle in the tank? It really shouldn't take long for the cloudiness to clear. Maybe 30 minutes. Try putting a sponge somewhere in the water flow to catch some of the extra salt. That should help it clear a little faster until it all disolves.

[cvrle1]

Bruno: I think I'm confused now. You said one thing and I heard the other. You asked me if salt had a chance to settle down. I heard and it also sais on the box that once you pour salt in, you should stir it vigourously. That is waht I did. As I said I also have 2 powerheads runing while I pour salt in. The way you said it, it sounded like I should just pour the salt and leave it be without stiring it or using powerheads or anything like that.

Maby this is the problem??

[pearl]

Both the bags and the buckets of Instant Ocean suggests 1/2 cup per gallon of water. If you are using 1 cup/gal., you probably just have way too much salt. Let it mix and aerate for a day or two. Check it. If it's too salty, siphon out some of the water from the tank and replace with fresh water. If it's not salty enough- simply add a bit more salt. Keep your powerheads running to help mix and aerate the water.

[Rick O]

If you mix it in the tank you will get a white film on the glass. It does clean off but it makes the tank appear cloudy.

Rick

[JarekP]

As I wrote above: Reef Crystals leaves undissolved CaCO₃. When you use too much salt you produce a lot of this stuff. Just let this to settle, and it will be OK. Clean the glass and bring salinity to normal.

BTW: I use 12 cups of salt per 19 gal of water, what gives 1.025 at 80F.

Jarek

[dc]

I vote on way too much salt!. I use 1/2c. per gal. and IO. and that usually is about right for me. There will be a limit of water that salt can even dissolve in. My salinity is .026 at 82 degrees. I'm guessing the kind of water also makes a difference. I would also get a new tester.

[Kimanne]

Well, the other thing you have to know is that you don't add all the salt at one time or you will get cloudiness. You add a little at a time, mix, add a little, mix... I have NEVER had cloudiness. I think it's much easier to add more salt, than RO/DI water that has to be the same temp. Plus, the skimmer won't help - there's no organics to pull out. A filter with carbon may help a little. Did you test the salinity with a hydrometer - and what was the number? If you don't have a hydrometer - get one. It's absolutely necessary for mixing salt water. You can't go by the salt bag directions. Also, you need test kits for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates so that you can monitor your cycle. If it were me, I would take out half the water, mix new salt water, and put it in the tank. Good luck! ~kim

[cvrle1]

thanks for the help. I guess I'll leave it for couple of days and see what happens. I do have a hydrometer and number I'm gettimg is app. 1.0120 so it is not up to 1.020 as it should be.

[Agu]

cvrle 1,

Based upon the amount of salt per gallon you've used it appears that the water is saturated and no more salt can dissolve. I'd suggest you take the hydrometer and a sample of the water to a LFS or an other marine enthusiasts home. If they have a refractometer available use it to determine accuracy and/or degree of error of your hydrometer. If they use hydrometers test your sample with both hydrometers, then test the LFS water with both hydrometers. If there is a big difference in results you've identified the problem.

If you have a swing arm hydrometer they're notoriously inaccurate to start with, and get even worse if they're not properly cleaned.(soak it in vinegar for a day and then test the water) The floating hydrometers are better, but you may have gotten one that was originally improperly calibrated.

If the hydrometer and sg test out then it's a water quality issue. It's easier to eliminate one variable at a time though.

Let us know how it turns out,

Agu

[cvrle1]

I just went to my aquarium and it seems that water is clearing up. I have a floating hydrometer and I know it's working correctly cause one of my friends used it before me for his aquarium and now I'm borrowing it from him untill I get my salinity right. I will get my own once I get everything running because I will need it for water changes. I checked the temp and it was at 80F and salinity did go up a bit from last night. It was at app 1.010 and now it is at 1.014

I will take the sample to the store for sure and see what they sugest to do.

Thanks once again for thew reply.

[cvrle1]

Just wanted to do a quick update. I took my hydrometer in today to one LFS and they tested it out and it showed that my was showing the lower number that in really was. When I came home I tested my salinity and it was right on. Problem still is that water is murky and if it is cleaning up, I can't see it. I tried to turn everything off and that didn't help either. I put my powerheads to the strongest current as well as medium and low, and that didn't help either. Heck, I even used a skimmer to see if it works, and guess what, it didn't work.

I think I see a patter here developing 8-)

Any sugestions?

[brad]

I am assuming you have the proper salt/water ratio now for keeping fish and your tank is still not clear.

Do you have any substrate?

Are you running any pumps?

Anything else in the tank?

Without any organics, anything suspended in the water won't settle out. I had cloudy water when I added just sand and water. 1 week leaving it sit, 3 days running a magnum, hardly saw a difference. First day I put the liverock in - everything cleared.

BTW I have used reef crystals and IO, and never had cloudy water.

[Agu]

cvrle,

The next two suspects are the salt and the water. Since you've used two types of salt it's probably the water, but try this anyway.

Pick up a gallon of distilled water and mix the salt in at the correct ratio. If it doesn't clear in a day or so you may have a bad salt mix. If it clears it's probably your water.

You used a tap water purifier, how fast did you run the water through it? Without adequate contact time the DI resin won't work, it has to be a very slow stream to be effective. Run a sample through the resin and take it to the local water softening place and ask them to check it for total dissolved solids (tds) Ideally they will get a zero reading, according to Aqua FX a reading below 30 ppm is OK. If you get a higher reading the twp isn't doing the job.

I had a similar problem and it turned out the local utility was adding polyphosphates to the water to keep minerals in suspension and prevent buildup on pipes. It also kept the salt mix in suspension :(. The only solution for me was to get a heavy duty RO/DI system and a tds meter to confirm the resin wasn't exhausted.


hth,

Agu

[cvrle1]

Brad: As I said, I have no subtrate or anything else in the tank except water, salt that is mixing for days, 2 powerheads on opposite sides, heater that is set on 80F, and a skimmer.


Agu: I was following the instructions on the box. It said that water flow should be 1 cup in 25-30 seconds. Mine was 1 cup in 32 seconds so it had 2 more seconds than it needed.
I do think that it is my water though becaue whenever I add distilled water I bought from a company that sells it, water seems to clear up. I add this water for top-off. Only problem is that pH of this water is 6.7 +- .3 (that's what it says on the bottle) I did get this little bottle with my purifier that will bring ph up, but I don't know if it's safe to use for salt water. Any ideas? If not, is there anything else I could buy so I can bring pH up?

Thanks again for the help.

[JarekP]

Don't worry with pH of distilled water. There are no buffers in distilled water, so pH can shift a lot easily even with some CO₂ dissolving from air, or any imbalances from production (my guess is that this "distilled" water is probably RO/DI). This small bottle you get with Tap Water Purifier is for freshwater aquaria. Simply fully DI water is too clean for freshwater tank and must be adjusted a little.

Best do what Agu proposed - prepare small batch of saltwater using only distilled water and see if it is cloudy too.

How fast your Tap Water Purifier is being used up? WHen I used mine without RO unit I had to change resin after 30gal - I have pretty hard water here in Ithaca.

Jarek

[cvrle1]

I got about 45 gallons out of it. I have to recharge it. Found a site that explains exactly how to do it so there is one way to save some $$$

I will do what agu sugested, but I just have to find a place whee I can bring my water sample to so it can be checked. I will also try mixing salt with distilled water as well and see what happens.

Thanks

[Agu]

Purified water has a pH of 7.00 only when it's in a vacuum, as soon as it hits air it absorbs co2 and the pH drops slightly. The salt corrects the pH to proper parameters without additional additives.

You may also want to call the local water utility and ask for a current copy of water test results.

Any place that sells water softening equipment should have a tds meter handy. While you're there a good salesman can probably tell you all about the local water if you mention you're interested in a softner or RO/DI unit ;).

Agu