Pair of angels possible?

[JTrigger]

I was just wondering if anyone has had experience with a pair of dwarf angels (i.e. flames, CBs, ..etc)... and this is outside of the context of the coral nipping issue :p

[ChasingPuck]

From what I've heard, if they are different colors you'll be okay, or if it's a 100+ tank. I know of one tank with a potters and a bicolor--no aggression. Of course, those are very different looking fish. I would not mix a potters and coral beauty or flame--just look too much alike.

[Laura D]

I have had a pair of flames for about six months. They are best buddies.

If you want a pair, start with small specimens, and put them in at the same time.


There is a photo in my gallery. Click on the camera icon on the top of my post.

Sorry the pick is so bad, getting a good pic of one angel is hard enough for me. They are not as small as they look in the photo, the leather is just huge and was closer than them to the camera.

[ChasingPuck]

6 months is an awfully short time frame for suggesting success.

[Laura D]

I am not just basing this on just my six month success, but he wanted personal experience so that is what I gave him.

I decided to do this after seeing other reefers here on rc have long term success with their harems of centropyge. It's a well discussed topic here, and there have been quite a few that have done this.

Introduced together while young in a larger tank, centropyge angels will form a harem.

[Rare Angels]

I also have several pairs of centropyge angels. In fact I have two pairs of centropyge's in one tank.

It takes planning, patience and the knowledge of the species you are going to try and pair. Its not for the faint hearted.

[bubbletip]

I've had a coral beauty and a keyhole in a 135 gal with no problems. Add close togehter though.

[EdKruzel]

The flames (C. loricula) are the easiest of all Centropyge to pair or group.

Provided the tank is large (about 100 or more gallons) many of the dwarfs are happy to pair.
Territory=Survival, next is survival of the species.

Grazers such as the Flame angel look at their surroundings and find a shelter. The shelter must be secure and near an ample food source.
When this is accomplished and the fish is healthy and of little stress the next instinct (survival of the species) kicks in.

Following the simple biological needs of any animal (fishes) allows us to keep an abundance of species. Being able to match the specifics is the difficult portion.
IMO most hobbyists fail because they place too much stress on their new guest.
Improper food or not enough.
Poor shelter.
Not enough space.
Other inhabitants that are more boisterous or aggressive than the attempted pair.

Laura,
6mths is more than adequate when judging success for pairing or dietary requirements. Congrats! You're there.

ChasingPuck,
When referring to long term success it is geared more toward the maturity of most species, some invertebrate life and filtration techniques on new set-ups.
Smaller species such as dwarf angels and even large angels can mature in just over 4mths after the larval stage.
Again it is more our fault that a fish does not properly mature under our care due to improper environment and/or diet.

An example being:
Pomacanthus imperator - I've seen 4'' full adult coloration and some 12+" that still remain with juvenile coloration.

Balistoides conspicillum - In 25yrs I have only seen two reach their adult coloration when raised from juveniles. Mine was one and the second was the famous "Gizmo".
Do you know how to tell a mature B. conspicillum, and have you ever seen one in captivity?

The Master himself, Scott Michael told a group of us that he bases basic success on 90 days. He travels far too frequently to maintain tanks beyond that.

Please don't judge someone’s accomplishments so harshly.

Ed

[ChasingPuck]

Ed--I agree in some cases, but the tendency in this hobby to pronounce success on the basis of a few months causes more problems than not. Is success keeping an animal for less than 1 tenth of it's life? Not in my book. Put that in human terms--are you a successful parent if you raise a child to 7 years of age?

Indicating that the fish are comptible in a large tank when introduced together if all needs of shelter and food sources are met would not have provoked a comment from me. But leaving out important specifics is where myth and misinformation breed, and not only is this a disservice to the new hobbyist, but the fish as well.

[EdKruzel]

Well written...

I just thought you were hasty as Laura was only passing on personal experience.
She was specific about the topic of pairing, not longevity of the animals life.

I completely agree with you that many hobbyists use references to basic keeping in short term which is wrong.

A small Yellow Tang will do great in a 75gal for 6mths, however as to the point you make; what about in a year, five years, or twenty years?

Specifics on the topics we address are very important, espeacially for the newer hobbyist.

I've answered a thread or two here (and other sites) and also need to ensure I remain within the topic.

For anyone that was tagging this thread and is interested in my above question:
A mature Clown Trigger loses the yellow stripes from the face/mouth region.

Take care,
Ed

[ChasingPuck]

Acknowledged. Apologies if I sounded critical of Laura's success-certainly not.

A point of clarification, JTrigger, are you wanting to add a pair of same species angels, or to mix different types of angels? A pair of flames will be different than a single flame and a potters, which was my original interpretation of the question.

[JTrigger]

Hi All,

Thanks so much for the input.. I didn't mean to start a huge debate.. but I was just considering adding a coral beauty and perhaps a flame... or perhaps two CBs...

JT