Ouch! Electricity going up to 85%!!!!

[Tang-A]

Ouch! Now that electricity is going up in California up to 85%, is it really advantageous to use the electronic MH
ballast? Can somebody calculate how much savings I can generate if I use an electronic ballast compared to the tar ballast? Heck, I might just quit the hobby.

[bigtank]

The more electricity costs, the more you'll save with an electronic ballast.

I think the savings would be much greater by using lower wattage lamps and not using VHO actinics. The 250w HQI and 250w Iwasaki are both equal to or brighter than most 400w MH.

Why are they raising the rates so much? Electricity is pretty cheap where I live and hopefully will stay that way forever.

[Aquaman]

BlueLine electronic ballast say they are %40 more effecient than Tar ballast

[tubs]

Bummer,

I've given though to converting my SPS tank to a lower energy consuming softie/LPS tank. I'll probably make the decision when the next bill comes but I don't want to see it.

Did our wise political leaders have their head in the *** when they made the decisions on deregulation! Simple market research should have foreseen this but then again egostistical and self-serving politicians always have hidden agenda.

[john f]

Since you interjected politics..........

Deregulation never happened.

They may have called it deregulation, but when the state fixes prices and does not allow new capacity to be built, that is OVERREGULATION, not deregulation.


John

[David Grigor]

Don't forget to factor in the cost of a generator or some other backup for when they start the rolling blackouts...

[Justdrew]

Hi,

From what I understand the hardest hit are going to be those that use more electricity. The average consumer is not supposed to see the full 85% rate hike. One news report said some of the population will not see any rate hike at all based on the new proposal.

Later
Drew

[64Ivy]

To John F

As someone who, thankfully, got out of the Peoples Republic of SoCal in time, I gotta say...RIGHT ON!!!

[slojmn]

Hey bigtank, an interesting note in the San Fran Chronical this week. Texas is charging California $1900 per magawatt hour they send and have a monopoly on the route/line going to California so they control who sends it to us and how much we pay for the stuff coming through the line. Hate to say it but Bush being past govenor of Texas and refusing to even acknowledge this price gouging smells like my skimmate.

I agree with John regarding overegulation. What a joke, only the joke is on the little guys.

[grif]

Earthquakes. Wildfires. Drive By Shootings. Crips. Bloods. Illegal aliens. Stratospheric housing costs. Water rationing. Now you've got out of control energy prices.

Remind me again why anyone would want to live in CA?

[PerryinCA]

Originally posted by grif
Earthquakes. Wildfires. Drive By Shootings. Crips. Bloods. Illegal aliens. Stratospheric housing costs. Water rationing. Now you've got out of control energy prices.

Remind me again why anyone would want to live in CA?

Warm weather, sandy beaches, big $ jobs in Si. Valley, CA. women, closest to hawaii, the Sierra Nevada's (tahoe), Vegas, Good Schools, No tornado's, floods, hurricanes.....why wouldn't you want to live in California? We may have higher energy costs, but also have the highest median income in the country (specifically my own county).

-Perry

[Psyduck]

I was under the impression it was only going up for the consumers that use the most power. I heard like 60% of the customers will not have a rate increase of any sort. Of course, that is what we are told in Michigan :D.

[Tcook]

Originally posted by Justdrew
Hi,

From what I understand the hardest hit are going to be those that use more electricity. The average consumer is not supposed to see the full 85% rate hike. One news report said some of the population will not see any rate hike at all based on the new proposal.

Later
Drew

Yes they(power companies, politicians) love to quote this. It's a bunch of crap. I don't consider my self wasteful with electricity but my last bill stated that my house was considered to have a baseline of 330kwh. Maybe if I didn't run the AC (never gets hot in central california!) and replaced all my light with 10watt bulbs I could do that. I had over 1100kwh over baseline. This baseline determination crap is just a sneaky way for them to be able to ream you on your electric bill.

[myron]

Hello,
There is a high probability that corruption and hidden agendas are factors in this deregulation fiasco. You guys who disagree better read up more. When California sold off the power plants, private companies bought the plants at 3 times the assessed value. That alone should give warning to the politicians that something has gone wrong in there calculations. Also when many new power plant were being proposed in California, it was those energy lobbiest that stopped the construction not the environmentalist. That should have raised some eyebrows. And when San Deigo's energy shot up through the roof, seems like nobody forcast it as a warning of the coming statewide deregulation fiasco. And who in the hell convinced power plants to convert natural gas to electricity? How can the energy experts/advisors make so many wrong decisions? Seems like California trusted too much on the advices of energy salesmen and their tactics.
Gif, Yes California has alot of issues to deal with, but what does your state have to offer? Corporate malls and sameness everywhere?

[David Grigor]

Perry,

"why wouldn't you want to live in California?"

Earthquakes, wilderfires etc. etc. Don't keep me from living in CA..

It's the diluted morals and way too liberal for my tastes.....that what keeps me away. You can keep all your CA girls with the implants.

[tubs]

Psyduck,

That figure was made by politicians so go figure for yourself. The utilities claim that that figure is way too high and even the most conservative of households can't stay below baseline usage or below 130% so to me practically everybody is affected. Heck the baselines that we're given just don't seem attainable to me even if I were to take down all my tanks and conserve energy where I could.

Heck, even as bad as this crisis is here it's still hard to beat the climate - activity wise, weather wise, and job wise. Earthquakes are not endemic to CA. Been through some major ones and would rather go through one than a tornado or cyclones of which are much more numerous.

[hartman]

Well, I dont know about you, but here in Boston MA my electric and gas bills have more than doubled over the last 8-12 months.

Hartman

[slojmn]

David Grigor, OUCH....Speaking on behalf of the many naturally buxom woman in California I resent your comment :D

[myron]

David Grigor,
Hey David. You seem to sterotype people so well. California is diverse and consist of people from every part of planet earth and yes some from pluto as well. Are you saying that people with different ways of thinking than yours are immoral people? Wow!!!That is certainly thinking different.
And besides silicon is a miricle material. You should know being that your career depends on it.

[David Grigor]

IMO: CA lawmakers are the front runners when it comes to policies that dilute the morals of this country. You vote for them in so they must represent the majority.

We need to get back to a God fearing country and none of this "as long as your not hurtin' anybody liberal attitude".

[Joez]

Well said David!

It is pretty much a moral cesspool, but there are lots of good people here too (I know some of them and am trying to stay on the road myself).

I think my time in Purgatory is being decreased by my tenure in California. Imagine being a Conservative in northern California (aka the People's Republic of California)! It ain't pretty.

BTW, isn't Oracle great?

[funktree]

Im glad to live in california after reading that one.

[David Grigor]

means "revere" in that context.....

I'll shut up now and get back to the subject at hand....

Perry posed the question and I gave my opinion.

[Autumn]

Originally posted by David Grigor
We need to get back to a God fearing country and none of this "as long as your not hurtin' anybody liberal attitude".

Fear of whose god, David? Yours? (You're a protestant Christian, I assume-) Mine? (I'm Anglican-) My grandfather's? (Jewish-) My friend Rajnee's? (Islamic-)

How about Catholics? The Orthadox? Coptics? Mormons?... Or do you just want evangelical Protestants to dictate the course of the culture in your little utopian vision of America? And what about all of the Hindus, Buddhists, and other people *not* "of the Book", as the mullahs say? Are you going to deny them any say in the matter by telling them that they're all heathens, just deport them for not beleiving the same things you do, or demand that they all convert to your brand of Christianity to retain their citizenship and stake in the country?

There are too many different ideas about God and and too many different interpretations of "the rules" to let any one faith dictate what's "right" and "proper" to all of the others, liberal politics aside. There's a very good reason why it's unconctitutional to have a sanctioned state religeon... Jefferson and Comapny weren't stupid when they put that prohabition in place...

It's fine and good to say that you want to live in a just and reasonably moral society... but you can't just define that using your version of Scripture ("god fearing") and expect everyone else to bow their heads and say Amen. What's right and moral to you may be sinful and repugnant to someone who belongs to a different congregation on Sunday.

If the Jewish population of the country was pushing to make everything kosher by law, and to enact the rules of Orthodox life as the "standard of good behaviour" for the entire country, Christians would howl and say they were being oppressed.

For some reason when Christians try to do it though, they don't see any problems...

Selective blindness maybe?

[Q-ball]

Hey guys, we're arguing about electricity here...be nice & try to avoid insulting each others' religions ok? We know what happened when other discussions went this way in the past & I'd hate to see that happen again...

Q!!!

[David Grigor]

Autumn,

Please forgive my generalizations (which are
probably TOTALLY MISCONSTRUED) and please forgive me
for being a person who delights in God, and in being
"God Fearing" I am sorry you have judged me as a
bigot, and someone who hates any other religion but my
own (even though you have no idea who I am, and how I
worship God)I have obviously hit a sore spot with you,
so for that, forgive me. I never intended to offend
you.

[Autumn]

Sorry guys. I spent too long living in the South...

I've heard way too much pulpit-pounding and seen way too much silliness done in the name of "returning the country to its Moral Foundation as a Christian nation under God" (a quote from the Southern Baptist Convention's platform) to let a statement like David's go entirely unanswered.

For the record, I'm not the one who brought God into it.

David and I will never agree on the subject, obviously... but my intention wasn't to "insult" Christianity as a whole. It was to point out a problem with his assumption about what consitiutes a good society to live in.

The thread seems to have wandered well away from "Energy" long before either of us posted.

[funktree]

With all the press the power situation is getting I was surprised to have my power bills be lower than they were a couple of months ago, Im not gonna call PG&E and ask why though.

[shellisland]

Q- well said.

I dont completely understand how deregulation works, but from what I have heard, it sounds like not enough research was done...sort of reactive instead of proactive.
Lets hope someone somewhere learned a lesson in all of this. I cant imagine living on a fixed income only to have your power bill rocket up. That must be just terrible.

[myron]

Hello,
Energy is coming scarce as a result of higher demand and less resources.
Maybe we can all conserve by cutting back on our tank lighting. All I can say is that my SPS grows well with 4-96 PC's 9 hours per day. And they all look as fantastic with other comparable tanks with 1000 watt of MH. The only difference is that they grow a bit slower. And besides, Slower growth is probally a good thing as one would prune less.
Conserve,save bucks and make God happy for doing your part.

[slojmn]

I just received my PG&E bill yesterday, it was the same as the month before. I suppose, according to the media reports, the increase will not show up until my next bill. OOOO, I can't wait :(.