Wardley Chlor Out

[Ninong]

Randy,

Any idea what the active ingredient is in this product? There is nothing on the label and nothing on their website.

It simply says that it "neutralizes" chlorine and chloramines in tapwater. I have been using it according to the manufacturer's directions (5 drops per gallon) ever since I got a hand held TDS meter and found that my D.I. water coming out of the D.I. filter measures 27 - 32 ppm. I measured the water straight from the kitchen faucet and got a reading of 172 ppm, which is in line with the local water district's report showing 178 ppm.

This was the only product I could find locally (Wal-Mart) and the nearest LFS is more than 40 miles away. Should I be using something else instead of, or in addition to, this product?

I am treating the D.I. water with these drops even though it has already passed though a brand new D.I. cartridge. Obviously I need a better R.O./D.I. system instead of this portable D.I. only filter. I am treating the water that I use to make limewater, which I have been dripping nightly as evaporation replacement and I will have to treat the water that I use to make saltwater as my salt mix does not contain any dechlorinating/dechloriminating compounds (CS Bioassay).

My aquarium is exactly seven weeks old. It is a 120-gal tank with 150-lbs of live rock and a 7" deep sand bed. I have been feeding the sand bed rather heavily because I have 100 Nassarius vibex plus a rather large collection of other snails, a couple of Strombus alatus, a small Holothuria sand cuke, 24 small Tapes sand bed clams, a bunch of worms and zillions of copepods and amphipods. And here comes my next question:

My test readings for the past three weeks have been pretty much the same: pH 8.0-8.4, temp 80-85F, Ca 433 ppm, Alk 4.1 mEq/L - 11.6 dKH, ammonia approx. 0.20 ppm, nitrite approx. 0.05-0.10 ppm, nitrate approx. 15-20 ppm. Is it normal to still be seeing a slight color in my nitrite test? NH4, NO2 & NO3 tests are Salifert. Sometimes the nitrite test is clearly somewhere between the 0.10 and 0.25 color but most of the time it is below that and I have to hold the vial up and look at it through the side, in which case it usually is slightly lighter than the 1 color square, giving me a reading of 0.10 or less.

If my nitrates are down below 25 ppm -- and today they were clearly only 10 ppm -- shouldn't I be getting clear results on the nitrite test? I may be paranoid about the ammonia test because sometimes I cannot detect any yellowish tint at all and other times I think that there is a slight yellowish tint but it hasn't been anywhere close to the 0.5 color square since the very first week the tank was set up.

Could these readings simply reflect the fact that I am feeding a little too much or is something else at play here? When other people say that their nitrites are zero, are they getting perfectly clear results with absolutely no hint of color?

Thanks,

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The active ingredient is probably thiosulfate, as are most dechlorinators, but I don't know about that one in particular.

Check this thread for details:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232845

It could be that the nitrite just needs more time to drop. Also, elevated nitrite actually impacts the performance of many nitrate kits, so beware that the nitrate kit may not read correctly (reads too high) if there are nitrites (according to Habib).

[Ninong]

Thanks.

[Habib]

I may be paranoid about the ammonia test because sometimes I cannot detect any yellowish tint at all and other times I think that there is a slight yellowish tint but it hasn't been anywhere close to the 0.5 color square since the very first week the tank was set up.


One remedy is not to measure too often. :)

The yellow not anywhere vclose to 0.5 ppm means a value lower than 0.2 ppm or so. The ammonia concentration will vary with the time of the day. Feeding is usually done once per day and can result in a sort of ammonia peak of say 0.1 or 0.2 ppm.

The same can be the case with the nitrite. Especially since the tank is 7 weeks old and the bacteria might not have reached a high enough population yet.




If my nitrates are down below 25 ppm -- and today they were clearly only 10 ppm --
If the nitrite is high then it wil show up as nitrate but then amplified.

With kits you are using and a 0.1 ppm of nitrite any nitrate reading above 2 ppm is true nitrate. So the 10 ppm is approx. 10 ppm. During the early cycling period high nitrite readings of say 1 or 2 ppm can give a nitrate reading of 25 - 50 ppm even if no nitrate is present. But this is no longer applicable for your situation.


When other people say that their nitrites are zero, are they getting perfectly clear results with absolutely no hint of color?


It will never be zero. It will depend on the tank, time of measurement and which test kit people are using.

FWIW a nitrite reading of 0.05 is IMO good but values of 0.01 or lower are values which can be achieved in atleast some tanks.

HTH :)

[Ninong]

Thanks! :D

Maybe I should just test my nitrates since I'm happy with those results at this stage of the game :lol:

I believe my readings are due to two things and you seem to agree with me: The tank is still maturing.

I am feeding heavily to maintain the large population of snails and other critters that I added all at once on purpose.
Fortunately I have virtually no diatoms, no cyanobacteria and still no hair algae of any kind. So something's working right; maybe it's all the critters I dumped in there within a two week period starting in the third week. I used fully cured live rock and that may have helped in avoiding hair algae problems, too.

:)

[Habib]

Maybe I should just test my nitrates since I'm happy with those results at this stage of the game

Or just the temperature. LOL

Thanks!

You're welcome and good luck. :)

[Boomer]

I would suspect this is also another psuedo chloarmine remover, as if it wasn't and was the real deal they would say removes ammonia also in the ad. It is all in the link Randy posted

[Ninong]

I received the following e-mail response from The Hartz Mountain Company, makers of Wardley Chlor-Out that supposedly "neutralizes" chlorine and chloramines in tapwater.

In response to your inquiry, the active ingredient in Chlor Out is Sodium Bicarbonate.


Hartz Mountain Corp.
Consumer Relations Dept.
400 Plaza Drive
Secaucus, NJ 07094
(20l) 271-4800

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That product wouldn't seem to be of much use then. :lol:

[Ninong]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
That product wouldn't seem to be of much use then. :lol:

I thought maybe there was something I might be missing, so I was waiting for your opinion. Unless the person responding to my e-mail was "just one of the ladies in the front office" who gave me an incorrect answer. That's the excuse I was given by the local water district's engineer when I complained that I had previously been told "we only add chlorine" to our water. He said the "ladies in the front office" tell everyone that because they don't know the difference between chlorine and chloramines and neither do most of their customers. :rolleyes:

Here is a link to Wardley's FAQ section: http://www.wardley-fish.com/faq.asp

Check out the answer to the second question, which I will copy here:

"To kill bacteria, many communities treat the municipal water supplies with chlorine and chloramine. Although the level used are [sic] save for humans, to fish these chemicals are extremely dangerous. Chlorine and chloramine can be hazardous and even fatal to ornamental aquarium fish. In order to use tap water in the aquarium, the water must be neutralized BEFORE adding the fish. Wardley(R) WaterCare Chlor Out Treatment(TM) safely and effectively neutralizes chlorine and chloramine in the tap water. Instantly, the tap water is adjusted to a safe level for changing or adding water to the aquarium."

The 4 oz. bottle says it "Treats 679 Gallons." "Neutralizes Chlorine and Chloramines in Tap Water." "For Use in Fresh and Saltwater Aquariums."

Randy, please PM me with a suggested response to their e-mail. Thanks.

:)


P.S. -- Just for the record, here is their complete response:

From: "Hartz Consumer Relations" <consumerrelations@hartz.com>
Subject: Case# 35649
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:59:44 -0400
To: <ni823nong03@charter.net>





Case #: 35649

Thank you for your interest in our products and hope you enjoy visiting our
website. In an attempt to
better serve our customers in an expedient manner, we ask your cooperation
in responding to e-mail
in the reply section of the original correspondence.

In response to your inquiry, the active ingredient in Chlor Out is Sodium
Bicarbonate.


Hartz Mountain Corp.
Consumer Relations Dept.
400 Plaza Drive
Secaucus, NJ 07094
(20l) 271-4800

[Boomer]

In response to your inquiry, the active ingredient in Chlor Out is Sodium Bicarbonate

:rollface: :rollface: :rollface: :rollface: :rollface:

Ok, so know they are saying that common Arm & Hammer Baking Soda neutrilizes chlorine and chloramines. That is the funniest thing I've ever heard.:lol: The active ingredient is Sodium Thiosulfate. So much for Wardely's technical staff:eek1:

[Ninong]

Originally posted by Boomer
In response to your inquiry, the active ingredient in Chlor Out is Sodium Bicarbonate

:rollface: :rollface: :rollface: :rollface: :rollface:

Ok, so know they are saying that common Arm & Hammer Baking Soda neutrilizes chlorine and chloramines. That is the funniest thing I've ever heard.:lol: The active ingredient is Sodium Thiosulfate. So much for Wardely's technical staff:eek1:

Thanks! :D

That's what I thought, too, but I just wanted confirmation.

[Ninong]

OK, I sent Wardley a reply to their e-mail. I asked them to please have one of the grownups double check their answers next time. I told them that I suspected that it was sodium thiosulfate and was just looking for confirmation from them.

I'll be sure to post their response.

:lol:

[Ninong]

Besides the Chlor Out stuff, they have two other products:

Conditioning the Waters
Most communities treat their municipal water supplies with chlorine and chloramine to kill bacteria. These chemicals are dangerous to fish and must be neutralized when making water changes and in new aquarium set-ups prior to the introduction of fish. WARDLEY ONE DROP SUPERCHLOR AND WARDLEY SUPERCHLOR PLUS immediately removes all traces of chlorine and chloramine with complete safety to fish and plants.

They provide a supply of "conditioned" aquarium water instantly after use. A half-ounce bottle of ONE DROP SUPERCHLOR will treat 220 gallons of water. SUPERCHLOR PLUS in a one ounce bottle treats 145 gallons, neutralizing heavy metals such as copper, iron, zinc and lead, adds electrolytes to reduce stress and adds proteins to the water, enabling the fish to build up their protective slime coating.

A day or so after set-up you might notice that water is cloudy. This cloudiness is caused either by the proliferation of bacteria or suspended articles. The cloudiness will soon disappear as the bacteria die off, but you can hasten their disappearance through the use of WARDLEY CLEAN SWEEP which quickly clears up cloudy aquarium water.

You can search their website from one end to the other and you will not find out what the ingredients are in any of these different water treatment products. "Just Buy It" seems to be their motto.

The claim for Chlor Out is that it "neutralizes" chlorine and chloramines. The claim for the other two products is that they "remove" all traces of chlorine and chloramine.


:rolleyes:

[Ninong]

:lol:

I just caught this typo of theirs:

This cloudiness is caused either by the proliferation of bacteria or suspended articles.

Yeah, blame it on the suspended articles. :rollface:

[Boomer]

The claim for Chlor Out is that it "neutralizes" chlorine and chloramines. The claim for the other two products is that they "remove" all traces of chlorine and chloramine.


Almost all dechlors make this calim they aren't saying anything new.

Hmmmmmmm Ninong, thye dont' seem to want to say where the ammoina went now do they.:confused: If their dechlor was so good they would make claim it also took out the ammoina....not said :rolleyes:

In case I forgot to mention I don't think much of Wardley, never have ;0

[Boomer]

Yeah, blame it on the suspended articles.:rollface:

Hey Nin, take a look to see if any of them say Randy Holmes-Farley on them, we need to blame him for something :D

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Nin, take a look to see if any of them say Randy Holmes-Farley on them, we need to blame him for something

I asked them to suspend all of my articles, but I didn't think they would blame cloudy water on them. :lol:

[Ninong]

Originally posted by Ninong
OK, I sent Wardley a reply to their e-mail. I asked them to please have one of the grownups double check their answers next time. I told them that I suspected that it was sodium thiosulfate and was just looking for confirmation from them.

I'll be sure to post their response.

:lol:

And here is their new and improved response:

Case #: 35649

Thank you for your interest in our products and hope you enjoy visiting our
website. In an attempt to
better serve our customers in an expedient manner, we ask your cooperation
in responding to e-mail
in the reply section of the original correspondence.

In response to your inquiry, there are two active ingredients in the Wardley
Chlor Out they are: Sodium
Bicarbonate and Sodium Thiosulfate.


Hartz Mountain Corp.
Consumer Relations Dept.
400 Plaza Drive
Secaucus, NJ 07094
(20l) 271-4800

[Boomer]

So they are putting in some baking soda to buffer the water. Kordon is now doing the same thing with Kordon +Plus w/Buffer

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds like a fairly useless improvement when used in a marine application. :lol:

[Habib]

It will keep the thiosulfate longer as it is. :)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You mean in the bottle as a preservative?

[Habib]

Yes, in the bottle. If the pH of the water is low e.g. due to CO2 then it will decompose the thiosulfate slowly.

Besides that some thiobacilli like the thiosulfate. A somewhat higher pH inhibits these bacteria somewhat. But a too high pH will again cause decompsition of the thiosulfate if oxygen is present.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, as an in the bottle preservative, the bicarbonate sounds like a fine additive.