Can you believe what Dr.FosterSmith recommends

[nematode]

This is on pg 38 of there most recent catalog ( 08vol03-61- with a clown and purple tip anemone)

It is a two page spread on how to start a reef aquarium.

step 1. pour sand into the bottom of the aquarium
step 2. arrange live rock as desired.
step 3 Fill aquarium with dechlorinated water.
step 4. add salt (dissolve and mix) until the specific activity measures 1.025.

So they actually tell you to give your 250$ worth of live rock a long freshwater bath and then a slow raise in salinity to 1.025.
I wonder what bonehead wrote this.

Here it is as a photo of the catalog.

[Sloth]

also makes you wonder about the liverock they sell.

[Agu]

Have you contacted them and pointed out the error ? You may also point out they recommend dechlorinated tap water :rolleyes: .

In general I find their advice in the catalog to be pretty good although a bit simplistic .

Agu

[freakyreef]

Keep reading about the fish you are supposed to add!!! They "recommend" a yellow tang in a 46g.

[grim]

Nah, that is the way to do it. The 'little bit' of die off from the live rock is a great way to jump start the cycle... :)

jb

[dknape]

By killing off the livestock, they sell another fish a little sooner.

[Chad]

That's funny, someone should let them know.

I got a livestock shipment from them today and it was awesome. I bought various snails and green chromis. Free shipping on the order and a couple of backordered items will be shipped next week for no charge also. They even called me last night to let me know my order had shipped. I am very impressed so far, don't let that oversight skew your opinion of them though:D

[Scuba_Dave]

On another thread someone found a similar problem & when it was pointed out, they responded. They said they would correct the error, that the best intentions of the person who makes the write up - is sometimes changed by an editor for "easier reading".
Let them know, they seem very responsive & eager to have mistakes corrected

[nematode]

DrsFosterSmith said they
" We apologize for the misinformation in the listed article._ We are aware of the misprint, and have taken steps to correct the error"

Lets see if the same thing appears in the next version of their catalog. they send one out every two weeks or so.

[liv4speed1]

Originally posted by Sloth
also makes you wonder about the liverock they sell.

I got live rock from them, and I couldnt have asked for anything better. Of course that's just me, and other people may have other experiences

[moconet]

I also got my LR from them. It is some of the best looking rock formations I have seen. It was packaged properly and they did pick some really awesome pieces.

[jimmyj7090]

As scuba dave mentioned, similar concerns came up after the last printing of their catalog and the how to start a reef section.

A DrF&S rep responded to the thread with the very nice and responsible sounding post that Dave was qouting.

the problem is that I just got the newest printing of the catalog and it appears they have changed little or nothing about their terribly irresponsible (but replacement livestock selling) advice.

It appears that Dr F & S pay attention to posts like this one, then make empty promises to remedy the concerns, and thus shut up concerned hobbiests. I personally find it patronizing and insulting, in addition to it being bad for the hobby in general.

Who gave these jokers my address because I surely didn't?

Any response Dr F & S?

[saltshop]

It is quite likely that the printer already has several future catalogs in process at any given time. I would not be surprised if it were to take several months before there are changes to the catalogs you actually receive. Printing of catalogs is not something you just drop off on Monday and have that Wednesday to distribute. The printer most likely has 4-5 issues ahead of the one you just received already set to print or printed already.

[Bridge Man]

If you keep reading the article, they recommend an enormous amount of fish to be kept in such a small tank. Addind three or four fish at a time and then saying to just wait a few weeks, then dump in three or four more. I can't remember exactly how many and of what they recommend, but its ridiculous.

[jimmyj7090]

good point saltshop.

For me the verdict is still out, but I'm pretty skeptical. oh yea, has anyone looked at the drygoods prices? I doubt I'll be ordering anything anyway.

(for all my negativity, I will be impressed if Dr F&S really does something about this issue, maybe I would even order a thermometer or a bioball out of gratitude)

(sorry, it's a surly day for me)

jk

[Sloth]

Don't provoke them to change their sales pitches and advice. Just let them slowly lose respect and see if they eventually fade out of the industry.

[outprowllin]

Facinating.......

[Paul-sn]

The live rock advice isn't all that bad, you know. It's hardly worth fussing about at all.
Do you think it really matters that much if the live rock is added before the water? No.
By that point, it's probably been out of the water for many, many hours anyway, and the few minutes it takes to add the water and salt will contribute perhaps only a little more to the die-off.

I don't think it's such a problem. It may not be the way we do things normally, but if someone did do it that way, things would still work out fine.

[Sloth]

Maybe I just have a peeve with major Conglomo corporations that deal with livestock...

[Paul-sn]

I hear ya!

Maybe I just have a peeve with major Conglomo corporations that deal with livestock...

But, umm... there's no escaping it. Well, unless you're vegan anyway. You know where the majority of our meats, eggs, and dairy come from, I take it.

Not that I'm saying the Drs are right, because it is odd, I'm just saying that companies like them will always be around.
Like you said though, if you disagree with them, just ignore them, don't buy from them, and hope they disappear...

[miio]

I understand the logic of taking the right steps to insure healthy live rock. For that matter steps 1 and 2 should be reversed IMO so that sand shifting won't cause the stacked rock to colapse. However, technical writing isn't so easy especially when there's more than one way to set up a thriving tank. Just look at how many times people on this message board have to clarify their own posts because of misinterpretation.

[jimmyj7090]

I agree with what everyone is saying here, but my concerns are more about the advice on which and how many fish to put in what size tank, and who might innocently follow that advice.

LR does go through an awful traumatic ride no matter what we do as we add it to our tanks, (though I can't imagine why someone wouldnt want to mix the salt first unless maybe the rock is crawling with flat worms) so I don't chose to focus my criticism on the advice re LR.

but stocking a 46 gallon tank with:

3 ocellaris, 1 pseudochromis, 1 six-line, 6 chromis, and 1 cardinal in addition to several types of simple inverts over the first 6 weeks, then adding a coral beauty, yellow tang, flame hawk, algae blenny, and 3 carpenter wrasse over the next few weeks,,, sounds a bit reckless to me. Possible maybe, but not how I would advise a beginner.

What really bothers me is how simple and easy this makes it sound. Only the true newbie will even consider this guide when planning a tank, but I can only cynicially wonder if this is aimed at taking advantage of those inexperienced beginners. No mention of quarintine, disease concerns, GROWTH, or Moving slowly at all. How about the eternal quote "nothing good happens fast in a reef". An experienced hobbiest wouldn't likely even consider adding any near that much livestock in such a short time, and a yellow tang in a 46?

Everything in this hobby is up for debate (??DSB??) but this guide seems to support the fast and fearless approach to starting a reef. Is that responsible, or just a good volume sales approach (the more they kill, the more we sell).

I'm waiting to see if the Dr's do chance their tune in future printings of their catalog. For now I'm annoyed with them for seemingly making good PR promises, but then totally blowing it off. I'm waiting...........

[blackjacks_mom]

Originally posted by Sloth
Maybe I just have a peeve with major Conglomo corporations that deal with livestock... Well, I have a peeve about big corporations all together. The prices were better when it was just Pet Warehouse and Fly Fish Express. Competition keeps the merchants honest and gives the consumer choices. But, buying up your competition appears to be the way of the future. :mad:

So, I think the best thing is to do your own research prior to buying any product whether it's a fish or drygoods, LFS or on line purchase. Don't rely on the merchant to know what you *need*.

[wizardgus®]

Well, some of you know this is one of my favorite suppliers...so right up front I am biased. BUT, if you go to their Live Aquaria website, and their Pet Education site, and many tips and notes in their catalogs, I think you will have to admit there just isn't another supplier who tries as hard to be forthright and honest on reefkeeping and livestock. Lots of good advice. This would not be an example obviously. I'll bet they correct it though. As was stated, it will have to catch up with printing, but they are usually pretty good about this stuff.

[Sloth]

Yeah, I have to admit that I look at their fish profiles pretty often.

[rbaker]

I agree with Wizardgus. They try harder than most, and generally give good information...

JMO,

Ryan

[RhumbRunner]

Echo the Wiz, et at. If you shoot these guys a question, they make a serious attempt to give you an intelligent answer. Looks like they made a stupid error to me, but one they are willing to correct. All things considered, they still look like the best mail-order outfit around. To those who hate big corporations: when was the last time you bought a $150 pump from your LFS instead of buying it for $100 from a mail-order corporation? How about the computer you're using to post here? From the garage down the street (like I did for years) for 2 or 3 grand or from DELL, for $800 bucks? You can hate them for many reasons (I do for my now defunct 401K), but you can't deny that size DOES matter:-). H. Ford.

Later,

[freakyreef]

I agree, in fact, They are one of the only suppliers I use online. It is a stupid mistake though. Now just see if they'll take care of it in future issues.


P.S. I just did order a pump from them since they are on sale now..Waiting for it now like a kid on X-mas.:D