Royal Gramma (Brazilian) behavior...

[DensityMan]

Hard to describe this and after watching her do this for 10 minutes I can't believe I only got this one decent shot and didn't think to turn on the video option. Anyway, if a picture is worth a thousand words I hope this picture is written legibly:

http://www.densityman.com/images/reef_tank_new/braz_gramma_bigmouth.jpg

I've seen her open her mouth to 'threaten' off anyone encroaching on her perceived terrirtory (including her reflection), but this was truly odd behavior. She was doing barrel-rolls (imagine a dog rolling-over) with her mouth pressed up against the front-glass and open about 25% more than in the above shot; repeatedly. As a side-note I did notice that the area just before 'her' tail-fin was red instead of yellow during the display. So is this normal? First time she's done anything like this in the week or so I've had her... Spawning behavior? Threat behavior? Just crazy?

The only thing 'different' about her environment is the ongoing cyano 'battle' and the fact that my grandfather was relaxing in front of the tank.

It was just weird... in a fun way... ;)

[Mark]

She's threatening her reflection. Often fish of the same species and gender will lock jaws and twirl together. A battle for dominance. Pretty entertaining. Great pic btw.

[DensityMan]

Thanks!

Still can't believe I didn't catch her using the video feature... :lol:
Oh well, good to know she isn't abnormal or sick.

Thanks again,

[g.mcclean]

I'm interested to know if anyone else has noticed strange behavior during a cyano outbreak. I posted a question titled "stress relief" or something to that nature. In it I did not mention the fact that I also am battling a cyano outbreak and that my gramma had been acting strange. She definitely did not like the cyano. I wonder now if that caused her stress?

[g.mcclean]

I'm interested to know if anyone else has noticed strange behavior during a cyano outbreak. I posted a question titled "stress relief" or something to that nature. In it I did not mention the fact that I also am battling a cyano outbreak and that my gramma had been acting strange. She definitely did not like the cyano. I wonder now if that caused her stress?

[DensityMan]

She still 'challenges' me, but most frequently it is when I where a red or maroon shirt, otherwise she runs when I walk too close. Totally anecdotal, but definately provable in this tank. ;)

New 'problem' though...

She has taken to power-ramming the shrooms, sand, LR and corals of the tank. By night-time her mucous coating has grabbed lots of very fine sediment/sand and looks to be dying of the most horrible case of 'ich' ever... by morning she is well again, but I can't see any obvious signs of stress or injury.

She's really stressing out an encrusting coral that came in on a rock recently by power-scratching herself over its surface.

Is this normal or is she crazy... still?

Thanks all (for before and in advance for this round) :D

[ignite1402]

think she's fine... just abit **** up in the head i guess... lol it's fun to see ur own fish acting strangly... very entertaining indeeded...

[DensityMan]

That's true... she's ALWAYS entertaining in some way. I just wish she'd be crazy more at the sand and less at the corals.

[Uncle-Edgar]

Density Man, Great Pic, you ahta post it in the closeup thread.
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89188

Our Gramma acts the same way, she tends to lay on her side in/on the algae and snooze. Her yap really flys open when the Six Line Wrasse comes sniffing around.

[ignite1402]

haha hey but do take note that they are a very teritorrial fishes... so becareful when u wanna add some other gamma or similiar looking / coloring fishes.... u may end up burying one.. lol

[Anildo Matos]

Hello DensityMan, nice pic


Now I have remembered one thing I've heard once. Is the fact that the Grammas lives motly as steady couples on the nature, so the strange behaviour they have in captivity are due to the separation of male and female. Has anybody knows something regarding it ?

When I heard that I even regret of keeping one alone gramma in my tank. It makes sense, because is very common we hear people sayng how inconstant and sometimes strangely the grammas behave in captivity, hinding all the time in rock cravices and sometimes making a sudden launch followed by a fast and desperate swimm all over the tank in few seconds and them hides itself again and many other things they used to do like this one that DensityMan is telling us now.

Does anyone here has seen grammas in their natural habitat to check if this behaviour is really the "personality" of the fish ? Or it is due to the ones kept in captivity ?

Ok, I know that I would be the most proper person to check it out alive, but unfortunattely I don't dive ( yet ) :D



Thank's and regards,


Anildo

[Peter Schmiedel]

Originally posted by Anildo Matos
Now I have remembered one thing I've heard once. Is the fact that the Grammas lives motly as steady couples on the nature, so the strange behaviour they have in captivity are due to the separation of male and female. Has anybody knows something regarding it ?
Anildo [/B]

That is eacatly the reason for the fish "behaving" weird! What would you do, without a partner on a small lonley island ???? :D

[DensityMan]

I'm sure I'd act a bit 'strangely' as well, ;) but I also have heard that adding a second RG is not a feasable solution in a smaller aquarium (in most cases). :(

I am more worried about this particular behavior then any of its other 'quirks' because this ramming the corals and rocks is definately causing issues with its skin/scales. It looks awful the past three days. I'm not certain, but if I were to make a guess I'd say that the stings of the coral and shrooms are having an effect. Its skin/mucous-coating is 'cloudy' and she may be missing a few scales from scraping.

Aside from being weird, it now seems to be harming her. Any suggestions on what might be causing this?

Her tank-mate (a yellow wrasse) only shares her swimming space during the morning and early afternoon before he goes to bed in the sand. The wrasse looks beautiful and she is definately 'beta' to the Royal Gramma's 'Alpha-status.'

Water is still "in the green" = ammo 0, nitrites 0-ish, nitrates 10-15 and actually lowering through weekly water changes and plant/macro exportation, top-off is done through a constant drip of RO/DI w/kalk, it shows no signs of being underfed and in fact may be fed too often (but is always hungry). Food is a rotation of flake, Formula 1 or cyclop-eeze plus the occasional addition of a few 'sweetwater zooplankton.'

I am actually considering removing her before she gets any worse and donating her to someone elses tank or to the LFS.

[Peter Schmiedel]

As you mention that he is ramming also corals and rocks and that his skin shows already marks from that I draw the conclusion that this must have another reason.

I have never heard that a fish attacks rocks ??? If he attacks his mirror ot other fish this could be to the reasons mentioned earlier.

The behavior you now describe looks more like he has a skin parasit / infection which bothers him a lot. Thats why he ist scratching himslef. The yellow wrasse could still be fie due to his diffrent skin type (sorry dont know the correct english word).

[DensityMan]

Someone else at work suggested that it could be a manifestation of being cyanide caught... and now that has me thinking that there have been 'obvious' symptoms that could point to that as a cause.

It is still eating well it just looks bad (not an ectoparasite that I can see (and her skin looks better in te morning than at night after a day of ramming).

IF it is cyanide-related, can a fish make it through that or are these just the beginning signs that the fish is already dead, it just doesn't know yet?

[Peter Schmiedel]

I never heard about these signs as a cyanid indication. Do you have the impression he is really blind - meaning he does not see what he swims into? Does it still feed?

Fish getting blind could be indeed a damage on the central nerv system cause by any venom. I had that some month ago in one tank and never found the reason ??

[DensityMan]

No, his eyes are cloudy at the end of the day, but I get the impresssion he aims for the corals and rocks.

With the exception of yesterday when he didn't eat at all, he is usually the tanks heartiest appetite.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Not eating is an additional bad sign .... the rest of ths fish are Ok?

[DensityMan]

everyone else is spectacular... which is why this gramma is so confounding to me. /sigh

Still very active, but it turned it's nose up at live brine yesterday...

[g.mcclean]

I have been following this post for quite awhile. As I stated in an earlier post, we have seen equally odd behavior from our royal gramma. It also seemed to have "sand specks" that someone on another board said might be velvet disease. Ours seemed stressed by the fact that the cleaner shrimp invaded her cave and made it his "massage parlor". Our gramma also darted around frantically, did eat, but as time went on that stopped and she disappeared into her cave never to be seen again. The other fish seemed fine at the time, but we eventually had 2 green chromis just disappear also. We still have a flame angel, red sand hopper, and neon dotyback in the tank. To date they are fine. It is our must frustrating situation to date. No explanation to be found. All water parameters are fine.