New Mag9.5=Louder Overflow

[charley75]

Wow!!!! this thing is a huge step up from the Mag7.
I finally got my new pump installed Yesterday (after 4 back and forth trips to Lowes).
I thought my overflow was loud before, but now it's rediculous. When I try to insert my Stockman mod it slows the overflow down to where it can barely keep up. I've tried opening it up more but doesn't seem to help. I can throttle it back a bit but really don't want to. Any suggestions???
Thanks,
Charley

[Crevalle]

What in the world?! I just ordered a Mag9.5--now I'm a little concerned. Did you ever figure this out?

Do you think I will be able to "T" my 1" return, without reducing it to 3/4"? I asked you this once before, and you said you didn't reduce the size, but did you keep it at 1"?

[charley75]

I just kept all my return plumbing at 3/4". You should be able do what you're talking about with no problem though. I just like to keep everything simple. The noise issue isn't coming from the pump...so don't worry about your pump. It's the overflow that's loud which is a very common problem. Obviously the more water draining the louder it will be.
Charley

[Crevalle]

I was planning on expanding from 3/4" to 1" right out of the pump (someone told me this would be good to do). So, I've been looking for a true "Y" fitting, so I could keep the angles to 45-degrees (where the return splits into two), but I may have to go to the "T" just because I can't find a "Y" anywhere (I can't find a non-threaded 1" union either). AHHH.

[BlAcK_PeRcUlA]

Have you found your mag to introduce a lot more heat into the water? I got a mag 9.5 a couple months ago to replace a RIO 2500 and it increased my temp 2 degrees. That's a big problem here because it's hot I was already having heat problems...

[adminrxb]

Whats your drain pipe size in overflow. A 1" is usually capable of about 740G I think. This is lower than Mag 9.5 which I think can push 900G at 0 head. How much head are you pushing it up ?

A loud noise is usually because you are not pushing enough water and air starts making swirly noises in the PVC, flexible tubing or overflow drop. This is opposite to what you are explaining.

Take a straw and hold it unside the overflow drain. Slightly adjust up and down and see if the noise goes away. Make sure that you do not drop the straw in. This will give you a good start to identify the issue.

I have used Mag 9 and they are good pumps in my book. Some heat will be there but 2 degrees is kind of too much in my opinion. It may very well be correct but I was never checking that either. Pump is reliable and works good for the price.

[adminrxb]

1" flow is also reported at 600G on one post.

[Entropy]

I am using a Mag 9.5 as a return on my 90. It works fine. I have a 1 inch drain and a 3/4 inch drain. I used a durso on the 1 inch drain and it is very quiet (well quieter anyway).

[charley75]

I'm actually running my Mag external. I was already getting too much heat with the Mag7 so I figured I'd try it this way. As far as noise goes.....I think someone misunderstood me....no noise from pump, just loud overflow. Maybe I'll try a mini version of a Durso. I use a HOB overflow so I don't know if I can make small enough to fit. The Stockman seems to be a pain in the butt.
Charley

[niteshado]

Hi: I have a 90 gal with a mag 0.5 on the return. I use a 1" drain (1.5" durso) and .75" return to a tee. the overflow is built in. I can run the pump full throttle with out problems. There was minimal heat gain as the tank stays without a chiller at 80 degrees. check the parameter of the overflow flow rate compared the mag output. niteshado:)

[KRAZ4REEFS]

OK, I have a mag 9.5 and a mag 5 on my 90 gal. running full bore out a 1 1/2 drain, no stockman or durso. I was told this trick by another member a while ago and it worked, NO NOISE NOW!! In your overflow pipe to the sump, put a gate or ball valve in and close it slowly just till the noise stops, ( do not go any further than nessesary), whala, noise gone! Try it, you will be amazed. Throw the dursos and stockmans in the trash!

[KRAZ4REEFS]

ohh, and I almost forgot the best part, the reduced turbulance will also eliminate most of the noise of the water entering the sump and reduce the bubbles in the sump dramaticly!
Good luck
Scott

[bamboozler]

I'm running a Mag 12 wide open on a 75G AGA RR with Durso, with minimal noise.... the Durso has no problem keeping up. Drain is 1" PVC, return is 3/4" PVC. I have glass lids though, which do cut down on the noise. Tank is in the living room, only about 15' from the TV, and although you can hear it if you listen for it, most of the time I forget it's running.

Scott

[Crevalle]

I have pretty much the same setup as Charley75, although I haven't installed everything yet (I'm still gluing the baffles). Lifereef overflow, mag 9.5. However, if I am going to be using flexible vinyl tubing for the siphon, how can I install a valve? If I can't, what can I do to decrease the noise?

[adminrxb]

Valve for flexible tubing is available at most internet marine shops. A good place for this would be premium aquatics. They have barb connectors on both sides and works exactly as PVC valves.

I have read on previous post that putting a valve and reducing the drop is also a risk. Don't remember the actual thread. Please do research on RC.

I agree that turbulance reduction by the overflow will help.

Another old trick is to get another very small diameter vinyl tubing and start pushing it down the 1" overflow drain. The idea is to allow the air escape so that there is no gargling noise. You will eventually get to a depth in the drain where water will auto-balance itself with air. Not the cleanest method but I tested this last year and it did work. Make sure that the overflow end is out and secured so that you don't drop the tubing. You can also secure it by overflow back via silicone if needed as far as it is above water level and allows air to escape as needed.

[charley75]

Crevalle,
Putting a ball valve on a vinyl tubing drain is pretty simple. Just get a threaded ball valve and either put it directly on the bulkhead coming out of the overflow or you can put it further down your drain line if desired by using male threaded hose barbs on each side of the ball valve.
However, I too have read that it is not a good idea to reduce drain flow with a ball valve. A lot of people feel that the more things between the drain and sump, the higher your chances for a problem, which means flood.
I'll figure out something to silence it. For now it's pretty loud, but I'm already seeing the benefits of the increased flow and it's only been a day and a half. I have a small colt frag that has been pretty much doing nothing for the last 2 months. Well in the short time with the Mag9.5 it has VERY noticeably expanded.
I'll keep you posted on the noise. Who knows, since you are doing your plumbing different from me you may not even have this problem.
Charley

[jeffhaag]

Your stockman overflow is barely keeping up beause the vent hole in the top is too large. You actually need to either replace the cap and put a smaller hole in it, or fill it with something and make a new hole.

When I replumbed my mag 9.5, I took about 2' worth of head off it and it started flowing a lot more. It appeared my durso could barely keep up and the water level was very high. After a little research and experimentation, I replaced the top cap, and started with a new hole again. When all was said and done, the new hole I had drilled in the top of the vent cap was about 1/2 the size of the previous one.

You can verify this theory by putting your finger over the vent hole or even using a piece of tape. When you reduce the size of the hole, the water level should quickly drop down and eventually you make even get the wonderful "sucking" sound. That will confirm the problem is with the vent hole and not the drain plumbing. Then all you need to do is tinker around until you the right size hole that is the compromise between the water level too high and the water level too low in your overflow.

[Crevalle]

To anyone who may know: I am currently planning on increasing the PVC tubing to 1" diameter (from 3/4") about six inches off of my Mag9.5. Once the tubing reaches behind the tank, I will install a "T" and have dual 1" PVCs returning water to the tank. Will the 9.5 be able to keep up (I have a Lifereef overflow)?

[jeffhaag]

You might find that there isn't enough velocity coming from your returns that you want. When you go to a larger diameter pump, the flow stays the same, but the velocity is reduced so the water doesn't flow out as fast. I definately like the idea of the 1" return pipe since that is exactly what I did, but I necked it back down to 3/4" lockline where it enters the tank so I could get good velocity to push the current accross the tank.

I can't help you on the lifereef one, but you will probably end up with flow somewhere around the 600gph number.

[Crevalle]

Thanks Jeffhaag. The funny thing is, the 1" split to dual 3/4" return pipes is exactly what I wanted to do. But do you know what? I CANNOT find a 1"-3/4"-3/4" "T" splitter. Any ideas?

[jeffhaag]

I actually left mine at 1" since the T is gonna have the most head restriction. Once I got out to the "edge of the tank" with each return, the last piece I used was a 1" to 3/4" reducing elbow. To this I attached my lockline.

[Crevalle]

So, just so I understand what you have:

Mag 9.5

On the return, 3/4" increased to 1" right off the pump. Then, leading back to behind the tank, you "T" the 1" pipe (keeping the same 1" diameter) leading up to the top of the tank, where you then decrease the diameter to 3/4" for increased velocity.

Is this correct?

[jeffhaag]

Correct. My T and 1" lines off it are actually even with the top of the tank and then when I elbowed it down into the tank I used the reducing elbows. Thatway, everything under the surface of the water was black.

I'm sure you could do it several different ways, but without reducing it to 3/4" for the outlet, I felt there was no "force" behind the water. I know it was still moving the same volume, but after a few inches from the outlet, the current was gone. By reducing it, you could feel the current at the front of the tank 18" away. That's why most of the normal power heads have 3/8" or 1/2" outlets and also why the new Tnuze streams can move several 1000's of gph without the problems (2" outlet) typical of higher powered flows.

[Crevalle]

Thanks for the info--I'm going to do the same thing now. BTW, what do you think about using a check-valve union on the return? I'm using a 20g-long as a sump, and I'm slightly concerned about power outages, as we've had them before here.

The specific one I'm looking at is here:
http://marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=FT9155

[jeffhaag]

I've never been a fan of check valves. They always seem to fail at the worst time. I just drilled a little siphon break in the back of each of the returns (you only need one, but why not be redundant) just below the water surface. When you pumps turn off, the water level in your tank will drop until it is even with the bottom of the teeth on your overflow. Anytime the pump is running, the water level will be probably 1/4" - 1/2" higher (maybe more). I definately agree with the union though, I wish I did that and I'm too lazy to change it right now.

[Crevalle]

Ok, I'll avoid the check valve union, and opt for a standard union. One more question (actually, two):

1.) Can you tell me what the part is called that you attached to the end of your return pipes to decrease the diameter down to 3/4"?

2.) Can you tell me the name of the part that is installed directly onto the mag9.5 to increase it from 3/4" to 1", or if this is done in the tubing, what is the part called?

As I'm sure you know, I am new to PVC plumbing. You're a great help, though. Thanks.

[jeffhaag]

For both of your situations, you just need a "reducer bushing". It's just a matter of whether it is 3/4" x 1" or 1" x 3/4". You can also use reducing elbows as well. You can find examples of them at

http://www.marinedepot.com/a_ft_1.asp?CartId=#cp

In all honesty though, I would just go to Home Depot or Lowes. They have everything there and you can actually lay it out on the floor and fit your pieces together to make sure you have all your parts. It depends on the store, but the 3/4x1" reducer bushings and elbows are under either the 1" or the 3/4" PVC section depending on which location you are at. I have seen Home Depots and Lowes with them in either spot.

The reducing elbow is what I used on the ends and the reducing bushing is what I connected to my Mag pump.

[jeffhaag]

I know the sketch is pretty bad, but hopefully it should help you visualize how I have mine setup and what parts you need. "The section labeled pipe and elbows as needed is up to you to get it from your sump to above the tank. Remember though, you want as few elbows as you can use.

[3_high_low]

Charlie,

Is it gurgling-toilette like noise, or waterfall noise? If it's gurgling, I have a simple suggestion for you that might help. The pipe that carries the water down to the sump should not be submerged more than an inch or two. If it is too far underwater air will likely travel back up the pipe instead of out the bottom and into the sump. I've recently shortened this pipe on my system and it eliminated some irritating gurgling noises. If that doesn't help I have another idea.:)

If it's waterfall noise then simply adjust your standpipe such that the water level is raised in the overflow compartment.

[Crevalle]

Jeff, that drawing was quite helpful--thanks. That's some important info for a plumbing "beginner." BTW, I did have another question regarding the lockline section: is there any particular reason that this section (including the 1" slip x 3/4" FPT) is threaded, versus entirely slip? Just curious if it matters either way.

BTW: you just prevented me from making a seemingly crucial mistake. I was planning on using a "T" on the return just above the sump, instead of at main tank surface level. In retrospect, I realize that would have cut the pumps flow speed considerably (having to pump dual 1" pvc pipes vertically for three feet).

[charley75]

Jeff,
How small of a hole did you drill in the top? I have a bunch of extra caps for experimenting.
Mark,
I have never heard that before, but I'll try it, because my return line is probably about 5 or 6 inches under water.
Thanks for the pointers guys,
Charley

[charley75]

Any other fresh ideas?

[3_high_low]

Charlie,

Another thing to try: lower a long piece of airline down into the drain pipe. Once it is all the way down slowly pull it back up. As you pull it up you will hear the sound made by the water rushing through the overflow change, hopefully it will become quiet at some point:). Once it is quiet just fasten the airline to something such that it remains in the same position. This has worked well for me on occasion, but sometimes it made no difference. BTW, is your drain pipe a straight shot to the sump?

[charley75]

I've tried the airline before and that didn't seem to make a difference. I'm gonna try shortening the drain line so that less is submerged first. I'll try ro do that tonight hopefully.
Charley

[jeffhaag]

Crevalle-
The main reason I used threaded is becuase that is what the adaptor for the lockline was. I'm not sure if you can get slip adaptors for lockline, but eitherway, you need an adaptor since the lockline will not connect directly to PVC. You should be able to find the adaptors at the same place you get the lockline. If I didn't use the lockline, I would have just used a slip elbow though instead. Also, a lot of people use flex pvc to connect from the sump to the top in order to eliminate vibration and give you a little "wiggle" room as you run your line. In my case, I actually used spa flex from my Mag pump to the union there so it was easier to remove the pump for cleaning adn also to prevent any vibration from travelling.

charley75-
I literally started with the smallest drill bit in my set and then started working my way up in size until I got the correct one I wanted. It's all dependent on flow rate and even how close the bottom of the drain is to the water surface in your sump. Increase sizes slowly and eventually you will typically find on which will make the water level start rising and falling a little bit in the overflow chambers. That means your real close to the size. Then, I just used the same bit again other then "jiggle" the drill around to make the hole ever so larger. If it is still rising a falling, you could always go up one more drill bit size, but it is easy to overdrill the hole. Then you start again. On the good side though, then you'll know what size hole you need (one smaller then you just used). :rollface:

[3_high_low]

Charlie,

That sounds like good advice that Jeff has given you. More info on this topic can be found on Rich Durso's web site:

http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/construct-standpipe.htm

Good luck!

[charley75]

Thanks again guys...I wish I would have read that a long time ago. Even with the Mag7 I could never get it very quiet. The whole time I have had my drain line submerged almost to the bottom of the sump. I'm anxious to get home tonight and do some adjusting. Right now it's rediculous.
Charley

[charley75]

So this is what a quiet overflow sounds like!!!!
I don't have to turn the TV up full blast anymore!!!
Well, I got home and chopped my drain line so that only 1-2 inches was submerged.
I then tried a new Stockman Mod with a smaller hole in cap, which didn't really help. I did however put my finger over the hole to where maybe a crack was exposed and it got quiet.
At that point I was out of caps and I don't have a smaller drill anyway.
So I figured just for grins I'd try the old airline trick (which NEVER worked before).
HOLY COW!!!!...my sump fan is louder now.
I'm not touchin a thing to mess this up.
Thanks for the tips.
Charley