Fishroom Construction Help Needed

[nanonano]

I got the thumbs up from the boss for a fishroom in the basement:D . The catch is, I have to build one. Is there anyone out there know how to divide part of the basement and turn it in to a fishroom? I already ran some wires into the area (not connected). It will have three 20amps circuits when the room is complete.
Room size about 10'x25' I hope its big enough.
Any help or ideas would be appreciated. I have some cold Sammys in thre fridg
:D :D

Richard

[Scuba_Dave]

My fish room plan: (I know there are more experienced people out there) my .02

Separate subpanel, which will be connected to a generator which will auto start. Plenty of GFCI outlets, maybe some hard wired timers.

Floor will be tiled (or possibly vinyl that will extend up each wall), with a built in drain (too small for fish) and/or sump pump. Edge of floors near walls will have plastic that will extend up onto each wall. Thus any flooding will be contained in room. Lighting for room - 4' NO flour bulbs from HD 6500k.

Wood - pressure treated? Footer at least. Not sure if you can use pressure treated inside a house - due to chemicals in wood.
Maybe 2x6 in case tanks will be attached to walls?

Exhaust vent(s) to outside for Heat/humidity. Built - in AC.
Dehumidifier - or your floorjoists may rot (depends upon what you have in room for tanks/sumps).

QT tank - currently I have a 20g, which would be too small for a tang. Possibly pu a 55 which could be filled from system, then drained afterwards. Use 20 for short term QT, 55 for long term - bigger fish.

Calcium drip - automated to start at night. Big enough jug to last 2 weeks (for vacations).

Door - bigger is better, double doors or a 36" door.

Window - to rest of basement. Might as well put any light running to good use.

Dual return pump setup (or online spare). Allows the "uninformed" to easily start a 2nd pump & shut down 1st.

Calculate load & outlets needed, and then 2x lol.
10x25 is a good size.

Wall cabinets - to store all the cr@p out of site (yeah right!)

Built in sink w/aclimation bench setup (and HD NO lights)

Water storage containers - RO/DI setup. Salt water storage.
Automated top off. Make water changes as easy as possible(pump out, pump in). I like having to put the pump in to pump out. A built in drain at some point will be left draining - bad.
"Bad" water will be stored & pumped as needed to water garden/lawn.

Computer monitoring station w/web page cams. Great for peace of mind from work. Also someone else could point camera at "x" and say "what the %$(&% do I do?". Will also track temp, pH, etc.

and some plants - they love moisture

plus?

Now I just need to hit the lottery

[tstone]

Richard
Dave has some great ideas.

You can and should use preasure treated for the sill plate.

Get some Rubber roof membrane to put around the edges to contain floods and install a drain.

Install a sink with cabinets with counter tops for work space and storage.

An electrical subpanel would be great although three 20 amp circuts will be sufficent.

[RobboT]

Not sure what the quality of this will be but . . . heres my rough plan for my new tank (see other threads about the whacko who bought a broken 400g acrylic tank). Im still playing around with it but I love the idea of having the sump/refugium and a separate frag tank on the other side of the wall where it wont be seen or heard.



http://home.comcast.net/~rtess/200gtankplans.JPG

[Scuba_Dave]

Looks good. My thought is that any outlets in the fish room should be GFCI. I think about 4' of counter space w/drip bottles above would be great for aclimation. You do need a drawing program to place items & see how much room you will have left.
Or at a min tape it out on the floor w/masking tape.

[tstone]

Rob
excelent plan. I would change one thing, flip the table and the ro/di unit so your water storage and changing system is next to the sump. (if theres room in that spot)

Might be a good idea to try and keep your sink and such away from the existing electric panel and locate your sub panel away from the water also.

[RobboT]

Thanks Marvin, I have been thinking alot about the issues of plumbing and electrical on the same wall and that was why I moved the new subpanel to the other but you're probably right. I can still put a bank of outlets on the Tank wall to minimize cord lengths.

Nanonano - not trying to hijack your thread here just thought that my plan might help you with some ideas and if people criticize my plan it may help you as well. I would also recommend that if possible you do a plan yourself and post it up here since it helps people see what you're thinking. I used CAD but I've seen wonderful drawings come from MS Paint for those who dont have CAD. It just takes a little more work.

For a 10 x 25 space you might want to make it two rooms. One viewing room and a "closet" for all the equipment. Depending on the particular layout I would make the closet 10 x 10 and the tank room 10 x 15. Actually the space above is about 10 x 20.

[nanonano]

Thanks guys, those are some intense plans. I'm not even at that point yet as where all the tanks and equipment will be located. I was going to frame the walls first and then do the electricals. I'm guessing the longer section of the room will be where the tanks and equipment will be located.
I will not have any pluming in that room the sink and RO filter is on the otherside of the basement.
Did you guys build the fishroom yourself? If so I can use some pointers. Marvin already gave me some great ideas.
I'm going to save Rob and Dave's plans. Keep them coming.

Richard

[tstone]

Rob et all
If you have to pull a permit for your fish room you will have to have at least 3 feet in front of any electrical panel free of obstruction in order to have access to it for service.
This is a code issue.

You should plan on being able to access all your plumbing such as pumps, valves and such and electrical items like controllers, banks of outlets etc.

Try to think about actualy working with all your equipment and planing ahead for the inevitable.

Not that accidents and emergencies ever happen in a fish room.

Richard now is the time to plan even if you don't have the money for the "extras" right now you will probably add them at some point.

[seasno]

Great Ideas guys....I am also in the process of planning my wet room for a 225 installation. My tank will be built into a wall with the wet room behind it. Most of the tank will actually be in the wet room which will make for easy access with both plumbing and maint.

My 2 cents? Marvin is right about the panels and their vicinity to water...in addition to the clearance issues....the code guys really frown on having a electrical source (panel or sub panel) anywhere near water (even RODI water). Actually with a little planning and then adding Dave's rule about doubling capacity there really isn't any advantage to having the sub panel in the corrosive atmosphere of the fish room.

PT lumber is a definate for the plate or anywhere lumber will contact a concrete surface, 2 x 4s are fine for walls unless you need additional depth for clearance for plumbing lines.

10 x 25 should be plenty of room for most anything you would want to do, I am working with about 1/3 less than that and hope to include stations for phyto, rotifers, and brine shrimp cultures also.

Richard: Framingham is a haul for me to travel but I do get down to Quincy every couple of weeks for work, maybe I could loop back that way if you were stuck for pointers.

Rob: Nice plan!

[engagg]

ScubaDave, are you planning on using your waste saltwater for watering your lawn/garden? I am not trying to start anything, I just thought that salt and lawns did not mix.

Greg

[Scuba_Dave]

No, by "bad" water I mean what my RO/DI unit rejects. Most will be used for Washing machine (as I do now), but any excess will be used for watering garden (waste not want not).

I think maybe (considering Tstones comment), that my subpanel will be located outside of the fishroom (outside wall of fish room).

[engagg]

ScubaDave, how are you using the waste RO/DI for your washing machine?

Greg

[engagg]

Another idea for a waterproof flooring would be a poured epoxy floor. The base can go right up the side and you would be able to contain as much water as needed.

Greg

[Scuba_Dave]

The waste output goes right into the washer (instead of a drain). I only have a total of 90g, so I don't have alot. I do laundry thru the week as I make water.
New house I will have a waste barrel to store "bad" water for plants/garden etc.

[RobboT]

Originally posted by tstone
Rob et all
If you have to pull a permit for your fish room you will have to have at least 3 feet in front of any electrical panel free of obstruction in order to have access to it for service.
This is a code issue.

You should plan on being able to access all your plumbing such as pumps, valves and such and electrical items like controllers, banks of outlets etc.

Try to think about actualy working with all your equipment and planing ahead for the inevitable.

Not that accidents and emergencies ever happen in a fish room.

Richard now is the time to plan even if you don't have the money for the "extras" right now you will probably add them at some point.

What's a permit? :lol: (muttered under breath . . . 48" deep footings . . . measuring the depths of friggin footings before I pour concrete . . . fractured bedrock . . . damn useless auger . . . what was I thinking)

Good final point there Marvin. Planning for the future is always a good general rule to follow.

[RobboT]

Originally posted by Scuba_Dave
You do need a drawing program to place items & see how much room you will have left.

This is the beauty of CAD. You can draw the walls and equipment to scale and then pick em up and move them around to see what fits where. This is much better than the wife standing there saying "I don't like that couch there, move it over here" and couches are lighter than tanks!

Thanks for the plan compliments everyone.

[Scuba_Dave]

Geez, if I have to plane for the future, then at the rate I am going I better just water proof the basement from the inside. cause I'm gonna be filling it in a year or 2 :)

[nanonano]

Hey seasno where thanks for the offer. Those ideas are great keep it comming. The panel on the outside wall gets:thumbsup: :thumbsup:. Maybe I can host a small how to build a fishroom project.

I'll take Marvins advice and buy a book on building wall.

I was thinking of using metal beams instead of wood what do you guys think? They'er alot straighter. Also instead of drywall how about cement board (blue board) for the inside bottom section of the wall.

Richard:

[Scuba_Dave]

Cement board I think would be great for bottom edge. I did this in my bathroom (floor & shower wall) when I tiled. Floor & shower walls are cement board. Greenboard would be a min. Another great idea, what a think tank we have.

Hmmmmm....stucco room? :lol:

Yeah I was thinking maybe of tiling. I agree on the metal studding - long term won't mix well with saltwater

[RobboT]

Metal and salt water dont mix IMHO and in my experience they turn out no straighter than woods walls. Wood is actually easier to "coerce" into being straight IMO. :D

I don't think cement board would work, it's designed for tile not plaster and paint so you'll probably have a hard time finishing it. Green Board (aka MR Board) is probably a decent idea (not to be a smartass but Blue Board is for plastering). Keep in mind though, that green board is moisture resistant not waterproof.

[RobboT]

Also, and Marvin probably knows more about this than I, I was always told that MR Board needs additional support for ceilings so the ceiling should be strapped 12"OC vs strapped 16"OC or attaching directly to joists.

[engagg]

Whatever you decide to use for walls, ceilings and even wood frames for tanks etc. should be coated with a good quality waterbased epoxy. You may even want to look into a high solids marine type epoxy if there is not going to be a lot of ventilation, this will help all surfaces to last a lot longer.

[seasno]

Richard:

I am going to have to pick my book up from you when it comes in (I think) so maybe we could chat more about your fishroom then.

A few more thoughts?

I would think installing an exhust vent in the room and/or utilizing a de-humidifier (during summer months) would take care of most of the moisture issues, but I would probably still go with the MR board...if you are really worried about long term exposure on the wood framing put up a 6 mil poly vapor barrier before installing the MR board. Personally I think it is a little overkill...if you have so much moisture that it penetrates the MR board you will have far bigger issues to worry about than your stud walls. :eek1:

Another option for a wall finish may be to consider FRP...it is a plastic ridgid sheeting that contact cements onto a plywood surface. Premade moldings or trim is used at all of the joints, so the installation isn't that difficult. It is used often in comercial kitchens, walk in coolers, or other "wet" locations where you also be concerned about cleaning issues. Maybe a little more money than the drywall option, but a much more durable surface for the longterm.

HTH,
Craig

[nanonano]

Thanks Craig, I'll let you when the books arrive.

Marvin told me about a humidity sensor we can hook up to an exhust fan and turns the fan on when certain level is reach.

Iwas only thinking of using the MR board on the bottom section of the wall in case of flooding and plaster board for the rest of the room. But only if they are the same thickness.

Richard