Help my clown is dying

[aprincex2]

I have a tomato clown for about 10 days. I have never seen it eat though I've provided plenty of variety the LFS told me they eat when no on is around . MY water parameters where perfect 2 days ago when I tested.

[trevray2]

Do you have an anenome? I know there are some types of clown (not many) that REQUIRE an anemone. Also, I do think 20 gallons is a bit small for a reef tank; if you have any changes in the small tank it'll be much worse than having it in a big tank.

[koj11]

I assume your tank was cycled completely before you added your clown, yes? It is very common for fish to not eat for a few days when acclimating to a new home. This is normal and not really reason for concern unless it gets to be an extended period of time or he starts to look unhealthy. As far as eating when nobody is around, that's incorrect. My clown zips right up to the front of the tank when he sees me come in the room cause he thinks I'm gonna feed him, then sticks his little snout out of the water to get food when I do. You might try different types of foods to get him going. Generally clowns aren't very picky about what they eat and variety is a good idea anyways. Mine eats flake, mysis, brine, bloodworms, pellets, just about anything I put in there. HTH

[aprincex2]

no I don't have an anenome the lfs said a tomato didn't require one. I have a much larger tank warming up. I didn't realize how much i was going to love this when I set up. So I have a small population now.

[aprincex2]

my tank was completely cycled. It's breathing is looking labored. but puting an air stone in has not helped

[koj11]

Small is good, you don't want to go too fast. You don't need an anenome for your clown. Try the different types of food. You might also try soaking some brine or mysis shrimp in some garlic or some selcon. Is it possible he is sick and that's why he hasn't eaten yet? I spaced it and didn't see in my first response that it had been 10 days. That is a long time in my opinion. Does he look healthy?

[Fizz71]

Originally posted by aprincex2
the LFS told me they eat when no on is around

...Yeah...and cats will do the dishes for you when you're not home. Sounds like a load of BS if you ask me.

Anyway...what are you parameters? Any physical signs of stress on the clown?

If he eats when nobody is around...how does he know? Anyway..I hate to say it, but he might be doomed if he's never eaten before and the LFS was yanking your chain for a sale. Is there anything else in the tank that could be bothering him?

--Fizz

[trevray2]

When buying it in the store...did you make sure it was looking well (fins intact, no gill problems...etc. ...)

[Addicted Reefer]

The LFS is full of crap. Between me and my friends we have had tons of different clown species they all eat in front of anyone. Some are shy and take awhile to adjust but 10 days is not a good sign mine will not go a day. They have all fed the first day. I would try selcon or garlic and soak the food. What have you been trying to get it to eat?From know on always ask the LFS hopefully a different one to let you see it eat before you buy it.

Originally posted by aprincex2
I have a tomato clown for about 10 days. I have never seen it eat though I've provided plenty of variety the LFS told me they eat when no on is around . MY water parameters where perfect 2 days ago when I tested.

[Addicted Reefer]

Holly responses. There was not one when i started writing. Do you know how long the fish was at the LFS? Ammonia build up from shipping can burn lungs, could have been caught using cyanide or ich also attacks the lungs first. Very hard to tell but I would re check parameters just to be sure.

[aprincex2]

I have 2 damsels a feather duster, turbo snails, hermits and LR - I am not sure how long it was at the lfs at least a week because I watched it. It seemed healthy and active. It has not been right since I bought it. Hiding and not eating No signs of ich. PH and ammonia and nitrate/nitrite levels all perfect.

[Fizz71]

Originally posted by Addicted Reefer
Holly responses. There was not one when i started writing. Do you know how long the fish was at the LFS?

You have to type faster.... :)

One of my questions got answered before I asked too, so I know how you feel.

I'd definetely want to run more tests on paramaters. Maybe even take some water to the guy that sold you the fish and see if he'll test for you too.

Unfortuntetly, I've seen fish starve to death from not taking to eating in captivity. The LFS I used to deal with when I was in NJ wouldn't sell a fish until it ate, and it's one of the reasons I generally don't MO fish. I know you didn't MO this guy..I'm just saying..some fish just won't eat once they've been captured and I know what LFSs I can trust.

Anyway...Other stuff I was going to ask have been asked, so I won't ask again...

You said you have an airstone and it didn't help..how long has it been in? I'm just curious what kind of air exchange you were getting before..I'm figuring not much of a sump if any on a 20?!

Keep an eye on the guy, I hope he pulls through..others have already said what I'd try (selcon soaked food)

--Fizz

[trevray2]

Damsels??? That is probbably your problem. Damsels are very aggresive, small fish. And confined in a twenty gallon? I would suggest you NEVER again trust that lfs...

[Fizz71]

Originally posted by aprincex2
I have 2 damsels

Evil, evil, evil...do they seem to bug him at all? You basically now have 3 damsels in that tank (clowns are damsels) and some damsels can be VERY territorial.

How much LR?

--Fizz

[aprincex2]

I don't mean to be difficult....but....what good is selcon seaked food if it won't eat. This is so hard. I didn't think I could get attached to a fish. Do reefer wannabes cry?????

[aprincex2]

20 lbs of lr. Also, the damsels don't attack it. they are more upset that the shrimp I added after them took up residence in their favorite hole in one of the rocks. the air stone has been in since this morning when i discovered this mess. I HATE my lfs.

[Fizz71]

Selcon could make the food more appealing.

--Fizz

[aprincex2]

Oh thanks fizz. the lfs opens at 10am i'll be there if this poor thing is still hanging in there by then.

[Fizz71]

I dunno..I think I'd lean towards the stress of 3 damsels. I don't suppose you have another tank to quarantine him huh?

20lbs of LR is ok..I like the 1.5lbs per gallon theory, but if you ammonia and nitrite are still 0 after 10 days, then that's not your problem.

As for the airstone...I asked that question before you mentioned having 2 damels..if they're breathing OK..I'd say air exchange is ok.

Even if they don't chase him, they could be bothering him...does he even seem to be interested in eating? Does food get to him , or does he hide when you feed...in other words..is he ignoring food that's right in front of his face.

I don't know if it's really a good idea at this point, but re-arranging your rock can help break territories...if that's even the issue. It's tough to say.

--Fizz

[Fizz71]

Originally posted by aprincex2
Oh thanks fizz. the lfs opens at 10am i'll be there if this poor thing is still hanging in there by then.

Take a baggie of water with you...make the guy work for more of your business. :)

[aprincex2]

I've seen food hit him in the nose and he doesn't eat it. Doesn't even appear interested. I know better now so don't everyone scream at me...but the lfs told me that damsels were a must in the cycling of a tank. It has been 15 years since I've had salt water tanks and I remembered doing that then so in when the damsels.

[aprincex2]

I've seen food hit him in the nose and he doesn't eat it. Doesn't even appear interested. I know better now so don't everyone scream at me...but the lfs told me that damsels were a must in the cycling of a tank. It has been 15 years since I've had salt water tanks and I remembered doing that then so in when the damsels.

[Fizz71]

Originally posted by aprincex2
I've seen food hit him in the nose and he doesn't eat it. Doesn't even appear interested. I know better now so don't everyone scream at me...but the lfs told me that damsels were a must in the cycling of a tank. It has been 15 years since I've had salt water tanks and I remembered doing that then so in when the damsels.

CYCLING WITH DAMSELS...OH MY GOD!!! NO!!!

Just kidding..I did it twice before I knew better. :)

Well atleast you know he can get to the food, but the damsels COULD still be stressing him to not eat. Try the selcon and cross your fingers. Unless you're willing to remove him and return him to the LFS to see if he starts eating again, I don't think there's much more you can do except wait.

--Fizz

[aprincex2]

thanks again. I have seen the damsels shaking their rear in his face. Maybe I should return the damsels..lol. I am leaving the house now and plan to be at the lfs when they unlock the door. wish me luck.

[Addicted Reefer]

hey fizz i am working on the typing but could you just slow down a little:D

At least it is good advice being typed fast. I also think the damsels could be effecting the eating behavior of the clown. You are not there all the time watching so as the saying goes $ hit happens. The whole anemone fish family and there cousins can be pains. I had a tomato attacking a jawfish? Came all the way across a 4 foot tank to mess with him everytime food was in the tank. Could not figure it out so out goes the tomato. Since like everyone you are going to be limited to the amount of fish you can keep by the size of the tank I personally would remove the damsels. I would also look at what your feeding. Flake food or pellets may not look good after you have been eating live food if it was caught in the wild.

Anyway good luck with your clown hope it works out:rollface:

[Scuba_Dave]

I would return the damsels. I think all of us newbies cycled w/damsels at one time, or have done something else that would horrify us now. Good luck. Keep asking questions, the truth is out here...not necessarily out there (LFS)..;)

I have 2 Tomato clowns (have had for 3 years) and they are great. The bigger clown doesn't like me in HIS tank & attacks my hand almost every time I am in the tank. He is fearless.

[aprincex2]

I have returned from the lfs and the clown is dead. :( The lfs didn't carry selcon, had never heard of it, sold me metafix. but, it is too late. I feel so bad. I don't know what to do now. If I am doing something wrong I don't want to inflict myself on another fish. My long term goal for the tank was anenomes with a pair of clowns. I can't believe I feel so sad. Thanks for all the great advice. I wish you all worked at my lfs.

[man1410]

Sorry for your loss.

If you put another clown fish, I would suggest percula. Maybe a pair and no other fish etc. Tomato clown can be diggers and spoil your tank. 20 G tank is too small for an anemone or any more than two small fish .....in my opinion!

Goodluck with the tank.

[Scuba_Dave]

So sorry to hear that. Even tho my Tomato digs & tries to chase me out of tank, he's great. I have a 30g w/2 gold bar clowns - also a digger.
Don't be too hard on yourself, we all learn from our mistakes. And in some case the fish was destined not too make it. Maybe cyanide..who knows.

[aprincex2]

thanks I have a 40 gl warming up...it is really the largest I have room for at this time... hummmm... maybe I can get my children to leave home...LOL. My plan was to wait till I am sure the new lr is cured and the water is great then do a 50% water change in the 40 with the water in my 20 and move the lr and animals all at once. This was suggested by the lfs and after today I am not sure what to believe from them. How does that sound? I know I will be limited in what I can have. But I've always wanted a clown pair and an anenome.

[Fizz71]

Originally posted by aprincex2
thanks I have a 40 gl warming up...it is really the largest I have room for at this time... hummmm... maybe I can get my children to leave home...LOL. My plan was to wait till I am sure the new lr is cured and the water is great then do a 50% water change in the 40 with the water in my 20 and move the lr and animals all at once. This was suggested by the lfs and after today I am not sure what to believe from them. How does that sound? I know I will be limited in what I can have. But I've always wanted a clown pair and an anenome.

Sorry about your loss, I doubt you did anything wrong so don't beat yourself up on it.

Your change-over plan doesn't sound TOO bad, but personally I'd take my time with a drip. Plus you have to figure out how to get things out of the 20 without stirring up a sh*t storm if you have sand. I'd probably just let the new tank cycle, then acclimate the fish in bucket like you normally would since you really don't have TOO much for a bad bi-load spike. I would use some of your current tank water like the LFS said.

If your plan is clowns and an anemone in a 40, I'd ditch the damsels unless you REALLY REALLY like them. I kept ONE of my cylcing damsels...actually only one survived..but it was a 75g. And I don't think it was the cycle that killed my other damsel...it was the demon damsel himself. He never bothered anybody again, so I let him live in the tank. I actually had him until the day I broke down the tank...it was sad to have to sell him.

Anyway..I also assume you know to wait about a year for the anemone right? And you better have good lighting, they can be picky. I had two skunk clowns living in my BT under VHO lighting for a few years (before I broke it down).

I'm actually looking at the same plan as you for my new tank, and I'm plainning on getting a pair of captive-bred ocellaris clowns so I know they're going to eat in captivity! If you like that type of clown, look at the captive bred ones..they tend to do better.

Good luck, and keep pressing forward...eventually you'll be VERY happy with your tank.

--Fizz

[aprincex2]

thanks fizz...the damsels are as good as out of here! What is compatible with a pair of clowns and an anenome in a 40. If I can only have those three things maybe I need to rethink. The tank is a 36" long and I don't want it to look empty

[sls]

you could also try soaking the food in garlic for about 10 min before feeding. sometimes this will trigger a feeding response. also try putting the damsels in a fish breeder for a couple days so they cant bother it. if it eats and comes out of hiding then you know the culprit.

[Fizz71]

You have alot of choices, actually. Just stick with the smaller species...some of my personal favorites are:

Firefish Goby or Purple Firefish..Skitsy, and can be jumpers, but cool to watch.
Blackcap Basslet
Royal Basslet
Bicolor Pseudochromis
Blue-Green Chromis

..and a bunch of others that would probably be OK, but I won't recommend something I haven't owned personally so you'll have to ask others. :)

A 40 isn't THAT small, I'd certainly say 3 fish are NOT too much. The problem is the fish you DO have are very territorial and known to be mean.

You may want to start a new thread, something like "help me stock my 40g" or something to that extent and I'll think you'll get some great advice to folks in it much longer than I. I've never had a successful tank under 75g, so you might want to talk to folks who have the same setup as you do.

I also would say that your problem with the clown was not 100% the fault of the damsels..it could also just be that the poor fish just couldn't handle all of the stress from ocean to net to box to tank to bag to tank..and so on. You'll never know.

--Fizz

[Fizz71]

In case you didn't see it.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=214061

--Fizz