Aquascape Idea

[reefRook]

I have a 24" deep tank (I know they come much deeper) and I want to utilize as much of the water column as possible. I've posted this in the DIY area for two reasons. One to find out if anyone else has tried this idea, and two to see if it is a good or bad idea, and get any feedback in both areas.

I'm thinking about getting two pieces of plastic or acrylic sheets that will just fit the back two inside walls of my tank. I would then glue or cement some rocks to the plastic or acrylic toward the middle and the top of the sheets. Then attach the sheets to the back inside of the tank. I have not decided if this would be a permanent attachment or one that I could change later. I like the idea of giving myself the options to change it later. Form there I would be able to use those rocks to help build a higher live rock bed. I would be able to stack the live rock against and on top of the rocks attached to the walls. This should give me a more stable rock structure, and would remove the chance of scratching the tank glass totally.

I'm attaching a really BAD drawing I've done. Please do not look at the quality of the drawing, but rather the idea. :)

Any feedback?

[reefRook]

Oops I guess I need to add the picture. :)

[Entropy]

I don't see the advantage of adding a glass panel to do this. You can just as easily glue the rock right to the back of your tank with what ever you were going to use to glue glass panel with. It will still be removable (just pop it off and scrap it down with a razor). I just think you are adding a panel for nothing. If you use a good amount of glue the rocks wont actually touch the glass so there will be no scratches anyway.

Anyway if you do decide to do this, take pictures. :D It may be the next best thing since sliced bread....

[reefRook]

Not that it matters a lot, because I get your point, but I would not use glass, I'd probably use plastic or acrylic. I guess you are right, I could just glue them, to the glass, given I use something that is not permanent for the glue.

I have not given up on the added sheet, not sure why yet, but any other input from others.

And Entropy, any feedback on if the idea of gluing the rocks to any vertical surface? It is a hair brain idea? Or do you see any value?

[igoRluse]

I don't want to go stealing your credit for the idea here, but I have in fact been thinking of this for quite some time. I have a tank only 15" wide but 24" tall, so I need to find a way to get the rock in there quite vertically. I really like the large sand bed so my idea was to go even a step further and build a kind of rock wall with the rocks up top coming out more then those down the bottom. The idea would be to copy the vertical reef environment seen on wall dives. The problem here will be finding enough spots to put the coral frags with them getting enough light. Some species of coral will be quite happy to grow horizontally or even upside down, but many others won't.

If you actually do this, make sure you post your experience here for us all to profit from.

[AJ_77]

A hobbyist nearby had a larger tank (60x24x30", I think) with LR stacked up 3 sides. At the base there were sometimes 2 rocks as a foundation, but for the most part it looked like he glued rock upon rock, vertically.

It looked really good, like a 3-sided reef wall. Had a bit of a promontory in the middle, lots of caves and swim-throughs, and some rock "islands" in the open areas, on the floor.

Wish I had some pics, but he had an electrical fire and lost the tank. It was very creative and impressive - great visual impact.

[Fliger]

What type of glue would you use for this? What would hold up to the weight of the rocks + reefsafe.

On this thread there is a pic on the first page by Niven which shows an aquascape I'm trying to emulate. Glue would be a must.

Thanks.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181920&highlight=japanese

[H20ENG]

You could drill some holes through the sheet in strategic locations, and zip tie the live rock to the sheet. Coralline algae will cover it in a few months, or you could use epoxy putty, stick it over thezip ties, and push coral sand into the putty. I think this is your best bet. If you try to glue the rock on, you'll use a ton trying to hold the irregular shapes to the flat sheet. The zip ties are strong enough for you to stack other rocks against the tied ones.
One other thing. I'd alsodevise a way to really attach the sheet to the tank wall. Silicone may work, but an attached "hook" to hang over the back would be simple and never fail.
I would not glue the rock directly to the tank. You'll be sorry later, I'm afraid.
HTH
Chris
PS, Wait and see all the cool stuff that will live between the sheets of glass!

[sharkdude]

Great idea.

I tried searching but the search function is temporarily down, but I replied a while ago to another post suggesting something similar.

Basically, like H20Eng suggested, zip tied rock chunks to a removable sheet of acrylic or eggcrate placed against back wall or hanging from tank top, would work well and achieve the effect of rock work higher in the water column.

Your side view picture seems to be a waste of effort though. If thats what you are going for, why not just stack rock and bond to each other up the back glass? No worries over scratches to back anyways.

[JazzMan]

Originally posted by H20ENG
You could drill some holes through the sheet in strategic locations, and zip tie the live rock to the sheet. Coralline algae will cover it in a few months, or you could use epoxy putty, stick it over thezip ties, and push coral sand into the putty. I think this is your best bet. If you try to glue the rock on, you'll use a ton trying to hold the irregular shapes to the flat sheet. The zip ties are strong enough for you to stack other rocks against the tied ones.


Excellent Idea.

[prawngoby]

You could drill some holes through the sheet in strategic locations, and zip tie the live rock to the sheet. Coralline algae will cover it in a few months, or you could use epoxy putty, stick it over thezip ties, and push coral sand into the putty. I think this is your best bet. If you try to glue the rock on, you'll use a ton trying to hold the irregular shapes to the flat sheet. The zip ties are strong enough for you to stack other rocks against the tied ones.

Or you could try using egg crate, and you wouldn't need to drill anything, plus you could get better water flow

[Robbob29]

I am pretty new here so this might be a dumb question

This was the first time I noticed it but why are all the A's and S's blocked out on all those posts? Are we in such a politicaly correct forum that we can't even spell out the word G L A S S?

Just had to comment

Robbob

[reefRook]

H20ENG: The zip ties are a GOOD idea... the power of a community :) ...

Regarding the issue of securing the sheets of acrylic to the back of the tank, I was not sure how I would do this. I did think about the "hook" idea. The down sides are that I have a lip on the tank, and I have a gl*** top for most of it that I do not want to cut of mess with. Not sure the hook idea would work for my tank. The idea of the sheet falling forward is definitely a bad one. Any idea on how to secure the sheets to the wall given my restraints.

sharkdude, my side view was totally just to show the idea, not to show how I would stack them. But in either case, I don't even want to scratch the back gl*** if I can help it.

Couple of people have mentioned egg crate. I guess I don't really know what it is. Any pictures I can look at?

[H20ENG]

Egg crate is the 1/2" square holed lighting diffuser material. It comes in 2 x4 foot sheets in black, translucent or chrome ( dont use chrome in the tank, even though it will make it go faster:D ).
If it were me, I'd use black acrylic. Egg crate will be U-G-L-Y even if you use black.
You could zip tie base rock to the sheet and silicone the sheet in while everything was dry. If you use live rock, drain the tank down about halfway, dry and clean the back wall really well and silicone just the top half of the sheet in. Be sure to scuff the back of the acrylic with 80 grit paper first. The silicone will hold better.
Silicone is not guaranteed to hold the acrylic to glass forever. MANY threads noting this. This is why I suggested the hooks.
Try to get some DOW 795, or 3M marine adhesive sealant. This stuff is sticky!! And you can get it off the glass later if need be.
Another thing, be sure you get all plastic zip ties. Some of the heavy duty ones have metal catches in the head.
Good times!
Chris

[H20ENG]

GLASS TANK, GLASS TANK, GLASS TANK!!!:D :D

[H20ENG]

glass tank?

[H20ENG]

Hmm, now I look dumb. They fixed it.:rolleyes:

[H20ENG]

reefRook,
Where do you live in bay area?

[reefRook]

Any idea where I can get DOW 795, or 3M marine adhesive sealant? And I will be able to get it off later down the road if I want to?

FYI, My tank is currently dry, just in the planning stages now.

Also, there will be some "room" between the sheet of acrylic and glass, will I have to worry about cleaning what ever grows there? Because the tank is a corner tank with a round front you will never see the back two sides. This also means I will not really have a good way to clean it.

[reefRook]

H20ENG I live in Livermore.

[H20ENG]

795 can be purchased from a glass shop. This stuff is holding most public aquariums together!
3m stuff I actually saw at Home Depot the other day. I've used it a bunch to seal up acrylic panels on the concrete display tanks.
Yes you can get it off. You will cuss, but it can be done.

[igoRluse]

Well I think for my idea of building a wall on one of the sides, the black eggcrate and zip ties would be great. In fact, I hope to completely hide the back panel of the tank so the eggcrate won't be visible.

Just one question... How would I go about attaching the zipties to the rock? Drilling small holes?

[Dman]

igoRluse,
Yup, grab your concrete bit and plunge away. I doubt a hammer drill would be necessary on LR.
Dman

[Flanders]

Actually, a carbide tipped hammer drill bit works much better than a masonry or concrete bit, IME. You don't have to have a hammer drill to use one, you can use it in a regular drill. It will drill through most rock with ease. If you get the 5/8-inch size, you can drill holes to accomodate support rods made from broken up plastic clothes hangers along with the zip ties. Together with attaching the rock to the back glass, you could literally make any shapes you want.

[reefRook]

This was not answered from my post before, might have just been missed so I'll re ask the questions...

There will be some "room" between the sheet of acrylic and glass, will I have to worry about cleaning what ever grows there? Because the tank is a corner tank with a round front you will never see the back two sides. This also means I will not really have a good way to clean it.

[H20ENG]

No. Think of it as a built in "Cryptic Zone". You will see all sorts of cool sponges and bugs growing back there.

[CMSACD]

I also thought about doing something like this, but I was thinking about using some egg crate and getting some acrylic square rod that would fit inside the eggcrate holes. Then either resting the rock on the "pegs" or drilling the LR and sliding them over the "pegs".


That way i could move the "pegs" and LR around anyway I wanted to.


Just my thoughts....

Good Luck!

[igoRluse]

Well, here's what I have in mind for the moment. I am going to take a piece of eggcrate cut to the size of the back of my tank. I will then place it flat down in a box the same size and roughly cover it with aragocrete after having poked straws through the aragocrete at random spots so that they will leave holes for the zipties once I have removed the straws from the dry aragocrete. The aragocrete will basically be to provide a solid base to attach the liverock too without letting any of the eggcrate appear. The aragocrete will eventually be populated by corraline algae and will give the appearance of a reef wall that I would like to achieve. I'm also going to build a kind of ring on the bottom of the aragocrete that will lie on the tank glass. I will use this to make a 2 levelled sandbed.

[H20ENG]

I was thinking of molding the aragocrete right to the back of a plywood tank as a reef wall. I like your idea of being able to remove it.

[reefRook]

These are some great ideas. One issue I've been battling with is how to secure the "reef wall" to the tank so it does not fall over. I don't want to permanently attach it to the glass, I can't really use a hook, and I worry that the weight of the rock etc, over time will pull the "reef wall" off even with a good sealant.

So, I want to run another idea by all of you. If I use acrylic, not sure if I could do this with egg crate as I've never seen it, I could cut the acrylic to the size of the back wall, then also cut a sheet the same width and some length. Attach the second piece to the acrylic wall as a "foot", like a right angle. So the "foot" would rest on the bottom of the tank under the sand and rocks. I would still use some sort of a sealant to prevent the wall from leaning forward, but the majority of the wall would be supported by the "foot" not the sealant.

Does that make since? If so, is it a good idea or a bad one?

[H20ENG]

The acrylic wont be strong enough at the bottom to hold it stiff at the top.
At the aquarium, some of the smaller (400g+:D ) tanks had some fiberglass rockwork. It needed to be removed pretty often, so we used pvc pipe cut to length to jam between the top face of the rockwork and the top front of the tank frame. This pipe was obviously out of the water and hidden from view. You could use acrylic rod.
Chris

[Detritus]

Hello all,

I had a 75 gallon that I used black plastic mesh from the gardening centre at Home Depot to cover the back wall. The mesh was attached to the top of the tank with small platic clamps. The rock was then either cable tied or heavy gauge fishline was used to secure the rock to completely cover the back. It looked tremendous...for about six months. Bear in mind that water circulation behind and between the rocks is next to nil. Also most fish seem to appreciate grazing a more horizontal surface rather than a vertical one. Also in order to cover the mesh completely, the rock had to be attached to almost the top of the tank, a few were actually out of the surface. Fish will not graze rocks too close to the surface. End result of all of the above was persistent growth of turf algae. Just my experiences with it. Take care.

[reefRook]

So you said it looked "tremendous" for six months. Did you take it out? Would you do it again but with a different configuration, like maybe stopping the wall before the top of the tank, etc?