Baffle width

[Spudds]

I am designing a 15 gallon sump and am curious how much space I should put between each of my three baffles right before my return pump? I am also curious if a three baffle system is necessary in between the overflow from the tank and the refugium section or if just one baffle attached to the bottom would suffice. I will attach a picture of what I am planning to help people understand the questions. Thanks in advance.

Spudds.

edit: the yellow blob is the skimmer, it is sitting behind the drain tube from the overflow. The blue box is the return pump.

[takeshi79]

That second baffle isn't necessary unless you're creating many micro-bubbles in the center section of your sump. I can't tell you what width to put the baffles cause I'm not really sure. I would leave enough room to get your fingers in there - JIC.

[BlAcK_PeRcUlA]

I'd space them 1" apart

[Spudds]

Originally posted by takeshi79
That second baffle isn't necessary unless you're creating many micro-bubbles in the center section of your sump. I can't tell you what width to put the baffles cause I'm not really sure. I would leave enough room to get your fingers in there - JIC.

You mean the second and third baffle aren't necessary on the left, right? I figure micro bubbles in my refugium really doesn't matter too much.

Rob.

[Entropy]

I put 1 inch between the baffles in my sump. The acrylic I used (1/8 inch) flexs a little in the middle but never touchs the other baffle.

[Pyrojon]

The distance between your baffles should be determined by the input pipe. You only need as much area between the baffles as the area of the input pipe. 1" is likely to be waaay more then enough so I would go with that suggestion. Also the set of baffles onthe right hand side are not needed.

[Spudds]

Originally posted by Pyrojon
Also the set of baffles onthe right hand side are not needed.

Ok, should I atleast leave the middle one to keep sand out of the return pump (I plan to make the middle area into a refugium type thing)?

Spudds.

[Pyrojon]

Yes, a very good idea.

[Zephrant]

While 1" might be enough, you may need to get your hand in there some time to retrieve a dropped screw or something. Larger also means a slower flow rate, giving the bubbles a chance to rise.

I never do less than 3" in-between baffles.

Zeph

[Spudds]

Originally posted by Zephrant
Larger also means a slower flow rate, giving the bubbles a chance to rise.

I never do less than 3" in-between baffles.

Zeph

Thanks for the input! Where would bubbles be rising from that having a larger spacing in-between baffles would help? You want the bubbles to rise when they first make contact with the baffles (the first one) and then you want them to not make it under the second baffle, so as long as they overlap (height wise) then you should be ok, right? Or are you saying that you want the bubbles to rise all the way to the surface after making contact with the first baffle and before making contact with the second?

Spudds.

[melev]

Because of space constraints, you'll have to go with 1" gaps, which works fine.

Regarding your baffles, make every piece the same size. The center baffle needs to be 1" off the base of the sump. Your illustration has them way off the bottom which wouldn't trap hardly any bubbles at all.

I'd have the bubble trap on the left, and a single baffle on the right, merely holding the permanent water level of the refugium at the correct height.

[rallendorph]

Hi Folks,

I too am researching how to set up the baffles in both my sump, and refugium.

Description: I currently plan on a 150G Sump (Rubermaid Stock tank), and a 100G Refugium (Either Rubbermaid or Acrylic - not decided yet)

I will have 2x 2" Overflows from main tank (on first floor) to Sump (in basement). Right now I plan on having all the equipment attach into / out of the sump (Skimmer, CA Reactor, Couple small heaters.

The Sump will connect to the refugium with a 1" pipe, and to the chiller (1/2hp) with a 1" pipe.

Refugium and Chiller will each attach to an Iwaki 70RLT (2x) for return flow to the main tank (Total Head about 12'). I will be reducing the flow of the Iwaki's to about 800 to 1000 GPH for each return channel. Total flow to/From Sump 1600 to 2000GPH.

How much do I need to compensate for the higher water flow in spacing the baffles, and how thick do you think I need to make the baffles 1/4 , 3/8 ?.

I hopefully am including a drawing.

Thank,
Rob A. :beer:

Attachment: baffles.jpg

[rallendorph]

Doh.., here's the drawing,


Rob A.

[Spudds]

Here is the new layout after gathering all this helpful information. I do have one question left (at the moment). Is it ok to have the right most divider (the one controlling the height of the refugium (middle) area one inch higher then the left most baffle or should they be the same height so that the water just flows over the left baffles? Thanks in advance.

Spudds.

[Handyman]

Spudds,
Did you take into account what will happen when the pump is off and the excess water flows down.

[melev]

Spuds, your return area is simply too small, at least going by your drawing. How much water will that hold at any given time?

And how much water will your sump hold when the tank drains down when the power turns off? Remember (inches) L x W x D / 231 = Total Gallons. Using that formula, you can figure out how much room you have left in your sump to hold excess water.

I don't know what size tank you are putting this sump under, but I find that usually 2-4gal of water draining is common with 55g and smaller tanks.

[Spudds]

This will be over a 29 gallon tank, the return chamber will be about 3.5 inches long. I figure if I keep the return chamber 8 inches deep (with an auto top off system on it) then I have 1.5 gallons or so of water in there. If the pump stops then I have the remaining volume of the return chamber (1x12x3.5 inches) and then the rest of the tank which is 2 inches high x 24 inches long x 12 inches wide. This makes about 2.7 gallons for overflow when the pump fails.

[melev]

My 29g drains about .75 to 1gal of water when my pump is off. Be <b>sure</b> to drill <b>two</b> holes in your return line, 1/2" below the water line. That way as soon as your pump turns off, the water in the drain line, the water in your return line, and that 1/2" of water on the surface will be all that comes down to your sump.

If you drill the holes above the water's surface, you'll have bubbles blowing into your tank. If you drill only one hole, odds are a snail will be parked over it when the power is off, and more water will siphon out of your tank until the outlet sucks in some air finally.

[Spudds]

Great, thanks for the tip. Definately a good idea.

Spudds.

[Stormbringer22]

Here's my little 15 gallon refuge, that could be used as a sump as well! There's about 1" of space between the baffles. That's a good idea with the two holes in the returns, I hadn't thought about the snail aspect!:thumbsup:

[melev]

Stormbringer, I've seen this picture a couple of times now, but I don't see how you are going to grow any macros in the center. It just seems like too much sand, especially in such a small footprint.

You are wanting a major DSB to help your display I'm sure, but it simply isn't worthwhile on such a small scale. (And before you think I'm just being a jerk, cause I'm not :D, a DSB in a 29g is pretty much worthless as well - just for comparison.)

I'd bring your sand level down quite a bit, and add your macros. I have about 2" of sand in both of my refugiums, which each hold about 5-7g of water, and my refugiums thrive with life.

I see about 5" of water above the sand, but it looks like your macros will grow right down (or flow down) into your baffles causing restrictions.

Anyway, just give it some thought, and decide what is best for <b>your</b> setup.

[Stormbringer22]

Melev, I put some xenia coral in the area, instead of macros. You are a wealth of info & enjoy reading advise given by you & others! I just picked up a 70 gallon tank with a double stand, that I'm thinking about setting up into a refuge/sump for the 70 gallon display. Do you think this will be overkill or worthwhile? I post that picture of the 15 gallon refuge, to give an idea of whats possible in a design, as that basic design would work for various size tanks.

[melev]

A 70g display over a 70g sump? Sure, that would be a GREAT set up.

I was just at a club member's house last Saturday. He has an acrylic 340g that is 9' long, and divided his house so you can view it from both sides.

As I sat back looking at it, I told him the best solution was to put another 9' container under it, to be a huge sump, skimmer zone and refugium. And he agreed. However, his design prohibits that at this point, and there is no way he'll drain the tank and rebuild for my idea. Neither would I, but it would have been ideal.

Xenia instead of macros? Interesting.

[Spudds]

I've heard of using xenia over macro algae before, what are the various pros and cons of using one over another? Clearly xenia doesn't have such explosive growth and won't have the potential of clogging plumbing. Does it serve the same purpose?

Spudds.

[Stormbringer22]

I actually read somewhere that a 8" DSB would make an ideal de-nitrater & the Xenias are to be a nutrient scrubber since they are filter feeders. I can't find the types of macro algaes I would like to put in the refuge, but, do have Xenias spreading rapidly! It's the "pioneering spirit" making me do it! Has anyone had any experience with Fighting conch snails, I just put a small one in a small DSB, the LFS said they were a good "sand sifting" critter, so in it went!

[Spudds]

Appologies for bumping this again, but I'm starting to rethink my design and leaning more towards putting the refugium on the left, skimmer section on the right and a return in the middle. The question I have is this: What is the best way to split the overflow drain line without limiting the overflows capacity. Is the best thing to do to make the line from the tank a straight shot and stick a 90 degree T off towards the refugium, will this spit enough water that way? Here is a diagram of two setups that I'm talking about, I would think the one on the right would slow the maximum possible drain from the tank. I worry that the one on the left won't get enough flow to the refugium. Which way would be best?

Spudds.

[melev]

If you use the diagram on the left, just put a ball valve on the drain to the sump, and close it slightly. It will force water to come out on the refugium side.

If you use the diagram on the right, put the ball valve on the refugium, and the majority will go to your sump.

I put my refugium's water feed on my return pump instead, so all water goes into my sump. That other line with a valve (the vertical one) is my way of bleeding off excess flow from my pump, as my tank can't keep up with the pump I'm using. By opening the valve a little, some water goes right back into the sump, and no added pressure is put upon the pump.

http://www.melevsreef.com/return.jpg

[melev]

Fighting Conchs are great for sand sifting and cleanup. You can only have one for ever 2 square feet of surface. So don't put too many or they'll starve. Also, they will occasionally just bury themselves for up to two weeks, hibernating perhaps. Or maybe to grow. Don't worry, he'll come out when he's ready.

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/fighting_conch_052103.jpg

[Spudds]

Hey, great idea. I'm using a mag 9.5 which I think will be more then my overflow can handle and I was really worried about decreasing the flow through the drain with an elbow.

Spudds.

[melev]

Spudds, that is the same pump I'm using. My 55g can't keep up, even with two 1" U tubes pouring into a 1.25" drain. :rolleyes: