Bad Water - Help!

[ronmail65]

I set up a new 90 gallon tank in late Feb of this year. I cured 90lbs of live rock in the tank and added about 4 inches of Carib aragonite sand. I've been doing weekly 10 gallon water changes.

About 5 weeks ago a major hair algae outbreak started. I've removed algae by hand, added lots of snails and hermit crabs, and added a lawnmower blenny.

When I changed the water last night I notice the surface of the water appears stagnant and viscous with an oily film. The prefilter in the overflow was filthy and the skimmer appears to be performing below expectations. My Blenny is not looking good so I moved him to my 30 gallon FOWLR.

HELP!! What's going on??? How can I fix it???

Other info:
- I use RODI water for all top-offs and with my Instant Ocean mix for changes.
- I have 3 1200 power heads running and have power quad lighting.

[tag007]

Could use more info. Water parameters would be helpful... Ammonia, Nitirtes, Nitrates, phosphates, ph, calc, Alk, salinity, temp, etc..

Hair algae is a byproduct of excess nutrient. Specifically phosphates and nitrates. So is the "oil slick" you describe.

What type of skimmer? Any other filtration, mechanical or biological? Micro Algea other than the undesired hair?

[ccsc3400]

I agree with Tag....high phosphates....How old are the filters in your RODI unit? What type of skimmer & pump? You also may want to throw in a phophate sponge, something to suck up the phosphates for a week.

[scubaman]

I had the same thing happen after using epoxy in my tank(for LR)....Surface skimming, and time...it went away
Scubaman

[ronmail65]

Thanks all for the input -- here's some additional information and answers to questions....

Ammo, Nitrate, Nitrite were minimal or non-existent when I tested last week (don't have the stats with me). Ph has been consistently 8.3 for last couple of months. My hydrometer reads 1.023 +/- 0.0005.

I don't test for calc, Alk, or phosphates.

Temperature was 80-81, until I installed a couple of fans 3 weeks ago. Now I'm down to 76.

My skimmer is a Berlin Turbo w/Pump -- no other filtration (except for LR).

My RODI is brand new as of March. I flush with every use and pressure is reading like it's new.

There's other green and red slimy alage on the substrate and surface of the LR.

Hope this helps with your diagnosis!! Let me know your thoughts!!

[Flanders]

I don't test for calc, Alk, or phosphates.

Well, there's your problem. You gotta do the legwork before the detectives here can give you any detailed advice. How is the tank stocked? How much are you feeding? Setup detalis, etc.

A tank this new is far from stable and will often go through algae phases. Sounds like your skimmer isn't performing well - something may be clogged or broken or maybe you just need to clean it.

I would guess your alk is too low and your phosphates are too high, but that's just a guess.

I would do a large 40-50 percent water change for now and start using carbon. If you're already using it, change it.

[Ryan]

use a paper towel on the surface of your water!

[ronmail65]

Flanders --

Thanks for the input! Are there specific test kits / brand names that you would recommend for Alk, Calc, and Phosphates?

You may be right about the skimmer. I plan on breaking it down this weekend to have a closer look.

Re: tank inhabitants ... I listed those guys in my original message. I feed very little flake for the chromis -- the other guys should survive on the algae (or so I'm told).

What else can I tell you...?

Ron

[sahinsc]

Im a newbee, so I really shouldn't be giving much advice. When I had a outbreak with the red slime algae (cyano?) my LFS asked how many hours a day I was running my lights and told me to reduce it to no more than 6-8 hours a day for a while.

Im sure the solution is in the water parameters and doing the tests, but how many hours do you run your lights?

[Flanders]

I use a salifert alk test and the red sea calcium test. The salifert calcium is better but I've heard it's very time consuming to use. Come to think of it, I wouldn't bother testing for phosphates. You almost definitely have them.

I always saw an outbreak of nuisance algae in my tank when the alk dropped. I usually keep my alk over 9 dkh. I never had a very successful reef tank until I began monitoring alk and ca.

Did you say you weren't dosing anything for alk and ca? You may want to look into using a two-part alk and ca buffer like bionic. Until then, a big water change should get your parameters back in check. Also, you can blast all the crap off your rocks with a turkey baster, pull out as much algae as you can or remove rocks from the tank and scrub it off in tank water, shaking all the crap off as you do it. Then throw out that water of course and do a big water change.

I still am not seeing a post where you listed tank inhabitants. You mentioned a couple things but it doesn't look like a complete list.

What else... How old are your light bulbs?

[bb]

It sounds like an algae bloom. If your tank parameters are what you say then its probably just the fact that its a new tank. I would check for phosphates which could be the culprit but even if that is it or isn't its still safe to assume that is because its a new tank. If your doing a 10 gallon water change a week that adds up to 40 gallons a month 40 %. If your tank isn't stocked fully which given the maturity of the tank I would assume its not The water changes are probably enoough to keep alk and ca high enough howver I would still test! In any case I'm betting that this is just a algae bloom that eveeryone has gone threw. Salt mixes contain extra nutrients and such and these extra nutrients need to be absorbed by the system. I would be cautios about doing a 40 -50% water change in the fact that this could make matters worse from this standpiont. Provided the algae isn't hurting anything I would think about leaving it and letting it do its job its there for a reason and could altimetly solve the problem.
BArry
Oh ya how much water agitation do you have on the top of the tank.

[Flanders]

I would be cautios about doing a 40 -50% water change in the fact that this could make matters worse from this standpiont

I'm not following that reasoning. Instant ocean contains no 'extra nutrients.' Just trace elements. It will dilute whatever is causing the bloom, provided the ro water is phosphate free.

[bb]

Maybe the use of the word extra was a bad choice but regardless if fresh saltwater didn't contain more nutrients than needed then why in the beginning maturity of a tank does someone have algae blooms even if his water parameters are perfect. also even to this day after a water change on my tank I can see a slight increase in nuisance algae growing on the glass for a week or so after.


His tank has only been setup since late Feb. I kept my parameters almost perfect for the whole life of my tank and still had serious algae blooms for the first 6 months or so

[Flanders]

Most tanks have algae blooms in the first 6 months. If you can't test for the nutrients it means they are being consumed by the algae as soon as they enter the water column. That doesn't mean your parameters are perfect.

Do you use tap water? You're probably seeing nuisance algae on the glass after a water change because the water you're mixing the salt mix with has nutrients in it. It has nothing to do with the salt mix. Most are nitrate and phosphate free.

The algae blooms have to do with tank and sandbed maturation. Also, most tanks this age are not heavily stocked with corals and corals use many of the same nutrients that algae do to grow - since they are part algae themselves.

RO/DI water mixed with a quality salt mix will be lower in nutrients than what is in your tank - especially if you have nuisance algae.

[bb]

Originally posted by Flanders
Most tanks have algae blooms in the first 6 months. If you can't test for the nutrients it means they are being consumed by the algae as soon as they enter the water column. That doesn't mean your parameters are perfect.


RO/DI water mixed with a quality salt mix will be lower in nutrients than what is in your tank - especially if you have nuisance algae.

Top quote
I didn't really think of it that way thanx, however this means exactly what I stated in the fact that its a new tank and that's most likely the reason. Also I would think about what you have written here It seems to me that there is then a need for the nuisnance algae which as stated above I think to be true. Also if the algae is sucking up the nutrients to the piont that it doesn't even show on a salfert test than whats the problem. Isn't this the theory behind a refugium.

No I don't use tap water I use RO\DI with tropic marine salt.

Bottom qoute?
I'm sorry I don't exactly understand this quote I am not the smartest guy but it doesn't make sense to me. could you please explain. I don't mean to sound argumentative at all. I am only interested in learning.

[ronmail65]

Thanks very much for all the input. Here's an update and some more info as requested....

UPDATE:
Last night I performed a 10% water change, pulled out some algae and used the paper towel method on the surface of the water -- it lifted the slick right off (Thanks Aquaholic420). I'm anxious to see if and how quickly it returns. I'm feeling better about the situation -- I was really freaked at first!! I'm also comforted to hear that for most new tanks its just part of the maturation process.

I was concerned about my Lawnmower Blenny so I moved him to another tank temporarily. Other tank inhabitants are two small Green Chromis, about 80-100 hermit crabs, and about 60-70 snails. They appear to be doing fine. I've added these gradually over the past 6 weeks or so.

MORE INFO:
My light bulbs were brand new as of Feb. I'm adding Seachem Reefbuilder and Ca dry supplements as directed. And, yes, I'm using RODI water with an Instant Ocean mix.

NEXT STEPS:
Based on the Collective Advice the Next Steps for Me Are:
- Scrubbing some of the LR this weekend and, if the slick reappears, continue to use the paper towel method.
- Probably another, more substantial water change.
- Looking into some additional test kits.
- Take a closer look at the protein skimmer -- make sure it's working properly and clean if necessary
- And, just give it some time.

Thanks everyone for your input -- keep it coming if you have additional suggestions!

Ron

[bb]

- Scrubbing some of the LR this weekend and, if the slick reappears, continue to use the paper towel method.
- Ron [/B][/QUOTE]

What do you mean by scrubbing. Also have you tested your phosphates yet. And as stated above The algae is unsightly however it is there for a reason. I have news for you the more you clean the more frustrated your going to get it will only keep coming back until your tank has matured. When I was going threw it It was recommended to me to just let it go! provided phosphates and all other parameters are in check and it isn't suffocationg any corals. Keep dosing with the calk and etc and at some piont the Coraline algae will start taking the place of the nuisance algae and then another battle will ensue. If you think cleaning the glass of nuisance algae is a pain wait untill you need to scrape it by hand twice a week!
Also The paper towel method works but can be a serious pain, What about increaing the the agitation of water on the surface with a power head. ! it would put the slick into your water current and be removed by skimmer 2 it would increase gas exchange which from the sounds of things might be a problem.

As always what I have stated is my opinion others might agree or disagree however after fighting the algae for a month or so I gave up provided you can take looking a an ugly a-- tank for awhile will all come out in the end. I also feel that the tank will most likely mature faster if let go. The more you fool around with it, sticking your hands in , scrubbing rock etc the worse you could make things.

[Flanders]

Edit: A lot of folks posting at once here. I'm out of ideas. Keep us posted.

BB - just trying to say that freshly mixed saltwater will usually be lower in nutrients than what's in our tanks. Sorry for the unclear post.

[ronmail65]

CLOSING UPDATE:

Thanks everyone for your input. I wanted to close this out with you....

So the papertowel method took up the slick which has not returned.

I inspected the skimmer -- the center column was loose. I tightened it and that seemed to increase performance/output.

I manually harvested the big pieces of algae, but resisted scrubbing the rock. I think you all had a good point regarding the natural maturation process of the system.

I did a second 10 gallon water change this weekend and took a sample to my LFS for testing -- everything looked great.

So, the tank is looking much clearer and I'm noticing some nice corraline development. I'll just be patient and hope that I don't get another major algae bloom anytime too soon.

Thanks