Algea LR cycle confusion

[Biodragen]

RON,

I managed to catch your seminar in Chicago...great and loved it all.

I have been having issues with my tank for some time now.
I origianaly had tap water and went to RO water.
I have a 55 gal with a very good skimmer, all my equipment is new and not one bit is used.
I was having Blooms galore to where it would spread in a matter of hours.
I had started out with Florida crushed coral and didn't like it and decised to change to dsb for two reasons. One I liked the look and secondly I wanted to use all RO water, so I did a massive cleaning one night.

Since then I have had the algea that was red, brown, grean, tan, redslime, hair all at one time. I am now dealing with Cyano. Most of the other algea is gone from what I can see.

I had added 20 Astrea snails(those all died 5 days later)20 right leg crabs, An approximate even mix of Nassarius and Cerith snails for a total of 60. Now most of those snails and crabs are down to a minimum and I see very few left.
I do not know what to do because this Cyano seems to be taking over my sandbed mainly and some LR but not all LR.
I have 68lbs of LR and approx 3-4 inch sandbed. I have 3 percula clowns and one small yellow tang.
My tank has been set up like this for 7 weeks and the past 5 have been nothing but algea. I do regular 10% WC every week.
I also drip Kalk at about 30ml per hour.

Now I see others here who set up tanks and by this time they have been adding some sort of stock. I fear doing this due to my algea growth and don't want to smother them.
All my Parms are in order. My alk is high and my Ph sits around 8.4.
I have been told my LR was not even cured for the tank when I got it.
Now I would assume the snails would take care of most of this but this growth seems to be outdoing them at this rate.
Now my glass is pretty clean and mainly free of algea.
What do I do at this point? increase water changes? I am at a loss and my wife is getting upset with me spending as much time as I have cleaning on a daily basis.

I really need you help to get me going.

This was the last advice that was given to me as of today.

1. Do a 10 % water change for 10 days in a row, the first two days siphen out as much of that algae as you can with a siphen hose.
2 Turn off the halides and just keep your actenic light running for about 7 hrs.
3. DO not supplement the tank at all for the 10 days you are doing the water changes. Use instant ocean salt too.
4. I would highly reccomend using Sea-chem supplements they are much better to work with and I really think you would not have as many problems.

What are your thought on this.
Oh and the algea is starting to get long hairs on the SB but brown in color
Thanks
Brian

[Biodragen]

Not bumping but I thought I had attached a picture so I will try again

[rshimek]

Hi Brian,

Well.... As I see it, you have tried to go too fast, and you have added some "clean-up" livestock without understanding as to why that particular type of animal is added.

Astraea species eat diatoms. They generally don't eat much else. I suspect some of the ones you added starved. However, most probably succumbed for some other reason. Generally, when they die in en masse, it is due to excessively low salinty. These animals (all reef animals, really) should be kept at a salinity of 36 to 37 ppt - which translates to a specific gravity reading of 1.025 or 1.026 at around 82F (which is also the appropriate temperature).

Nassarius feed on meaty carrion - ONLY!! They do not eat detritus. They should be added only if you are feeding a lot of meaty foods (frozen brine shrimp, diced fish, etc.). Otherwise, they will starve. Generally, a good stocking density for them is about 3 or 4 per square foot of open sand surface. In a 55 with some live rock, you probably should have no more than about 5 or 6.

Cyanobacterial outbreaks are not the problem. They are a symptom of the problem (which is dissolved nutrient imbalance). Their presence basically means that the tank is accumulating dissolved nutrients. These nutrients are bound into the cyanobacteria and will not show up on a test kit. Not much eats cyanobacteria. About the only snails that will do so are the conchs. Your tank is not big enough for a queen conch, but you might want to add 1 - only one! - fighting conch. It will grow from a small animal as it eats the cyanobacter and will eventually help keep it under control.

However, the majority of the control of these algae will have to come with better management of the nutrients.

First, I am unclear from your post, but if you have any crushed coral in your system you probably should get rid of it.

Secondly, you should institute a program of nutrient management. This should include using as powerful a skimmer/pump combination as you can. Probably you should try to grow some macroalgae some place in your system; when this is growing well, periodically harvest it and remove it.

Thirdly, the only additive you need is kalkwasser. No other additive is necessary or desireable. Many "over the counter" additives contain excessive amounts of trace elements- these are poisons when their concentrations are in excess. They tend to kill beneficial microbes, among other things, and this facilitates the grow of cyanobacteria.

I would use a low metal salt rather than Instant Ocean. It will be better for your animals over all.

Fourth, you probably should do a series of major (about 50%, not 10%) water changes, and do siphon out the excess algae when you do so. Ten percent exchanges really don't remove enough of the nutrients.

Have you added detritivore "kits" to your sand bed? Sand beds need animals in them to be functional. Both Inland Aquatics (www.inland.aquatics) and Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (www.ipsf.com) are good sources of these animals. You will want to remove any hermit crabs before you add these animals as the hermit crabs will attack and eat them. Generally, hermit crabs are detrimental to sand beds.

Once a sand bed is set up, one needs to be patient. The bed really is not capable of recycling nutrients efficiently for about 6 months. During that period, the bioload in the tank should be kept low.

Be patient. It will take some time to get the algae under control.

:strooper:

[Biodragen]

Thanks Ron,
I did sort of rush into to but I did not think I was moving that quickly. Mother nature has her way with time.
I did remove the crushed coral and went with the Olitic sand bed at about 3-4 inches.
I figured either my snails died from suffocation or like you said starved. I am new and tend to listen others and it has started to cost me money listening and not undrstanding what I have.

What I have done starting this past wednesday was to really cut back on the lights to about 6-7 hrs a day. I also removed my LR temporarily to skim off the top of the sand bed to remove the algea as best as possible. I then scrubbed the LR that was covered completly in the algea, I left the remaining rock as it was.
I have been doing 10% WC everyday since this past wednesday.

From my understanding my LR is still dying off and curing which is what is causing the large amount of nutrients and is feeding the algea along with the 12 hrs a day lighting. I have a good skimmer and I also have temporarily turned that off for now. I also have stopped dosing KALK.

After I have this algea under control I will slowly bring on the lights at a longer times. I will also be adding a clean up crew as needed. I will also add worms and more diversity to the sand bed.

It is unanomous with most ppl that I am still curing my rock. Apparently I never did get rock that was cured or semi cured.
Also from my understanding of what I have been up against is that ( for lack of terms) My LR is having a memory of my bioload. By this my tank will know it's bioload and could handle me adding stock to my tank much better conditions. I figure my process from the day I started would tak approximatly 3 to 4 months before I am really ready to add coral stock.
As I have heard repeatedly by other and you as well, the longer I take to get this going the better off I will be and I would be much happier.

Once I finish my ten days of WC then I will start my skimmer again and cut back to weekly WC and see where I am at again with the algea.

Thanks for the clarification you gave me and more insightful information. I will use it wisely.

Brian

[rshimek]

Originally posted by Biodragen

G'mornin' Brian,

I did sort of rush into to but I did not think I was moving that quickly. Mother nature has her way with time.

This can be effectively instantaneous in tanksl

I have a good skimmer and I also have temporarily turned that off for now. I also have stopped dosing KALK.

Restart both of these. Skimming is essential in removing excess nutrients (see my article in the December, 2002, issue of [rk]). Kalk dosing will assist those animals that need calcium and it will stabilize alkalinity.

After I have this algea under control I will slowly bring on the lights at a longer times. I will also be adding a clean up crew as needed. I will also add worms and more diversity to the sand bed.

You need the clean up crew and sand bed animals yesterday. Don't dilly-dally about this! Get those animals ASAP.

It is unanomous with most ppl that I am still curing my rock. Apparently I never did get rock that was cured or semi cured.

Yes, but this will cure relatively rapidly, and leave you with a good live rock and one h**l of a lot of nutrients in your system. You will need to start to remove nutrients ASAP, to allow your system to "bloom" into its potential glory, so .... Search this forum (see the button in the logo above) and use "nutrient export" as your search key words. You will get a number of "hits." Read these and react accordingly. If you have any specific questions after that I will be glad to address them.