Ok, tell me how to set up a Q tank

[Kevomac]

I have been planning to do this for a long time. Since I just had my 29 wiped out by some mystery illness yet again, I think its time to set up a quarantine tank. I have an old 20 gal that will work, but what should I use for filtration? Also, how do you "cycle" a quarantine tank since it should be bare bottomed. And how do you keep it cycled when it may sit empty for a while between Q times.

Also, what kind of copper do you recommend and how long should the newcomers be quarantined?

Thanks for the help!

Kevo

[minh_han]

I don't think you need to cycle the tank. If the tank is empty in between times, there's nothing to cycle. When you have fish in it, I don't think they stay for long enough to worry too much about ammonia build up. If you test it and it has ammonia, do a water change. You likely will only have one or two fish in the Q tank at any time, so the bioload is not all that great. JMO

[Alberio]

I recently put a foxface in a 15 gallon q tank. I filled it half with good tank water from my 120 and half with new water. Within 3 days I had detectable ammonia and nitrates. I ended up doing 25% water changes every night for two weeks to keep the paramenters 'ok'.

It doesn't take much ammonia to stress the fish. Food and waste start creating it almost immediately.

I don't know how to keep the q-tank cycled. Put some sand and a bit of rock in it and throw some food in once in a while??

Mike

[jdg]

This is what I do:

I throw a sponge filter (one of those little air driven ones) in my main tank sump and let it sit there. When I want to bring the QT tank online, I just throw the sponge filter in the QT tank and I'm good to go. Also, I would recommend HypoSalinity vs Copper Treatment (Link:http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html)

If you don't have a biologially active sponge filter going, you can take a new one and bury it (running) about an 1" or so deep in your existing bed for 24-48 hours. That should load it up nicely with bioactive gunk.

If I expect to be using the QT tank again in the near future, I'll pull the sponge filter out, drain the whole QT tank, rinse it nice and clean with the garden hose, and refill it. Then I put the sponge filter back in and will toss in a little reef chromis to keep it active.

btw, I wouldn't recommend passing that sponge filter back and forth in and out of your main tank without a thorough cleansing. Some folks have two and just alternate them (6 week QT period is plenty of time to re-load a thoroughly cleansed sponge filter).

HTH!

Joe.

[CAT]

If you know you're going to need a q-tank, you can put a pengium filter with a bio-wheel on your sump for a couple of weeks to seed it. Also, unless you've got a big fish, a 10 gallon is easier to do water changes on - because even with working bio-filter, you'll find it doesn't take long for an ammonia spike to happen. I drop Seachem's 'Ammonia alert' in the tank. It's basically a yellow disc that changes color if there is ammonia in the tank so a quick check will tell you how good your water quality is.

Hyposalinity will work on ick but for other, nastier parasites like amyloodinium (marine velvet) which can kill fish in about 3 days, you'll need copper. Seachem's 'Cupramine' is supposed to be the safest copper treatment and they have a test kit so you can keep proper levels during treatment.

hth

[Zephrant]

There are some people that draw a distinction between a Quarantine tank, and a Hospital tank.

Basically a Q tank is defined as a separate, fully established tank where specimens are placed to allow them to settle in, and get used to the new food before being placed in to the main tank. It also gives you time to observe them of course. You never medicate in this tank, (although hyposalinity is an option) just always leave it going. I have a 10 gallon tank with a small bio-wheel on it, a little sand, and a few rocks. It has a ton of amphipods in it that I feed daily so there is a great source of live food when I get a new fish. Over the next 3-4 weeks, I get them to eat frozen, then flake foods as the amphipod population gets decimated. A week or two after I pull the fish out, the 'pod population has rebounded and it is ready again. Note that I can only buy fish about once a month. :(

A Hospital tank is typically a 10 gallon tank that is kept "dry". It is filled with tank water and medication, then the sick fish is placed in to it. Large water changes are used to keep the ammonia in check.

Zeph

[Alberio]

X-cellent advice.

Thank you.

[Kevomac]

I knew RC would come through. I will plan on using my 20 (just because I already have it) and will try to find a sponge filter to put in it. I may not fill it all the way up, though, just to make it easier to maintain. As for large fish, my tanks range from 29 to 120, so I may pick up a larger fish, but most will me relatively small.

I do want to run copper, because I have had too many bad experiences with a new fish making everybody sick and wiping out my entire tank. I will try out the cupramine, and I will also check out the ammonia detector. I make my own RO/DI water, so quick water changes are no big problem. I will also try "seeding" the sponge filter in my main tank briefly as well.

Is six weeks q time necessary? I thought I had read that four weeks would be enough to get rid of any parasites or other problems. What is everyone else's experience with this?

[LX302]

Only treat if you see symptoms. Other than that, after you notice the disease is gone or untetectable, then 21 days is standard for assurance that most of the parasites have died and they have not reproduced. Public aquariums quarantine for 4 weeks.
HTH

[Alberio]

Hi,

I wonder if running the smallest size bio-wheel on the sump continually and just switching the bio-wheel to the Q tank and then back to the sump, etc. would work.

I see two possible issues. Could the little bio-wheel affect the nitrates on a large reef. 150 gallons with sump?

If you treat the Q with copper, is it going to leach into the bio-wheel? Would putting a tiny bit of copper into your main tank have consequences?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks.

[Kevomac]

I would be concerned about switching a filter back and forth, because of the copper. I would rather replace a cheap sponge filter if the q tank has been down for a while rather than risk putting any copper in my tank. It is my understanding that any copper in a tank is toxic to any and all inverts, including sea stars and snails. I'd just rather not risk it.

[devin]

This has been great reading - I am hoping to get a Q-Tank setup this weekend.

One note on the copper - any of you use B-Ionic? look on the label of part 2 - it lists copper as one of the ingredients...? what's up with that?

[jdg]

Just some things to consider:

(1) Although it hasn't been mentioned, don't use any chemicals/additives to reduce ammonia (ie: amquel) if you're dosing copper. Apparently, the reaction results in some sort of 'insta-kill'.

(2) I Hypo all new specimens. Some fishies can carry parasites like Ich and never display any symptoms, so I pro-actively treat them for 6 weeks just to be sure. Although 4 weeks is probably plenty, I prefer to go the extra week or two for good measure. In the Fish Disease Treatment forum, many suggest 5-6 weeks. I'd find it frustrating to find that I added the fish a week or two early and now I not only need to start over (an additional 4 weeks) but that knowing the 4 weeks wasn't good enough, I have to add a couple. a 6 week quarantine just became 10. :)
Pods and stuff won't do well in a Hypo environment ... any life on rocks and a DSB would cease to exist.

(3) No sand, no rock, nothing in a copper tank (other than some plastics and PVC for hiding places). The copper will leach into it and cause all sorts of issues.

(4) I agree, I wouldn't put anything medicated or coppered back into my main tank. I swap the filters because I use Hypo as a preventative as well as a treatment. A thorough freshwater washing of the filter would remove any nasties that got stuck in it that weren't already 'sterile'; unfortunately, it kills the good bacteria too. Luckily, I have this other filter that's been in my tank for 6 weeks since the last quarantine that I can use. :)

HTH!

Good info on this thread :)

Joe.

[Alberio]

OK, no filter swapping. Makes perfect sense.

What level is hypo-salinity? 1.017? lower?

I'm assuming that the fish has to be taken down to that level over the course of minutes? hours? days?

How stressful for the fish. I do like the sounds of that better than copper. Copper itself is very hard on the fish.

mjd

[jdg]

Hypo-Salinity is 1.009 to 1.010 ... you want to measure this daily (probably twice a day) and you need to have either a Salinity Monitor or a Refractometer (you can pick up either, or both, at Premium Aquatics http://www.premiumaquatics.com). btw, though this may seem expensive, when dosing copper you need to check your copper levels at least twice a day, not to mention make numerous water changes to deal with the bioload over the course of treatment. Although Copper/Cupramine is inexpensive, the test kits add up rather quickly. As does the time for mixing new salt, balancing pH, and the costs associated therein.

You want to lower the salinity over a few days, there's a link to an article up in my first reply to this thread you may want to check out for some more detailed information.

Copper is considerably more harsh on the fishies ... in fact, I believe I read somewhere that it can cause issues with reproduction, etc -- so if you have clownfish that you'd like to mate/spawn, etc, it's not a good idea.

Oh, btw, I started with Copper Treatment, and I switched. Here's why:
(1) The test kit 'Results Card' is a slow transition from white to blue. I had a *really* hard time figuring out where I really was w/ Copper Levels based on the very fine gradiant.
(2) The test takes awhile. In fact, the test kit comes with this little thingie so you can actually run more than 1 test at the same time (I think you had to let it sit for 15-20 mins? Maybe more -- don't really remember here, but it was awhile).
(3) I dinna wanna hurt the fishies, and I understand Copper is harsh.
(4) I can deal with Ammonia by adding Amquel a lot easier than I can do water changes.
(5) SuperBuffer dKH is inexpensive (see the negatives below)
(6) pH testing is easier to deal with than copper testing. Even using a regular test kit, it's *A LOT* easier to read the results. At least it was for me. :)

Here's some negatives to Hypo Salinity:
(1) Since it's a smaller system with no substrate, pH is kinda hard to keep stable. Adding all the makeup evap water tends to lower the pH. I bought a container of Kent SuperBuffer dKH and added the appropriate dose to my system every day for about a week before things stabilized.
(2) Keep an eye on pH; I had a pH monitor in my reef system that I moved to the QT tank because I didn't want to have to test daily -- if you don't have a monitor though, this would be an added cost -- though must of us all have pH kits (and/or can get our LFS to test it for free. Most of us don't have Copper Test kits laying around, nor does the LFS).

Also, it seems that fish (internally) have a SG much lower than that of SW, so a lot of they energy demands are based on regulating that osmotic balance. By lowering the SG in the surrounding SW, it's actually easier on their systems.

btw, Hypo won't do much for velvet/amyloodiuym, but it works great for Ich. It also give fish a good 4-6 weeks in a stable environment where they can fatten up and improve their own immuno defense systems.

Just some thoughts. :)

Good luck, if you have any questions, feel free to drop me a line. There's also some good info on the Fish Disease Treatment Forum.

Joe.