To Eel, or Not To Eel? I just want a straight answer.

[FireMarshalBill]

I have wanted an eel forever, orginially I wanted a snowflake eel.
I did tons of searching on here for info.
Always getting different answers about putting it in a reef, finally decided not to and I can't even remember why.
Anyhow, now I'm looking @ a ribbon eel. Can someone tell me if they are reefsafe, if not, what kind of damage will they do?

Thanks

[Balor]

they are reef safe, but get a ghost ribbon, as the other ones are very hard to keep, in all honesty.........i'd go back to the snowflake....very reef safe, just keep them well fed.

[brianlena2000]

I wouldn't call any moray very reef safe. Most are considered not reef safe. That doesn't mean that people haven't successfully kept them in a reef though. For more info try both of these descriptions:

http://www.marinedepotlive.com/443734.html

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=131

Hope that helps!


:bum:

[Creade]

I've kept about a dozen eels through the years. I have yet to keep a ribbon eel, but I honestly wouldnt trust any carnivore of that nature in a reeftank. You asked what type of damage they would do. I would suspect youll have a loss of shrimp to start, and other crustaceans depending on the type of eel. Once it begins to grow, they knock over coral, stir up sand, and disrupt rock structure.
Im not going to say I have never heard of a reef that successfully kept an eel, its just hit or miss. If the eel is timid to start and well fed throughout its life you have a chance at not losing critters. I definately suggest finding one that seems timid and also is already used to eating strictly dead food. If you put a live eatting eel in your tank regardless of how well you feed him Id say you can expect fish loss.
Also, keep your eels diet varied and nutritional. Use Zoe, or some form of vitamin suppliment to soak dried/frozen foods in and keep switching it up so he doesnt start to think whatever he is living with might taste good.
Sorry for babbling but after taking in eel after eel from people that couldnt take care of them or didnt realize they were going to be the creature that they are.. it gets old.
<edit> Just came to mind- I do not know of many reef tanks that are sealed tight enough for an eel not to escape. They can fit through cracks/holes alot smaller than you can imagine, the tank MUST be sealed up, or youll have eel jerky on your floor one morning.

Creade

[teevee]

NO

[mhltcob]

i had a black ribbon in my reef and it didnt touch my coral banded shrimp or small fish. However, you do have to completely seal your tank which loses light and is a pain. Some are even skilled enough to go through the slots on the overflow. Also they produce a heck of alot of waste which can cause algae blooms so buy a good skimmer. And like other people have said it is hard to find a ribbon that eats, even though mine ate like a pig. Fenner qoutes them as having a 2% survival for over a month however, the young (black) ribbons i have seen had about a 50/50-still a big risk (which even though it is better, it is not environmentally friendly to take a fish out of the wild where only a fraction will survive a month). They do also rearange the rocks so be careful and secure all rock and coral. That said, snowflakes are easy to keep, not real viscious, and pretty reef safe. Other morays are alot more viscious.

[johnrags1234]

I have a golden moray (g. milliras). It is the rare golden color form. It is pure yellow, looks like a stick of butter!

It doesnt bother ANYTHING in my tank. It hasnt touched my clownfish, shrimp, or snails/crabs.

I would consider an eel reef safe, none harm corals at all. My eel, has had no escape attempts, but the tank does have a very high canopy.

If you ares serious about it, look at g. meletremus, the golden DWARF moray. They are 199- 250 each, but only obtain a length of 8-11 inches. They are piscivores, so they would eat fish, however, they simply cant fit them into there mouths.

My g. millaris is piscivores as well, but it too hasnt harmed my clow (m/ polymnus). I attribute this to the clowns size and the eels smalle size right now as well. When the eeel gets larger, I will have to possibly remove the clown.

Chiquata (my eel) eets formula foods and fresh fish flesh impaled on a feeding stick 2 times a week. I feed her to satiation, like Scott Michaels recommends in his book Aquarium Fishes.

Morays in the gen us Echidna (think snowflake, zebra) will not bother fish ever, but will relish your clean up crew. Thi is the reason I feel that a piscivorous eel is better suited to a reef tank. You may not be able to keep fish with it, but it is a trade off I am willing to take.

I wouold avoid the ribbon eels, most die with in one month of captivity. They rae gorgeous though!

Dont let some one who has never kept one tell you they are or are not reefsafe. You have to have the first hand experience to truly understand thier 'reef safeness'

Also th term reef safe is very, very subjective. It depedns if it means to you: Will the fish harm corals? Will it harm ornamentle crustaceans? Will it devour my clean up crew? Will it eat my fish tank mates? To me it simply means it will not eat clean up crew or corals, to you it might mean something else.

Now Im rambling.............
John

[johnrags1234]

Jeez! Sorry for all the typos in the above post! I cant fix it now, I have to work on my tank.

John

[brianlena2000]

Actually we have kept both snowflakes and a zebra moray. So I was posting from personal experience. The snowflake went after small fish and the zebra tried to eat ANY cleanup crew we put in the tank including snails and hermits (used to eat mussels and clams).

Best of luck!

[johnrags1234]

brianlena2000- I was not in reference to you, sorry if it sounded so in context!

Also, another tid bit ( for original poster)- Snowflakes get real agressive when their is food stimulas, some times they will go into a frenzy, knocking about frags and wreaking havock on your rock work.

I also should NOt have said that the genus Echidna will never go after fish. That is totally wrong. I did a little more searching RE this, and fish arent its natural diet, but that doesnt mean it wont make a quick meal of them!

John

[brianlena2000]

Hey johnrags1234, no worries. I should have mentioned our personal experience in my original post.

Thanks!

:bum:

[skattabrain]

i had a snowflake in a "fish only" with 1 cleaner shrimp. it never touched him.

this eel was a whimp, good natured, fed him quite often though. when i bought him he was very very small. maybe that's it.... i dunno.

later on he was put in a tank with several snails, he never attacked them either.

i too would absolutely love to have 1 in a reef tank. they kinda of become the star of the show.. even next to gaudy fish.

kinda sounds almost like i'm recommending to do this, but i'm not. he developed a little aggressiveness as he got bigger.

...it would be easy to get him out if he wasn't playing nice though.

[skattabrain]

let me add this... i did feed him like a pig, even when he was small.

i would give him an entire cube everyday.

[FireMarshalBill]

How would you go about removing an eel from a 90 gallon tank if it weren't playing nice?

Will they eat snails?

[skattabrain]

their almost blind, the smell of food will drive him right to you, then whipout the net and snag him. get a big net.

you may even want to feed with with the net next to him just so he gets used to it.

[kennerd]

If you're really stuck on an eel in a reef, get out your wallet, get on a waiting list, and look for :
Golden Dwarf Moray
Gymnothorax melatremus

Here's a picture @ themarinecenter.com (http://www.themarinecenter.com/goldendwarfeel.htm) http://www.rcamussi.hpg.com.br/Moreia1.jpg

Article about A Serpent in your Reef Tank: A look at Fish-Safe eels (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/fm/)
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fishnjiro/ocean/hawaiidivep/anfi7.jpg

criccio here on the boards has one, and is looking to add a second to his tank. Hope that helps.

[skattabrain]

fish safe is one thing.... a small snow flaske is fish safe, how about inverts.... crabs, shrimps, stars, snails etc....

[johnrags1234]

Skattabrain- A snow flake isnt gauranteed to be fish safe, but it might be. It definately isnt safe with shrimps/snails/crabs, so you most ikely wont have much of a clean up crew.

John

EDIT kennerd- the first photo looks much more like G. Milliras to me. This is the species I have, and it grows 23- 26 inches, not the 8-11 that meletremus does. That is a good picture however! The second picture looks alot more like meletremus to me. as does the picture found on the TMC page.

John

[kennerd]

It was just a pic I found from doing a quick MS search, and was in Psanish.

[skattabrain]

correct, when i said fish safe.... i should have really been saying mine was fish safe, i had small fish in the tank too...

i do think that if you get a small one, they jsut aren't that aggressive.

but inverts??? no way would i trust it. mine was ok, but he was getting more and more aggressive as he got bigger.

[skattabrain]

that article linked above is good... i will add to my experience that i never ever fed live food.

always prepared food, like VHP.

on a side note.... the term reef safe means what?

won't feed on coral?
won't feed on fish?
won't feed on crustaceans?
all 3?
2 of the above?

if anyone knows of an eel that would leave shrimp and small fish alone, and wasn't in the "rarely survives category".. you'll be my hero!

would the Golden Dwarf Moray, Gymnothorax melatremus - be considered all 3?

[johnrags1234]

Skattabrain- I must be your heroe since I know:D.

As I said before, G. meletremus will not eat small fish . It is just too small to consume them. I absolutely love these guys, especially in there PURE yellow form. They are too expensive for me to justify the cost, and I couldnt find one when I bought G. milliras for 200 shipped. I know Themarinecenter.com has the occasionaly, and will be willing to get one for anyone wanting one.

HTH!

John

[kennerd]

Originally posted by kennerd
criccio here on the boards has one, and is looking to add a second to his tank.

Probably your best bet to contact him for a tru personal experience.

In reading up these little guys only get to a MAX size of rouhgly 10.5 inches, and are the thickness of your pinky. NOt much they can fit in their mouths!

Another link with species data: data (http://www.vibrantsea.net/golden28_anilao12.html)

and color morphs from the same page (http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.cfm?ID=7284)

[skattabrain]

are these guys secretive, or social like a snowflake?

$200!

yikes

[johnrags1234]

I would say they are more secretive with the research I have done on them. MNot like they totaly hide or anything, rather, they will stic their head out of their lair, but not lie in plain view.

My Miliras was $200 shipped, which I bought from a fellow RC member. However, The golden DWAR moray, (meleatremus) is just as much dough, sometimes more. The only place that I would count on realy being able to get you one is Themarinecenter.com. Last I asked, they were between 199 and 249 (plus shipping), depedning what the wholesaler wants, size, and color form.

HTH
John

[kennerd]

Bbud: the only price I've seen actually listed for the G. melatremus was $299. >zoinks<

Heck, if I hit the NY Lottery, I'll buy one for each of you that posted before me if I can get a group order. ($40M)

I'll also be replying to RC from a laptop in the carribbean.

[criccio]

FMB, I've had a Golden Dwarf Moray for about eight months now and have never had a problem with it eating any of my reef inhabitants. I have small hermits, snails, fiddler crabs, juvenile percs (1/2" in size), no problems. When it's feeding time though, watch out, he rips that krill right off the feeding stick. He is very shy, so if you are considering one, keep in mind, mine hides about 75% of the time. Also, he has never knocked anything over in my tank.
I actually have a thread going now (with minimal feedback, thanks guys;) ) asking about reefers experiences with multiple eels, because I would like to add another GDM.
I would heed earlier advise about the ribbon eels, very difficult to get them to start eating. BTW, I paid $125 locally for my guy.
Chris

[mracroman]

EEL-EEL-EEL-

GET THE EEL

[kennerd]

Originally posted by criccio

I actually have a thread going now (with minimal feedback, thanks guys;) ) asking about reefers experiences with multiple eels, because I would like to add another GDM.


Hey, that's why I mentioned you earlier in the thread!! :D

I PM'd you about your little guy, begging for some pics..let's see 'em!

[criccio]

Here you go Kennerd, not the best pics because he's just to shy.

[criccio]

nice pic huh, let me try this again.

[Tusken]

I allways wanted an eel too. So i decided to go for it and added a snowflake to my otherwise peacefull reef tank.

I "had" a large sally crab in there.
The eel sniffed that crab out like a bloodhound and attacked like a snake. Pretty sad but hey thats nature.

Next thing that turns up missing my wifes $30 purple firefish. Told my wife it probably jumped out and the cats ate it.

The eel has burrowed out a large cave in the sand under my rocks. This doesnt bother me but he does stir up sand alot.

It doesnt bother my cleaner shrimp at all. In fact they go try to steal food from the eel when im feeding it.

Serpent star has moved in with the eel.

Snails are ignored by the eel.

Clown fish attack it when it comes near their shrooms.

Regal tang tail slaps the eel whenever it gets bored. My tang is funny. He like to play with everything. Likes flip over all my conchs and drop them way up on the rocks. Freaked me out the first time i found a conch way up on the rocks. Then I busted him doing it.

He hasnt nocked over any corals, but i dont have many and the ones i do are epoxied on the rocks.

Anyhow thats my experience with a snowflake. Overall im happy with him and dont plan on ever getting rid of it.

[kennerd]

Chris emailed me the pictures, so I cropped them up down and threw them on my site in order to share

http://home.earthlink.net/~obrienken/_uimages/eel2.JPG

http://home.earthlink.net/~obrienken/_uimages/eel3.JPG

And last, one @ feeding time.

http://home.earthlink.net/~obrienken/_uimages/eel_feeding.JPG

[stresco]

Eels are TOO KOOL. I'm new to the whole aquarium thing and the first thing i got is a Hawaiian Dragon. He is always out, and eats well. I don't have any other fish in there with him yet, but he doesnt bather my cleaning crew. Hers a pic.

[kennerd]

Where are you located in NY?

[stresco]

I'm In Dutchess County, rite by the Beacon Newburgh Bridge.

[stresco]

I'm In Dutchess County, rite by the Beacon Newburgh Bridge.

[johnrags1234]

Hey everyone!

I get trhe email flyer fr4o themarinecenter.com on availability and new items.

Anywho, they have a g. melatremus, the golden DWARF moray right now! It might not be listed yet but if your interested you could email them.

John