Clowns you can't buy and why. Back to the Top once more.

[Project Reef]

I just could not let this die. Please keep any non-constructive comments to yourself so this thread will not get closed like the last one.

This awesome information was orignally posted by
Eco-Tropic

Clowns you can't buy and why.
I know this isn't the Letterman top ten list, but people often ask why can't I buy that clown. This is based on many years and several thousand dollars worth of phone calls. I open it up to debate!

Clowns you can't buy and why.

Amphiprion chagosensis - Except for the island of Chagos, only accessible by boat, the chargos archipelago is a military no entry zone. Bombing missions to the middle east fly out of Diego Garcia which is an island located in the archipelago.

Amphiprion chrysogaster - Very, very rarely collected. Collecting trips to Mauritius are difficult to organize as there are very few facilities on the island. No large scale collecting in this part of the world.

Amphiprion fuscocaudatus - Seychelles Republic does not allow collecting without a scientific permit. Aldabra, considered by some to be the Galapagos of the Indian Ocean, is a United Nations World Heritage Site and is also managed by the Seychelles Islands Foundation. The atoll is virtually off limits to visitors unless special permission is granted through the SIF. In short you have two bureaucracies to deal with should you ever wish to collect this fish.

Amphiprion latifasciatus - I managed to gain access to 8 sub-adult specimens about six months ago. They came to me from a wholesaler who got them from a friend of a friend that didn't know what he had. They were sold as Amphiprion clarkii. From what we could tell they came from the Comoro Islands. I suspect they may have come from Kenya. I've never found a valid reason as to why this fish wouldn't be available form the same Kenyan collectors that export allardi. I have a couple of wholesalers looking into it.

Amphiprion leucokranos - The "Cap Clown" is obtainable if your willing to wait a year or so. I, like many others, questions its true validity as a separate species. I include it in the equation because it can be difficult if not impossible to obtain.

Amphiprion mccullochi - Mccullochi is not found at Norfolk Island where many of the latezonatus specimens come from. It is only found at Lord Howe which is a United Nations World Heritage Site. Collecting for commercial or recreational purposes is strictly forbidden. Scientific permits are only issued after review by NSW fisheries and the Lord Howe Island Board.

Amphiprion omanensis - The Sultan of Oman is not real keen on people, particularly westerners, coming in and touching his animals. Since the only place you can find these fish is within the territorial waters of the Sultanate of Oman you can petty much forget about it. Last time I enquired the Sultan flat out said "no collecting permits of any kind"! Long Live the Sultan. Who am I to argue with a monarch?

Amphiprion thiellei - When I initially posted this rant I had made mention that Amphiprion Theillei was named after Albert J. Thiel. This is not correct! This fish was named after a guy named Michael Thielle. This was a grievous error on my part, and my apologies go out to Mike and Dr. Burgess. I would like to further add that there has been a misconception that this fish was only described by Warren Burgess based on two holotypes obtained from a pet store. This information, while a prevalent theme in popular literature is incorrect. There were perhaps fifteen to twenty or so specimens obtained by Mike and a few were sent to Dr. Burgess. Burgess has at least 4 preserved. Couple this information with the fact that they are available through a Japanese distributor - http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbulleti...threadid=109802 - and you can understand my shift in position. I still rate this fish as nearly impossible to obtain.

Amphiprion tricinctus - I have been able to get a few specimens of tricinctus from time to time. I don't know why they are not available all the time. You can certainly buy Marshall Islands live rock from any number of sources. I was told that collectors avoid it like the plague as it is a terrible shipper. All the ones I have ever purchased had sever brooklynella infestations. My thought is that if the collectors used formalin up front and charged way more for this fish it would be a money maker. Maybe they don't see it that way!

[barebottoms]

Amphiprion chagosensis
http://www.cautiouscoral.com/images/fish/58.jpg

Amphiprion chrysogaster
http://www.aquariumworld.com/images/marine/amphipr_chryso.jpg

Amphiprion fuscocaudatus
http://www.cautiouscoral.com/images/fish/65.jpg

Amphiprion latifasciatus
http://cgr.photo.free.fr/photo/mer/poissons/amphiprion%20x/latifasciatus%20006.JPG

Amphiprion leucokranos
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/DamselPIX/Clownfishes/Amphiprion_leucokranos2.jpg

Amphiprion mccullochi
http://www.cautiouscoral.com/images/fish/69.jpg

Amphiprion omanensis
http://www.cautiouscoral.com/images/fish/72.jpg

Amphiprion thiellei
http://www.cautiouscoral.com/images/fish/78.jpg

Amphiprion akindynos
http://www.graphic.com.br/reef/tricinctus.jpg

[Project Reef]

Barebottoms. Thank you for posting those pictures.

The A. Tricinctus in your picture is wrong. That is an A. Akindynos. I understand why you posted that picture for. Google and other various internet seach engines and many websites themselves horribly confuse the two for some reason.

This is a picture of a true A. Tricinctus. This picture is a pair of a fellow reef central reefer, Swallop's awesome pair of A. Tricinctus.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=637357

[Project Reef]

(Tiger Shark this is for you).

This site here is a wonderful source of easy to understand and accurate information on clownfish.

http://wish.wodonga.tafe.edu.au/kwaldon/species.htm

[jacobdol]

to be honest that tricinctus looks just like omanensis ;)

[bcjm]

It does not have the forked tail like the omanensis.

[jacobdol]

the quality of the picture is not good. I think if you look closer you will see the fork like end. or maybe it is my vivid imagination..:smokin:

[Project Reef]

Jacobdol, the fish pictured there is an A. Akindynos, no question about it.

The coloration in the two pictures when compraing the A. Akindynos and the Omanensis may be somewhat similar but they are different fish.

The Akindynos pictured is most likely a full grown adult, 4-5" and fat. I seen over 30 of them in the last week that have come in that size.

[barebottoms]

Amphiprion tricinctus FIXED
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/505/15092three_1.jpg

Carlos Or any Mod. Can you fix the post? There is an edit timer now

[Carlos]

Great thread. Thank you all for taking the time to get the thread started and for transfering the information from that previous thread.

This thread is very informational and is now tagged at the top.

Carlos

[Norm R]

Excellent info. Thanks for posting.

[Project Reef]

Originally posted by Norm R
Excellent info. Thanks for posting.

I just want to make it perfectly clear that Eco-Tropic is the one we all should be thankful to. He put a lot of energy into getting this information out to us.

[McSierra]

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/other/amphiprion_percula.htm
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/clownfishcare/ Has Pop-Ups
http://www.masla.com/clownfish.html
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clwnfshanefaqs.htm
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~laurelma/
http://animalatlas.com/encyclo/marine/clowns/truepercula.htm

[jacobdol]

I am designing a web site with a forum that is going to be dedicated to clownfish only. It is still under construction. If you guys have some ideas let me know. the url is www.clownfishes.info
thanks.

[LargeAngels]

I am glad that Project Reef revitalized this thread started by eco. I too also do not believe the A. leucokranos is a seperate species and I also doubt A. thiellei is.

I ran across an old issue of Aquarium Frontiers Issue from the summer of 94 last night. In it there is an article about Papua New Guinea by Allan Storace. In that article there are two very interestering pictures, which I will try and post later. The first one is a picture of three clowns together. A. chrysopterus, A. leucokranos, and A. sandrocinos.

The second picture is of two clowns, one is A. sandaracinos and the second looks like a cross between A. leucokranos x A. thiellei.

Also check this site out for the numerous combinations.

http://wish.wodonga.tafe.edu.au/kwaldon/hybrids.htm

None of the 6 A. leucokranos I had were very similar. All had slightly different markings.

[Rare Angels]

It would be great to see those pictures. I had two A. leucokranos before and they both looked identical, just my two cents worth.

[Dustin]

Are you guys listing akindynos as a clown you can't get? I wasnt sure what that picture was for.

Dustin

[Project Reef]

Originally posted by Dustin
Are you guys listing akindynos as a clown you can't get? I wasnt sure what that picture was for.

Dustin

Hey Dustin,

No. That picture was put up orignally labeled "A. Tricinctus". Carlos went back and corrected the title to "A. Akindynos".

LargeAngels, check your PM bud.

[jeffsz28]

i know whats it is like to want a fish or something else that is cool or rare- but if these fish are protected or no way to get them-don't you think that is good.... that way that won't be killed off from over collecting and petstores that don't take care of them.

[Project Reef]

Originally posted by jeffsz28
i know whats it is like to want a fish or something else that is cool or rare- but if these fish are protected or no way to get them-don't you think that is good.... that way that won't be killed off from over collecting and petstores that don't take care of them.

I see your point but you have to remember that your average run of the mill reefer who "likes clownfish" with a 55 gallon tank, p.c.'s and a bleached "sebae" anemone will have a very hard time getting these fish, because A) They most likely won't have the drive/passion it takes to obtain these fish and B) They won't be willing to pay the high prices and go through the effort it takes to obtain these fish. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the demand for these fish isn't that high. Of course we 'ooh' and 'ahh' at such covetet rarities, but when it comes time to take the necessary action to obtain these fish, most people will pass and go with a pair of gold stripped maroon's instead.

The people who are sincerely interested in obtaining the fish listed, I would say 95% of them, go through the hardships, and then strive to Breed them. That is their main goal and their main reason to obtaining the fish. Sure there are some that do it just because they like to own the more uncommon fish in the trade but the majority do it to Breed them.

That is just one of the beautiful things about clownfish that make them so attractive - Unlike many other marine fish, Clownfish are Breedable fish. Although some might be more difficult than others, there is a still a very good chance that with consistent persistence, it will be done. Now, If that is your main goal then IMO it's very honorable. Even if you are doing it with $ as your number one objective.

Perhaps one day when these clowns along with other marine fish are repetitively reproduced just like freshwater fish then we can lay off "wild" reef fishes in general.

[LargeAngels]

Well put Project Reef. My obsession with clowns was with the intent on breeding these wonderfull fish. Since I could remember I was fascinated by these colorfull striped fish that seemed to dance within the tentacles of their host.

I does take a deep pocket, dedication and a real passion to be able to get some of these fish as few come in to the country and you have to have contacts in place and not think twice about the price when you can get them, unfortunately, otherwise someone else may get them.

[KORE(67)]

Thanks for all the info on the clowns.....I dont no if it is as rare to get them in Australia as it is in the USA........but Im lookin into breeding clownfish of all species, and they might be the ones i will target......:D

[JHardman]

Originally posted by KORE(67)
Thanks for all the info on the clowns.....I dont no if it is as rare to get them in Australia as it is in the USA........but Im lookin into breeding clownfish of all species, and they might be the ones i will target......:D

I have a feeling that some of the clownfishes in "the list" maybe more available in Australia than other places simply because they are native to the area. I know the A. Mcullochi that have been turning up in Japan lately have been coming from an Australian wholesaler. I do not know the name of the wholesaler, the person that has that name, will not tell me. I know the wholesaler is pretty big as they have a $25,000 minimum commitment (per month) to purchase from them.

If you find any A. Mccullochi, I have a $250USD finder’s fee for anyone helping me locate and get a healthy pair in my tank. So pass the word down under. :beer:

[KORE(67)]

Yeah I got a msg off you before about them....sorry...no luck yet....i think i might try some places in Western Australia.... Might Have Some more luck.....:D

[McSierra]

Doing more homework on Anemonefish I found:

Symbiotic Map of Clowns & Anemones (http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/marinedepotlive/AnemoneSymbioticMap.htm)

Thought this should be posted here..!

[Barooze]

If you find any A. Mccullochi, I have a $250USD finder’s fee for anyone helping me locate and get a healthy pair in my tank. So pass the word down under.

Best of luck if you think $250.00 is going to convince anyone to sell a pair of $4000.00 dollar fish to you. I know that eco-topic offered a guy in Japan 18K for 4 pairs and the guy still wouldn't sell them. If you think you will find a wholesaler "down under" be my guest in wasting your time and money. Despite what some people will tell you they are just never available, and when they are poached from the wild they are sold to someone in Asia.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Barooze
Best of luck if you think $250.00 is going to convince anyone to sell a pair of $4000.00 dollar fish to you. I know that eco-topic offered a guy in Japan 18K for 4 pairs and the guy still wouldn't sell them. If you think you will find a wholesaler "down under" be my guest in wasting your time and money. Despite what some people will tell you they are just never available, and when they are poached from the wild they are sold to someone in Asia.

I think you are a little out of date there. The lead to the wholesaler in AU was from Eco, so unless he is in the business of lying I tend to trust his words.

And in fact there have been a couple people from down under that have already reported back that their LFS do see A. Mccullochi from time to time.

Your price is off too. There was a pair that sold at New Face (LFS) in Japan recently for about $2000USD. They are available, but on a very limited basis, and no they are not illegally collected, there is a sea mount that they collect from that is outside the bounds of the park.

And the $250USD is a finders fee. It has nothing to do with trying to get someone to sell a pair. It is for people that are willing to help me locate a pair for sale.

[Kengar]

looks like a damsel to me! 2k or 4K? no way!

[Project Reef]

Hey guys, how do Mccullochi clowns fair in warmer water? Say 79-81 degrees F.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Project Reef
Hey guys, how do Mccullochi clowns fair in warmer water? Say 79-81 degrees F.

I doubt they would thrive. The waters that they come from is a mixing point for cool southern waters and warm northern waters. The temps in Lord Howe Bay range from about 71°F to about 77°F. So they would likely survive, but I doubt they would be nearly has happy with something more like 73°-75°F.

[Barooze]

Eco-tropic, aka. Jeff is a personal friend. I have family in the business in Bahrain who have been helping him obtain omanensis. I wasn't trying to knock your quest, just wishing you the best of luck. I have heard eco-tropic say in the last couple weeks he thought it would be almost impossible to obtain a pair of mccullochi. I'm certain proving him wrong would put a smile on his face. Good luck to you my friend.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Barooze
Eco-tropic, aka. Jeff is a personal friend. I have family in the business in Bahrain who have been helping him obtain omanensis. I wasn't trying to knock your quest, just wishing you the best of luck. I have heard eco-tropic say in the last couple weeks he thought it would be almost impossible to obtain a pair of mccullochi. I'm certain proving him wrong would put a smile on his face. Good luck to you my friend.

I haven't heard from Jeff in a awhile. He did not return my last email, but I know he is working hard on another project.

Yes I know it is an up hill battle to get these fish, but hey if one doesn't try, one can not succeed. :D

[KORE(67)]

Hey JHardman, the place i said over here where the guy sells em cheap, says if he does get them in (which he rarley does) he sells em for the price of normal clowns.....:D...he a bit slow in the rare fish=high price department....:D....but i dont think he will get any in for a while.....because he mainly uses a Queensland stocker....:(


PS. normal price of pair of clowns around $50-$80AUS.....:p

[JHardman]

Originally posted by KORE(67)
Hey JHardman, the place i said over here where the guy sells em cheap, says if he does get them in (which he rarley does) he sells em for the price of normal clowns.....:D...he a bit slow in the rare fish=high price department....:D....but i dont think he will get any in for a while.....because he mainly uses a Queensland stocker....:(


PS. normal price of pair of clowns around $50-$80AUS.....:p

Whatever you do, never tell him about ReefCentral. :D

[KORE(67)]

Instead of tellin him about reef central...i'll just not tell him about the net:p

[barebottoms]

JHardman,

I was talking to my LFS owner (Eddie at Tropical Paradise for those in the Bay Area) tonight. I was asking if he ever saw an A.Mccullochi... now this is all hear say from Eddie. Maybe Eco can chime in on this...

He asked what they looked like, I describe the brown, almost black body, white snout, white line like a tomato. He responded with I know what you're talking about they come out of AU right? I said Yup. He then said they are not as rare as you think. I know a distributor to buy them from, the only thing is that you have to buy 5 of some kind of angels from this distributor and this distributor will sell them to you. He said at $5 each (I question this one), but the angels go for $1000 each.

Take this info with a grain of salt. But thats what he told me. Again, I hope Eco has some info on this because I can at least hope now :D

[JHardman]

I don't think Jeff aka Eco is posting here anymore. Too bad to, he is missed!

I think you are on the right track, smells a little fishy. :D

I know they have been showing up in Japan thru a Australian wholesaler that has a steep $25,000 per month minimum commitment to buy from them. Which sounds somewhat similar to the "buy $5K of angles and I'll throw in the Mccullochi".

They are also known to show up down under in some of the LFS there. I think there is a fair chance of getting some pairs out of Australia.

Ask Eddie to check out the deal. Get more information etc. You never know, he might be right.

[barebottoms]

Will do, so how many angels should I put you down for ;)

[ClownFishTycoon]

Intresting, about the Mccullochii's just to shed a little light on this some wholesalers say they can get them and alot of the collectors say that too. In all reality there just blowing smoke out you know where. Or they say they can get them but, they want you to buy 6 conspics just to get your foot in the door and then after that they can't seem to find what you are looking for. I've been trying to get Mcc's for quite some time and have been down most ave.s to get them I'm afraid they really can't be had from Japan since most dealers don't have
export licences and the ones who do aren't going to waste their time on $10,000 of fish or gaurentee they will come alive so you will just be throwing money down the toilet. Sorry to burst some bubbles but, that is just the way it is.

Jesse

[Barooze]

swaalop? You must be the Jesse that eco was speaking of to me over the phone. He said he sold you some of his personal stock, but would not elaborate on what? He speaks very highly of you. We should be getting some omanensis soon after the war is done and I know he will be sending some your way.

[kris4647]

I heard the Omanensis rumor about six months ago. Is there any substance to it? Or should I say production [Fish in Tanks]? Need pics for that one. By the way to all you who saw my earlier posts for Leucokranos......----Drum roll---------I scored. I got a breeding pair! I bought the pair that some of you may remember got some posts down here in Houston last year..They actually had eggs down when I bought them. These fish are very skittish and anenome dependant. I seem to recall that trait from almost all the pairs of Leuc's or Theili I've seen. Does everyone concur with that? It would go a long way to explain why they are such notoriously bad shippers [Seemingly more so than other clowns] The female is still showing mottled coloration occasionally that I've seen in other very scared or nervous fish. Wish me luck! Don't take me out of the loop if you guys see any more Leuc's I'll still probably buy more to try to get my Garage aquaculture business going.......Wish Me Luck --------Kris

[JHardman]

Kris that is awesome!!

A tip for touchy, freaky clowns, slowly lower their SG to about 1.019 or so. It seems to really calm them down and make them less prone to "freak out" and "glass breakage". It's not a cure, but it has helped me.

Keep us posted.

[kris4647]

Thanks James. She is the one that is taking the move pretty hard she has eaten a little, not much. He is doing well. I'll try your trick out this weekend...............Thanks -----------Kris

[Barooze]

Omanensis rumor? I'm not sure I understand you? Any fish captured from Oman by my uncles company, Bahrain Waterlife would be done under a special permit. Once the war in the gulf is complete, Eco-tropic is paying for the entire thing. This is an expedition by boat, so if you can calculate all the associated expenses of fuel and dive gear etcetera, you will see that none of these fish will show up in any fish store until they have been spawned and reared. I know of only one person, besides eco-tropic, who will be receiving these fish.

[ClownFishTycoon]

Barooze- Yes I am the Jesse, Jeff was talking about. He sold me a couple things
send me a PM if you want to discuss anything.


Jesse

[kcolagio]

Kris,

Congrats on the pair. :)

As JHardman said, lower the SG. The reason it helps is that it makes it easier for the fish to regulate their body's salt level as it is closer to their own internal levels. When you get closer to their levels, they don't have to work as hard to perform as much osmoregulation.

To help out more, make sure that the lights are on a timer and get an automatic feeder. The lighting changes will help it "know what to expect" (and if you can, have some sort of transition from dark to full light). The feeder will help because you won't be going up to the tank as much.

You can also try blocking off the view to the sides (and maybe the front) fro a while. Then you can slowly widen the opening (like opening curtains) as the fish get used to the new routine.

Just some ideas.

[kris4647]

Thanks for the input..They are both eating now, not great but better. I also scored a fairly large Haddoni for them to host in, that seemed to help the most. These are very nervous fish, they won't leave the anen more than an inch to get food..I think we have all had expensive fish not eat and the owner becomes more freaked out than the fish....They live in a "penthouse" tank plumbed to my reef tank filtration system. She was gravid when I bought them, I'm sure it will take a while for them to settle in to breed again..One thing at a time....I'll keep everyone posted on their progress...I'll try to follow up with pics in the future as well
[If they decide to stick their heads out of their home! ]

Barooze when I said rumor I meant about a year ago I heard from the manager of a LFS about Omanensis being on the market somewhere..No more than that. If your family can bring some in, and "the shadow" aka eco-tropic :D can breed them that would be great for the hobby and people like us who love clownfish..

[jacobdol]

kcolagio
I have a question about an automatic feeder- what kind of food can you put in there except flakes? I feed my clowns frozen and live food, is this feeder, you are talking about, designed for those? If so, what kind is this and where could I get one?
Thanks.

[kcolagio]

I was thinking of one just for flakes...just something to help form a routine for them.

You could do something for live food, but it'd be a bit different in functionaltiy. Depending on what the food is would dictate how it could be done, but let's consider something like brine shrimp...

First, brine shrimp will gather near light (as I remember...not sure if it's just the young or not though). So, we have a way of gathering them at a convenient place....

Next step, get them out of the holding vessel.... If the vessel is air tight (and we can make those out of acrylic) and has a tube going out (even if it goes straight up), then once we get them at a central location, we could push them out with air (air into an airtight container with a below-the-water-line tube would result in whatever's in the tube to go up and out...).

So, we turn on a light near the bottom of a tube, give it a few minutes, turn on an air pump that pushes air into an airtight container. The air pressure pushes the water level down, pushing water UP the tube and out into the main tank. Does double duty as a top off system and can be refilled daily (or automatically after the pump turns off).

Simple way to feed live stuff to your tank...

Of course, I am not guaranteeing that it will work as I just made it up, but if you think it through, you'll see that the concept is solid.

Hmmm...maybe I'll go design one...I'm sure there's a market....wouldn't be TOO hard...just do it in acrylic and that's easy to work with (if you have the tools).....

[jacobdol]

hmm, I keep live brine in the fridge... so we need a robot to deliver them to the feeder... please include in your design.:lol:

[kcolagio]

*evil grin*

well....I was at the hospital one time, and they had a ice cream sandwich system that was REALLY cool.

Basically, when you loaded in the appropriate number of coins, the arm would go to the next place and drop a hose. A vacuum then turned on and the hose retracted with a sandwich on it. This then moved to the ouput spot and the vacuum shut off, dropping the yummy stuff down a chute...

I'm sure something like that could be rigged, but that is beyond this subject area. Check in the DIY area. ;)

p.s. Ask, and I'll come up with something. *LOL*

[barebottoms]

Pssst.. Ice Cube dispenser in your freezer. Just make the coil smaller for brine cubes..

[squeezix]

Thanks for the info on these clowns. Damn good thing we don't see them in the trade and I hope this post won't send a rush order out to collect them.

[Mainstream Aquatics]

Many years ago, Marine Center got some Mccullochi's in. Dave Palmer, can get them. He is the one that collects the Conspicillatus angels.

Leland Foley
Mainstream Aquatics

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Mainstream Aquatics
Many years ago, Marine Center got some Mccullochi's in. Dave Palmer, can get them. He is the one that collects the Conspicillatus angels.

Leland Foley
Mainstream Aquatics

Nope. Just got off the phone with Randy. He has not had any in many years, and does not think that it is very likely that he will see any anytime soon. He said there was a new source of Conspicillatus angels so there was no reason to go to Lord Howe for collection.

[Mainstream Aquatics]

I didn't mean that you could get them from Marine Center, I meant many years ago Marine Center got some, to prove that they have been imported to the states at one time. Dave Palmer can get them if anyone can, he sends a dive team to Lord Howe at least once a year to collect the conspic's if I'm not mistaken. I'll give him a call and ask him. FWIW, the NOVA video on the great barrier reef available from Dr. Foster & Smithe, has a short video segment that shows a handfull of the McCullichi's in their natural habitat.

Leland Foley
Mainstream Aquatics

[JonL]

This might be a strecth but does any one know anything about importing fish.

[Mainstream Aquatics]

If you are so interested in getting some McCullichi's, and they've been popping up in Japan, then why not fly over get to know a retailer that gets them, and have him hold a pair for you to fly over and pick up. This might be the devotion required to get them.


Leland Foley
Mainstream Aquatics

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Mainstream Aquatics
If you are so interested in getting some McCullichi's, and they've been popping up in Japan, then why not fly over get to know a retailer that gets them, and have him hold a pair for you to fly over and pick up. This might be the devotion required to get them.


Leland Foley
Mainstream Aquatics

Already checked that out. You need to have an export license from Japan to take marine fish out of Japan, even on a small retail purchase. The problem... You have to be a citizen of Japan to get an export license, and couple that with the less than friendly nature of the country to Americans and you are SOL for getting a pair out of there. I am not saying it couldn't be done, just that it would be VERY hard to pull off.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by JonL
This might be a strecth but does any one know anything about importing fish.

Here is a link that you might find helpful.

http://www.characin.com/carey/articles/index.html

[Mainstream Aquatics]

JHardman,
If I remember correctly, someone from the Waikiki aquarium was able to bring fish back from Japan, but then again they would probalby have all of the nessesary permits.
Was the picture on your posts taken of fish in a tank, or of a wild picture?

Leland Foley
Mainstream Aquatics

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Mainstream Aquatics
JHardman,
If I remember correctly, someone from the Waikiki aquarium was able to bring fish back from Japan, but then again they would probalby have all of the nessesary permits.
Was the picture on your posts taken of fish in a tank, or of a wild picture?

Leland Foley
Mainstream Aquatics

The avatar picture was taken from this site...

http://www.seagull-club.com/newfish/newfish11.html

It was an announcement of these fish being available at a LFS called "New Face". The listed price was apx ~$1000US, I was told that they sold for twice the listed price by someone that spoke to the LFS in Japan.

[eco-tropic]

Glad to see others are having the same frustrations I had for over 6 years! I gave up last year, but I still wish you luck. Beware of anyone claiming they can get them. I have found it to be all B.S. I would still be up for poaching some if anyone else had the balls to accompany me?

[JHardman]

Originally posted by eco-tropic
Glad to see others are having the same frustrations I had for over 6 years! I gave up last year, but I still wish you luck. Beware of anyone claiming they can get them. I have found it to be all B.S. I would still be up for poaching some if anyone else had the balls to accompany me?

It's just a matter of time. Sooner or later someone (hopefully me! :D) will get their hands on some pair(s) and we can try our hand a getting a captive raised stock going.

Yes there is a lots of games and a fair amount out right fraud going on with some people claiming to have access to them. Let's see there is the old "If you buy 5 Conspicillatus Angels we can get a pair". Only to be followed by "sorry we didn't get any Mccullochi clowns, just angels...". And the "Sure, we get those from time to time." "How about a picture of the pair you have now... Nice Tomatoes you have there. :lol:"

I think the best chance of getting these is out of AU. I have talked to a couple of LFS owners there that do get them in from time to time, like 1-2 pairs about once in 2-3 years. They actually do know what they are unlike some of these "clowns" claiming to be able to get them.

Japan is a possible to. There are lots of Koi clubs that make buying trips there. They generally have all the permitting worked out months in advance. The big problem there is getting them to pick up a pair(s) of these little, cheap fish. :rolleyes:

[Jimbo327]

Make some Japanese friends! :love1:

Jim :D

[Project Reef]

Kris, awesome avatar!

Along with Mr. Nut, JHardman, Swallop AND myself of course, we have the best Avatars on R.C.

[kris4647]

Well if you have talked to me you know what my favorite fish is, I just wanted let everyone else know too. I had the picture with the Chrysopterus/Leuck pair in a carpet together but, it's a little blurry. You need to post some pics of your Theili, Ali. I'd like to see some of John's clowns as well...

[Flipper1]

Well I confirmed last week that I have a pair of a. leucokranos. After showing some pictures here and on a few other bulletin boards, I sent an email to Dr. Gerald Allen with the photos. It was his opinion that they were indeed White-caps. I attached a different photo of one.

[Dustin]

If that is a picture of your fish it is not leucokranos. Its a slightly misbarred polymnus.

Where did you get the fish?

Dustin

[kris4647]

Man thats a tough one. I'm going with Polymnus. I'd like to hear John, Ali and Bonsai's opinion though. Cool Fish!


<--------Thats my original post. I looked some more and came to the official opinion that I would really like to look some more :D
THat bar that extends down its back throws me [Teardrop from dorsal]

Got some more pics of both fish maybe....

[LargeAngels]

Yeah, I would like their opinion too. I would also like to get another shot that shows the lower jaw better. It looks a little squared like some tank raised tend to have. From the 4 pairs of leucokranos I have kept it doesn't seem like one. I'd go with tank raised polymnus.

[Project Reef]

Jeff, Eco, said that from the picture it resembles a juvi leukocranos in Flipper's main thread.

I personally don't think it's a Leukocranos but tend to go with Stefan and call it a tank raised polymnus.

[Project Reef]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/DamselPIX/Clownfishes/Amphiprion_polymnusNG.jpg

If you compare the above picture to Flipper's and pay close attention to the jaw and mouth area, they look very similar. Also notice how the "cap" is very circular and thick, just like the top portion of the Polymnus above.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Project Reef
Jeff, Eco, said that from the picture it resembles a juvi leukocranos in Flipper's main thread.

I personally don't think it's a Leukocranos but tend to go with Stefan and call it a tank raised polymnus.

Ditto. The one pictured in the main thread looks like a cap but the picture in this thread looks like a saddleback...

[Dustin]

http://www.orafarm.com/images/saddleback.jpg

http://www.orafarm.com/clownfish.html#saddleback

[Flipper1]

Another pic for your consideration...

Any thoughts on the fact that Dr. Allen also thought it to be a leuco? I see the similarities to the saddleback, but why the disconected stripe?

[LargeAngels]

I would really like to tell you that is a leucokranos, but I still believe it is a polymnus. There are some stripe deformities, at least a departure from what we are used to, in the wild and quite a bit more in tank raised. Most likely it is a tank raised polymnus.

[DensityMan]

(this may be the single-most informative post I have read since first coming to RC... wow... many thanks to all that have contributed with links and/or info. I am still fascinated and absorbing...)

[kris4647]

Flipper I wish I could tell you what you you’d like to hear, but that’s a Polymnus. No doubt with that picture. Trust me I know what its like to really want one of these fish, some of my fellow board members can document my search for Leucokranos clowns, it’s a long frustrating process. The head. jaw area and the dorsal tear drop aren’t consistent with the Leuck’s I own or have seen. Many juvenile clowns, like the one in question [IMO], will have stripes that are still developing. Over time these stripes in the head area will join and you’ll see A.Polymnus more clearly.

Or it could be a tank raised misbar. What are the circumstances under which you bought it?

[Flipper1]

Originally posted by kris4647
What are the circumstances under which you bought it?

I work part-time for a chain. Our tanks were dismantled due to renovation, and the fish were shipped to us from the distributor inadvertantly. I 'adopted' them, as there was no permanent place to keep the fish.

[dekim28]

i know this may not be along the same line as what ya'll are talking about , but i read a letter to the editor in Tropical Fish Hobbiest about a purple finned clownfish (and violet finned) has anyone got one of these or even seen one? i did an internet search but found zilch. the picture in the mag was beautiful though

[Dustin]

I saw that article in TFH too. If I remember right, those werent real fish, they were enhanced photographs. The article was discussing the future of selectively bred marine fish.


Flipper, what distributor inadvertantly shipped you the fish?

[dekim28]

I'M NOT SURE THIS WAS IN THE 12/02 ISSUE AND THE MAN SAID HE COULDN'T BELIEVE"THAT THE PURPLE-FINNED CLOWNS WERE DEVELOPED BEFORE THE ADVENT OF PSMF AND THAT PSMF WEREN'T EVEN AVAILABLE UNTIL HALFWAY THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE VIOLET VELVET CLOWNS"??

[MFish]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but ORA has A. Akindynos on thier list, this week anyway. So, I guess they ahev bred them down there in Flordia.

[I always check the ORA list when it gets faxed in to my store :D ]

[Project Reef]

Flipper, Check this picture out from Dr. Mac's site. A pair of Saddlebacks...

http://www.drmaccorals.com/sys-tmpl/clownfishpairsandanemones/view.nhtml?profile=clownfishpairsandanemones&UID=10042

[Project Reef]

Hey Kris, did you ever realize that is YOUR cap clown on the marine depot banner? Heh!

http://www.marinedepot.com/imd/1_reef_central_banner.jpg

[kris4647]

Thats Lucy?

Our eight year old named her Lucy the Leuck....She has a "penthouse" tank plumbed into my smaller reef. Great personality for a Leuck [not scared of her own fins..:D ]

[Project Reef]

Originally posted by kris4647
Thats Lucy?


Yup that's her. Marine Depot was using some of Leonard's photos for their site and mail order catalog. You should post some recent pics.

[Rare Angels]

Hey everyone,

Since we are talking about clown fish that are hard to obtain I thought I would ask this question. I know Amphiprion clarkii is very common, but I would really like to obtain some of the multiple color variations that you hear about. All I ever see are the light brown or tan colored ones.

Does anyone have any of these unusual clarkii or know where to get some?

[joetbs]

I've read that some people have come across these but was curious to know what size they were obtained at. Perhaps the smaller ones are less prone to Brook? Any pictures besides the one posted in the "Rare Clownfish..." thread?

thanks.
joe

[JHardman]

Originally posted by joetbs
I've read that some people have come across these but was curious to know what size they were obtained at. Perhaps the smaller ones are less prone to Brook? Any pictures besides the one posted in the "Rare Clownfish..." thread?

thanks.
joe

Never mind... can't read. :D

[joetbs]

Originally posted by JHardman
Never mind... can't read. :D

What? :confused: Small, medium, large?

[C_Kritter]

i'm putting this leuko in the market. email me if you're interested.

[Ilia]

Would it be possible to house a leucko with a thiellei clown? Or would it be a better idea to house them seperately? If so would a pair of thiellei's be able to survive in a 28g bow?

[LargeAngels]

Due to the rarity of the thiellie I don't know if anyone could say so for sure. I don't think anyone of us, besides maybe Eco-tropic, would ever even get the chance. Also there are some out there, myself included, that leuco's and thiellies are hybrids. There have been quite a few pictures taken of clowns in the wild in which they have been found with other clowns such as Chrysopterus and sandrocinos. A really good article was in the summer of 1994 issue of Aquarium Frontiers. There is more info on RC, just do a search. But until someone does a thorough scientific investigation of these two fish they are considered true species.

With that said I believe they will get along.

[Ilia]

I can get my hands on theillei and leucokranos clowns.

[LargeAngels]

Are you sure they are thiellie's?

You may want to read this thread. http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=746767

There have been a couple of cases were tank raised true percs have been misidentified and sold as leucokranos. There was a thread here, I just can't remember where. Most likely they are not thiellie's and if they aren't the leucokranos may not be true either. Pictures and finding out where they are comming from would help. Unfortunately many dealers do not know their clown fish, especially when it comes to rare ones.

[Project Reef]

LA, check this link out:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217223

Ali

[LargeAngels]

Thanks PR.

[kali77]

Ilia,
where exactly is this store located, and do they still have the clowns available.

Gene

[Ilia]

Edit

[Ilia]

The store has one thiellei clown which is not for sale but has been there for 3 months. The will be getting more leoucks soon. Reef Encounter is located in Hackensack,Nj.

Ilia

[Algae Blenny]

The funny thing about this thread is that it started out as a thread to name the unobtainable clownfish of the seas, and has turned into a plot to befriend a Japanese American person so they can smuggle or export to us a small amount of rare clownfish.:lol:

[deepblue68]

hi jacobdol
i just took a look at your clownfish website. nicely done. i am going to go back tonight when i have a little more timeto read. iam picking up my first two clowns on monday (two percula). i cant wait!!!!!!

[The Aquarist]

Eco - Tropic. I am not familiar with this place. Do they have a website?

[ofblong]

I did not read this whole thread but is there somewhere that explains the cost of obtaining one of these clowns? I really like the one that was debated about on the first page.

[eco-tropic]

Originally posted by The Aquarist
Eco - Tropic. I am not familiar with this place. Do they have a website?

Not for a few years now. Eco-tropic is no longer in business. The ship went down with that large sucking sound of capitol flowing out the Northern California economy.

[Algae Blenny]

My Dad's friend said a Petland was selling a yellow clown for $130 and that was yellow. I cant get a pic or go to thee store. Any ideas, or was it just a petland mess up?

[The Aquarist]

Originally posted by eco-tropic
Not for a few years now. Eco-tropic is no longer in business. The ship went down with that large sucking sound of capitol flowing out the Northern California economy. Sorry to hear that. It sounds like it was a really respectable business. That large sucking sound gets around.:(

[lexusboy]

I just want to make sure that I got a pair of clarkiis, sorry if I post in wrong thread. But are these guys clarkiis?

[Project Reef]

Originally posted by lexusboy
I just want to make sure that I got a pair of clarkiis, sorry if I post in wrong thread. But are these guys clarkiis?

Ya they are clarkiis.

[lexusboy]

thanks I just wanted clarifaction, the lfs is not always right. Do they look good for clarkiis? Also I believe it is a pair, the lfs had them seperate but they looked like they went together, they seem to do what is posted in another thread about swimming together and stuff like that, so I am glad they weren't seperated at the lfs. :)

[Marcus K]

Is it common to find clowns that are unique to there type. I have a Maroon that is missing its gill spine.

Marcus. sorry the pics are a bit blurry, not successful at getting her to pose.

[shay]

A. Leucokranos,latezonatus,Akindynos are avilable at Drs. Foster and Smith. Check the collector's corner.

[kris4647]

I hear the sounds of footsteps running towards the phone.......Never seen Lats or Lueck's for sale by a big name like F&S. And $99, ouch. I'm not tellin anyone how much I paid for either of mine..............

[Rich the Newb]

Originally posted by JHardman
Already checked that out. You need to have an export license from Japan to take marine fish out of Japan, even on a small retail purchase. The problem... You have to be a citizen of Japan to get an export license, and couple that with the less than friendly nature of the country to Americans and you are SOL for getting a pair out of there. I am not saying it couldn't be done, just that it would be VERY hard to pull off.
I wouldn't be impossible to board a plane with a few clowns in your carry-on luggage. A friend told me a story of a guy bringing back a 6" or so asian arowana in a backpack from Malaysia. (18 hr or so plane ride)

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Rich the Newb
I wouldn't be impossible to board a plane with a few clowns in your carry-on luggage. A friend told me a story of a guy bringing back a 6" or so asian arowana in a backpack from Malaysia. (18 hr or so plane ride)

And when they check your bags, and they will in this day and age of terrorism, you will be facing federal smuggling charges that not only include heavy fines, but time in the federal penitentiary assuming that the Japanese do not get you first. Ever watch OZ on HBO?

[Rich the Newb]

Originally posted by JHardman
And when they check your bags, and they will in this day and age of terrorism, you will be facing federal smuggling charges that not only include heavy fines, but time in the federal penitentiary assuming that the Japanese do not get you first. Ever watch OZ on HBO?
True, that was a few years back.......before we were living in fear. :(

[thetedinator]

Interesting thread. Thanks

[trueblackpercula]

has there been any update as to thouse rare clown fish when they will be available?omanenis or mucculici

[karl wagner]

How hard is it to find A. allardi?

[Project Reef]

Karl, they are very hard to find as well.

[kris4647]

Karl,

Try here:

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?sw&1070804314

[JHardman]

Originally posted by kris4647
Karl,

Try here:

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?sw&1070804314

ROTFLMAO

I go checkout the link and the guys auctions for several A. allardi. Not a single bid, check back just a few ago, and every single one has a bid. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tell us they look when you get them in. The place looks like a neat idea.

[oama]

I see even Proaquatix is using that forum.
My job is secured. :D

[kris4647]

<<<----------------Patiently waiting for his referal/kick back fee! :)

[ClownFishTycoon]

Originally posted by JHardman
ROTFLMAO

I go checkout the link and the guys auctions for several A. allardi. Not a single bid, check back just a few ago, and every single one has a bid. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Will do! but it is too bad you have to be so sarcastic some people will do what ever it takes to get the clowns they want. You being a breeder too I find it quite insulting that you laugh at any attempts at someone trying to aquire rare clown fish and taking the chance that they may not be as advertized.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by swaalop
Will do! but it is too bad you have to be so sarcastic some people will do what ever it takes to get the clowns they want. You being a breeder too I find it quite insulting that you laugh at any attempts at someone trying to aquire rare clown fish and taking the chance that they may not be as advertized.

I am not sure where you got all that BS from...

I think that it is funny, that on one the busiest shopping days of the year, when most people are either recovering from the Thanksgiving feast, watching TV, or out shopping for Christmas presents, that within a couple of minutes of someone posting about some rare clownfish for sale that a mass of people drop everything to get them.

It is the same laugh I get when I see hundreds of little kids rush Santa at the mall, or when one of my GSM females fly’s to the feeding station and starts dancing like a three year old that has to go to the bathroom to get her Cyclop-eeze.

Nothing sarcastic, nasty or malicious about it. If you want to take it as a bad, nasty, sarcastic and malicious statement so be it.

[ClownFishTycoon]

Originally posted by JHardman
I am not sure where you got all that BS from...


I got that BS from what you said only now you are trying change what you said if people shopping on thanksgiving is what you meant then why did you not say that in the first place??? Secondly I take offence because I'm the one bidding on the fish and your laughing at the fact that they all have a bid!

[Dustin]

Take it easy buddy, I think your interpreting him the wrong way.

Dustin

[Project Reef]

Hey you silly clown pimps, I can hear Carlos coming... shhhhhh!!! He's about to bust out the belt! :D

[kris4647]

If you people can't get along with each other, I'll turn this bulletin board around right now and go back home!


BTW I have never read a reply from John being even mildly mean spirited since I started frequenting this board... My .02

[picture the reef]

I looked all over the country for a pair of allards and if I find out they were just 3 hours away I'm going to be ****ed.:D

[Carlos]

Just like the previous thread, this thread is being closed due to the fact that people cannot play nice.

Kind regards,

Carlos