Need fast help on Maroons???

[Rook]

Need Fast Advice on Pairing Maroon?????
Hello,

I have had a female gold stripped maroon for about 10months or so in my tank, hosting BTA. I just yesterday (Friday) added a second, smaller, juvenal maroon clown.

Currently the juvenal is in a small box inside of the main tank, to keep him seperated from the female, and give them time to adjust. I am thinking of a few different plans of introducing the two maroons and would like all opinions on which would seem to produce the greater likelihood of success.

1) Leave the juvenal in the seperate box for a week or so, then release and hope for the best.

2) Release the juvenal now, and hope for the best.

3) Remove both the juvenal and the female to the qt tank, divide the tank in half, leave them seperate for a week, release them together in the qt, then once accustom to each other, place back into main tank with BTA.

If it is not obvious, I was originally planning on option 3. I thought that this would break up the female's territory and give the juvenal a greater likelihood of pairing. But, Wilkerson's book makes it seem that option 1 or 2 may be better because the female will have more dominance over the juvenal and perhaps increase the likelihood of the juvenal giving in to the female.

I need to decide today about this, so any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

(also posted under "Marine Fishes" and "Fish Breeding" forums)

[ausnakeguy1]

In ideal situations its best to have the smaller of the two in the tank already established, then to add the larger one after the little one has been established. Thats how I've done it and have had good sucesses with it. The larger fish will still exert dominance but the little one will have the claim on the tank first allowing him a little more "authority" as it would be. JMO

I would take the larger Clown out, put in quaranteen tank as long as the Qtank water is safe, etc. Release the little marroon into the main tank and let him get fully established in there, then add back the bigger Marroon. Thats what I would do. again jmo

[Rook]

That is exactly what Wilkerson says not to do. In her book she says that you want the female to have great control and dominance over the tank so the male will not put up a fight with her, and quickly submit to the female and become a pair.

I don't know though, that is just one opinion.

[ausnakeguy1]

Wilkerson knows alot more than I do, the Female in my experiences will almost always exert her dominance over the male espically if there is an appreciable size difference. Or in otherwords the smaller fish always looses.

What you dont' want is the little fish getting over dominated and that happens alot. Maroons are also pretty fiesty little fish. I guess depending on the size differences. If you have a 2.5 inch Female and a 1 inch male. Letting the Male acclimate for 2 weeks will be nice for the male, it won't shock him nearly as much as moving them from a bag to the tank, then having him getting his butt kicked by the female while he hovers in the corner afraid to go anywhere near the open water.

I would tell you to do what you think is best. If you have large differences in size in your two clowns and put the male in, he will most likely be chased without mercy. If you have two clowns that are almost the same size not much of a diff at all, go for it.

[manderx]

they only fight when they both think they have a claim at authority. the whole point of adding a much smaller fish is so that it doesn't even try to assert itself. if they were about the same size they would certainly fight to the death.

[ausnakeguy1]

actually you add a smaller fish, becuase Clown fishes change sexes when they reach a certain size, by getting a small clown, and a large clown you are basically guaranteed a Male/Female set.

So what did you do anyways, I'mcurious.

[Eduardo]

Rook2,

Take a look to this thread

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110926

I just got success with my maroon clowns, I had to wait 6 months but finally I get my maited pair of maroon clown.

I will recommend you to put your small clown (the newer) in a separate container within the tank for at least two days, then release it and pray it. At the beginning the dominant (the older) should attack very hard the newer clown, try to help him using something to stress the older (bigger) clown, this work for me. After days 3 or 4 the fight should be occasional. Important: you must provide LR to hide, if you put your clown to a QT tank, it will be easier for the bigger clown to kill the smaller one.

After days four I will say you are on the way, observe and wait, what Joyce's book said happen to me exactly.

Eduardo

[ausnakeguy1]

I didn't use Maroons I used Oscelaris when I matched them. They are a pair, they have mated, but none of the fry lived. I put the small one in first, then put in the large one. Its alla bout size, the Large one will win no matter what. Espically if the size differece is great. I don't know what you have so I cna't say. Do it as you would like but I have a feeling you are going to follow the book and pray. The way I've done it I've never lost a clown (from my own to thoes of people in my store whom I've helped), so do as you will and I wish you the best.

[Rook]

Well after two days holding the juvenal maroon in a small container, that sat inside the display tank, I decide to release him into the main tank. While in the holding tank, the female was quite curious, and would attack toward him, and show signs of mating (the quivering). But, when I released the male, the female started hiding at first, but soon protected the bta, and attacked the male if he moved toward the bta.

The problem is that the male would fight back. For a few hours they were fight pretty hard, but now the male is on one side of the tank, and the female is protecting the bta on the other side.

The female does not chase the male beyond the area around the bta. So it doesn't seem as she wants him dead, but that she does not want him near the bta.

I seems a good sign that she does not chase him throughout the tank, but troublesome that the male fights back.

BTW, the male is about 1", and very bright red, the female is about 2-1/2 to 3" and very dark maroon.

It is difficult to tell right now, but I hope the male is realizing that the female is in charge and will soon back down.

Any thoughts????????

I would love to hear some comments. I have plenty of liverock, so the male has a lot of hiding places. I can not fit eggcrate in the tank, but the liverock fits that purpose.

Thanks for all your replies.

[Eduardo]

You just got the first step as well as I did, if you take a look to the thread I mentioned you will find that both clown get apart and the male is bright orange and the female is deep dark.

[Rook]

I did read your thread and yes it does seem as this is where you started. I hope I have as much luck as you did.

I am confident, but also worried. I gave the female a lecture tonight, but she doesn't like me much so I don't think she listened!!

I will definately keep you informed.

Are you breeding now??????

I would like to in the future. Not really to make money, but for the fun of it, and to increase tank raised animals. I would love to be able to have my bta split as well.

[ausnakeguy1]

If the little guy isn't dead your good to go. You'll be a momma soon enough we hope. :)

[Rook]

You think that if it has survived the first day, then it should be fine????

The female does not chase the male, but will not share the bta.

I hope so. I want this more than any other change I have done to may tank in 2 1/2 years.

[ausnakeguy1]

The female is not goign to just hand over the BTA, thast another reason I suggested letting the litthe guy in there first. Its like any married couple. The wife always wins in the end, even if the Husband has dominance in the beginning. :) The larger female can most definatly move the little male away if she wanted to and she can most definaly kick his butt and exert dominance over him. I think it will be okey but it will just take longer I believe. As I have never done ityour way I have always done it the way I mentioned above about letting the little guy get a little acclimated and then introducing the larger female. Hope all goes well, I have no doubt it will do just great. I recently lost my pair when my entire tank crashed while I was away for Christmas, I'm actually in the process of aclimating my smaller clown and getting him comfortalbe with the tank. I think hes trying to host my Sarchophyton Leather. When and if he does, then I'll get him the Female. :) Just nice to have them, they are so darn cute.

[Eduardo]

I am breeding but not from my maroons, I got a hatch from the LFS and this is my third attemp, the best one so far, I have 15 larvaes of tomato clowns which born yesterday at noon. Today all 15 are alive, I will create a new thread because the larvaes remain most of the time at the bottom which I doubt be normal.

[ausnakeguy1]

Jokingly......Its all the heavy metals in the IO salt that your using, its weighting your poor larvea down. :)

[Rook]

Well this morning, before the lights turned on, and shortly thereafter, the female seemed to be leaving the male alone, and the male kept his distance on the opposite end of the tank.

Then I decided to feed them. The female refused to allow the male to eat, and really started chasing and attacking the male. Luckily the male was no longer fighting back, and would just run off to find a hiding spot. This was the first time the female actually left the bta to seek out and attack the male. I was getting a bit worried.

But,

About an hour ago, I watched as the female went to the male in a pseudo attack, but without actually attacking. Then the female stayed close to the male, and the male turned sideways and shuddered as if scared.

Definately a good sign. I have since seen this happen a good half dozen times in about an hour.

According to Wilkerson's book, this is a sign that the male has given into the female, and that the two are on their way to becomming mates.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Hopefully all works out, but now I am feeling quite confident that it will.

Thanks, and I will update if there are any changes.

[ausnakeguy1]

YEAH.....good job...I think getting clowns mated is alot like making a bed, there are alot of different ways to go about it but the outcome is the same. Seems as though Clown matings are the same as human. The woman nags the man and breaks his will and then they get married...same with clowns its all about nature. :)

[Rook]

Update.

Now the two clowns are happily living together inside of the bta. It appears as though they will be a pair after all. Also, the female is already protective of her new found friend.

Hopefully they will now mate as well.

[ausnakeguy1]

YEAH.......Rook, looks like you gonna become a Grandmamma. :) At least I think your a girl. :)

[Rook]

Nope.

[Eduardo]

Hey Rook,

I impressed how fast yours get mated pair. Excelent !!!! It's very nice to see both clown swimming together.

[ausnakeguy1]

Oppppps :rolleyes: Okey your gonna be a grandpa/daddy here shortly. :) Sorry bout that.