need suggestions- tank cyle "stuck"

[bori]

Hi again everyone, Let me know if I'm doing something wrong or if I'm just being impatient. I started to cycle my tank w/ dead shrimp on or about thanksgiving, 2002. Didn't start to test water for about 1 week to 10 days after because the sand storm wouldn't let me get a correct reading. Once the storm settled I began testing every other day, never got an ammonia reading but my NO2 has been over 25 & NO3 above 50 consistently. I have about 15-20lbs of dead rock in there now & recently added 20lbs. of "Florida Live Sand." Since adding the live sand my water is CRYSTAL CLEAR, beautiful, but deadly. My ammonia went up slightly when I added live sand & dropped to zero today but my NO2 & NO3 are stuck at 25 & 50. Was contemplating doing a 25% water change, but heard that wasn't recommended during the cycle. I don't plan to add any LR for about another month. Should I just wait it out & see if it neutralizes itself? I'm not feeding anything, only doing top-offs, so why are levels still so high after 2 months? Thanks for any help you have to offer. --Rob--

[JDS]

really not terribly longtime for cycle. I no IT CAN BE painfully slow waiting that's why a lot of people like to use live rock to do it tends to go little faster. The only thing I'm wondering is how OLD is your tests equipment because it seems kinda strange that your nitrite and nitrate's don't seem to be changing at all. Maybe you should BRING a water sample TO your LFS and let them test for you. You never NO maybe your test kits not reading right.

[slimytadpole]

I didn't see any mention of an RO/DI unit. Get a clean 5 gallon bucket, mix up a couple gallons of salt water, let it sit for a day, and test it. If you find detectable nitrates, you'll know that's your problem.

I really think a RO/DI unit is indispensible for keeping a reff tank.

[DgenR8]

I'm thinking that you need to verify the test results too. If you have an expired test kit, that could be the answer. Your source water could also be to blame, but double check the test results first. You could be banging your head against the wall for nothing.

[bori]

Hi again everyone, thanks for the input
The only thing I'm wondering is how OLD is your tests equipment because it seems kinda strange that your nitrite and nitrate's don't seem to be changing at all.
JDS, I'm using a MultiTest kit (Marine Basic) from SeaChem & Saliferts for Ca & ALK/KH(which I really have no need for at this point). I just recently purchased them, w/in the last 2 months. SeaChem includes reference samples to compare suspect readings & after running test w/ references they (the reference samples) read correct according to SeaChem.

I didn't see any mention of an RO/DI unit.
Slimytadpole, I'm using a 100gpd ro/di unit. Tank was initially filled with ro/di water & top-offs are also ro/di. Get a clean 5 gallon bucket, mix up a couple gallons of salt water, let it sit for a day, and test it
I have 10 gallons on hand pre-mixed & aerated w/ ph. I just tested a sample & reads 0 amm, 0 NO2, 0 NO3.

I'm thinking that you need to verify the test results too.
Hi Larry, I gotta leave to work in a few, but I will take a sample to my LFS & have it checked first chance I get. If I get the same readings at the lfs. What next? Wait it out or water change?
My readings as of 1/19/2003 are:
Temp. =81.5*F, ph= 8.2, SG=1.026, Free Amm=0, Total amm= 0-.02,NO2=(off chart) 25+, NO3(off chart) 50+, CA=310, ALK=3.1.
Oh, & I rarely (1 or 2 a week) keep lites on.

Thanks Fellas! --Rob--

[clk2609]

did you cure the live rock during thanksgiving or put it all in tank and let it cure on its own? live rock could still be curing.
i cure all liverock i receive, even if it supposdely was already
"cured"

[bori]

did you cure the live rock during thanksgiving or put it all in tank and let it cure on its own?
clk2609, no live rock was ever put in tank. I had about 20 lbs of dry, base rock I put in so it can be colonized w/ bacteria. It was stored for years & I boiled it all before putting it into tank. I do notice that it has some "peeling." Looks like remnants of tubes that feather duster worms left behind. But I don't think this would create at problem. Only about a 2" area on 1 rock. --Rob--

[DgenR8]

A water change is never a bad thing. You have nothing to lose, except salt and water, and they're easily replaced.

[bori]

A water change is never a bad thing.
Larry I always read that water changes during the cycle was not recommended, but depending on the test results my LFS gives me I might not have a choice. I'd really like to see all levels down to 0 on their own. --Rob--

[Im Lon 2]

I would do a water change. and see what happens like DgenR8 siad A water change is never a bad thing. You have nothing to lose, except salt and water, and they're easily replaced.

There was a post a week or so ago on water changes durning a cycle and I beleave the out come was to do it. and like Dr Ron Shimek says in his bookThe Coral Reef Aquarium The Soluton to pollution is dilution which he quoted in his book so I do not know if this is actually his quote.

HTH

[DgenR8]

I guess water changes during a cycle could prolong the cycle, but lowering toxins in the water will help preserve more of whatever life may exist in the system. I see, looking back over this thread that you only have live sand. Depending on the source, that could mean just bacteria, or bacteria and worms, snails, pods, or if it was that "bag 'O live sand" from the LFS, you probably got nothing but wet sand :(
Get some live rock in there! You are cycling now, just to cycle again when you add the live rock.
There has to have been ammonia in order for you to now see nitrite, and nitrate, BTW

[bori]

I guess water changes during a cycle could prolong the cycle, but lowering toxins in the water will help preserve more of whatever life may exist in the system.
Ok guys, I took a water sample to LFS. He basically got the same readings I did. Then he tried to talk me into doing a 50% water change & add a few damsels, which I readily refused. Here's what I'm going to do. As far as I can see there is no life in the tank yet. So really there is no need to dilute the toxins artificially. Going to take a step back & just wait it out. What goes up must come down, right? Especially if nothing organic is being intoduced. I understand that It'll cycle again once the rock is introduced but if I can't get passed the initial cycle properly how do I expect to handle the rest of the bumps & curves along the way to a healthy ecosystem? Ok here goes... taking a deep breath:o , & 1 step back. I'll let you know if my patience pays off. --Rob--