Several newbie questions... $2000 to spend.

[Patrick G.]

Ok, I was pretty big into the hobby about 10 years ago, but I got out of it because I was spending too much time and money on it. I had a 40 Long Reef Tank with some pretty decent fluorescent lighting, filtration, etc. I'm really interested in how the hobby has changed in the past 10 years, so I thought I'd start here. I'll list all my big questions, and if you have time to answer, I'd appreciate it.

1. I plan on having a 55 gal. reef aquarium. I will either purchase a stand and canopy or have one custom built by a friend, which is what I did 10 years ago. I'd like to start out by spending around $2000. Does this sound doable?

2. What's the best filtration to go with for a 55 gal. within my budget?

3. Best lighting for my budget?

4. Do they make an affordable heater/chiller/thermostat combo nowadays? Is a chiller necessary?

5. What's the best substrate system to use? Like what kind to use? Do I put in directly on the tank bottom or do I use a platform like egg-crate? How thick?

6. One of the things I got tired of was going to the pet store once a month and filling up 5 gal. jugs with RO water. Is RO water still the water to use, and if so, any affordable filtration systems for the home?

7. Back then, the internet obviously wasn't what it is now, so mail order livestock wasn't an option. What's the situation now? Can I just go to a website and order the fish, coral, liverock, etc. that I want, and have it delivered directly to my door for the same price as going to the pet store (or better yet, cheaper)? Is this what you guys do?

8. It seems like I remember having to setup some sort of Kalkwasser drip that continuously dripped into the tank. Is this still necessary?

9. Can someone advise me, or point me to an article website, on what ALL I should purchase for a 55 gal. reef setup. Are powerheads, wavemakers, and the like still a necessity?

10. What's the best way to keep algae from growing on the glass? Have they invented something to prevent this? It seems like they should be able to come up with an additive or something, or maybe a probe to attach to the glass that prevents any growth on the glass surface, with all this technology.

Here are a couple of pics of my previous setup:

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/patgamet/images/scan1.jpg

[SeanT]

Hi and welvcome (back) to the hobby.
I will answer as many of your questions as I can.

1. It will be a VERY tight squeeze. Maybe doable if you buy most of your equipment used.

2. An Aqua C Remora (or PRO) skimmer and a refugium. In my opinion.

3. As for lighting it depends on what kind of corals you want to keep. If just fish and rock then flourescent will do. If you want to have the ability to keep pretty much whatever you want a Dual Ballast 175 w metal halide system will do.

4. No idea about chillers. I live in North Carolina and don't need one.

5. The best substrate is very fne. sugar sized, sand. Here is a good Article to read as to what and why. (http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm)

6. Yep. RODI units for the home are all the rage. Here is the RODI Unit (http://www.aquaticreefsystems.com/Reverse_Osmosis_4Stage.htm) that I, and many others, have. It is awesome and www.aquaticreefsystems.com is a TOP NOTCH company.

7. Yes, internet ordering is good. Be sure to use one of the Reefcentral sponsors (Located at top of page or click here.) (http://reefcentral.com/sponsors/) Also go to the VENDOR EXPERIENCES forum to read reviews.

8. It is if you keep corals and the type you keep tso your calcium and alkalinity levels are up to par. Better yet get a calcium reactor.

9. No one such page exists as everyones tastes and tanks and needs are different.

10. Having a refugium and a good protein skimmer will help keep nutrients in the water low. Plus a good cleanup crew consisting of different shails helps A LOT. You will always need to scrape. :)


After all that typing I hope this helps lol

[NewMariner]

1. Are you spending 2000 bucks for just the tank and stand or for all of your equipment? If its just for the tank and stand I would definitely go larger....I got a used 180g tank for a 1000.....
I would also look at other dimensions of tanks...a 55g is a real test to try to get everything perfect with that narrow of a footprint. IMO a 58g would be better.

2. Best filtration is Live Rock, A Deep Sand Bed, some powerheads for circulation, and a good skimmer...like a cpr backpack, or an aqua remora.....Are you planning a sump?

3. Depends on what you want to keep. If you want SPS or Clams, then I would definitely go with MHs....if you just want Softies then VHO is fine...

4. Define Affordable:) A chiller isnt really necessary as long as you properly vent your canopy with enough fans.....

5. MOST people are getting on the Deep Sandbed Wagon....This is a 4-5 inch layer of sand, seeded with a sandbed activator kit...Do a search on Deep Sandbeds and you will find a wealth of info:)

6. Yea RO/DI water is still the best to use....check out www.aquaticreefsystems.com I have their 100gpd Oceanus system and love it. Also, get the drinking water Kit...your wife will love you for it:)

7. Shipping can eat you alive on livestock. Sometimes its cheaper...sometimes its not. I would say alot of people order livestock off the internet...especially those with crappy LFS around. Mail Order is a God-Send if all you have availabe around you are sick and dying fish....

8. Many people still drip Kalk. I do...for now...Im tired of having to make it up everyweek though and will soon be going to a calcium reactor. Its just another toy....its really up to you if you want to drip kalk or get a calcium reactor(less work). Your reef does need the calcium and the benefit of stabilizing your ph....

9. You can just do a search on here for new setups. See what everyone else is getting for theirs. Powerheads and wavemakers are a great tool to have. However, there are new technologies coming out, such as the Tunze Turbelle Streams(which are what Im saving up for) and some Reeftecs, and Wave2ks....All of these have been talked about extensively on RC.

10. Sure they invented something to keep algae off the glass...its Called ELBOW GREASE. all you gotta do is get a scrubber or a magnet and start scrubbing the algae off the glass:)

HTH
Tony

[NewMariner]

Doh! Sean beat me to the punch....oh well........:p

[Patrick G.]

I'll take as many opinions as I can get! Thanks a lot guys! Yeah, that figure pretty much included everything, but I'm flexible. I do plan on having a few corals, but not too many. Primarily live rock, fish, critters, and an anemone. Two more questions. You mentioned a calcium reactor instead of a Kalk drip. What exactly is this and what's the benefit? What's the diff. between a 55 gal. and a 58 gal. (other than 3 gal.)?

[Pomacanthus1]

1: $2000 sounds reasonable if you have a friend build a stand and canopy, and you buy reasonably-priced equipment. Having a friend build the stand and canopy (especially the canopy) might actually make things easier in the long run because you can customize the space you need for equipment.

I would recommend against a 55g. They are hard to aquascape (arrange the live rock in a visually pleasing way). 58 and 75 gallon are wider (makes them easier to aquascape) and the added volume will allow you to keep more livestock.

2: The trend these days is mostly natural filtration and a good skimmer. The natural filtration (live rock, at least 1lbs per gallon and possibly a DSB, read www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm) takes care of the ammonia, nitrite, and in the case of a DSB even nitrates. The skimmer privides a cushion in case something dies or you accidentally overfeed somehow. It also lets you keep a higher bio-load (more fish and corals) and cuts down on the amount of maintenance (like water changes) you need to do to keep the tank in working order.

3: Because you said you wanted an anemone, you will need relatively powerful lighting (metal halide). The types of corals i prefer (softies and LPS) don't need intense lighting like anemones, SPS corals, and most clams. Therefore i don't have any experience with MH lighting, only PC and VHO. Other people with MH lighting would be able to advise you better than i would.

4: Heaters haven't changed much in the past years. There are some new ones that are made out of titanium that are unbreakable, but that's about it.

Marine aquariums are being kept at higher temperatures these days, usually from 80-84*F. This could make a chiller unnecessary, especially if you have air conditioning.

5: The most common type of substrate these days is the Deep Sand Bed. The DSB is a 4-7" bed of sugar-sized sand grains that you just pour in. After a few months, the DSB becomes established, providing a home for tons of beneficial critters. Also, anaerobic bacteria grow in the lower, oxygenless layers of the sandbed. These bacteria consume nitrates, and convert them to harmless nitrogen gas.

6: Yep, RO/DI water is still considered the best.

7: Like others have said before, mail-order livestock can be a good thing depending on your situation. If you LFS is overpriced or has crappy livestock, then mail-order would probably be best for you.

On the other hand, mail-order equipment is almost always cheaper than equipment at an LFS, even with shipping. Check out the prices on some of the things at places like www.marinedepot.com and you'll see what i mean.

8: Kalkwasser is still a very popular way to add calcium. There are others though, such as liquid additives like B-Ionic or a calcium reactor. It all depends on your preferances.

9: www.reefcentral.com/library/starting_with_marines.htm is a good article for new people, if you haven't read it already.

10: Unfortunately, there have been no algae-scraping robots invented in the last 10 years.;) Algae magnets and razor blades are still the best things we have.

[Patrick G.]

Can someone point me to examples of each of these types of tanks mentioned in this quote from the "So you want to start a marine tank" page:

A pre drilled tank with an "overflow" weir is much better than a conventional tank with a siphon "overflow" to the sump. It allows for a much larger water flow, and is much safer to use, as there is no siphon that can "break" and cause the tank to overflow and/or the sump to run dry.

[Pomacanthus1]

Oh, forgot to mention reef-ready tanks. Reef-ready (RR) tanks are pre-drilled tanks. They have an overflow in the corner, and tubes that bring water to and back from the sump through the pre-drilled holes. RR overflows and plumbing are much more reliable than hang-on overflows.

If you plan on a sump, then i would highly recommend a RR tank. Oceanic and All-Glass Aquarium both make RR tanks.

[Patrick G.]

So RR is the way to go? Can you point me to a good choice (read also: good priced) 58 gal. RR?

[Pomacanthus1]

I've never had a problem with my AGA overflow. No floods, clogs, anything. None of the typical problems of a siphon overflow like floods, problems getting started after a power outage, clogs, etc. I would highly recommend a RR tank if you plan on having a sump.

Oceanic tanks are generally regarded as higher-quality than the AGA tanks, but many people including myself use AGA tanks and have nothing to complain about.

An Oceanic 58g would cost more than an AGA 58g, and the RR version of would cost a bit more for each one too. If i remember right, the overflow kit for my AGA 55g was about 70 bucks. I'm not sure how much a 58g would go for.

[Patrick G.]

Any recommendations on sites to purchase these tanks?

[jarhead]

Originally posted by Patrick G.
Any recommendations on sites to purchase these tanks? I don't think you can purchase a glass tank online. Check a few LFSs and compare the prices. May want to stop by the For Sale Forum to see if anyone locally is tearing down their tank or post a "wanted to buy" thread.

[cj7jeep81]

You will have to go to a local fish store for that. No one sells glass tanks on-line (too expensive to ship). Go to AGA's <a href="http://www.all-glass.com">web site</a> and find a dealer near you.

[NorthCoast]

First:
[welcome]
Second, I would consider the AGA 75, 90 or 120 if you have the space. The cost difference is really only incremental over the 55 and the 58 is non-standard size in many brands, thus more expensive. :D

Later,
NC

[H.I.D. KEVIN]

.....I agree, get a wider, and longer, tank if you can fit it. I used a space in my home that I thought the 70g was the largest tank I could fit, but now I'm seeing that a 6ft long tank could have fit behind the wall. Now, it will take some real doing to convert it. Get the larger tank now................H.I.D...KEVIN.....OVER.......

[crumbdav]

I just re-entered the hobby as well.. My last tank was a 37 gallon psudo reef. Here are the most important things I learned:

1. Get a RO Unit! I got a 50 GPD 3 stage RO Unit from ARS for about $155 shipped! This included a TDS Meter! (total dissolved solids). They have sales going on every now and then, and if you mention Reef Central, they pop on another 10% discount! Very good service as well.

2. Powerheads: Maxi Jet have the best reputation. Rio pumps get a bum rap, Im not sure why, but they do. If you are planning on setting up any type of wavemaker, get Maxi Jet!

3. I would stay away from the conventional tank sizes. They are pretty much designed as FO (fish only) tanks. Having tanks that are deeper makes aquascaping much easier. It obvioiusly gives more 'depth' to your viewing so on and so forth. (ie: stay away from a 55)

4. For your setup, I would get a Remora Pro with either a Maxi Jet powerhead or Mag 3 powerhead upgrade. I got mine at Marine Depot (with Mag3) for $227.

5. Lighting: as they stated before, lighting depends on your livestock. Here are some options: Hellolights have a good reputation and very good prices. I haven't used them, but they get good reviews. I got a 2x96 PC retrofit kit for about $145 shipped on Ebay. I think the best MH setup is at marine depot: 250 watt Iwaski retrofit kit for $227. Hello lights I think has cheaper though. (these prices are with electronic ballasts, I think you can get cheaper PFO ballasts, but run hotter and require more electricity).

6. Substrate: Most people would agree on using Southdown Sand if you can get ahold of it. Its usually at Home Depot stores. Not sure in your area though. Make sure you are not getting a silica based sand though.

7. Liverock: if you are looking for the best prices around, go with FFExpress. Other stores that have good reputations are: Tampa Bay Saltwater, Gulf View (they have more life.. good.. and bad) and Premium Aquatics.

8. Livestock: I'll leave this to the others, as Im still in the liverock curing stages. There are alot to choose from. If you can get ahold of reefers in your area, try to do some group ordering. It may make the hefty overnight charges more reasonable.

Also:

check out the libraries here. They are a great resource. They will get you re-familiar with all the lingo and acronyms etc. ;). Read read read!

Good luck and keep us informed!

[Glenntessmer]

I started with a 50 Gal breeder (36x18x18) tank.
One MH can light the tank.

[Boat]

PG,

I've recently gotten back into the hobby after a 10 year hiatus. I've got a 50 gal breeder also, and am using the Leng(or Ecosystem)filtration system. You might want to check that out. I would have gotten you a link but the server's slow tonight and I didn't want to leave it. Between the new lighting systems, filtration systems, and the Internet, this hobby is about 300% more enjoyable than it was in the early 90's (IMO).

Steve