filtration

[lowpro1]

i am new to salt water tanks. i was woundering is these filtration methods in a 30 gallon tank would be ok.

penguin 330 bio-wheel power filter
under gravel filter
and 2 power heads, 1 on top and 1 submergable.
1 protien skimmer

i wanted to keep a dwarf zebra lion, 2 long nose hawkfish, 1 pixy hawkfish and maybe a clown or 2. would that type of filtration work?

[Im Lon 2]

Take the Bio Wheel off the penguin. I would not go with the Under gravel filter.

Need to know if you plan on having a DSB (deep sand bed) and live rock.

[Siddroww]

My opinion :

Do not use the undergravel .

Take out the Bio wheels and run carbon . No filter media , they are a nitrate factory . Change the carbon weekly / bi-weekly depending on your bio-load .

Use a GOOD protien skimmer .

Live rock would be a real nice addition to your filtration and it looks good too .

[lowpro1]

i plan on putting 4 to 5 inches of live sand and cruched shells, along with some pive sand. i am also deffly doing live rock. so i shouldnt use a undergravel and i shoudl take the bio wheels out. and that would be enough filtration for the fish i ahve listed? beacsue the guy at my local pet store tried to conn me into spending 300 dollars that i dont have on a wet dry, so im trying to find an alternate rout that wont kill me fish

[Im Lon 2]

Forget about the crush coral/shells. You do not want any of that in a DSB. You are from NJ right go and buy some South Down Play Sand from your local Home Depot. make it 4" deep. Get atleaste a lb of rock for every gallon you have and a couple power head. and That will be fine for filtration. You might want to had a sump or a Refugium later and this will help as well.

IMO You might not even need to buy the penguin 330. I would see what other people post about that.

[Im Lon 2]

One more thing. Good Idea to ask before making any quick decisions. The wet/dry is always a ruff subject. Some say good. Most people say very Bad. I bought a used system and it came with a wet/dry that I will not even hook it up.

Here is a sight on South Down Sand. http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26193

Hope I’ve Helped

[RIVERROBSKI]

You may want to think twice about running carbon all the time. Is your tank going to be FO-(fish only) or Reef..In a 30 gal tank I would only go 2-3" sand bed max.Remember you have a small tank so you want some room.If you are having FO the bio wheel is ok. I am running a bio wheel in my FO-90 gal,CC 3" so it does work.My FO tank has been up kfor about 6 years.Absoultly no problems. All these things depend if you are going ree or FO.

[Pomacanthus1]

There are 3 main types of saltwater aquariums: plain fish only, fish only with live rock, and a full-blown reef. From your fish list it sounds like your planning on a fish only (FO) or fish only with live rock (FOWRL).

The FOWLR has a few advantages over a plain FO. A FOWLR is much like a reef, and because of that they usually have the same filtration: live rock, skimmer and sometimes a DSB. These methods of filtration are much better than the old, unnatural methods like wet/drys, canister and hang-on filters, and undergravel filters.

The old methods have a lot of problems with waste/detritus accumulating in them over time, which releases nutrients that can cause major algae problems. Live rock has all types of animals that hitchhike into your tank that will eat the detritus that otherwise would have decomposed and released nutrients. Also, a DSB has anaerobic bacteria that live in its oxygenless lower-levels. These anaerobic bacteria consume nitrate and convert it to harmless nitrogen gas bubbles.

I would strongly recommend ditching the UGF and Penguin. Instead, go the better route of live rock, a good skimmer (what kind are they trying to sell you?) and possibly even a DSB.

Check out some of these articles:
www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm for DSBs.
www.reefcentral.com/library/starting_with_marines.htm for lots of good advice for any saltwater newbie.

[RIVERROBSKI]

you have 2 opinions from 2 experianced

www.robreneasreef.com

[slipknottin]

Dr. Ron along with numerous other experts say shallow sand beds are not a good idea. Many people on this forum have found out why with personal experience.

You however, have a moderatly successful tank, and dont hesitate to stick the address of your site in every post you make.

Honestly. What benefit do you have with a shallow sand bed?

BTW- the reason for removing the biowheels is because they have a metal rod through them, and it will rust in SW.

[RIVERROBSKI]

I have changed the bio wheels every 2 years in my 90 gal FO.
I am not saying DSB is wrong.I am saying in a 30 gal there is no room.I have 4" CC in my FO.I have 2" in my.Have you seen my tanks. I am not saying opinions on RC are wrong.I am saying this is just another opinion that has worked and can be done. Thats why you need to know what is out there and pick one person you can trust and stick to them whether it is on RC or LFS or whoever.

www.robreneasreef.com.

[slimytadpole]

lowpro1, don't forget that the sand and live-rock are forms of filtration. I think you'll find that a 4" DSB will process more waste than you might imagine.

[lowpro1]

thanx alot guys, the information that you shared with me really helped me out alot. i only plan on having tops of 2 kinds of coral due to the fact that the long nose hawk enjoys to hide in them while searching for food. and i will never take advice from my LPS again concidering the fact that the guy told me i needed to spend 300$ to get a wet dry and that there was no other way to filter a tank good enough to keep life. so basically let me try to get this right,

no undergravel
maybe a penguin but take out the wheels
add 3-4 inches of a mix of live sand and south down sand
add 1 pound of live rock per gallon
and make sure i have good circulation w/ power heads

if i follow these instruction since the majority of you guys said that its better to go that way, i should be fine and shouldnt lose any fish?

[Q-ball]

Hiya...you've gotten a few opinions here, and I'll add mine. I'll start by saying there's no single correct way to do this hobby, at least yet. First, I think the number & selection of your fish is going to overstock a 30g tank. Maybe not by alot, but I think it's too much. FWIW, some will disagree and that's ok with me too. Lions, even dwarfs, produce a lot more waste than most other fish their size. They are messy eaters, they eat alot, and they poop alot:D That being said, lionfish (in my opinion) are also some of the coolest fish on the reef. We've just got to account for the waste. Hawkfish are also some cool fish, fairly easy to keep, and have great personalities. How about going with the Dwarf lion, one hawkfish, and a pair of clownfish? Or maybe the lion and 2 hawkfish? I think I read (and don't hold me to this, cuz I can't find it right now:D) that similar hawkfish tend to not get along with each other. I've not yet tested this, only having one hawkfish myself, but it's something to look into first.
As for the filtration, I guess it depends on whether it's a long tank or a tall tank. Assuming it's tall (say 18" or more) I'd go with a 4" deep sandbed, using mostly Southdown play sand from Home Depot and seeding that sandbed with a couple cups of livesand from various reefers that are likely to live near you. Add 20-30 pounds of liverock and you've got yourself a good FOWLR tank. With this method, you don't need that wet-dry (which are useful in SOME applications) But you may still want to look into a hang-on skimmer (I'll leave that suggestion to others that have hang-on skimmers, I don't) due to the waste produced by the lionfish. Add a few pc lights over the tank and you could probably even keep some corals such as shrooms, sinularia and other lower-light critters. Anyhow, got more longwinded than I intended, but I think this setup would work very well for what you're asking. JMO of course,

Q!!!