Help... tank is dying quickly!!!

[92reefer]

Help!

I have a 92 gallon reef and I think my tank is crashing. Brown algae and some hair algae have taken over my tank (growing and covering 2 inches of Southdown) and now my water is cloudy and the 2 fish (yellow tank and flame) appear to be gasping for air and not doing well at all. I can't understand what is happening.

I tested parameter and all within limits.. this sucks!!!!!

AMM, NIT and NITRATE were all 0

PH about 8.1

ALK about 9.5 and CA about 380

Salinity 1.025 and temp 79 degrees

What the heck is happening? I noticed that the small polyps on the live rock started dying about 2 weeks ago and they are now non-existent. Also I am using RO/DI water for topoff and it test very clean, 0 TDS.

Anybody have any suggestions, this tank looks like a graveyard

[92reefer]

Here is a pic of the tank:confused:

[sean buehrle]

if i were you id take some water to the fish store and get it tested quick,sounds like one of your tests are bad,check your salinity too.

[92reefer]

Sorry,

Pic was too big. Second try......

[DgenR8]

I can't tell anything from your pic, but it sounds like from what you describe, that surface aggitation might help. If you can get more gas exchange, your fish might breathe easier.
What time of day did you test PH, and is 8.1 a normal reading for that time of day?

[TJReef]

I agree that you're oxygen levels are probably way low. As stated surface agitation would help, but if I were you I'd get a protein skimmer on that thing. It might help remove anything that may be in the water (your nutrient levels are probably elevated if things are dying), but more importantly it a fantastic way to get gas exchange with the water and increase the oxygen level. I'd also probably get some activated carbon in there. Good luck!

[clamlvr]

to start I would do a lrge water change It looks like there is high nutrients in the water from the picture, I would also add some carbon, and a protin skimmer if you don't have one.

[92reefer]

Well guys, an ugly Christmas. I just lost my 2.5 yr old flame angel and my tang appears to be very close. It makes no sense. I took my water to the pet shop and they tested salinity and amm, nitrite, nitrate and ph. Nothing out of wack, this makes absolutely no sense and I am completely frustrated.

Off my local petshops advice, they told me to medicate with Boyd's Chemi-Clean (17.99), turn off the skimmer, wait for the red and cyano algae to die, then do a large water change by about Friday. Well I was desperate so I put in the chemi clean

Should I wait till Friday to do the water change or should I start tomorrow (Thursday). Any other suggestion other than surface agitation? I've exteremely degected at this point.....

:(

[Forgotten]

how old is ur tank? ur sandbed looks badly coverd with cyanobacteria and ur wall is also covered with bubble algae? maybe it was the water conditions

[MalHavoc]

Keep in mind that, with vigorous algae growth, things like nitrate and phosphate will test zero because they are probably being consumed quite quickly via growing algae.

How long has this tank been set up? What are your stocking levels like?

I agree with DGenR8 and everyone else about increasing surface agitation through powerhead use.

Boyd's Chemi-Clean may help with cyano, but it has the side effect of driving your skimmer nuts while it is in the water. That means that you'd probably have to turn it off while you use it, which may compound your possible oxygen problem.

[DRT]

If you have an power heads in the system check to make sure they are still working and not leaking. I had a powerhead melt down inside my tank and it killed just about everything until I noticed it wasnt working.

[92reefer]

No power heads in the tank, just a mag7 driving the berlin skimmer and a Mag1800 driving the main return which is split into 4 outlets. I should have pleny of current in my tank.

I'm confused as to where the nitrates and phosphates would come from. My RO/DI water is clean and as far as stocking, I currently have 0 corals in the tank, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 yellow tank (probably won't make it through today) and 4 astrea snails. This is all that's left. What's left to do? How can I restore this tank??? I hope I don't have to tear this thing down and start all over.

Mal, the tank has been up since February '02

[crumbdav]

what type of rock/live rock are you using?

What type of food are you using? Some rocks leach phosphate and some foods as well.

Best,

[92reefer]

I have about 90 pounds of live rock from Harbor Aquatics in Indiana. This was very good live rock that was mostly cured. The tank looked great and was doing great back in February when I converted from Fish only to Reef. Then I started having algae problems around July and it steadily grew and got worse. The parameters were all in reason during the whole course. I don't understand what was or is occurring in the tank. Right now it looks like the rock is dead. I have no living fish and only 2 snails left. The algae that is growing is light brown to green and some is very hairy. I am ready to do a 30 gallon water change hoping to get whatever is in the water out. I will turn on the skimmer and hope for some change...

Other suggestions....

[SeaMatt Nematocyt]

With that much algea growth, have you considered reducing your photoperiod?
How large is your sump by the way?
I used to have an issue with cyanobacteria but after upgrading to a larger tank and sump, it went away and has not returned.
I would keep the skimmer running. I'm not familier with your skimmer, but I noticed with mine that when I pushed more water through, it did a better job.
What leads you to suspect your rock is dead? Does it stink? I would think with dead rock, your amonia would be spiking very high.

Good luck.

[pmui]

you stated it was as Fish Only tank, did you use any copper products in the tank prior to changing it over to a reef? If you did it may have caused a die off in the rock that can cause a chair reation.

Peter

[dgasmd]

OK, so it is up to DEFCOM 5 time.:eek2: :eek2:
-Start with a 50% water change.
-Keep the skimmer running at full blast no matter what!
-Get a large turkey baster and blow off some of the algae on the sand and rock before the water change and syphon it out. Yes, it will come back, but it is a start.
-Add a couple of powerheads even if you already think you ahve good flow. This will cut down on stagnant areas and increase the chances of good oxygenation reaching all parts of the tank.
-Do another 50% water change in 24 hours and again in 48 hours. Even better if you do another 72 hours after the last one too. Make sure salinity doesn't fluctuate much with these much water changes.
-Cut down on light cycle to half the total of hours.
-DO NOT feed the fish for a couple of days. Even if stressed, they won't be eating much anyways.
-Over the next 3-4 days, drop the temp to 76-78 degrees.

If this doesn't help, I don't know what will.

Good luck,
Alberto

[kind]

My tank is close to yours. Mine has been running for 4 years now. i have made it look and perform better for the life of it by slowly cleaning the algea off. i would clean one side wall a day. If the tank is a rectangular tank (long) do the back in two parts. I would say the algea and cynobacteria are taking all the vital nutreiunts. Keep the cleaning up for six months to a year or till you find a better way to do it. My tank look graet on certain days. Every once in awhile i get it looking just like yours. One tip may be not to clean so much like everday or it may be better to clean the glass walls everday even if you do not see anything on them. Take your pick. Hey ill post a pick today- search for it by my screen name or look in the NEW TO HOBBY section. ill do so in about two hours it is 4:00 central time.

[92reefer]

Guys, Let me first Thank You for the replies and advice.

Update: I changed 32 gallons (all I had was trash can) of the 90 gallons in the tank and I siphoned off all the matted algae that was growing on the sand. The algae on the rock was another matter. I could not get that stuff off. I would probably have to take a tooth brush or something similar and scrub all the rocks. Anyway I didn't have time. I lost my last fish; a small yellow tang and I spent about an hour moving and picking up rocks. I never found it, just disappeared.

I had to get the system up and running so I just changed the water and flipped the switch.

Answers to some of the questions above:

A: There was never any copper or similar chemicals added to tank with the exception of Boyds chemi-clean added recently to kill the cyano algae.

My sump is a CPR 1000, probably similar to 20 gallon tank??

* Will cut the photoperiod in half (175 w MH 10k from 6 hrs to 3 hrs ans 2-55W 03's from 10hrs to 5hrs)

Q: "Does anybody think that the atinic bulbs now 10 months old have fallen off and contributed to the bad algae?

[DgenR8]

As bulbs age, they do tend to shift spectrum. This could be a big contributor to your algae problem, but without the nutrients for it to consume, even the perfect light for algae can't make it grow.
The bulbs could need replacing, but that's not going to solve the problem, if anything it would be treating a symptom, not the cause.

[92reefer]

If my acitinic bulbs have indeed dropped off, does anybody think that going with a 20K MH without the 2-55watt actinics would be a better way to go?? Just trying to figure out a fix.

[DgenR8]

If this were MY tank, I would first suspect that the test kits giving those zero readings are faulty. You have an algae problem, algae NEEDS nutrients to grow, therefore you MUST have them in the water. Ammo, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Phosphate tests are in order, and not the cheapo Doc. Wellfish kits either. You want something that you can trust to give you accurate readings. I don't think there's anything available to the hobbyist, other than Lamotte's and Salifert that you can trust, and if you think Salifert is too high priced, wait till you look at Lamotte's prices!
Back to basics, my friend, check your parameters and get back to us with the results.

[92reefer]

OK Larry. Thanks

I have been using the Sea-test foil reagent test kits. I didn't trust my AMM, Nitrite, Nitrate (all 0) and PH (about 8 to 8.1) readings so I had my local fish store do them and they came up with the same results!!! :confused:

Salinity was the only difference. I am using a refractometer and it read about 1.025 and they used the cheapo plastic kind which read about 1.0235. Either way I think I'm in the OK range for salinity.

Larry, aren't the Sea-test kits half way decent. I've been using them for about 12 years now and never noticed any problems??

[92reefer]

Larry;

One more question regarding circulation. I have a MAG 18 (1800 at 0 ft head) feeding the 92 gallon tank which is split four ways at the output using Lin-Loc.

Do you think that it would be beneficial to upgrade to the MAG 2400 to increase water movement? Just another suggestion...

[DgenR8]

The only SeaTest kits I have experience with are the Calcium, and ALK tests.
They constantly gave me low readings and I was dumping chemicles into my tank, trying to correct what turned out to be a non existant problem.
I overdosed Calcium to the point of having a snowstorm in my tank. The precipitation caused both levels to fall off drastically. Since then, I follow the recommendations of the vast majority on this board and use only Salifert test kits. I believe the results they give me are accurate, and my tank concurs.
The answer to your circulation question, just like lighting, depends on what you keep, or want to keep. Some corals NEED strong current to be healthy, others will die in strong current.

[92reefer]

Larry;

Just redid my tests, results: I noticed that my CA and ALK dropped after the large water change. 2nd time this happened. Is this a normal occurrence? I am using Tropic Marin salt. I dosed my ESV at 80ml part 1 & 2 to bring levels back to where they should be:

AMM - 0
NITRTIE -0
NITRATE - 0

PH 8.0

Ca - 330
DKH - 7.7

Salinity 1.024

Temp 78

------------------------------------

Reduced photo period to:

175 WMH 3 hours
2- 55w Actinics 5.5 hours

-----------------------------------

There is nothing living in my tank at the moment besides 3 snails that made it through and the live (I hope) rock. Should I get a fish in the tank to keep the ammonia/cycle going and any suggestions on what....

Thanks for all the help!

[clamlvr]

There is nothing living in my tank at the moment besides 3 snails that made it through and the live (I hope) rock. Should I get a fish in the tank to keep the ammonia/cycle going and any suggestions on what....

I would not put any fish in that tank. IMO you should let it sit with only snails and crabs for about a month just to keep the cycle going any parasite that is or was in your tank should be dead by then. then you should start out slow.

I do have a question for you, before any thing died was there any chamicals near your tank that couls have been introduced through the air. Hair spray, windex, paint fumes, etc.

[DgenR8]

I have never used Tropic Marin, but I do know it's not a cheap salt, and you should be able to expect NSW (Natural Sea Water) or close levels of trace elements, like Calcium. A water change shouldn't drop those levels, definitely not drastically. You are dosing B-Ionic at a very high dose. I use 45 ML./day in my system, and I've got better that 300 gals. In a 90 gal. tank, dosing heavy would be anything over 20 ML./day. I say you have to slow down, you can't correct a problem quickly in a Reef system, without causing more problems. Remember, what you want is stability, quick changes, even to bring things to where they should be will do nothing good. This means much less considering that you have no livestock anymore, but it's a good practice to follow anyway.
Temp. is kinda low, I recommend bringing it up. 84* is about as high as it should ever be allowed to get, and no lower than 81*.
I'm going to agree with clamlvr, keep the tank fishless for a month or so. Any parisites that might have been causing you grief will die off in that time without a host, and the higher temp will help facilitate that "cleansing" Use the time without fish to get stable, and research the algae your battling. Since you have nothing but snails in the tank, you could cut the photoperiod to nothing, which should help you get ahead of the algae.
To feed your bio filtration, you don't need fish, a few food flakes every couple of days will suffice, but to avoid adding phosphate to the tank, I would drop a VERY SMALL piece of shrimp or something like it in there every couple days instead.
Clamlvr also brings up a very good point. Airbourne pollutants can wreak havoc in a Reef system. I have read more than once, about someone cleaning the outside of their tank with windex, and the skimmer venturi sucking the fumes in and adding them to water. Same goes for exterminating chemicles, paint fumes etc.

[92reefer]

Update;

Skimmer's excessive foaming has subsided and the tank's smell has gone away (water did smell pretty bad). The water looks very clear. Now about the lighting.

There is still a decent amount of corraline (purple) alage under the rocks in the tank. Don't I need to apply some amount of light to at least keep that alive. I don't want all the corraline to die off because I fear that it won't come back.

So I should cut the lights totally? For how long.

I'm also using Salifert tests for CA and ALK and they both read low. The instructions on the ESV say to boost the additions until you reach acceptable levels and then scale back. Larry if I only add about 20 per day I don't think my CA will ever get near 400, likewise bring my 7.7dkh up to about 9-10?

[DgenR8]

Lighting, some coralline responds well to low light, but I can see your concerns about no light.
I guess with what you have available to you, a short (4 or 5 hrs.) photoperiod running only the PC's might be alright to keep the coralline alive, I'm not sure. I am pretty sure that when you change your photoperiod drastically, some coralline will die off, and you should be able to expect other colors of coralline taking it's place. When you change back to running halides again, the lower light coralline will bleach, and again, you should see different shades taking over.
I have no experience with PC's, and not much with growing coralline. I could be pretty far off base with that whole last paragraph. Hopefully someone will chime in to either correct me, or agree with me. :)
It's good that the smell is gone. (as if you didn't already know that :rolleyes: )
I think that adding B-Ionic to raise your calcium is probably the most expensive way to do it. Kent makes a product called Turbo Calcium. I have heard good things about it, and although I haven't used it myself, I've often seen it recommended.

[92reefer]

Hey Larry;

Funny thing. I have Kent Turbo Calium on hand, but never used it. Maybe I can try it out now.

Also, I need to bring up the ALK too. It was 7.7 after the water change. Should I just do regular dose on ESV and hope it raises or should I buy another additive like the Kent to bring it up....

Also, I have about 1 to 1.5 inches of Southdown in tank. Should I add some more Southdown to the top so I can get a DSB? I know that there were critters in the sand before all this happened: i saw tracks all over the place from underneath the auqarium..

Thanks for all your advice:cool:

[92reefer]

Here is an updated pic of the algae in tank. Hairy green stuff. Should i use some type of tool to manually pick this stuff off the rock or should I cut the lighting and hope that it dies off???:confused:

[92reefer]

Sorry,

forgot to add the pic??