Is it a no-no to nail or screw into the end of plywood?

[Little Reefer Boy]

I have no idea so I'm asking. Are you not supposed to nail or screw into the end of plywood, along the length and thus between the layers? Thanks.

[jeremism30]

NO, don't do that. The wood will spilt.

[Little Reefer Boy]

Thanks,

That's what I figured, but I wanted to make sure.

[Fredfish]

NO, don't do that. The wood will spilt

Not true. If you drill a pilot hole first, it will be fine. I did this when I built my hood and screws are used to help hold together wood tanks were the end is butted up against a side or the bottom and then screwed.

Fred.

[lllosingit]

I'm not sure what your doing but you can always use a block on the inside of the corner and glue,then screw the 2 pieces of plywood to the block.

[Little Reefer Boy]

I'm making a hood for another tank. For hoods that I've made before, I used regular wood. This time though, I was going to try out some plywood. So as long as I drill a pilot hole first, I should be able to screw into the end? Butting the end up against the side of another piece is what I'm doing.

[marm64]

It will not be as strong when you screw into the end grain but it should hold enough for a hood. You will have to pre drill all the holes as posted previously so as to not split the wood. What I have done is to clamp a piece of wood on both sides so that it will not split and do not for get to also glue it.

[brokekyle]

that'll be a very week joint.. better to use a 1X1 on all corners

[Neapolitan]

Hiya Woodsplitter!
Not sure what access you have to tools, but I have built over 200 or so aquarium cabinets and canopies, in-wall units, etc. I do not recommend the use of screws or nails in either solid woods, or plys. If you plan on building a few things, it may be best to purchase a cheap nailgun to send 1 1/4 brad nails into wood at around 100psi (to sink the heads). You can purchase for about $75 at a home improvement store, along with a $45 plug-in air compressor, or find a buddy that has the tools. You could also get into "biscuits" in which a cheap biscuit joiner would cost around $100. Be sure to keep all edge cuts square, and use a decent wood glue. When building large cabinets (6' and above) you may need to either reinforce the structure, or use a few pre-drilled holes with wood screws on pressure/weight disbursement points, i.e. corners. Happy building!

[boogs]

Not true. If you drill a pilot hole first, it will be fine. I did this when I built my hood and screws are used to help hold together wood tanks were the end is butted up against a side or the bottom and then screwed.

Indeed - i agree with Fred. I've made many stands, canopies etc - as long as you pre drill and glue the joint it will be fine. You can add additional bracing on the inside corners and screw/nail to that as well if high strength is req'd.

Scott

[Neapolitan]

Boogs,
The statement was not meant to say "it won't work," however, over time you would find that after building several hundred of the same stand...even if you drill a pilot hole for the screw threads, and even for the head of the screw, you can risk splitting..considering most of the joint work is on the end 1" of the boards. I do not know of too many hardwood artisans that use pilots holes and screws in cabinet frame construction (other than the retail melamine cabinets you buy pre-cut). For larger tanks, I do recommend some sort of reinforcement on the insides of the cabinet, i.e. 2x4s, 4x4s, or even iron/steel for the really bigs ones in commercial buildings. Joinery has come a long way over the past few hundred years, and if you are looking for a clean professionally built cabinet, with an impecable finish (sawdust and glue...sanded down & finished to hide joints, etc.) you would probably forgo the screw/nail & hammer method. You could also take a peek at good 'ol Norm Abrams cabinet construction techniques from This Old House, or New Yankee Workshop on the TV. But when a new hobbyist is starting out, one of the easiest things to do would be to stop by the nearest aquarium retail store and take a peak at the different ways the name brand manufacturers build their cabinetry (they build 100,000+ per year), especially Oceanic Systems Oak Cabinets (they are basic in design, but well built). Either way each reefer has to look at their own handiwork, whether it is built with screws, nails, brads, glue, or duct tape. :O)

[Russ]

Why not just use some metal "L"-brackets on the insides?

[Neapolitan]

I like the quickness of using general construction framing squares for added support...however, over time the screw heads and metal edges will begin to rust unless you have superb ventilation, or seal the screw heads and brace with either liquid silicone, EPDM, or a like substance. You could replace the squares, but the thread channel becomes worn over time. Happy Building...

Off to build another bowfront stand !!! (another client, woohoo!)

[boogs]

The statement was not meant to say "it won't work," however, over time you would find that after building several hundred of the same stand...even if you drill a pilot hole for the screw threads, and even for the head of the screw, you can risk splitting..considering most of the joint work is on the end 1" of the boards. I do not know of too many hardwood artisans that use pilots holes and screws in cabinet frame construction (other than the retail melamine cabinets you buy pre-cut)

I agree but in this case we are talking about someone who is building 1 canopy for an aquarium. Obviously hardwood is a different story - as someone who has built many furniture pieces with various hardwoods i can attest to better joinery methods and have used them.

Joinery has come a long way over the past few hundred years, and if you are looking for a clean professionally built cabinet, with an impecable finish (sawdust and glue...sanded down & finished to hide joints, etc.) you would probably forgo the screw/nail & hammer method.

True though good joinery techniques haven't changed in over 100 years. I think we need to remember that not everyone who builds with wood has the skill or tools required to make "professionally built cabinets".

Scott

[Neapolitan]

My goal in posting was to try to open the discussion for a more "how do I do that" scenario in helping some of our new hobbyists learn ways to make their home aquariums stand out. Having spouses, relatives and friends ask them "wow!, did you build that piece of exquisite aquarium furniture? ... want to build one for me?" would be a great way to get more people into our little part of the world, and hopefully increase environmental awareness. I remember about 15 years ago when I started building cabinets, I did the faux wood thing with 2x4's and screws to the best I could, but with a little help, and time spent I learned more about finish carpentry and cabinetry from a mentor. That's all I was trying to do, pass it on... Anyone like a particular router? About to replace a 5 year old PC. :O)



buzzzzzzzzzzz

[Little Reefer Boy]

I've built a few hoods and stands for tanks up to 75g. This particular thread, though, actually concerns building a 10g hood. :lmao: I simply wanted to know if you should or shouldn't screw into the end of plywood.

It seems I definitely can this time, because obviously a 10g hood doesn't weigh that much. Thank you all for the advice though. It has definitely not been wasted effort, since we always want a bigger tank and DIY saves alot of money.

Keep sending in the tips!

[Neapolitan]

10 Gallon! That's huge compared to the mason jar micro micro reef cabinet and canopy I have been trying to build! I have been trying to figure out how to bend and shape an 8"x4" piece of 1/4 Oak for a cabinet and canopy! The submersing tank and blow torch are not working, and I am down to three fingers. hehe

p.s. anyone know how to build a controller and chiller for the mason jar? calcium reactor? what is the smallest metal halide I could use? It will only hold about 2 pints of water, and a few polyps, but should be a great showpiece! hehe

[marm64]

Actually for a good joint in plywood you could use pocket holes with screws and then fill in the pocket holes in the inside and you would not have to worry about the screws rusting.

The only nice thing about plywood is it is less likely to warp and you can usually get plywood cheaper that solid hard wood.

[Tom Hulse]

Keep sending in the tips!
Whether you screw or pin the joints try using polyurethane glue. It makes practically indestructable joints in plywood, it will tear apart before the joint will fail if you do a decent job. Use disposable gloves because it won't wash off your hands for a couple of days. Very messy, very strong.
- Tom