Who can test my water??? What's wrong???

[Erik765]

I am wondering if there is a place I can send my water to be tested with high quality and perhaps many different tests. My LFS just does the basic stuff that I already know about and my corals are not as healthy as they should be and I don't know what the deal is. For instance, my green leather is shrinking, my Candycane is losing it's coloration, etc. etc. From what I see from my tests and perimeters everything should be thriving. Don't you think?
Is it perhaps my tap water? We are on a class A well (which we own) used for public water, no chlorine, because it doesn't need it. What am I doing wrong? Why do I spend so much money for my tank to look sucky?

Specs

20 gal. main
10 gal. sump
15 gal. Refugiuim w/ several macroalgae
110w actinic03 PC
40w 50/50 VHO
175 10k ushio MH
30 lbs LR
2" med grade sand in main
4" oolitic with Garf grunge in ref.
4" of fish
several LPS, Soft, recordia, anemonae
nitrates are at around 2
pH 8.3
Sal. 023
Calcium 450+
UV sterilizer on sump
Skimmer run one-two days / week.

Give me your input please!
:confused:

[SushiGirl]

You could try your city water supply provider or maybe any nearby universities?

[Nek]

Check out your local well company. I had mine tested, and the woman came which a HUGE Lamotte test kit the size of a suitcase. Just make sure they can do salt water...Im not sure.

[kevinpo]

You don't list your alkalinity. Do you have coraline algae growing? Low magnesium levels can prevent calcium uptake. Phosphate, silicates, and nitrates are often found in well water. They can all fuel algae growth and prevent coral growth. IMO you should run the skimmer 24/7 if you have leathers in such a small system. If you are growing macro algae and have a refugium your nitrates should be undetectable. Do you feed your LPS meaty foods (raw shrimp, Formula1 etc.) once a week or so? How old is your MH bulb?

Just some things to check,
Kevin

[Erik765]

Part of the probelm is I don't trust my test kits, considering one day I tested and my pH was (supposedly) so low it was undetectible, so I mixed up some new water and the same results. and my calcium showed about 650 one day (which isn't really possible- is it?). I have been using GARF's bullet proof reef system of seachem products for the last couple months. Haven't noticed a drastic improvement in the corals yet. My MH sys. is brand new. I haven't gotten it up to a full days light yet.


Anyone have any extra test kits they want to donate?!!!

Call me ignorant but how do you feed LPS chunks of meat? wouldn't they just fall off? How do you feed them otherwise?
I feed my anemonea chunks and they have tentacles to grab it with.

[GARFVolunteer]

Erik765,

A 20 gallon reef should have a about 320 GPH of current IMO. This current should come from many sources. You have a return from you sump which is one source you should have at least 1 power head providing current in the opposite direction. I set up my sister's 20 gallon with 3 MaxiJet 400 power heads (no sump)and the corals are doing fine under a single 175W 10K Ushio MH.

I have switched to Salifert for all my test kits. I have tried many different brands and found the Salifert to be the most repeatable. For pH testing, I will be buying a PinPoint monitor once I can convince my wife the expense is needed.

how do you feed LPS chunks of meat

You don't... LPS are photosenthetic and do not need to be feed directly like an anemone does. They get their nutrients from the light and water.

Skimmer run one-two days / week

When you turn off the skimmer, just remove the air source and let the water keep running. If the water in the skimmer sits for very long, Hydrogen sulfide gas (rotten egg smell) can develope and you can wipe out your tank. One of my skimmers got unplugged once. I thought I had just done it since I was working in that area. I plugged it back in and stunk up the whole house. I was very lucky that I only had some irritated soft corals for a week but everything made it fine.

I personally would run the skimmer 24/7.

Scott

[Squidman]

You don't... LPS are photosenthetic and do not need to be feed directly like an anemone does. They get their nutrients from the light and water.

I disagree with this. I feed all of my LPS (mostly euphyllia's) and they definitely grow better and expand better when being fed regularly. That's just how it's worked out in my tank. They obviously need good lighting too, but you have that covered.

Your candy cane coral should extend many feeder tentacles at night which are easy to see. I usually use a turkey baster to feed small pieces of shrimp to each head. My hammers, frogspawn and torches all eat shrimp too. I believe they need to be fed for a couple of reasons. They all have mouths and feeder tentacles. You wouldn't believe the size of the chuncks of meat they can eat, especially my fungia. I just don't know why they would have that physiology and capability if they weren't supposed to eat. Also, like i said, when I don't feed them regularly, they just don't look as good. Of course, feeding certainly doesn't relieve the requirement that they appreciate high water quality as well. Use good quality test kits (I like salifert) and you'll dial things in in no time. Try the feeding. You can always quit but I think you'll find it helps.

[Erik765]

It has tenacles for sure at night. So, I just chop up shrimp, mix it with some water and squirt it on the heads? Does that go for all my LPS pieces? Where would you suggest finding the best price on salifert kits?

The reason I turn my skimmer off is because of my supplements I add. I don't want to filter them out as soon as I put them in, especially since I dose in my sump which is were my skimmer is also. What do you all do when you dose and skim? I have read many opinions on weather or not a skimmer is even necesarry with a refugium set up. Any ideas on that? I had my skimmer off for about 2 months and there didn't seem to be any problems.

[reef1969]

Erik, is you tank a new setup? I know this may sound strange, but I have found the more I fiddle with my tank, the worse it does, and the more "problems" I find. I have learned keep an eye out, but don't micro manage the tank, yes I have been guilty of that. When I first got my tank set up, I always found some problem, that required a trip to the LFS for a purchase to correct. The tank has been running for 4 years now, and for a full year I did no water chages, and the skimmer was so dirty it would not skim. Decided to clean up the tank, it took me 6 hours to scrape the corraline off of the front, and side glass. It was so bad I could not see into the tank. When I could see inside, I found my mushrooms had spread like mad, they didn't before, same with polyps. My BTA did not look as happy, but he has been in the same spot for 2 years now. I have 3 false percs, that I only feed once every 10 days or so, and they are fat, and spawning. I guess what I am trying to say is, relax, be patient, and monitor the health. Now I change water, hardly skim at all, sold my reef devil, and got an el cheapo, and I don't do additives. Seems to me that a natural reef is constantly getting a source of nutrient rich water, with food. If I had the time I would like to try a tank with heavy feeding, daily water changes, and no skimmer, and a lot of light. Hang in there.

[Erik765]

My tank is 3 years old, thats how long I've been hanging in there.
I just got home from work and another one of my corals is dying.
It's always been like this so you can imagine my frustration. That's why I'm thinking it could be my source water since no one can figure out what the problem is. I have tried leaving it alone as you suggest, 1969. It doesn't seem to improve anything. I'm going to try to afford a salifert pro test kit and test everything and get it all dialed in as a previous person suggested.
Anybody have any money I can borrow?!;)

[BruceP]

Too much light? Don't know, but 325 watts over 20g seems like a lot. You could probably do without the MH for the type corals you have.

[kevinpo]

Anemones and LPS have similar requirements in regards to feeding and light. I have 13 species of LPS corals most for over 5 years (several which have spawned) and IME they grow and look much better when given regular feedings of meaty foods. I usually feed about 1 hour after the lights go out. If you have a shrimp you will need to give it a piece of food to keep it busy for a while as they like to steal the food from the coral :) . Cut the shrimp into pieces about the size of the eraser on a pencil. use your fingers or tweezers to place the food on the extended tentacles. The food will stick to the tentacles and the coral will do the rest.

Here are a couple of pictures of my T. geoffroyi first during the day and the second with it's feeding tentacles extended.

Regards,
Kevin
PS: I also use Salifert test kits.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=58591
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=58812

[BruceP]

kevinpo is absolutely right on about the feeding. IMO Feeding is more important than blasting them with alot of light.

[lllosingit]

You say your on well water and it has no chlorine, I live in the midwest and althought the water is clean enough to drink I wouldn't use it for a reef because of the other nitrates/ minerals and such that are common in well water around here. If you think it might be something in the water you might try using RO/DI water that way if you do not see an improvement you can rule that out at least.

[Erik765]

I think I will deffinitely try feeding. I am going to keep my huge lighting system though. The reason I got it was to be able to keep clams and sps in the future. I don't think 325w is too much. I know a guy who is using a 250w on a 15g tank which is about the same amount / gal that I have! It's days like today where I don't know if I really feel like killing any more corals though.

[organicreefer]

erik765-imo the reason youre corals are not doing well is because you have had a reef for three years (or a tank anyway)and seem to know comparitively little about proper husbandry techniques.

im not trying to flame you but instead to give you the best advice of all-get a couple good books (id suggest good old trusty tra 1 and 2 as a good place to start.)and read them .

this is a good place to get help- dont get me wrong-but the foundation you can gain from reading a couple (or a bunch) good books will take a much much longer time to pick up here or from exp...

by the way the salifert test kits are the way to go -imo......

and never trust anyone who calls their system "bullet proof":rolleyes:

[Erik765]

I appreciate your insight. I will buy those books. Do you mean The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium vol. 1-2, By Svein A. Fossa, Alf Jacob Nilsen? If so, is the third volume recomended also? Just making sure. I looked at some books and there are a few different things that could go under TRA!! Thanks again.

Erik:D

[kevinpo]

Erik,
I believe he's referring to "The Reef Aquarium" by Delbeek & Sprung. Another less expensive but excellent book is Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals"

Regards,
Kevin

[GARFVolunteer]

Erik765,

Two of the best reef books I have read are John Tullock's "Natural Reef Aquariums" and Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals". The library system here in Boise, has both of those books so you might be able to find them at your local library.

Scott

[Erik765]

Well being the impulsive person I am, I purchased The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium vol. 1, By Svein A. Fossa cause I found it for a good deal. Will it have good enough info in it or should I still also invest in The Reef Aquarium" by Delbeek & Sprung?
Please let me know.

I have been planning on purchasing Eric's book for quite some time. I think I'll wait to see if I get it for Christmas first however!!
Erik;)

[Squidman]

If you have a shrimp you will need to give it a piece of food to keep it busy for a while as they like to steal the food from the coral . Cut the shrimp into pieces about the size of the eraser on a pencil

This sounds pretty funny (and dangerous to the shrimp) if taken out of context. Sorry Kevinpo but I had an evil chuckle when I read this. I recently sold my shrimps back to the LFS because I got sick of them stealing food from my corals and I was tired of trying to keep their mouths full every time I fed. I resisted the urge to throw them in my FOWLR to make friends with my eel :eek1: and sold them instead.

[kevinpo]

Squidman,
:D :lol: :smokin: LMAO!
That'll teach him not to steal :)

Kevin

[organicreefer]

erik765-fossa and nilsen is a excellent series-perhaps just a bit more in depth than sprung and delbeek even.i have both and i usually reccomend tra because its an easier read imo.

aquarium corals is also excellent-but you really do/did need to get the book you got first-borneman concentrates on the care of corals-but doesnt have a whole lot on different methods of reefkeeping or water chemistry and the hows/whys natural systems work.