Brown Algae

[aquanaut]

My salt water fish tank has been running for three weeks already, and i am starting to see this Brown Algae around the glass, my question is, is this a good thing our is it a bad thing?

[glaspak845]

Its perfectly normal to see algea blooms during your cycle and even afterwards. You can rid your tank of the algea over time by doing your water changes with RO water. I take it your tank is still cycling so give it time after you're done cycling you can add a clean up crew to eat the algea. In the meantime you can scrape it off if you wish. If all you have in the tank is live rock, you can cut your photo period back, but only if there is no fish life in there and just live rock. Give it time, you'll be fine :)

Take it easy,

[aquanaut]

My tank has so far 28 days since it started to cicle, i have two fish in it,( damsels ) domino, & a yellow tail.
i dont have any live rocks in it just fish stock with some dead coral in it.

I have that brown alge growing out of control. i have cleaned the glass, but the media which is crushed coral is is all filled with that stuff. should i just let it stay there or is it safe to clean them without interrupting the cicle ?.

S.G 1.022
Amonia 0
Nitrite 1.65

How high does the nitrite go?

[Eric Boerner]

Clean away. YOu'll have it for the next several months probably.

What kind of water are you using for make up water? How good is your circulation?

Anything but RO water will cause these algae blooms.

[aquanaut]

What do you mean by RO water ?:confused:

[jhead67]

What kind water are you using if you are not using Reverse osmosis (RO)/De-ionized(DI) water?

IMHO, just clean the glass. By doing water changes you are adding more energy for the diatoms to live off of. If you just ride it out for a few days or a week it will get better faster. Also I would not change the lighting schedule unless you are running it at 14 hours day, which is to much, or something like that. Because as soon as your kick the lights backup you are putting more energy back into the tank and the diatoms will start over again. I have new 250 MH that I'm going to put on my 30. I fully expect to see some increase in diatoms after adding the new light.

Here is my 30 a few months ago about a week into the bloom.

http://www.nerdsnags.com/images/reef/diatom.jpg

And the same tank three days later. Yes only three days.

http://www.nerdsnags.com/images/reef/diatom2.jpg

A good clean up crew will get rid the skeletons, the brown stuff you are seeing, and help things a lot.

My new 75 just started it's bloom 3 days ago. I'll take pictures and post the progress if you'd like. Just so you know your not alone in this.

The next issue your going to have is a blue-green algea bloom. It will make your tank a "lovely":rolleyes: lime green all over.

Good luck, and don't panic.

[moze229]

jhead67 - I'd like to see the progress of the other tank as well :) I'm going through this right now and we keep hearing different things. Some poeple say shut the lights off for a few days, some people say to suck the stuff out with a turkey baster. I'm going to go ahead and leave my lights on the current cycle and try that. I've tried both methods, leaving lights off and syphing the brown algae off of the substrate, but with turning the lights on for a couple of more hours, everything is just about back to the way it was before I started. This stuff grows fast! Also, I've heard that it tends to grown around low flow areas. Mine seems to grown best in high flow areas - example is the return from the sump. I'm gowing to wait it out or a few days as you suggest and see what happens. Thanks for the info.

[SCRUZ]

holy smokes jhead67. what changes did you make during those 3 days? or did you just wait it out....

I am dealing with the diatoms and I HATE them. not only did my tank just get moved, but I also used 60% well water when I refilled it (DUH) and I also just doubled my lighting. Talk about provoking the diatom bloom..... Have any idea what else I could do to get more brown crap algae everywhere (j/k)?

[jhead67]

LOL,


Been there and lived through that. I did nothing but clean the glass so I could watch what was going on inside. I know that's hard to believe, but its true. I had a nothing more than a good clean up crew and patience. That's why I started taking pictures. I wanted to see how long it would take to make a difference. I was shocked myself at the results.

As promised I took pictures of the new 75 today, and we'll all follow the progress.

http://www.nerdsnags.com/images/reef/75 diatom1.jpg

But it already looks better than it did this afternoon. Here's a more upclose shot of where the snails have been today, can you tell the difference.

http://www.nerdsnags.com/images/reef/75 diatom2.jpg

I placed few pieces of LR from my 30 into the tank to help seed the stuff that in there all ready and the green algea has taken the top of LR over in just a few days, one of the green pieces is middle right top picture. Like I say I've lived through this three times already and don't panic any more. Just try and enjoy it for what it worth. It happens to everyone I think.

[Dr. Beer]

My brown algae bloom is about finished now I think. The 6 snails and 5 crabs seem to be able to keep up with it. It only lasted about 8 days, and probably only that long because I tend to overfeed (it's a nano too, so even one flake of OSI spirulina is overfeed hehe). Now I'm starting to get the nice key lime stuff. My advice is just to leave the tank alone. Get a good clean up crew, but don't overdo it. Give it a month and you shouldn't have a big problem. :)

[moze229]

That is a really cool piece of LR in the center, the one that makes the roof on the litte cove! How did you run into that??? :) I need a piece like that one. :)

[jhead67]

I bought this tank from a guy that spent about $2500 on it and gave up. He told me that he saw this piece at the LFS and coldn't live with out it. I got this whole setup for about .20 on the dollar :)

[moze229]

Well, it looks like you were right so far with the algae bloom. Left the lights on all day today and the tank went from being pretty clear to being completely covered in brown algae. After the lights went off for a couple of hours, the snails had a large amount of the algae consumed it looks like. I hope they can keep up. Thanks again for the tip. If you ever run into another piece of rock like that let me know. I'd pay top dollars a pound for it :D

[moze229]

Well jhead67, it looks like the snails are having a hard time keeping up :( The rock no longer look like LR, but more like something that was sitting in a storm sewer for a few years. The small parts of the rock that are cleaned by the snails, look different than before. I suppose the algae bloom encourages growth of other things on the rock as well. There are so many bubbles on the substrate, occasionally a piece will start floating being lifted by the bubbles. Perhaps it will start looking better by the weekend.

[jhead67]

That was the top picture for sure. The brown stuff was so thick that the bubbles were holding little filaments of stuff off the sand. And it was so thick on the penguin filter that it look like hair blowing in the wind. Snails are the key, the ones I had are from GARF did the best job, not sure of the name of them, CERITH snails I think. They are a long spotted black/brown color, and they tore this stuff up. You can see a few of them in the top picture, one in the center, and two on the dead encrusting coral between the two shells. Just look at the tracks they are making in the stuff. Here's a link to a better picture and, and they are only a buck each at the website.

Cerith snail (http://www.premiumaquatics.com/thestore/prods/L-BAHA-SNAIL.html)

Personally I think they work great, but if you have hermits they will try and kill these guys to take there shells. GARF sells them with hermits, not sure why but they do. Probably just a way to get you to reorder when they all die off or get killed by the hermits. The little blue legged SOB's are murder on the other shelled inverts in a tank. IMHO. See if you can find a local store that has them, none of the LFS I have been to around here carries them.

[jhead67]

Just so you know I'm not pulling the other leg too. Here's the 75, I this took today at lunch. It looks like a few more days at most and I'll be OK on this one. My skimmer is about half full, so I assuming that it's pulling a lot this junk out too.

http://www.nerdsnags.com/images/reef/75 diatom3.jpg

And an updated picture of the 30.

http://www.nerdsnags.com/images/reef/30 small.jpg

Larger picture of the 30 (http://www.nerdsnags.com/images/reef/30 full.jpg)

[moze229]

I went ahead and picked up just a few snails tonight to try and help. 5 Astrea and 5 Margarita snails. Looks like they're doing a great job on the glass so far. Hopefully they will be able to hit the substrate and rock. Not sure if these guys will do the substrate or not. IME, some of the snails don't like to get onto the sand. Also, both of these types of snails cannot right themselves either so here goes another babysitting job. I'll see what these guys do. I have strombus grazers at the moment as well but just not enough of them. They are excellent at cleaning everything, but I can't get any more of these until after the holidays. We'll have to wait and see.

[Dr. Beer]

jhead you do some really fantastic looking aquascaping.

[jhead67]

Tanks man!!!! Oh, that's Thanks man. :)

[moze229]

I agree. I can't get my rocks to look good any way I stack them. It looks like you have puzzle pieces that fit together pretty well. BTW - I know it's only been one day but the astreas and margaritas don't seem to be doing much as of yet. They don't want to touch the substrate at all. I don't think they like non hard/smooth surfaces. I'll just have to wait until after next week and get some of the cerinths. I'm going to try and post a couple of pics here if it doesn't work you can just use the links...

<img src="http://firehawk.epconline.com/images/fish/reef034.jpg" border="0" alt="">
This is the tank about a week after everything was in.

<img src="http://firehawk.epconline.com/images/fish/reef059.jpg" border="0" alt="">
This is one side of the tank a couple of day ago (about a month and a half into it).

[Dr. Beer]

My nano got like that at one point. Then I went to my LFS and bought some snails... he calls them pyramid snails (no they aren't astreas). No one has been able to ID them as of yet. They just roam around on my glass and rock and EAT ALL BAD algae in sight. This includes hair algae. One mowed over a patch of 1/2" long hair algae just this afternoon. The rock was bare behind it. And they eat ravenously. I'll describe 'em for you.

Mine are about 1"-2" large, kinda very light metallic green shell, which spirals up and to the right. The foot and mouth part are kind of a very light green with very pretty bright green striping on them, almost looks like it has zooxanthellae in it. Tough snails too. I found one that I had dropped behind my tank (accidentally knocked over the bag I was getting them from when stocking my tank) that had been there for at least 2 hours. Sucker was stuck to my wooden desk. I pulled it off, tossed it in the tank and within 1 minute it was eating away.

As soon as I get a digital camera I'll post some pics of them. The only thing they haven't touched is the substrate, but if they are on a rock and the substrate is in reach I've seen them stick their mouth on it and suck up bits of sand to clean them of algae.

[jhead67]

WOW!!!

How long has it looked like this? Mine has never lasted more than a couple of weeks. If the snail won't get on the substrate pull the little beggers off the glass and put them straight on the rocks.

What is your skimmer doing during all this? I had to clean and empty mine yesterday because it was caked up and half full.

Got run, darn customers, always bothering me when I'm busy. :)

[moze229]

It's been about a week and a half now. I'm actually emptying the skimmer cup on a daily basis. It's pulling out mostly diatom. You can even smell the stuff. You know how the LFS smells when you walk in? That's what my basement smelled like. I decided to go ahead and run some activated carbon for just a couple of days to see if it helps at all. It should pull some of the crap out of the water that this stuff is feeding on. I hooked it up last night and it seems that it's taken the smell out of the water. Looks a little clearer too. The skimmer is not nearly as active today. I'll keep chugging away at it!

[moze229]

Well, it finally looked like everything with the brown algae was dying down. I have now 15 astreas, 10 margaritas, and 4 strombus grazers (hopefully to be more soon - bubbles on the glass with eggs - yay!) At any rate, I decided to do a small water change. Bad idea. The diatoms came back, but not with the intensity as before. I'm also now starting to get some green in there as well so at least I know things are progressing some. I hate this, everything seems to be moving along so slow. You were saying 8 days, I am on day 48. All params of the water are great -

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
dKH - 9.0
Cal - 400
pH - 8.26
Temp 79 - 81 (Night - Day)

I will do NO MORE water changes until the green starts in heavy. I would like to start adding some softies soon but I'm scared that the diatoms will screw something up with them. I'll just do top offs until the diatoms are gone. This is a very exciting hobby but I hate waiting forever for the ugly stuff to go away.

[jhead67]

HEHE!!! You crack me up!!!

I told you about adding energy to your tank while you are trying to clear this up. But, enough with the I told you so’s. The good news now is that it’s almost over and the light blooms of diatom will go away much faster. The green stuff starting up is another good sign things should really start to speed up now, speed being relative of course. Hope you like lime green.:D

JMO, but you could add a few softies like mushrooms to perk to tank up after the diatom bloom goes away. I did and they did not seem to be affected at all. Honestly once you get mushrooms started you can’t hardly kill the things. If you’re willing to pay the shipping I can probably get you some red and blue mushrooms and some brown button polyps for a few bucks. But this time of year is not the best for shipping corals IMHO.

My next question is about your calcium. How are you adding it to your tank? Also, What kind of lights do you have? After the green stuff settles down we need to try and get your calcium up to 450+. Also you’ll need to start testing for magnesium and strontium. If the LFS will do the test for a few bucks that’s cool too. The reason is that the next algae that you’ll start to get is coraline, the good stuff, but the water conditions need to be right. Sounds like your on your way now. GL

What I've been doing:
I bought a 6-line wrasse the other day but the poor guy had ich. It took two days to show up and I had to break my thrity down to get him out so I could treat him. Now I’m having to redo all the aquascaping in the tank from the ground up.:mad: I think the wrasse is not going to make it, the stress is going to get him not the ich. And my orange Red Sea star lost the tips of his legs and didn’t move for two days, he might be goner too.:( I think it was from stirring up the sand bed, the bacteria in the water column might have done him in. The good new is that he moved off last night, I hope to recover. I’ll know when I see him next time. Other expensive and painful lesson learned. Now I have a 5 gallon QT tank, better late than never I guess, $25 well invested and highly recommended if your going to put fish in your reef.

Did you get any of the snow that went through north of here? Hope you did and you are having a very merry white Christmas!!!!

Sorry for the long post. But it’s been a while since we talked.

[moze229]

Well, the snow is on the way but it's not here yet. Supposed to be here later this afternoon. As far as calcium, I have not been adding any supplements. Cal from what I've been reading is fine at 400 for softies. I do not plan on keeping any SPS or anything. Not until I get more experience and more money for MH :)
As far as shipping coral, I agree. I do not want to get any livestock shipped until the spring. I've got some avid reefers arond here that I can pick some frags up from. Or there is always the LFS. A little pricey though.
In the 10 years I've been keeping fish, saltwater and fresh, I never bothered setting up a DSB. I always wondered why my nitrates where out of control no matter what I did. Now I know why :) Wet/Dry. Never got the diatom blooms with wet/dry, hence my inexperience with algae blooms.
About the quarantine, I have a 10gal I've had going for some time. Since large water changes are usually in order and I keep no inverts in there, I still run the wet/dry on the 10. There is also no substrate on the bottom. Just gets syphoned out now and then. All params usually stay great in there except for nitrates :)
I hope you have a great Christmas. Looks like it's just now starting to snow. I'll post back when something changes. Thanks again.

[moze229]

Well, the total snow fal the other day was 8" :) Anyway, the diatoms have appeared to run their coarse. It was almost an overnight occurance as they dissappeared. It's been four days now since I've seen them popping up anywhere. How long do you think I should wait until I start doing water changes again? God knows I don't want the diatoms back again :)

[jhead67]

Just check your basic four. If the trates are high then do a partial change. At this point IME the diatoms are basically gone. If they come back they will go away again in a day or so and they should never get as bad as your pic again.

How's the green stuff coming along? Got any hair algae yet? Did you ever pick up any softies?

It got all they way down to 40 here, burrrrrr!!!! That's cold in Texas.:D

[moze229]

All of the water parameters still seem to be OK. There is some super slow growing brown algae here and there, but the snails gobble it up pretty quick. I picked up three softies the other day. An umbrella leather, some shrooms and polyps. I'm still concerned a little with Cal, simply because I'm still at the beginning of the project and never had to maintain it before. With regular water changes from what I've been reading, Cal levels for softies SHOULD be OK without additives. My concern is doing another water change and causing another diatom bloom. I don't want to wait until I start detecting nitrates to do a water change. Perhaps I should do mini water changes - say 5-6 gallon a week. Total system volume with LR is probably about 60-65 gallon. What do you think?

[jhead67]

Happy new year!!!!

I don't think a small water change would hurt. With no bio-load to speak of and a DSB you may never see Nitrates, I don't, so don't use that as the only indication of when to do a change. The only thing in your tank that I know of that will use calcium right now is the snails. Doing regular water changes starting now that the diatom bloom is over is going to be the best way to go for a softies tank. That's kind of what I was saying about not worrying about the small blooms, after the water changes. Where are you getting your RO water?

I'm going to do a 3 gallon change on the thirty tomorrow, I made the fresh salt water tonight. Calcium levels of 400-450 are normal. I checked my calcium tonight with a new salifert test kit and was 540. :eek2: I don't know how much is too much but 540 is not normal. That's why I'm doing the water change, and will proably do another one or two this month until I get back to around 450.

Read on if you dare.(or if you care, simply babbling at this point)

My sick new 6-line wrasse died from shock. Shipping him, moving him to my tank, chasing him out of the tank, putting him in a medicated tank, was all just way to much. I knew it was but didn't feel I had any choice. They are shipping me another one after the 6th. I haven't seen my red sea star since he ran off to hide, not counting on him being in there anymore either. Even more good news after I got back from the holidays my bi-color blenny went carpet surfing and was stiff as a board when I found him. There's only a 6 inch space he could have gotten out of and he found it.:( I think at this point I'm sticking to corals, at least they stay where I put them.