Looking for equipment...

[TammyLiz]

I'm really anxious to get moving on setting up my new tank but having trouble settling on a final plan that I can afford. Getting stuff used would be a great help. I need a bargain.

I may be in the market for a single 250w MH retro or fixture, OR 36" t5 retro with individual reflectors (depends on which size tank I settle on, which depends on what kind of deal I can get on lights).

Also looking for a pump to use as a return from my sump.

Let me know what you have and I'll let you know if it'll work.

As a side note, does anyone know how much more electricity MH uses in comparison to T5? That could be a factor in my decision, too.

Thanks!

Tammy

[westcoastreef]

Hey I know that Atlantis has some used 250 watt set-ups

[surfnvb7]

it really depends on how "hands on" you are able to be with putting stuff together yourself (DIY). you can buy some pretty cheap retro parts, and piece together a lighting system from scratch basically....if you are comfortable with wiring stuff together.

you need to find out what kind of wattage the T5 ballast is rated for before you can compare it to a 250w MH. but keep in mind when you have to replace T5 bulbs, each costs $20-$30....and you'll have to replace them every 12 months or less depending on what kind of ballast you run.

versus only having to change 1 MH bulb at $60-$70 a year. (you may be able to find cheaper ones or go with more expensive ones)

[TammyLiz]

I hear so much conflicting information on how often bulbs need to be replaced, both with MH and T5, that I don't even know how to take bulb life into consideration.

If you're willing to help me make my decision I'll let you know what I'd like to choose from:

36"L 16"H tank w/ T5s (used would be great or possibly this one: http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1350 and I might start with one set and add another later)

36"L 16"H tank w/ dual 175W MH (Which I can get an excellent deal on from someone who works at the LFS closest to me)

24"L 20" H tank w/ 250W MH (would probably get a used one if I could find it)

I don't think I'm considering anymore going with T5s on the 24" tank because of the 20" height, since a few people have told me they don't penetrate as well as MH.

As far as cost, I know T5s don't budge much on the price but I've personally seen tanks lit with cheap ebay MH bulbs that maybe would look better with nicer bulbs but the coral looked fine. And I've read of people online that have had the same experience. I was considering possibly doing that. I'm not really wanting to get flamed over it, and my mind is not set by any means.

[surfnvb7]

what size tank are we talking about? gallons and the dimensions?

[J. Montgomery]

I think the second option is your best bet (36" long with 2 x 175W MH).

[TammyLiz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11272244#post11272244 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
what size tank are we talking about? gallons and the dimensions?

I listed the dimensions in my last post. The first two options are for a 36 inch long 30 gallon AGA. The second option is for a 24 inch long 25 gallon AGA.

[surfnvb7]

well.....a 36" 30g tank is a bit odd shaped IMO....as I've had this exact same tank in the past. its very narrow front to back (~12" i think)......making it hard to stack rocks. i kept a single 250w on this tank.....but i had major shadows on the sides, and i also kept 2x175's.....which worked but it was hard to fit the wide reflector over the tank.

but IMO....I'd look into getting a 50g AGA breeder tank (36" long, 18" wide, 18" tall). you can use the same 2x175w lighting on this size tank........like Josh suggested. you will be able to keep just about any coral under that lighting. IMO.....if you can use the same lighting setup on a larger tank....get the larger tank, you'll be happy you did as it won't cost that much more to maintain versus a 30g tank.

IMO......the 250w on the 25g tank is too much....(heat problems).

and IMO the T5 light isn't enough light for a 30g tank, other than just keeping lps and softies.

but take this with a grain of salt....there are MANY different ways to set things up in this hobby. but this is what i'd suggest based on my experience being in the same situation as you in the past.

[TammyLiz]

Thanks so much for all this help! I have had a hard time getting much input from anyone on the forums...it was a little bit of a shock because on freshwater forums you ask a question and a dozen people jump in with their opinions.

So anyways I am really appreciating this, guys.

Josh, I was going to reply to your post and say I was leaning towards that, too, but it wouldn't let me post again. :mad2:

I see the point about the tank with the wider "footprint" getting more use out of the MH lights but I already have a stand for the 36" x 12" and I'm not ready to buy/build another one right now. I have so much equipment from the freshwater hobby I feel obligated to use at least some of it! Its a nice solid wood stand I bought literally a decade ago at a yardsale for $10 and I've never used it! :mixed:

I could go deeper, for instance get the 38 gallon which is 20 inches deep instead of 16. Good idea/bad idea? The price difference is only $15 between the 30 and 38 gallon new. I'm not sure if I really need the extra depth or not, though. I may be able to add more LR later but for now I only have a little more than 30 lbs. Also, its easier to mess around in a shallower tank. Not that saltwater tanks need as much messing as fresh.

I think this is the ballast I can get from my friend at the LFS here:
http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=18405&cat=539&page=1

I would build a canopy and then either do the diy thing with taking apart the walmart or home depot floodlight fixtures or buy parts separately if I can figure out how to do that.

[surfnvb7]

i'd stick with the 30g. tall & narrow tanks are very hard to aquascape......unless you use cement/putty to put the rocks together since you have to stack them up very high.

when you purchase your live rock.....just purchase small chunks.....you don't want to put large boulders in there that take up all the room (right josh?? lol)

[J. Montgomery]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11272737#post11272737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
you don't want to put large boulders in there that take up all the room (right josh?? lol)
What the h#!!? Time to pull out my aluminum foil hat, b/c I think you've been reading my mind.

Funny you should mention that. My 55 gallon tank has a 12" depth to it. Aquascaping the rocks to allow you enough room to clean the glass on three sides is tricky. I have one large rock thats about the size of a muskmelon (look that one up all you foodies) that I've been contemplating breaking in half to gain some more valuable real estate . . . though at this point, pulling out that rock and then putting the tank back together is realistically a two day job :(

Once you get into things, you're going to find out that the tank and stand are among the cheapest parts of the hobby.

[TammyLiz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11273060#post11273060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by J. Montgomery
What the h#!!? Time to pull out my aluminum foil hat, b/c I think you've been reading my mind.

Funny you should mention that. My 55 gallon tank has a 12" depth to it. Aquascaping the rocks to allow you enough room to clean the glass on three sides is tricky. I have one large rock thats about the size of a muskmelon (look that one up all you foodies) that I've been contemplating breaking in half to gain some more valuable real estate . . . though at this point, pulling out that rock and then putting the tank back together is realistically a two day job :(

Once you get into things, you're going to find out that the tank and stand are among the cheapest parts of the hobby.

Ahh! Now you guys are scaring me!

Man, when you start talking about tank sizes things get all mucked up because there are so many factors. Talking about adding a lot of volume makes me feel like I need to talk about everything.

I'm running my 12G NC DX right now without a skimmer. I was thinking to upgrade and not add a skimmer, just continue with the water changes until later when I run into a great deal on a skimmer at the same time as I have some extra cash, if you know what I mean. I'll also have some more experience and a better idea of what I'd want. If I add too much to the water volume I won't be able to do that, I'll need a skimmer right away because I won't be able to do such large water changes. Also, I'll need some more rock. Things do start to get blown out of proportion, you know?

So in keeping with trying to keep things at a doable level for me right now, I was thinking 25 or 30 gallons sounded like a good size for me. I'll probably move within the next couple of years and I could upgrade size-wise at that time if I want.

I was going to do a 10 gallon sump, have a friend drill the main tank with a single bulkhead to drain down into it, and get a pump for a return that would come in over the rim. I could set up part of the sump as a fuge and leave room to add a skimmer later. I also considered doing a mailbox overflow (you've probably seen it, right?) with a hydor flo (which I already have) and a maxi-jet 900 (which I already have) for flow on one side of the tank, and have the return from the sump on the other.

I've read and read but like I said have had very little first hand advice so have no idea if this is a good plan or not.

And BTW, the 30 lbs of rock that I have right now is mostly around 6-8 inches which I feel like is pretty good. I had one huge piece that took up half the tank (it came with the NC when I bought it used), and the first thing I did was trade it for store credit at the LFS so I could get some more water in the tank! There are about 10 lbs in the cube now and I have about 20 in a bucket I bought locally a couple weeks ago.

[J. Montgomery]

30 gallon cubes are sweet!

[TammyLiz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11273955#post11273955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by J. Montgomery
30 gallon cubes are sweet!

One just sold right down the road from me on ebay for $95 two days ago. Nice looking, black and maple stand and tank with heater and (useless for saltwater) light.

[surfnvb7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11274005#post11274005 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TammyLiz
One just sold right down the road from me on ebay for $95 two days ago. Nice looking, black and maple stand and tank with heater and (useless for saltwater) light.

look at the local pet smarts for 30g cubes......they put some from the oceanic line of 30g cubes on sale a year ago....for about $90 brand new. (doesn't include stand or canopy obviously).

i got one of them......but dropped it a couple months later which broke the bottom pane of glass (its pretty heavy).

a 175w MH on that tank is perfect IMO.

[TammyLiz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11274060#post11274060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
look at the local pet smarts for 30g cubes......they put some from the oceanic line of 30g cubes on sale a year ago....for about $90 brand new. (doesn't include stand or canopy obviously).

i got one of them......but dropped it a couple months later which broke the bottom pane of glass (its pretty heavy).

a 175w MH on that tank is perfect IMO.

Aurgh! I bet you were so frustrated. Were you trying to carry it while it was wet?

So what about a 175W over the 25 high I was talking about? 24"Lx12"Dx20"H? I know the shape isn't as perfect as far as scaping goes but I have a stand (sort of, its actually a pie safe), and I could fit a 10 gal. under it (unlike the 30 cube).

[mr294]

A single 175w would work great over that 25g, particularly something like the iwasaki 15k.

[TammyLiz]

Err...you know what? I just found a 3 foot 50 gallon on craigslist with stand for $60. We'll see if she still has it. She did as of 30 minutes ago when I asked about the dimensions.

I could do that with the dual 175. If it doesn't work out I can go for the single over the 25.

Its crazy that this came up as I was going back and forth with you guys here on the forum because I've been keeping an eye out for a 3 ft. tank on ebay and craigslist for a couple of months and nothing right has come up yet.

[TammyLiz]

Well, I did get that tank. But I still can't decide if I want to go with the 2 ft. 25 gallon and a single 175w or the 3 ft. 50 gallon and the dual 175w. Whichever one I don't do, I'm going to set up as my only freshwater planted.

My husband pointed out tonight that probably the reason I can't decide is that although the two options are different I'm really going to be happy with either of them. I do this with a lot of things--I can't decide unless one choice is clearly better than the other.

If I do the larger tank it will not look as "full", especially at first, which would be bad, IMO. On the flip side, there will be room for it to grow, which would be good. In this case I may end up moving before things begin to look filled out in a year or two.

If I do the smaller tank it'll be closer to looking finished right away and I'll be able to have fun fine tuning it rather than looking at a lot of empty space for a long time.

Guess I'm just typing this out to help me make my mind up. Don't mind me. :lol:

[surfnvb7]

if there is one constant rule in the saltwater hobby......its always "go as big as you can!"

it sucks running out of room......lol

i almost wish i had a 3ft 50g tank instead of my 50g cube tank. i think i would have so much more room for corals due to the larger horizontal surface area.

[will_w]

Tammy, I have a 30 cube which has been drilled for a closed loop if you are interested. I would let that go pretty cheap. I also have a squid that alternates current between the returns and a few other items. I would need to get together a list of the other equipment for you but it is a pretty nice setup if you want a closed loop and the tank and equipment are in great shape. PM me if you are interested and I will put together a list of what I have. I'm in Richmond and will not ship but this would be a good way to get a 30 cube going if you are interested in that. I am running two other 30 cubes and they look nice. It is just a little difficult to light all the way to the bottom for corals with anything less than a 250. I use a 150 on one of mine, it has a large rock in the center and the corals on the top do pretty well, but lower down do not get enough light.

[TammyLiz]

OK I've made my decision. I'm going to do the 50 gallon with the dual 175W electronic ballast that my friend at the LFS here offered me (James). I stopped in and let him know this afternoon that I wanted it and he's also going to help me drill the tank! So I'm very excited. He is going to drill for two 1" bulkheads, one in each upper rear corner.

All I have on hand for a sump is a 10 gallon and a 20 gallon high, but I think the 10 is too small and the 20 has some little bubbles in the silicone which I redid myself last year, so although it does not leak, I might not do that just for the sake of starting out right with it. How much do bubbles really matter? I'm not sure...

So I might be looking for a tank for the sump if someone has one of those laying around that you want to get rid of let me know. A 15 or 20 gallon, or 29 gallon at the very most. It doesn't matter if it has scratches in it. Also still looking for a return pump. And eventually a skimmer but not right now unless you want to give it to me for free! :rolleyes:

Thanks will_w, ygpm.

surfnvb7 I know what you're saying about the more horizontal area...it does give so much more room. The cube issue is something I've run into with my 12 gallon nano cube. It almost seems like I would have more room in a standard 10 gallon tank because it is 5 inches longer (which in this case is a "big" difference since we're talking so small). The additional depth gives you more space for aquascaping creatively but at the same time it is almost less space considering you have less front glass.

[Hopeful Reefer]

If you had the necessary plumbing, you could always do 2 10g...one as the refugium and one as the sump...I have a 10g already drilled for an external return pump...1" bulkhead I believe is what I drilled it for...

[TammyLiz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11297487#post11297487 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hopeful Reefer
If you had the necessary plumbing, you could always do 2 10g...one as the refugium and one as the sump...I have a 10g already drilled for an external return pump...1" bulkhead I believe is what I drilled it for...

I'm trying to visualize how that would work. I haven't seen a setup like that before in detail. Which tank would come first and how would you plumb it? I'm thinking of several ways that it would work but haven't thought of one that wouldn't risk a flood.

Sorry for being such a noob.

[Hopeful Reefer]

I have a major paper due for college by midnight tonight...once I get that done, I'll post a drawing and explain it...

[J. Montgomery]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11303567#post11303567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hopeful Reefer
I have a major paper due for college by midnight tonight...once I get that done, I'll post a drawing and explain it...
Ouch, keeping busy, eh? Better you than me.

[Hopeful Reefer]

:lol: Yup...7 kids, one of which a new baby...major upheval/reorganization pending at work with a new Sheriff as of Jan. 1...college semester coming to a close...yup, definitely busy... :D

[xxtriggermanxx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11302109#post11302109 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TammyLiz
I'm trying to visualize how that would work. I haven't seen a setup like that before in detail. Which tank would come first and how would you plumb it? I'm thinking of several ways that it would work but haven't thought of one that wouldn't risk a flood.

Sorry for being such a noob.
I have a twentynine and a fifteen hooked together. just sit them side by side and drill a hole in the taller one above the rim of the shorter one.use a bulkhead fitting and that's now the overflow of the taller tank. put your return pump in the short tank and your display tanks drain lines will dump into the tall one. ..it works fine for me. :)

[Hopeful Reefer]

I've seen that, but I was thinking T the overflow & put a ball valve in to slow the flow through the fuge...since the 10s are small, you can stack them with the appropriate bracing, put them side by side, etc.

I'll post a drawing later...

[TammyLiz]

So awesome that you have 7 kids, Jason! I have two and they keep me plenty busy! I wouldn't mind having another but hubby isn't sure yet. We'll see. :D I can be patient. :rolleyes:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11303656#post11303656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxtriggermanxx
I have a twentynine and a fifteen hooked together. just sit them side by side and drill a hole in the taller one above the rim of the shorter one.use a bulkhead fitting and that's now the overflow of the taller tank. put your return pump in the short tank and your display tanks drain lines will dump into the tall one. ..it works fine for me. :)

So you would use the first tank as the fuge and it would be pretty much full, then drain into the smaller one which would contain skimmer, heater, pump? This was one of the ones that I had thought of in my mind as risking a flood since something from the fuge could clog that single overflow and then you'd end up with a flood equal to the amount of water above the overflow line in the main tank and the pump would run dry. Of course thats just me thinking, though. Is there something else to it?

[xxtriggermanxx]

If you allow any overflow no mater where it is to clog you will have a flood.. you need to check your levels when everything is shut down. once your levels are straight you just never over fill. this way when you have a power outtage you wont wet the carpet! depending how you set up your return into the display tank you might need to add a check valve. like i say have had it running about five years and no wet carpet so far.

[Hopeful Reefer]

One sure fire way to check any overflow situation is to not fill the sump/refugium with any water...put all the rest in, like rock rubble, skimmer, etc...turn the tank off and let it drain to the sump/refugium...then, you can add water to the tank where the return pump is leaving an inch or so from the top...then, start your pump back up and you should be golden...this will simulate a power outage and you'll know where the water will stop if it does go out or overflows...now, if the overflow from the 29 to the 15 were to clog, that will still cause a flood which can't be helped...

[TammyLiz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11304673#post11304673 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxtriggermanxx
depending how you set up your return into the display tank you might need to add a check valve.

The guy who is going to drill the tank for me was telling me that you have to drill a hole at the water level in the return to prevent a back siphon in case of a power outage. I had not even thought of that. I guess that is what you're talking about, too?

[TammyLiz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11306107#post11306107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hopeful Reefer
...now, if the overflow from the 29 to the 15 were to clog, that will still cause a flood which can't be helped...

Yes, thats the part I was worried about.

[xxtriggermanxx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11306961#post11306961 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TammyLiz
The guy who is going to drill the tank for me was telling me that you have to drill a hole at the water level in the return to prevent a back siphon in case of a power outage. I had not even thought of that. I guess that is what you're talking about, too?
yes . If you are bringing the return through the tank you should do it at the water level. but when your pump is on your water level is higher. so i think a check valve is still a good choice. better safe than sorry....and as i said before ,any overflow( no matter where it is in your system) when cloged will cause a possible spill.. if your overflow in your tank clogs all the water in your sump will overfill your tank. anyway enjoy your new tank :)

[TammyLiz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11307477#post11307477 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxtriggermanxx
yes . If you are bringing the return through the tank you should do it at the water level. but when your pump is on your water level is higher. so i think a check valve is still a good choice. better safe than sorry....and as i said before ,any overflow( no matter where it is in your system) when cloged will cause a possible spill.. if your overflow in your tank clogs all the water in your sump will overfill your tank. anyway enjoy your new tank :)

Oh yes, I think I will enjoy it! I am so excited about this, its almost silly.

So with the check valve would I need something like one of these?
https://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idproduct~FT9155.html
https://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~FT8955.html

Or do they sell something at the hardware store that would work just as well?

And if I use one, should I still drill that hole in the return? I'm not sure what you mean by bringing my return through the tank but if you're meaning drilled, then no. I was going to bring it over the top.

[Hopeful Reefer]

Still drill the hole...check valves, while some people have had great success with them, are more prone to be the weak point in the system and fail before most other equipment...

[xxtriggermanxx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11309398#post11309398 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TammyLiz
Oh yes, I think I will enjoy it! I am so excited about this, its almost silly.

So with the check valve would I need something like one of these?
https://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idproduct~FT9155.html
https://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~FT8955.html

Or do they sell something at the hardware store that would work just as well?

And if I use one, should I still drill that hole in the return? I'm not sure what you mean by bringing my return through the tank but if you're meaning drilled, then no. I was going to bring it over the top.

yes those valves are fine. you might be able to find some at depot or lowes . i have had better luck at lowes for finding plumbing parts but i'm sure (someone ) will disagree. the valves are not 100% but as I said since you are leary of a flood it will give you added insurance.. Do you know what you want to keep in the new tank?

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11303607#post11303607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hopeful Reefer
:lol: Yup...7 kids, one of which a new baby...major upheval/reorganization pending at work with a new Sheriff as of Jan. 1...college semester coming to a close...yup, definitely busy... :D


Holy Moley! With 7 kids how do you get anything done? I barely keep up with 2...

[Hopeful Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11314495#post11314495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
Holy Moley! With 7 kids how do you get anything done? I barely keep up with 2...

It is hard to keep up, but one thing that makes it easier is having 3 that are 12 or older...just order them to do something and take away privledges when they don't listen!! :D