A newbie question...

[stingythingy45]

I've had a 55 gallon set up since the end of July.
I used super cured LR(right from one tank to mine).
A new substrate of calcium based playsand.
I hade a pretty good sized diatom bloom.Then that disappeared,then a cyano outbreak.Then I added more flow and that went away.Now I seem to be having another small breakout of diatoms on the sand bed.I skim with a CPR Bak Pak 2 ,24/7.Is this all normal before a tank becomes stabalized an matures?Will the sand bed ever return to it's white clean look again?

Parameters

SG 1.025
Alk 8 DKH
CA. 425 ppm.
Temp. 78 deg.
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

Aquaclear 50,running carbon /PURA pads(change filter pad monthly)
CPR Bak Pak
2 maxijet 1200s
60 lbs. of LR
100 lbs. sand substrate
Always use RO/DI water purchased from LFS

[Capt_Cully]

definitely normal

[stingythingy45]

Thanks Cappytain Cully.....

I guess i'm just riding the rough seas until my setup pulls into port.

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Stingy,

Ask if the LFS can test that RO/DI you use for silica. Usually diatoms are not recurrent as they tend to use up the available silica and render it insoluble in their shell. After they pass on to greener pastures (or is that algae? :D ) they tend to disappear.

Some cities treat their tap water with silicates as a corrosion inhibitor. It is possible a defective RO/DI may pass some of this into the product water. Not sure if that is the case but it is worth checking out.

[stingythingy45]

Thanks waterkeeper,

I could ask if thier water is checked for silica.But I might walk out with a black eye.LMAO
Gee,some folks are real touchy about that stuff.It's like insulting their mother...nuck...nuck...nuck.Anyways,there's like lots of others from my local Reefer club that use the water.I don't have a TDS meter but it takes 2 days before I have to clean algae from the glass.And i'm not battling HA.

[capn_hylinur]

Do you have any fish in the tank as yet that you could be overfeeding---thus adding phosphates.
"curing" has become such a broad based word --your rock could be still curing and adding phosphates to the water---fueling the algae.
Getting 0 readings for nitrates only means they are undectable by the criteria or scale you are using.
They could be consumed as fast as they are produced--similar with phosphates--by the algae--and thus undectable.

[kdoodlie]

If you are feeding too much, or flake food- cyno can happen too

[stingythingy45]

The rock didn't have to cure.
It came right from one tank,1 hr. drive and into my tank.
It's been in there since July,had corals growing on it also(all survived the trip).
Overfeeding?Hmmmmmmm.......well,there's 5 fish and 1 anenome in a 55 gallon tank and I feed once a day.Sometimes a little flake,cyclopeeze,mysis or a shrimp pellet.And I do mean"OR".I also have two very large nassarius that pick up the scraps if any hit the substrate as well,also a CBS and some crabs.Fish include
1 lawnmower blenny
2 damsel fish(one yellow tail,one blue devil)
2 mated False Perc's
1 condylactis anenome(fed once every 3-5 days frozen shrimp or silver side thawed in tank water)

[Toddrtrex]

I would test the TDS of the LFS water you are getting, and I wouldn't be too surprised it is was above zero. Back in the day I used to get my water from my LFS, once I got my own RO/DI filter a lot of the issues I was having at the time went away.

[stingythingy45]

Yeah,that's going to be my next purchase for sure.
It's definitely on the Christmas list.
Along with a half a million other reef related stuff.lol

[capn_hylinur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11122005#post11122005 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stingythingy45
The rock didn't have to cure.
It came right from one tank,1 hr. drive and into my tank.
It's been in there since July,had corals growing on it also(all survived the trip).


live rock can cure alot longer then that---they can also leech out phosphates, nitrates etc from their core for much longer periods then that.

[capn_hylinur]

[i]
Overfeeding?Hmmmmmmm.......well,there's 5 fish and 1 anenome in a 55 gallon tank and I feed once a day.Sometimes a little flake,cyclopeeze,mysis or a shrimp pellet.And I do mean"OR".I also have two very large nassarius that pick up the scraps if any hit the substrate as well,also a CBS and some crabs.Fish include
1 lawnmower blenny
2 damsel fish(one yellow tail,one blue devil)
2 mated False Perc's
1 condylactis anenome(fed once every 3-5 days frozen shrimp or silver side thawed in tank water) [/B]

you still can add phosphates--

rinse the frozen mysis with r/o water before addding---they are known to contain phosphates from the growing tanks

make sure the anemone is eating the food--sometimes it is too big for them and the spit it out--mine has done that and it is quickly grabbed by a brittle star and dragged on the rocks--but it may not all be eaten right away.

if you can switch to 2-3 light feeds a day--that way more of the food gets eaten up

Just and after thought---------
I also just read a post where it stated that feeding silver sides in some cases was not a good idea because some corals and anenomes can't handle the bone structures.

[stingythingy45]

Well thanks Capn,

I'll start to rinse the frozen mysis with RO for now on.I've been using tank water up until now.
I sure would like to feed a little each day but I'm at work for 10 hrs of it and can't purchase an auto-feeder yet.I know that small feedings throughout the day are great for chromis as well.
The condylactis I have seems to always eat the 1/3 piece of silverside or shrimp slice I feed it every 3-5 days.
Those small critters like the brittle star/nassarius snails can certainly save bits of food from screwing up the water quality.
That's good to know about the silversides.
BTW,sorry about seeming a little closed and quick with my other reply.
The day wasn't going very well.
One thing is for sure,I'll never stop learning new things in this hobby.

[capn_hylinur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11128089#post11128089 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stingythingy45
Well thanks Capn,

I'll start to rinse the frozen mysis with RO for now on.I've been using tank water up until now.
I sure would like to feed a little each day but I'm at work for 10 hrs of it and can't purchase an auto-feeder yet.I know that small feedings throughout the day are great for chromis as well.
The condylactis I have seems to always eat the 1/3 piece of silverside or shrimp slice I feed it every 3-5 days.
Those small critters like the brittle star/nassarius snails can certainly save bits of food from screwing up the water quality.
That's good to know about the silversides.
BTW,sorry about seeming a little closed and quick with my other reply.
The day wasn't going very well.
One thing is for sure,I'll never stop learning new things in this hobby.

that's what keeps the hobby from becoming boring and you and I broke:rollface:

reading between the lines--I meant it was important to rinse off the frozen foods before using them--it doesn't matter if it is tank water or r/o

[stingythingy45]

When I feed my routine is like this.
I have a small tupperware cup that I widdle off about three or four good slivers from one of the mysis cubes.I add a little tank water and wait a bit for it to thaw.Then I start by pouring a third in the tank.Then after a few minutes another third,then the last of it.Sometimes I feed cyclopeeze instead.Other times it will be flake food and Ora pellets for the False Perc's.After the lights go out and the actinics are one i'll drop in one shrimp pellet.The fish will play soccer with it for a while before the CBS or a nassarius finally claims it.Lately i've been adding a third of a cube of herbavor food.I have a rather large Mythrax that seem to be looking for a little extra sometimes.One good thing is he's found that bubble algae taste good.:-)

[capn_hylinur]

can a suggest adding the frozen food/cubes to a small brine net--then over the sink pour in r/o water or tank water until rinsed a few times. then add the rinsed contents in the brine net to your tank--that way you have rinsed away the phosphates.

Everytime I add a cube or two of mysis to the tank without rinsing because I am in a rush------I guarantee I can come home from work to find the front glass covered with nuisance algae.

[WaterKeeper]

I'm still puzzled on where the silicates are coming from. As I said, they are not normally a recurrent problems and while present in food they are not all that soluble. The water conditions present during the curing of LR are conducive to silica leaching in soluble form from sponge skeletons. After that there is usually no other time where they venture into solution unless a soluble form enters the tank. The most likely candidate for that is the makeup water.

[stingythingy45]

Last night I siphoned off the sand and did a 3 gallon water change.It actually had the sand matted together again like the first time I experienced this.The typical brown bubbles all over the substrate as well.It was only on the sand not on any of the rock or glass.I run a skimmer 24/7 and have been doing at least 5-6 water change every two weeks.I dose only B-Ionic 2 part and one cap of kent iodine every other week.I run an HOB auquaclear 50 with PURA phosphate removal pad and carbon.
One other thing,about twice a week I target feed Phyto-Feast.
Thanks for the help guys.

[capn_hylinur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11135051#post11135051 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
I'm still puzzled on where the silicates are coming from. As I said, they are not normally a recurrent problems and while present in food they are not all that soluble. The water conditions present during the curing of LR are conducive to silica leaching in soluble form from sponge skeletons. After that there is usually no other time where they venture into solution unless a soluble form enters the tank. The most likely candidate for that is the makeup water.

Tom, I just read over the entire thread----why are you convinced it is silicates and not phosphates?

--and if it is silicates could it still be related to the initial use of play sand?

[stingythingy45]

The play sand was Home Depot Pavestone brand I think the name on the pagage was High Dessert play sand.
It's very white and fizzed like crazy under vinegar.
The sign above it said "tropical".
I have 2 50 lbs. bags in there.
I rinsed the crap out of it first with tap water.But,that was back at the end of July.

[capn_hylinur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11135257#post11135257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stingythingy45
The play sand was Home Depot Pavestone brand I think the name on the pagage was High Dessert play sand.
It's very white and fizzed like crazy under vinegar.
The sign above it said "tropical".
I have 2 50 lbs. bags in there.
I rinsed the crap out of it first with tap water.But,that was back at the end of July.

I am by no means on a soap box here--but IMHO--the two most important bases of your reef tank are your substrate and live rock. Persoanlly I would not cut corners here--I would buy good quality live rock and a good quality argonite.

I have read alot of threads where sooner or later reefers develop problems if they cut corners here.

That said I don't know if that is your problem and what you can do about it right now.
If some one can suggest away for you to get rid of that playsand --I would take their advise however and get a good quality argonite;)

[stingythingy45]

Well,my personal opinion is sand=sand.
And there's no way that I will spend that kind of money for it.
Live rock conjures up thoughts of divers picking broken reef pieces and placing them in a net the be retrieved.Sand,now that brings to mind some overwieght dude sitting on a backhoe filling a truck and saying"I can't believe the $$$ people pay for this crap".
So with that said,until aragonite "sand"prices come down.They will not get any of my money from me, and I trust a lot of new hobbiest also.........(stepping off soapbox).lol

[stingythingy45]

Well,
I just went on a site looking at silica test kits.

"Silicate occurs in tap water or purified water when the reverse osmosis or de ionizing unit is not functioning properly.
Silicate can result in diatom bloom and can block some essential trace elements such as vanadium and molybdenum."

Who knows,maybe the LFS had a problem with their RO/DI.
I did a water change and siphoned up most of the bloom.
Anyways,thanks guys.

Next question.
If the silicates are removed from the water via(used by the diatoms).Will the bloom not return.I have approx. 20 gallon left from the last trip to the LFS.I believe now that the bloom occured from my last water change(two weeks ago).That was a different trip.:( ....Gee,even when you try to do things right.things come and bite yah.....
I suppose this could happen to hobbiest even with their own RO system if not maintained properly.

[WaterKeeper]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11135236#post11135236 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
Tom, I just read over the entire thread----why are you convinced it is silicates and not phosphates?


Because I said so. So there! :D

Phosphate usually encourage green algae, not diatoms. Though related,the diatoms thrive on silicates to form their tiny little houses (shells). After they pass on, the silicate structures they produce are no longer soluble and not available to baby diatoms who, through the lack of proper housing, become fish or snail food. It is all a question of how available the silicate is. If the tap water contains silicates then it is soluble. If not, then diatoms should not be a problem.