Dead cleaner shrimp

[smartang22]

I bought two cleaner shrimp yesterday evening from a LFS. This morning I found one dead and the other one is missing. I checked the water parameters before adding them and they were fine (ammonia = 0, nitrates = 0, nitrites = 0, pH = 8.0, temp = 80). I acclimated them by floating them for 1/2 to get to the tank temp and then took about 1.5 hours by pipetting tank water into the bag a small amount at a time. Now I can't figure out why I am out $50.

I have a yellow watchman goby, a clown, a pom pom crab, snails and hermits, some mushrooms, xenia, green star polyps and two feather worms.

I am very confused and sad because the shrimp died. I had two other cleaner shrimp but about a month ago both died unexpectedly. I had one die and then a few days later the other one followed. I never could figure out why. I never found their bodies either. This time I found one body and not the other. I am going to take some water to the LFS and have them test it and if it isn't my fault I hope they will at least replace the shrimp that I will bring in. But of course they have a "no refunds" policy. It makes me not want to buy anything from there again. (sigh)

Any insight would be appreciated!!!:confused:

[blennyguy]

Could be your Goby, they have been known to eat shrimp. Sorry for the loss
Todd

[dsn112]

From what my friend told me, inverts need a very long acclimation, even longer than you did. Could have been the goby, but I was told to not put the bag in tank and to empty the bag into a bucket, and start a drip with a drop every two seconds for about 3 hrs. Takes forever I know, but thats what he told me. Has been in the hobby for 15 years.

[GoingPostal]

What's your salinity and how are you testing it?

[pikachusalad]

Well...not finding a corpse doesn't really help determine if a crime has been comitted - may have been killed by something, and may have been "cleaned up" post-mortem by your crabs and snails.

No refunds on shrimp is pretty common...simply because they ARE very sensitive... You'd think one out of 4 could handle a 1.5 hour acclimation though....

Have you tested for copper? Used any copper-based medication for ich or the like? I'd test your water even if you haven't used anything, and if you come up clean, have the store do a test for copper on the tank the shrimp came from...you never know.

It's also possible that you have some sort of shrimp eating pest - maybe came in some of your LR...I've read posts where people have caught bad crabs, etc., with traps...though I'm not sure how to put one together. Something to consider though.

[capn_hylinur]

are you sure you found a body and not a molt---the molt can be pretty convincing sometimes.

[joeychitwood]

I was certain that one of my Skunk Cleaner shrimp had died, as I found even antennae attached to the "body." It turned out to be a molt shell. Look around the tank tonight after the lights go out. You may find that your shrimp are still alive.

[AquaReeferMan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11119885#post11119885 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blennyguy
Could be your Goby, they have been known to eat shrimp. Sorry for the loss
Todd

Wha?? I have never seen/heard anything about a Yellow Watchman Goby eating or even trying to attack a shrimp. They form symbiotic relationships with pistol shrimp. I have one with many different species of shrimp. Where did you get that piece of information from?

[AquaReeferMan]

Also it is very common for shrimp to molt when they are first introduced to a new tank. If this is the case you wont see them for a while. They will hide out until there new outer shell hardens.

[blennyguy]

About the shrimp eating Goby, i read it on another board, i was curiouse about it too, but he swore to it, and it was a Diamond goby. BUt if the shrimp is truly gone and theres no other answer, ie. Molt or eaten by clean up crew, Its always a possibility, Ive seen stranger things for sure.
Todd

[capn_hylinur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11120990#post11120990 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AquaReeferMan
Also it is very common for shrimp to molt when they are first introduced to a new tank. If this is the case you wont see them for a while. They will hide out until there new outer shell hardens.

it is uncommon but it happened to me--and you are right I didn't see them for two weeks.

[Dingo Dog]

Sorry for your loss. IMO, the acclimation time should have at least been doubled. Not sure the Goby did it. I'd suspect the clown before the Goby.
If you aren't already, you'll need to start testing/dosing for cal/alk. Shrimp need those to molt and grow. Cal 400-450. Alk 10-12.
Do you have a refractometer vs. the swing type for testing your salinity? Salinity should be 1.024 - 1.025.
When shrimp molt they find the darkest & safest place because in the molting process they temporarily loose their sight. Mine usually check out for 3-4 days.

[ROB2005]

Look carefully for them, the molt can fool anyone easily. They love to set up shop in crevices, so that they may be your best place to look for them

[smartang22]

Yeah, this is an odd one for me. I found a full body and what looked like a "shell" behind the rocks. I knew they might molt when they first get in the tank and in fact I expected it. Like I said the body was at the top of the tank and the goby and pom pom crab hang out at the bottom. HOWEVER...I did find the shell and antenne by the goby's lair. My previous shrimp would try and clean the goby and he would never puff up at them, but insead would just swim away. He has never been aggressive unless the clown is taunting him!! :D

My salinity is at 1.025, calcium is at 420, alk is at 11. The LFS had their salinity at 1.020, which is much lower. This could explain the death I guess. I talked to the guy (he has been at this for 28 years) and he said the only time they have a loss of inverts is though acclimating. So this time I got a peppermint shrimp and I am going to take about 2-3 hours to acclimate him. This will hopefully show whether it is the acclimating or something else.

Does anyone think it could be the pom pom crab? I researched them and although there is not much info on them the stuff I found was that they are peaceful and mostly hide and only get mean when something comes into their area.

Thanks for the info and experience!!!:rollface:

[jake32010]

one of your fish could have eaten the othe shrimp

[smartang22]

I have been acclimating for about 1.5 hours now and I rechecked the salinity in the bag where the shrimp is. It is around 1.016!!!!!!! No way! At the LFS he tested their tank and he claimed it was 1.019 which is low. But even after adding the pipettes full of water for all of this time I can't see how the salinity has gotten lower. Something seems wrong. If this was the case yesterday then no wonder the shrimp died. What a shock! I guess this is going to take at least another 1.5 hours!

This just goes to show you that nothing is as simple as it may seem.

[capn_hylinur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11124899#post11124899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smartang22
I have been acclimating for about 1.5 hours now and I rechecked the salinity in the bag where the shrimp is. It is around 1.016!!!!!!! No way! At the LFS he tested their tank and he claimed it was 1.019 which is low. But even after adding the pipettes full of water for all of this time I can't see how the salinity has gotten lower. Something seems wrong. If this was the case yesterday then no wonder the shrimp died. What a shock! I guess this is going to take at least another 1.5 hours!

This just goes to show you that nothing is as simple as it may seem.

IMO it is reefer beware when dealing with LFS---often the staff has very little experience--never mind a more diversified experience that again in my opionion is needed.
LFS stores in this area have been found to run salinity as low as 1.013--in the believe that this stressed out the fish less----this is a very debateable subject.
Always test the water in the bag when you get home---it will determine the length of acclimatization for you--------
and everything gets quarantined before entering the main tank.

[capn_hylinur]

.............by using the qt and knowing the water chemistry of the LFS you can adjust the water chemistry of the qt tank so the acclimitation period and stress is less--then gradually over a standard qt of 4 weeks raise it to the level of your main tank.
I do this with all my fish now--at the 4 week period I can add them directly to the main tank with little evidence of stress on their part other then the net.

[GoingPostal]

I wouldn't buy any inverts from that store, that is fatally low for them and the multiple salinity changes are probably too hard on their system, are you using a refractometer or hydometer?

[cmejaf30]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11124899#post11124899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smartang22
I have been acclimating for about 1.5 hours now and I rechecked the salinity in the bag where the shrimp is. It is around 1.016!!!!!!! No way! At the LFS he tested their tank and he claimed it was 1.019 which is low. But even after adding the pipettes full of water for all of this time I can't see how the salinity has gotten lower. Something seems wrong. If this was the case yesterday then no wonder the shrimp died. What a shock! I guess this is going to take at least another 1.5 hours!

This just goes to show you that nothing is as simple as it may seem.

Are you using a calibrated refractometer or a swinging-arm hydrometer? The hydrometers are not very accurate and for a small investment you can get a great refract. They are a lot more reliable/precise. Just wondering. Good luck...hope it works(ed) out!

[smartang22]

Well!!! I lost the peppermint shrimp too. He molted in the bag after 2 hours when the salinity had gotten up to 1.019. After 3 hours I had the it up to 1.022 and added more water before finally adding him at 3.5 hours of acclimating. I am sad about killing three shrimp!!! This is not good and I am upset at the LFS too.

He lied about their specific gravity being 1.019. After an hour of adding my tank water to the bag it had finally reached that. I believe it was around 1.016 when I started. If I would have known that I would not have bought the shrimp for fear of stress. I know that I will probably not get any more livestock from that place again. Plus I just wasted $50 only to kill what I bought. That is the worst part.

I guess I will not be getting any shrimp anytime soon. But I will be getting a refractometer next paycheck.

Thanks again.

[capn_hylinur]

Sorry that happened---but consider it a cheap lesson learned.

My very first lesson learned : the first purchase I made was from a Moorish Idol. The LFS store convinced me it was eating romanine from a veggie clip--even demonstrated.
The fish died two days later in the tank.

[capn_hylinur]

I guess I will not be getting any shrimp anytime soon. But I will be getting a refractometer next paycheck.

Thanks again. [/B]

I can understand you being leeary----but there are things you can do.

set up a quarantine tank-----all future purchase should go into the qt tank--minimum 4 weeks. This helps observe/treat ich, get difficult fish to feed, and adapt to differences in salinty level that you have already experienced.

Don't use that provider anymore.

Your acclimatization technique was great-----those shrimp could have been overstressed, starved, old etc etc before you even bought them---things you can be more knowledgeable about in the future.

[jcpatella]

I went through this a couple of weeks ago also. I went back to the store with a sample of my water and he looked at me like I was nuts because I keep my SG at 1.025. He said I need to drop my SG down to 1.021, if not lower. Then, he'd sell me another shrimp.

I went to a more reputable store, purchased another shrimp, and acclimated VERY slowly. He's still doing great. Don't hesitate to question what the LFS tells you - the deaths may not completely be your fault.

[pikachusalad]

Just to support the refractometer purchase...

My "deep six" hydrometer reads 1.022 when my calibrated refractometer reads 1.0265. And it's not consistently off by .0045 either, depending on what it reads, it varies between being off by .002 and .005. And that's when there aren't micro bubbles (that I can see at least) sticking to the needle...

A refractometer is really pretty cheap, considering what you're using it for, and how much you spend on livestock...

[jcpatella]

I to am in favor of the refractometer purchase. I personally need to get one too. My hydrometer was reading 1.021 and when I took it to two LFS they both told me it was 1.025. Currently I have it marked on my hydrometer where my SG should be until I actually go and by the refractometer.

[capn_hylinur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11137863#post11137863 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jcpatella
I to am in favor of the refractometer purchase. I personally need to get one too. My hydrometer was reading 1.021 and when I took it to two LFS they both told me it was 1.025. Currently I have it marked on my hydrometer where my SG should be until I actually go and by the refractometer.

nothing stopping you from taking it with you to the LFS store either:smokin: ;) ;)

[smartang22]

Yes, this has been a lesson learned. I feel better about the whole acclimating issue but still sad that three shrimp had to die. I will be purchasing the refractometer ASAP. And from now on I will grill any store about their parameters. They are so quick to point a finger at a customer saying that they are right and we are wrong. Next time I will be prepared. I know that most people agree that the specific gravity should never be at the level the store had it at; 1.019. I will also QT. I did for the fish, but I didn't think I needed to with the shrimp. I guess it would be worth it.

Does anyone have any input on the portable refractometer from Dr. Fosters and Smith? It is on sale right now and it can also be calibrated which I know is important. If anyone has any other suggestions I would appreciate it!

I guess I can put another notch in the headboard for this experience!!

[capn_hylinur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11143649#post11143649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smartang22
Yes, this has been a lesson learned. I feel better about the whole acclimating issue but still sad that three shrimp had to die. I will be purchasing the refractometer ASAP. And from now on I will grill any store about their parameters. They are so quick to point a finger at a customer saying that they are right and we are wrong. Next time I will be prepared. I know that most people agree that the specific gravity should never be at the level the store had it at; 1.019. I will also QT. I did for the fish, but I didn't think I needed to with the shrimp. I guess it would be worth it.

Does anyone have any input on the portable refractometer from Dr. Fosters and Smith? It is on sale right now and it can also be calibrated which I know is important. If anyone has any other suggestions I would appreciate it!

I guess I can put another notch in the headboard for this experience!!

this is the one I use--cost about 60 dollars up here in Canada.
Here's a good link on them(you can substute the wine with sea water---wait who the heck would want to do that:lol:

http://www.grapestompers.com/articles/refractometer_use.asp+