I am at the breaking point of giving up!

[realest]

Ok, I have already got plenty of slaps from the other thread in regards of having too many fishes/corals too fast.

As you may know, for the past 2 weeks, i already have 4 fishes that die for unknown reasons.

So here is what i have and let see if any can help.

My setup is a 55gal tank with 3 inch sand, and about 80lbs of live rocks.
I also do have a 24gal fuge with micro algae, 15lbs of live rocks, and 6 inch sandbed.

My current left over live stock is: (1) Nemo, (1) Mandarin Goby, (1) Scooter Blenny, (1) Demsel, (2) Cleaner Shrimp, (2)Emerald Crab, (4) Mexican Turbo Snail, (5) Regular Snails, (4) Blue Leg Hermit Crab, (5) Regular Hermit Crab.

As far as corals goes: (1) Lobophilia, (1) Neon Frog spwan, (1) Duncan, (1) Clove, (1) Yellow Polyps, (1) Gonipora, (1) Maximus Clam, (1) Star Polyps, (1) Dandaphilia.

My tank have been setup in late Aug of 2007.

As i mention, i have lost 4 fishes in 2 weeks time frame.

The problem i am having right now is, My Lobophilia is no longer opening up. Also my Mandarin have lots of white dots all over (Color is fading) and it don't swim around like it used to.

I have checked my water and here is the result:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Alkalinity - 175
PH - 8.2
Calcium - 390
Phosphate - 0
Granity - 1.026
Salinity - 35ppt
Temp - 79.5 F

I believe my fish have ich. If so, what can i do?

I do not have a qt tank and not able to set one up. What can i do?

Please help!!

[clayspst]

white dots maybe ich

[realest]

What can i do? I don't want all my livestock to die. Is there a way i can cured this sickness?

[Ritten]

Feed a variety of food soaked in garlic. I don't think your tank is established enough for the mandarin and the scooter. They both need an established tank with pods. You may want to get that damsel out. He may be bullying the other fish and stressing them out. Sometimes you don't even see the bullying, it happens at night. Before giving up, I would get rid of the mandarin and scooter (see if the lfs will take them) get rid of the damsel, get your clown back healthy and restock later down the line after researching the fish you want.

[svb57]

Way to many problems for you to have at this time.....Find a friend that has an established tank and give most of the items to him/her.

To early to have a clam...to early to have the Mandarin...to early to have anything except couple fish!

Give the items away before they all die....Then READ READ READ.

[SpinningHat]

Sounds like Ich. If you dose with copper in the display, say bye-bye corals and most likely inverts. You need to get something to be able to QT those fish. If you don't there's a good chance you could dose with copper, and save the fish, but then your coral investment is gone.

I've had freshwater a long time, and I've been lurking here for a couple months, and I'm still nervous about taking the marine plunge.. Patience is key.. You need to act now to save that livestock!

[realest]

Omg..... I do not have a friend that is into this hobby. My mandarin have plenty of white dots on his and i dont believe the lfs will take him.

Is there a way i can cured this fish? He looks sick and i am about to tear just seeing him suffering.

Please, there got to be a solution.

[Playa-1]

Get a QT :(
You should be able to save them.
A QT should be one of the 1st things on your list.

[realest]

as i mention. i do not have the money or the space to setup a qt tank. Is there any other way?

How about fresh water dip. Will that help any at all?

Also, i was wondering. will the ich spread? All my other fishes looks fine as of this moment. Only the mandarin looks sick.

Please advice

[SpinningHat]

Yes, the Ich will spread. You need to get those fish out of that tank to save everything. You don't need an 'aquarium' to use as a QT tank.. Get something that holds water that you can throw a filter and heater and light on.

[realest]

I dont have a filter, but can i use a 5gal bucket and put a heater along with a powerhead? Will that work?

[MinnFish]

Realest. I just don't get it. The board has continue to give you advice. Which you have not taken as of yet. You continue to buy from a LFS that don't give a hoot (except taken your money). You have spent tons of money on livestock and coral (against the advice of some experts here). Now you say "I can afford a QT". I don't mean to sound harsh, but listen to yourself. Over and over again, the board has advise you to slow down. You charge full steam ahead, and then you wonder why you are having bad experiences. I might get in trouble for this post. But, someone had to tell you. Tuff love, my friend. I hope you find something positive from this. Leave the LFS alone, they have taken you for a helluva ride. Peace.

[Vinnie71975]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11100436#post11100436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by realest
Ok, I have already got plenty of slaps from the other thread in regards of having too many fishes/corals too fast.

As you may know, for the past 2 weeks, i already have 4 fishes that die for unknown reasons.

So here is what i have and let see if any can help.

My setup is a 55gal tank with 3 inch sand, and about 80lbs of live rocks.
I also do have a 24gal fuge with micro algae, 15lbs of live rocks, and 6 inch sandbed.

My current left over live stock is: (1) Nemo, (1) Mandarin Goby, (1) Scooter Blenny, (1) Demsel, (2) Cleaner Shrimp, (2)Emerald Crab, (4) Mexican Turbo Snail, (5) Regular Snails, (4) Blue Leg Hermit Crab, (5) Regular Hermit Crab.

As far as corals goes: (1) Lobophilia, (1) Neon Frog spwan, (1) Duncan, (1) Clove, (1) Yellow Polyps, (1) Gonipora, (1) Maximus Clam, (1) Star Polyps, (1) Dandaphilia.

My tank have been setup in late Aug of 2007.

As i mention, i have lost 4 fishes in 2 weeks time frame.

The problem i am having right now is, My Lobophilia is no longer opening up. Also my Mandarin have lots of white dots all over (Color is fading) and it don't swim around like it used to.

I have checked my water and here is the result:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Alkalinity - 175
PH - 8.2
Calcium - 390
Phosphate - 0
Granity - 1.026
Salinity - 35ppt
Temp - 79.5 F

I believe my fish have ich. If so, what can i do?

I do not have a qt tank and not able to set one up. What can i do?

Please help!!

I would also take out about 4 inches of the sand DSB can be a serious hazard for an inexperienced reefer who doesn't know what the signs of it going south are. Just my 2 cents. I thought Skunk Cleaner Shrimp ate Parasite like Ich off of fish?

PS a cheap 10g tank,power head and heater will cost you a total of maybe 40bucks at wal mart and will work as a hospital/QT tank. If you are in Northern Ohio PM me i have a spare 10g tank i can give you for QT. If not Go to Walmart and GET ONE! here is the break down the tank 10.00 the Power Head 18.99 the heater around 10.00 No reason most people with a job couldn't afford that. if all else fails take 10g water out of your main tank for it to eliminate the 7.00 for a box of Salt for a 10g tank.

[realest]

OK thanks for all your inputs. My last question. Does corals or can corals get ich?

My Brain seems to be sick. Again, i am not sure if that is possible. Please advice!

[bertoni]

Corals can't get ich. It's a fish-only parasite.

[MinnFish]

Only on livestock. Its a parasite, need blood to survive.

[kawicivic]

corals cant get ich... also trade your goniopora to someone and maybe they could give you a heater for your QT tank. Goniopora is not anything close to a startup coral.

[Sk8r]

Your calcium should be 420.
Ph is ok.
Alk should be about 8.3.

You can use a white polystyrene bucket from the paint dept at Lowe's hardware to serve as a qt. No sand, no rock in there. Use a small corner filter with blue-white filter medium that has NO carbon in it! [Carbon would remove the medicine as fast as you put it in.]
Control the temp to a precise 80 degrees. No light necessary.
Does the mandarin eat any frozen or pellet food? If so you may save him: if not, I'm afraid he will starve in qt. THey normally eat only copepods, which will not exist in that tank.
Medicate for ich: follow the directions precisely. And measure the amount of water in that bucket, to calculate your medicine dose exactly. Math matters, here. Mark that water level in black ink on the outside of the bucket and keep the water level exactly there: add ro/di water to keep it so. Treat only the fish, not the invertebrates.
Improve the water in your main tank to save your corals.
Do you have a skimmer? A sump? A reactor?

You are indeed on the verge of losing things. Your way out is to do precise math, precise chemistry, and keep it rock solid.
ph 7.9-8.3
alk 8.3-9.3
cal 420
salinity 1.025
temp 80
no nitrate, ammonia, or nitrite.
Good luck to you.

[Leandrae]

While it sounds like your mandarin is sick, it may not have ick. As I understand it, mandarins have a thick 'slime' coat which makes them pretty ick resistant (although not immune). The white spots you are seeing on it may actually be grains or small clumps of sand stuck in that slime coat.

When my mandarin was asleep, she looked for all the world like she was dead. She was very pasty looking and had quite a lot of sand stuck to her...freaked me out big time the first time I saw that! An hour later after the lights came back on, she was swimming around looking perfect.

Now, it sounds like yours has the white patches all the time and is not swimming normally so it sound like its definately not doing well. It could be ick, it could be another fish is picking on it so it buries itself in the sand (getting sand stuck on it) or it could be starving to death.

Unless a mandarin is eating prepared foods, they generally do not do well in a quaranteen tank. What I would suggest is to find a local reef board and post there to find it and your scooter blenny a new home. They are traditionally hard to feed, generally only eating the pods in a tank. Since your tank is so young, there is not a huge pod population in it yet, and those two fish in particular are competing for the same foods. Seriously, wait a year, then get another mandarin.

As far as the other fish in the tank, since you do not have a quaranteen tank, you'll just have to go with feeding a good variety of quality food soaked in vitamins and garlic. I don't know that there is much concrete evidence to support the vitamin and garlic theory, but it cannot hurt (as long as you don't dump in a bottle of each!) When I prepare frozen food, I thaw it in tank water and add 3 drops of Vitachem, 1 drop of Marine-C, and a small splash of Seachem's Garlic Guard. So far (knock on wood) I have not had a single ick outbreak yet (or any illness).

The biggest advice I can offer has already been offered....slow down!! Stop buying new things for your tank. Instead of focusing on adding things to make it look better, focus on testing for water quality, feeding practices, and basic tank maintenance for now in order to make your current tank, as it stands this very minute, look even better. It doesn't do any good to keep throwing money into the tank with new life if it keeps dying off.

To those that are jumping on him about not listening to advice here, some people just have to learn by experience. Eventually he will be just like us, passing along pearls of fishy wisdom to newbie, telling them to SLOW DOWN! :D

Good luck with your tank!

[StevenBell2]

While you may have ich without a QT tank,not all is lost.I had the absolute worst case of ich ever about a year ago in 30 gal tank.Like you I did not have a QT at the the time.I did however do a little research and contacted my LFS about it.They told me that if you have a large reef tank(coral,inverts,fish)that by slowly increasing the temperature to around 90 deg F. over a 3 day period,it would kill the parasitc plague with in a week(give or take).I tried it...AND IT WORKED!
This told me 2 things.I needed to do more research and I needed a QT.I now have a QT and research everyday.
Honestly,A tank that size-I would have had no livestock in for around 3 months.Just as a precaution and to let it establish a bit before adding anything.Good luck with this and listen to folks who have been in it for a while.-------Steven

[realest]

thanks for all your hrlp

[wooden_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11100650#post11100650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by realest
as i mention. i do not have the money or the space to setup a qt tank. Is there any other way?

How about fresh water dip. Will that help any at all?

Also, i was wondering. will the ich spread? All my other fishes looks fine as of this moment. Only the mandarin looks sick.

Please advice

If you cannot QT, then you should aim at a reef tank without a single fish.

IME, QT is necessary if you want to keep fish. You may luck out once or twice without QT, but in the long run QT is necessary for fish. It is infectious diseases in tightly confined space; just one slip and all fish in a tank would be in peril.

Why do you think QT is expensive? QT doesn't take a lot of money, some but not disproportionately expensive. For me, the big expense is the UV in a QT, but one should have one anyway if fish is the main interest. Otherwise, just a tank, a heater, and a HOB power filter, a few pots or pipe segments for hidding. Some panty hose and fluffy polyester as filtration medium.

[Playa-1]

I doesn't need to be expensive at all dude. Your making this too hard. It can be a 5 gallon bucket with a 5$ sponge filter and a heater. A used 10 gallon system on craigslist with a $5 sponge filter and a $20 heater that will probably be included in with the 10 gallon tank. A lost leader from petco or the like, 10 gal fish tank cheapo. It doesn't have to stay up and running. It can just run to treat and or introduce livestock to your tank.

Get a QT !!! :(

By the way. Have you cleaned your glasses??
All those white specs you see could just be salt spray on your glasses.

[Playa-1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11100954#post11100954 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Your calcium should be 420.
Ph is ok.
Alk should be about 8.3.

You can use a white polystyrene bucket from the paint dept at Lowe's hardware to serve as a qt. No sand, no rock in there. Use a small corner filter with blue-white filter medium that has NO carbon in it! [Carbon would remove the medicine as fast as you put it in.]
Control the temp to a precise 80 degrees. No light necessary.
Does the mandarin eat any frozen or pellet food? If so you may save him: if not, I'm afraid he will starve in qt. THey normally eat only copepods, which will not exist in that tank.
Medicate for ich: follow the directions precisely. And measure the amount of water in that bucket, to calculate your medicine dose exactly. Math matters, here. Mark that water level in black ink on the outside of the bucket and keep the water level exactly there: add ro/di water to keep it so. Treat only the fish, not the invertebrates.
Improve the water in your main tank to save your corals.
Do you have a skimmer? A sump? A reactor?

You are indeed on the verge of losing things. Your way out is to do precise math, precise chemistry, and keep it rock solid.
ph 7.9-8.3
alk 8.3-9.3
cal 420
salinity 1.025
temp 80
no nitrate, ammonia, or nitrite.
Good luck to you.



Good Advise... You should take it.
Also get yourself a good ReefKeeping book or two and read them. You will enjoy this hobby a lot more that way.

[jefnalyssa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11100538#post11100538 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SpinningHat
Sounds like Ich. If you dose with copper in the display, say bye-bye corals and most likely inverts. You need to get something to be able to QT those fish. If you don't there's a good chance you could dose with copper, and save the fish, but then your coral investment is gone.

I've had freshwater a long time, and I've been lurking here for a couple months, and I'm still nervous about taking the marine plunge.. Patience is key.. You need to act now to save that livestock!

Go for it!! Your already on the right track. (Patience and research)
When I started I used to ride my bike to the lfs, And the internet wasnt even thought of. Your so far ahead of the game. Most people just go the lfs store and waste alot of money buying everything they tell you you'll nedd. Then go home and try to figure it out.

[ROB2005]

Do you use a heater in the tank? From my experience, the ich resulted from temperature swings in the tank.

[wizzbane15]

your coral are not liking the low alk. you need to get that up. Also, your salinity is to high as well. The key to successful reefkeeping is stability. A lot of non-normal parameters can become ok if they are kept steady. fluctuations are compounding problem when you have fluctuations in parameters that are already just so-so.

if you need a QT, just get a small 5 or 10 gal tank from a local petstore, a small heater and a hang on filter--> instant QT in a pinch.

[Nanz]

I agree with the QT.. You need to treat your fish. I would use the hypo-salinty method.

From what I have gathered in this hobby you need to maintain: Ca, Alk and Mg without having Temp, pH and Salinity change. Its difficult to do at times and requires slow dosing. It is very critical that you try to keep Temp, pH and salinity stable. Ca, Alk and Mg are going to change and its your responsibility to suppliment them with dosing and water changes.

I dont dose any trace elements because I let the weekly 10% water change suppliment them. Its very easy to overdose trace elements and you should NEVER dose anything you have not tested for first.

Never add fish to a tank without first placing them in a QT tank. All it takes is one bad apple to ruin the rest. A saltwater tank is like a card castle. you have to be absolutely sure that what you add will not cause the system to crash. Everytime you add a fish or coral you need time for your system to adjust to the waste they produce and/or nutrients they will absorb.

The wisest thing I learned from this hobby is to have patience.

Good Luck and Happy Reefing :)

[jackfrost]

I think this poor man has been "whipped" enough.

The sad case, is that he was missled by an LFS, overstocked and now is totally lost.

I still would like to offer that you contact a local reef or marine group in your area.

Someone local that could come out and look at your tank first hand and help you.

They may even be able to lend you a tank for QT.

Please act fast, because it is very likely that you will loose all living organisms in your tank, and that is a shame.

[cd77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11100803#post11100803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vinnie71975
I would also take out about 4 inches of the sand DSB can be a serious hazard for an inexperienced reefer who doesn't know what the signs of it going south are. Just my 2 cents.
I respectfully disagree, Vinnie. Removing sand seems premature to me and unnecessary for this two month old tank. Provided the DSB was set up properly, and the OP has done some research, there shouldn't be any concern here for some time. I don't see any reason why a new reefer can't start with a DSB.

Realest - On the same topic (though not really relating to the real issue at hand here -- lack of QT) -- your Goby may not be compatible with your DSB, and you might even want to consider adding some more snails. Nine snails isn't much for a 55.

As far as the ich goes, if you're unable to setup a QT as recommended by the previous posters, I'm positive there is someone in San Fran area that can help you. For starters, try asking for help here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=298).

Don't give up, realest!

[Giga]

no offence but I kinda like reading thread about people who don't listen and shoot themselves in the foot, I'm in the process of setting up my own tank and have been doing a lot of research. I'm let my tank for 3 months with LR and LS before I even put anything in(25gallon tank X2). These kind of thread should be recorded for training purposes. My advice is removing all your fish,selling them or something or letting a person who can take care of them for a while. Then I would get the the chemistry part down and let the tank establish. then start with 1 fish and take it VERY SLOW, this hobby is for the very patient and people that have $$(for the best equipment anyway) Best of luck

[gjm258]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11100436#post11100436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by realest
Ok, I have already got plenty of slaps from the other thread in regards of having too many fishes/corals too fast.


good

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11100436#post11100436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by realest

My current left over live stock is: (1) Nemo, (1) Mandarin Goby, (1) Scooter Blenny, (1) Demsel, (2) Cleaner Shrimp, (2)Emerald Crab, (4) Mexican Turbo Snail, (5) Regular Snails, (4) Blue Leg Hermit Crab, (5) Regular Hermit Crab.

As far as corals goes: (1) Lobophilia, (1) Neon Frog spwan, (1) Duncan, (1) Clove, (1) Yellow Polyps, (1) Gonipora, (1) Maximus Clam, (1) Star Polyps, (1) Dandaphilia.


the mandarin is pretty much dead already, even if you put it in a bucket with some medicine it's still going to starve to death. get rid of the scooter blenny, the lobo, duncan, gonipora, clam and dendro.
if a lfs won't buy them back, sell them to someone in a local reef club asap.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11100436#post11100436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by realest

I have checked my water and here is the result:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Alkalinity - 175
PH - 8.2
Calcium - 390
Phosphate - 0
Granity - 1.026
Salinity - 35ppt
Temp - 79.5 F


GOOD! keep testing.

once you have gotten rid of the other animals that are going to die (listed above) you should be on track for having a successful tank. you already have the hard part under your belt, you've learned the hard way to ask questions and figure out the care required before you buy new animals.