Hong Kong aquarium shops

[spleen93]

Just got back from a trip to China/Hong Kong. While in Hong Kong, one of our relatives took us to a street filled with aquarium shops. I literally only had 10 minutes to look around and I ended up running from shop to shop taking pictures. So I apologize if some of these tanks are not the best - they were what caught my eye on the spot. Next time I go there, I'll need to devote half a day or so to the area. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4959.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4960.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4961.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4968.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4969.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4974.jpg

(to be continued)

[spleen93]

(continued)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4966.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4972.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4970.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4971.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4967.jpg

(to be continued)

[spleen93]

(continued)

and just for fun, some plant tanks:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4965.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4973.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4964.jpg

Hope it was an interesting glimpse of aquarium shops from the other side of the world. Don't forget the prices that you're seeing are Hong Kong dollars - to get the US equivalent, divide the price by 7.75.

Spleen

[corbett_n]

I didn't see anything too different form what we have

[hermitage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10989596#post10989596 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by corbett_n
I didn't see anything too different form what we have

Yeah..except all the livestock east of the mississippi is packed under one roof.

[Ewan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10989749#post10989749 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hermitage
Yeah..except all the livestock east of the mississippi is packed under one roof.
:lol:

Nice pics. must have been overwhelming to have 10 minutes to run around!

[AMIFL]

Man that store in the first pictures was stocked solid with fish.

[SSalty]

Those are some nice coral tanks.

Thanks for sharing.

[nemofish2217]

all of those poor moorish idols...i feel so bad for them....

[jwccwj]

Good job spleen93,interesting photos!!

[chujai]

thats awsome, when i went back to HK last year, i wasnt into the aquarium thing yet but i cant wait to go back

damn stuffs cheap compaired to here.. too bad i cant just buy a bunch of stuff and bring it back expecting it will be alive still...

did you get a chance to check out pricing on dry goods?

[agoutihead]

But that 4th picture down.... is that an entire tank full of coco worms?!?!?!?

If so that is ridiculous!!!


Post edited. How about we keep these kind of comments out of this.~dc

[spleen93]

I had barely enough time to look at the fish, much less the dry goods. So, sorry, no idea about pricing. Didn't even get a chance to see what kind of lighting that they were using.

Yes, that's a tank full of coco worms. I thought that was crazy too - "on special for $13". Felt bad about the moorish idols too. It's a pretty nice elegance in the 6th photo down. Most of these display/selling tanks looked to be running higher nutrient levels than we run - much more macroalgae in the displays, a lot less coralline. Not sure how much of that is a difference in husbandry technique versus interest (more interest in LPS, macros, and fish compared to SPS).

Spleen

[reefergeorge]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10990401#post10990401 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nemofish2217
all of those poor moorish idols...i feel so bad for them....

What about the 20 clown triggers in a 20 gallon tank?

[jmgpr7]

really nice shops , in what part of hon kong was this ???

[Justin James]

Oh, c'mon there is lots of room left in thouse tanks for more fish. ;) (Joke).

Thanks for the photos. Were thouse tanks all acrylic? They looked acrylic to me.

[spleen93]

This is in Kowloon. She actually called it "Fish Street" but we assume that there's a more formal Chinese name for it (I'll have to ask her for it).

I didn't actually touch any of the tanks to find out what material they were made out of but I had the impression that they were glass. Of course, it could be a mix too - some tanks out of glass and some out of acrylic. Most of those holding tanks up there are eurobraced glass (can tell from the green/blue hue to the edges) but not sure about the display ones.

Spleen

[dp reefer]

Looks like the fish are packed into those tanks as tightly as the people are packed into that city

[thor32766]

yeah i cant believe how many fish are in some of those tanks!

[risika67]

They are all bare-bottom tanks...

Poor fish stuck in those small tanks!!

[uscharalph]

Thanks for sharing!

[audio101]

Ugly looking reef tanks.

[Rickyrooz1]

Wow! The tanks are heavily stocked with fish.

[chrisalmand]

POOR FISH:(

[cthetoy]

Prices are cheap though. $10 US Dollars for Moorish Idols and $20 for a Clown Trigger

[reeferaddiction]

yeah the prices are cheap because they buy in bulk obviously[joke] not only that they are so stressed out none of them probably survive more than a few days in a customers tanks so they have to buy 3 or 4 and pray one lives. or maybe iy was actually a fish market

[cthetoy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11002021#post11002021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reeferaddiction
yeah the prices are cheap because they buy in bulk obviously[joke] not only that they are so stressed out none of them probably survive more than a few days in a customers tanks so they have to buy 3 or 4 and pray one lives. or maybe iy was actually a fish market

I was in Hong kong a few time and most of their fish are healthy. Actually most of their live stock are healthier than the best LFS nearby. No ich, fungus, etc. The reason why is because of the short distance the fish has to fly which are direct from the collectors. Alot less stress that way. Theres no wholesalers in the middle. Its like an hour or 2 plane ride for the fish.
Look at the Moorish Idol's streamer. Most of them are long. Ive never seen a Moorish Idol's streamer that long in any LFS or wholesalers because most of them gets ripped from shipping or handling.
Most of the fish there don't sit in the tanks very long to get stressed. They get bought pretty quickly thus the high turnover rate.

[hawaiianwargod]

Spleen,

Glad I found this thread! Looks like you had so much fun during your trip....Very nice pics btw!

[old salty]

Nice pics. I have seen pics from this very same store; the guy is good friends with the owner.

[chujai]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11002229#post11002229 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cthetoy
I was in Hong kong a few time and most of their fish are healthy. Actually most of their live stock are healthier than the best LFS nearby. No ich, fungus, etc. The reason why is because of the short distance the fish has to fly which are direct from the collectors. Alot less stress that way. Theres no wholesalers in the middle. Its like an hour or 2 plane ride for the fish.
Look at the Moorish Idol's streamer. Most of them are long. Ive never seen a Moorish Idol's streamer that long in any LFS or wholesalers because most of them gets ripped from shipping or handling.
Most of the fish there don't sit in the tanks very long to get stressed. They get bought pretty quickly thus the high turnover rate.

thats exactly what i was thinking, for us to get most of the fishes, they have to fly like, 20 hours sometimes just to get to LFS, where as they probably take few hours to get to the stores...

i would think the turn over would be pretty quick on the fishes as well cause they are so cheap... although i do think the husbandry in general might not be as crazy as we are used to here.... oh well whatever works.

[sea-horsea]

many of you probably don't know but the reason they are so cheap is because those fish are consider "local" to them...they don't have to buy expensive airplane tickets flying all the way across the pacific and end up in our stores...a friend of mine from taiwan said they used to "collect" from the tidepools when he was younger.....he also told me a 12" emperor angel was selling for $40 at a LFS...

man I should move there and stock my own tank by hand pick from the beach..that would be nice...:P

[Joe LoPresti]

Those were some pretty amazing (yet sad) pics. Seeing pics of those butterfly fish crammed into those small tanks just breaks my heart. They are some of the most striking fish in the ocean and that is where they need to stay.
In particular, seeing pics of the Chaetodon Austriacus (Exquisite Butterfly) and that little tank full of Chaetodon Meyeri (Meyer's Butterfly). Look them up if you get the chance, they are two beautiful fish but they feed exclusively on coral polyps and do not fair well in capitivity.
I will say though that it is interesting to see all the tanks and how fish stores operate in another country. Thanks for sharing all those photos with us!!!

[Savas]

Anyone know how much stuff dies coming to the US from the Pacific. I am sure mortality rates are higher than we think. I did taxes for a lfs and the owner stated the difference between profit and loss was totally based on his mortality rate - which was under 2%.

[Savas]

Anyone know how much stuff dies coming to the US from the Pacific. I am sure mortality rates are higher than we think. I did taxes for a lfs and the owner stated the difference between profit and loss was totally based on his mortality rate - which was under 2%.

[TheMcs]

To everyone getting in a huff about how the fish are packed in;

That's how every single wholesale fish facility I've ever been to looks. From online livestock retailers to the distributor your LFS buys from, most are going to be packed like that. Makes catching fish & filling orders much easier. Plus they're usually only there a few days. Not defending the practice, just shedding some light.

[plancton]

I honestly don't blame them. Plus the fish look healthy and I bet they sell fast.

Can someone explain me what happens when you have to many cocoworms?, do they kill each other or what?

[Flint&Eric]

what do you think the places your fish come from look like?

[TriniStylez]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10989575#post10989575 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spleen93
(continued)



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/spleen93/Fish/hong%20kong/DSC_4970.jpg


(to be continued)


To me, this is absolutely sickening...

Looks like a bulk section of a grocery, only these poor guys are suppose to end up as "pets"...Although I guess there are other types of pets they eat over there, so who knows...

[5iron]

next time, ask someone who know around fish street bring you to the "up stair" fish store in fish street. they have the best SPS and much nicer coral in hk.

[cthetoy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11007438#post11007438 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TriniStylez
To me, this is absolutely sickening...

Looks like a bulk section of a grocery, only these poor guys are suppose to end up as "pets"...Although I guess there are other types of pets they eat over there, so who knows...

There are no other pets they eat there. Remember this is Hong Kong which was part of Britain a few years back so its a very modern city. You should visit Hong Kong if you never had a chance. Most of the people speak English there and all the street signs are in English and yes with English names.

I go to Petco and I see 50 birds in a 3x3 glass cage. I count at least 500 feeder goldfish in the 40g tank. My local market has live lobsters filled to the brim where they cant swim anymore. A local pet shop at a high end mall has dogs locked in small 3x2 glass cage. Don't forget about our milk producing cows and egg laying chickens. I think they suffer far worse then fishes in the HK aquarium shops

[glaudds]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11007438#post11007438 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TriniStylez
To me, this is absolutely sickening...

Although I guess there are other types of pets they eat over there, so who knows...

cthetoy's post is right on.....do not comment if you have never been there.

The LFS in HK seemed to be much more well kept as a whole compared to some of the LFS I see in my area. The livestock seems very healthy and stores are clean and well staffed.

[zach0660]

I didn't see any tangs.

[hermitage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10992343#post10992343 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by agoutihead
I agree, this was an ignorant post~dc.

Ignorant! I'm Chinese. You owe much of your lifestyle to the Chinese....and you don't even know it.

[Macimage]

Thanks for sharing your photos.

Joyce

[glaudds]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11009212#post11009212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zach0660
I didn't see any tangs.

lol....here's some images from my trip this year. Hope the OP doesn't mind if I add to his thread...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/GLAUDDS/china/casiochina287.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/GLAUDDS/china/casiochina291.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/GLAUDDS/china/casiochina295.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/GLAUDDS/china/casiochina281.jpg

[Alaska_Phil]

Awesome photos. Wow, a whole street full of fish stores. I thought I was in fat city having two LFS (only one with salt though) and a Petco.

I'm not going to comment on the conditions, except that Personally I don't see anything different from my LFS's after a recent shipment is recieved.

People call me cruel for keeping my dog in a 6'x10' kennel. I call them cruel for letting their dog run loose to be hit by a car or attacked by other dogs...

Phil

[TriniStylez]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11008280#post11008280 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glaudds
cthetoy's post is right on.....do not comment if you have never been there.

The LFS in HK seemed to be much more well kept as a whole compared to some of the LFS I see in my area. The livestock seems very healthy and stores are clean and well staffed.

Well maybe you should ASK if I have been there or not...You just may have found out that, yes I have! It was about 6 years ago, before I was into fishkeeping, so I did not go to any fish shops but as for my last comment, I was there and many other parts of china for about 3 weeks and what I said was very true.

[fisheebill]

Great pics!
I love to see pics from outside the US.
Thanks spleen93

[asherah]

what the heck are you talking about putting cats in glass boxes?

Go to a pet store.. all the cats are in glass boxes.. dogs to. ? Did imiss something..

[HBtank]

lol, I am in bizarro world.

it is as if no one here has ever been to Petco, petsmart or the LFS after a shipment. Or just a big LFS period.

It is as if people want to see a problem.

I saw some beautiful healthy fish and VERY clean tanks in those photos, and a aquarist loving culture that supports the turnover of livestock to keep it that way.

[HBtank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11007438#post11007438 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TriniStylez
To me, this is absolutely sickening...

Looks like a bulk section of a grocery, only these poor guys are suppose to end up as "pets"...Although I guess there are other types of pets they eat over there, so who knows...

Next time you eat a burger remember that you are eating another cultures "pet"...:rolleyes:

Seriously..

[sick1166]

im a wholesaler all collecting stations i buy from hati sri lanka africa hawaii wish they had those clean conditions and cram alot more fish than that in their tanks. japan china taiwan buy very large quanaties every week we cant supply enough caribbean fish weekly for them alone those are real life pics. any wholsale operation are select if any pics on their sites are for you too see they and look like a large selection, the truth is they are crammed to the gills with fish, our us facilities would make you cry at the real quanity of fish they hold to make money is to move a lot of fish, no diffrent than overseas pics your seeing bye they way im overseas 3 times a year to our customers and have yrt to see dogs and cats in glass cages same as petland petco or they are cages with a glass front to see

[sick1166]

im a wholesaler all collecting stations i buy from hati sri lanka africa hawaii wish they had those clean conditions and cram alot more fish than that in their tanks. japan china taiwan buy very large quanaties every week we cant supply enough caribbean fish weekly for them alone those are real life pics. any wholsale operation are select if any pics on their sites are for you too see they and look like a large selection, the truth is they are crammed to the gills with fish, our us facilities would make you cry at the real quanity of fish they hold to make money is to move a lot of fish, no diffrent than overseas pics your seeing bye they way im overseas 3 times a year to our customers and have yrt to see dogs and cats in glass cages same as petland petco or they are cages with a glass front to see

[cthetoy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11010551#post11010551 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TriniStylez
Well maybe you should ASK if I have been there or not...You just may have found out that, yes I have! It was about 6 years ago, before I was into fishkeeping, so I did not go to any fish shops but as for my last comment, I was there and many other parts of china for about 3 weeks and what I said was very true.

Other parts of China are much different than Hong Kong while you mentioned HK specifically. HK and China still have seperate different governments. To answer your comment you made in your earlier post dog meat for consumption is illegal in Hong Kong. Yes its legal in China but it's not as popular as you think.

I too don't like to see overcrowded fish but from a business standpoint there's no other choice.

[::PixelFish::]

People are nuts if they think those fish are kept in bad conditions.

Do you guys think that every fish caught for our consumption is placed in a 50 gallon aquarium and shipped in bubble wrap here to the US?

We would be so lucky to recieve healthy fish that spend minimum time in crowded tanks but instead the fish we get here are shipped from collection points to wholesalers, from wholesalers to LFS's where a good portion of them end up in ich infested tanks in Petco's only to die.

Calling the Chinese barbaric because they keep fish in crowded tanks for a short period of time is very ignorant. We here in the US are responsible for far more deaths of fish and corals that need to be to be shipped a great distance and often times re-shipped when we purchase animals online.

[spleen93]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11007498#post11007498 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 5iron
next time, ask someone who know around fish street bring you to the "up stair" fish store in fish street. they have the best SPS and much nicer coral in hk.

All right, an inside scoop! Thanks, I was wondering if there was more SPS than I had seen. Next time I'm back in HK, I'll have to ask. ;) :thumbsup:

I guess my personal take on the crowding was that the turnover was very high - so yes, I didn't expect that the fish would be in those conditions for very long. I am more concerned about the fish that are not known to do well in captivity - the Moorish Idols, the corallivore butterflys ... that part bothers me but unfortunately, it's a fact of life in the aquarium industry.

Having said that, the stores did look very clean. I happened to stumble across a regular pet store in a mall in Whampoa (area of Hong Kong) on my last day and I have to say that the display area for the cats/dogs was better than a lot of pet stores that I see in the States (that may be damning with faint praise :D) - a lot bigger with a hidden area in the back where the animals could retreat to at will.

Spleen

[H.a.Z]

This is not so bad if you compare to the turtle streets in other citys like Canton.

[db_triggerfish]

spleen93, thanks for posting i will not pass judgement until i walked in their shoes. I eat fish, chicken, deer, baby pig = baby back ribs, and veal so how can i pass judement. Again thanks for posting i also i love to see how aqurium stores are around the world.

[OnoIgotICH]

Im sorry but for the people who are calling this fish store ignorant and such is very wrong. You have not seen the fish store just pictures of overcrowded fish, Our fish stores here in America dont cram 20 fishes in a 20 gallon tank, but they still die from ich and other diseases and you call the Chinese aquarium shop ignorant? Im pretty sure with that many fish they bring in the turnover of how much fish they sell is alot. The tanks are clean, the fish are thriving. I've been to wholesale places in America alot worse then that. They've been able to fit a 15 inch pinktail trigger in a 40 gallon. Hey but it'll be sold quick, right? The chinese way maybe differnt then us, There is a shop where I live run by vietnamesse, they are able to work wonders with their mixed chemicals. There is more to this hobby than your regular filtering materials such as a protein skimmer or an ozonizer or a UV light. Its amazing how you are able to trash them for that, when you cant take a step back and look at yourselves.

[OnoIgotICH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11009930#post11009930 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glaudds
lol....here's some images from my trip this year. Hope the OP doesn't mind if I add to his thread...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/GLAUDDS/china/casiochina287.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/GLAUDDS/china/casiochina291.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/GLAUDDS/china/casiochina295.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/GLAUDDS/china/casiochina281.jpg

Wow the elegance looks very nice, and fish bags on the rack, crazy!

In Vietnam I've seen pictures of transportable aquariums where if its slow in one area, they just move their cart and camp somewhere else.

[glaudds]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11015699#post11015699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OnoIgotICH
Wow the elegance looks very nice, and fish bags on the rack, crazy!


Those are anemones!:eek2: :eek1:
Those are the largest ones I've ever seen in a LFS.!

[dc]

[flamealert]

[spleen93]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11015462#post11015462 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by db_triggerfish
I eat fish, chicken, deer, baby pig = baby back ribs, and veal so how can i pass judement.

Actually, AFAIK, baby back ribs don't actually come from baby pigs - they're just the short end of the rib cage of an adult hog. So you're all good, man. :thumbsup: :D

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=446384

I agree, those are huge anemones! Macrodactyla? (not so good with the anemone IDs)

Spleen

[N Awe]

I am getting ready to go to Canton (Guangzhou) and Hong Kong in a couple of weeks. I am very excited to see this in person. I understand there are two big fish markets (streets) in Hong Kong. The Fish Market in Kowloon and Aquarium Plaza near the end of Tai Koo MTR station. Any suggestions on what I should not miss?

[flyhigh123]

last time i was in HK, i had a 3 pound parrot fish for dinner... it was delicious...

[Pmolan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11015665#post11015665 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OnoIgotICH
Our fish stores here in America dont cram 20 fishes in a 20 gallon tank,

Visit a marine wholesaler in the US, not as bad as in these pics but damn close.

[jewtball]

i been to fish wholesalers in NJ, NY and they are much worse. a large amount of fish dont even get to make it to the bagging table and they are already dead. its amazing they have the capability to be able to sell such high quantities of fish in Asia.

i been to the "fish street" in HK and the fish street in Guangzhou. Guangzhou is HUGE, at least 100+ aquarium stores and every one of them are full to the brim stocked with SW fish, Corals, tanks, equipment and everything else. theres like an army of customers marching in and out buying fish and supplies. i was shocked in how available everything is, its like everything you want just right there waiting for you to buy it. once i "acclimated" to the environment, i LOVED the experience. i also learned alot since there systems are generally more natural and simple compared to the way we do it here.

[kydsexy]

ive visited hong kong a number of times and have been on "fish street" my brother is in the navy. if you spend a week in these stores you would be HIGHLY IMPRESSED with the amount of fish that are sold and the attention that theyre given while in the tanks. HK was absolutely insane with fish husbandry. have any of you seen a tropical aquarium mag lately? the tanks represented in the magazine speak for alot of homes. its like a must have for homes! beautiful city. and as far as the pets for food, i like HBtanks post at the top of page 3! smart person! buy yourself a plane ticket and visit before you make comments

[fishyz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11052073#post11052073 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jewtball
theres like an army of customers marching in and out buying fish

Sure it's ok to keep the fish in a small tank for a few short days, but who knows how educated the people who are buying these fish are about their minimum tanks sizes, and special requirements. The fish might end up right back in a small tank, filled to the rim with fish. Did anyone talk to any of the people who were working in the stores? I'd be interested to know what they tell people to convince them buy their fish.

[clekchau]

speaking of eating dogs
[chimp]

I'd advise against doing that again.

[OnoIgotICH]

wow shut the hell up. you guys are judging by just pictures but yet you have never been there. Speaking of eating dogs? You couldnt be more than a racist ***hole

[Serioussnaps]

These pics INFLAME me. Nothing says Chinese, like chock a bunch of stuff in small area and sell it for cheap...not to mention the dogs but I wont go there! What you are looking at is a cultural revolution that one day our culture(most westerners) will clash with so for all you folks that think this is cool you have alot of waking up to do.

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11056547#post11056547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OnoIgotICH
wow shut the hell up. you guys are judging by just pictures but yet you have never been there. Speaking of eating dogs? You couldnt be more than a racist ***hole


Now you are judging him......and FWIW i have been there. Talk about social and economic stratification...you will find it there. Mods better close this down before it gets ugly.

[jewtball]

wow i can definitely dig up a few pics that can easily show how cruel or culturally different the "west" can be but i think if you count how many PEOPLE the "WEST have killed compared to how many people the chinese have killed that can show much worse. in the last century how many wars have the US and the western nations have started? how many invasions of foreign countries and many innocent civilians are killed?

just cause you dont see the killing doesnt mean it isnt there. i have been to China, Korea, and most of the Asian countries and i can say that though some information is witheld, in general the information is much better spread out than here in the US. just look at the Bush administration. everything is so covered up and the public dont know its there.

every culture has its own negatives and positives. dont go judging other cultures when there is so much judging that needs to be done to your own.

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11056702#post11056702 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jewtball
wow i can definitely dig up a few pics that can easily show how cruel or culturally different the "west" can be but i think if you count how many PEOPLE the "WEST have killed compared to how many people the chinese have killed that can show much worse. in the last century how many wars have the US and the western nations have started? how many invasions of foreign countries and many innocent civilians are killed?

just cause you dont see the killing doesnt mean it isnt there. i have been to China, Korea, and most of the Asian countries and i can say that though some information is witheld, in general the information is much better spread out than here in the US. just look at the Bush administration. everything is so covered up and the public dont know its there.

every culture has its own negatives and positives. dont go judging other cultures when there is so much judging that needs to be done to your own.

I judge my own.....greatly. And I didn't vote for that idiot so don't push him off on me! Anyways I appreciate the pics, however, I was just mentioning how representative that fish store is of their economy, culture and ideals. You can't argue with that cuz you know its true.

I am not going to say anything about the dog pics as that was just unneccessary.

[Anemone]

done.