Is this GBTA a goner?

[perseus]

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/40000000beb4f71/1/24/46XbMr4V4T_H-l6e3-86HSTx9GkT_Wkh.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/mmLxJ03_5z-cFg3kE3EfDf4sNH5cNeA9?referrer=hlnk)

I have a 90 bowfront that I setup in mid April. The last water change was approx 3 1/2 weeks ago and I also changed the carbon in my fluidize reactor. I have two Ocellaris hosted in the GBTA. I added the 2nd Ocellaris and GBTA a little over a month ago and everything was fine. My SPS are growing and everything else in the tank seems to be doing fine.

I feed the tank once daily mysis shrimp and about 3x per week cyclopeeze.

I have 2 sea stars, 2 sea cucbumbers, a few snails, a yellowhead jawfish, tomini tang, tank bred Springeri pseudochromis, lawnmower blenny, and a pincushion urchin.

All of my water parameters seem good and I keep the water temp between 77.8 and 79.2. I have a protein skimmer rated for a 120 and am also using phosphorous in another fluidize reactor.

I have two Koralia rated at 1200gph each.

Any help is appreciated!

[perseus]

I'm waiting on my RODI to produce enough water for a 20% change. Meanwhile, I've given the GBTA more light and warmed the tank up to 79.9 degrees. It seems to be recovering as it is constricting its mouth and looking healthier for now.

This was coming out of its mouth, but it was pulled back in:
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/40000000bec69e7/1/100/Om5xwye61T8RI_76zDBij_lJHghgkZWH.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/blwQnhMy3D8L2KBYown9md1jvhkIhp5y?referrer=hlnk)

Looking a bit better:
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/40000000bec6aba/1/96/XDD0E1_0zD_bECMrGFadWp9eRI0wjdMY.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/Au1sYb_c3j9DeF6yEl8Yi3PLHnudbjUE?referrer=hlnk)
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/40000000bec6add/1/75/sOdT_6nLvj_AsrbKRTZIiqEz3HiJKyFQ.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/X_Fft-Xn7T8_8fUzMoZIKGbPtS7BoxDC?referrer=hlnk)

[han012]

the second set of pics look alot better than the first one

i wonder why its sticking to the glass wall instead of finding a knook in the rocks.

since you have sps corals & they're growing, i'm sure your water's fine. have you been feeding it? i've read that anemones w/ short tentacles means that its been ingesting itself since its not getting enough food from the lights.

[perseus]

It is actually stick to the back plastic where the overflow is. I've been feeding the tank and some of the food to it, but I think that it didn't get enough. It had fairly long tentacles about two days ago and are still long when they inflate.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10519015#post10519015 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by han012
the second set of pics look alot better than the first one

i wonder why its sticking to the glass wall instead of finding a knook in the rocks.

since you have sps corals & they're growing, i'm sure your water's fine. have you been feeding it? i've read that anemones w/ short tentacles means that its been ingesting itself since its not getting enough food from the lights.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Anemones routinely deflate. I wouldn't change anything just yet.

[perseus]

I've watched him deflate before for a few hours at most. This started yesterday and continued through today. I'm hoping he may get better tonight after the water change.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10519095#post10519095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
Anemones routinely deflate. I wouldn't change anything just yet.

[pbukow]

You could always try feeding it different kinds of seafood like shrimp, clams, squid, etc from your grocery store for more vitamin/nutrients. Mine loves shrimp, scallops, and clam pieces soaked in vitamins.

[perseus]

I bought some shrimp and cut them up into pieces, but I can't get it to catch hold and eat anything. :(

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10519015#post10519015 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by han012
since you have sps corals & they're growing, i'm sure your water's fine.

Nope...not necessarily. I have had an anemone die on me due to the water I was using in the same tank with growing sps. Anemones are more sensitive to water quality than sps.

[perseus]

Well, here it is this morning.

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/40000000beeed9d/1/117/S-7TwXoi6T-VaXvOP__Rxr9CRWm9Eyjl.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/XNT62VXizT_mA_f4N3yhonaJGtXJ9Nj5?referrer=hlnk)

[timrandlerv10]

hey, at least he's still stuck to the side!

that HAS to be a good sign!!!

(good luck)

[perseus]

I appreciate all the help so far. Even if he doesn't make it, hopefully this helps someone. I finished the water change about an hour ago and added some Seachem vitamins to the water.

These pictures were taken approximately 5 minutes apart. As you can see, it is rapidly losing its grip.

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/40000000bef8064/1/45/F8YNqVW46D9UqYklaCD8RYj_ZeEtHYgx.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/AqbK3xIJ3j_6ooH1z-bDNl5M8SkYKVCG?referrer=hlnk)
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/40000000bef8285/1/120/g0DUUizI5D_f0D4JGBt-9nn47LF7XVq2.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/_ARPjTPY5j_pXaCIlTifOy4caBvUq2pr?referrer=hlnk)
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/40000000bef82f3/1/105/fvJPWmvE4z9rzy_tzoSWcgpmBlWjd_s7.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/C-0VUG1e7z_q3VOr9ugz7pMPfuUBvjby?referrer=hlnk)

The thing I don't get is that it isn't deteriorating at all. Should I remove it from the water once it falls?

[55semireef]

Something in the water is definately bothering it. Are you running carbon?

[perseus]

Yeah, I recently changed to Seachem Matrix carbon. I had just changed it with the last water change 3 1/2 weeks ago.

[timrandlerv10]

i can't give you a source for this, but i remember somebody saying that carbon may very rapidly lose its sequestering ability in high concentration environments, and may even leach stuff back into the water if it was used in high concentration (sequestered a bunch) and then stayed there in low concentration (the stuff went away, so now it comes back in a fashion reminiscent of osmosis).

you are also only changing water monthly?

just a thought--wait for confirmation maybe--that some small (5? 10?) water changes would help, as well as new carbon.

good luck!

tim

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10519255#post10519255 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pbukow
You could always try feeding it different kinds of seafood like shrimp, clams, squid, etc from your grocery store for more vitamin/nutrients. Mine loves shrimp, scallops, and clam pieces soaked in vitamins.

While feeding the anemone is a very good idea, buying the food from the grocery store is a very bad idea. They add preservatives to our food, like phosphates, that may not be good for our animals.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Hogwash. I've always fed my anemones fresh seafood from the grocery store.
It's also my experience that anemones can fare very well in water conditions that stunt coral growth (ie: high phosphates and nitrates).
What lighting is on this aquarium?
I agree with it's owner that it may have been fed too little too late. Anemones are slow to show warning signs of being in trouble. If it starts to fall apart it's time to remove it.

[timrandlerv10]

hmm...not hogwash. depends on what you buy...let me clarify those two statements (pre-apologies if put words in your mouths)...

i go to the korean store, because i can get fresh frozen seafood MIX without any preservatives. you can go to your store and get fresh and fresh frozen from the seafood counter (in most cases).

if either of us go to the frozen food aisle, we are likely to buy a stouffer's mix of shrimp, clams, phosphate and red dye no. 5.

does that make sense? are both sides ok with that description? i think we may have left off a few words and hopefully didnt hurt perseus' chances or thread.

HEY PERS...does he look slimey or full of mucous? when he does, you have to pull him out and sniff it. if he stinks, he doesnt go back in the water.

i hope it doesnt come to that...

good luck...

[Iguana79]

That BTA is a beauty! I hope he makes it.

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10528444#post10528444 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by timrandlerv10
i go to the korean store, because i can get fresh frozen seafood MIX without any preservatives. you can go to your store and get fresh and fresh frozen from the seafood counter (in most cases).

if either of us go to the frozen food aisle, we are likely to buy a stouffer's mix of shrimp, clams, phosphate and red dye no. 5.

does that make sense?
The point is it's what you buy that's important- not where you buy it.

Grocery stores (and LFS's) usually offer a lot of poor food choices right alongside the good stuff.

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10527003#post10527003 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
Hogwash. I've always fed my anemones fresh seafood from the grocery store.
It's also my experience that anemones can fare very well in water conditions that stunt coral growth (ie: high phosphates and nitrates).
What lighting is on this aquarium?
I agree with it's owner that it may have been fed too little too late. Anemones are slow to show warning signs of being in trouble. If it starts to fall apart it's time to remove it.

In the "fresh" seafood section of your local grocery store, if you ask for half a pound of shrimp, they will wrap it up and place a little white sticker on it. The little white sticker has a warning on it that says it may contain phosphates as a preservative. (at least in Florida) I was having problems with my Elegance corals and LTA discharging their food before it was fully digested. I tested my aquarium water for phosphate and it was not detectable. I poured this test water over a piece of shrimp from the grocery store and it turned a dark purple on contact. I stopped using grocery store food and my animals stopped discharging their food prematurely. You don't have to take my word for it. You can test this for yourself.

While my apstaisa (spelling?) don't seem to mind high nitrates or phosphates, I believe this, "anemones can fare very well in water conditions that stunt coral growth (ie: high phosphates and nitrates). "is an example of very poor advice. If you allow nitrates and phosphates to climb in a tank with H. Mag or many other host anemones there will be problems.

My apologies to Perseus. I didn't plan on your thread getting off topic. I just didn't want you to add to the stress of your anemone by feeding it phosphate laden seafood. I hope you can find a way to turn things around for your anemone. Good Luck.

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10529123#post10529123 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
In the "fresh" seafood section of your local grocery store, if you ask for half a pound of shrimp, they will wrap it up and place a little white sticker on it. The little white sticker has a warning on it that says it may contain phosphates as a preservative. (at least in Florida) I was having problems with my Elegance corals and LTA discharging their food before it was fully digested. I tested my aquarium water for phosphate and it was not detectable. I poured this test water over a piece of shrimp from the grocery store and it turned a dark purple on contact. I stopped using grocery store food and my animals stopped discharging their food prematurely. You don't have to take my word for it. You can test this for yourself.

While my apstaisa (spelling?) don't seem to mind high nitrates or phosphates, I believe this, "anemones can fare very well in water conditions that stunt coral growth (ie: high phosphates and nitrates). "is an example of very poor advice. If you allow nitrates and phosphates to climb in a tank with H. Mag or many other host anemones there will be problems.

My apologies to Perseus. I didn't plan on your thread getting off topic. I just didn't want you to add to the stress of your anemone by feeding it phosphate laden seafood. I hope you can find a way to turn things around for your anemone. Good Luck.

I don't think this thread is off topic at all.
I suspect Perseus's anemone is suffering from conditions that are quite the opposite of those being suggested by others in this thread: namely, environmental conditions.
I think his anemone was placed in a new aquarium (read: very clean environment) and it's suffering for it.
I don't think his anemone is suffering from a presence of nitrates and phosphates at all.
I've kept many anemones in an environment of relatively high nitrates and phosphates and they've reproduced (sexually and by divison) in such situations. Many corals in the exact same environment did not fare so well!
We still don't know the lighting over this aquarium, but I've seen Entacmaea do fine under VHO and NO lighting as long as environmental conditions and regular feedings are within the tolerable range.
I think Perseus's anemone would have been better off if fed any foods ("phosphate laden" preserved foods included) as anemones (IME) can tolerate the preservatives found in human foods as long as the food is fresh.
Before somebody walks away with the wrong impression, let me sum up that it's always preferable to feed anemones fresh uncooked seafood rather than cooked or preserved seafoods.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/512/7144136_3668.JPG
my Macrodactyla doreensis spawning

[Rod Buehler]

I would like to add that it never hurts to rinse that fresh seafood with some RO water :D

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10529271#post10529271 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rod Buehler
I would like to add that it never hurts to rinse that fresh seafood with some RO water :D
good idea.
Although phosphates may inhibit calcification (growth) in corals, I've never seen them impede the growth/reproduction in Entacmaea.
How about you, Rod?

[Rod Buehler]

I agree Gary.

I guess that if the levels were through the roof, there might be some issues, but if they were through the roof, many other things could be going wrong as well.

[perseus]

>does he look slimey or full of mucous? when he does, you have to pull him out and sniff it. if he stinks, he doesnt go back in the water.

No, he wasn't slimey. I didn't pull him out yet.

He completely detached from the left side of the tank and got blow to the right side. He then reattached somewhat to the bottom/back of the tank and is kinda of hiding behind a rock.

He is looking somewhat better and the mouth closed up some. He isn't eating any food as he had some fresh raw shrimp and mysis caught inside his tentacles, but it didn't stick and he didn't pull it in at all. He also hasn't fallen apart at all and no tentacles are shrinking. The color in the base was fading but is coming back somewhat.

I think he tends to do better when in the light as he seems worse each morning.

Thanks everyone for the help!

[wicked_NaCl_h2o]

hey perseus, I am dealing with the same problem with my gbta. I am afraid mine might not survive but I am hoping it will. I am wondering..is it bad for the anemone for a clown to host it when it looks this bad? Is it possible for the clown to kill the anemone when it is in this condition? Mine is fluffing up but its mouth is wide open. My Avatar is a picture of what my gbta use to look like and this is what it looks like now.
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3514/picture100nc0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[55semireef]

wicked_NaCl_h2o, your GBTA has bleached and is obviously slowly declining in health. When any anemone is declining in health I have found that the presence of clownfish hosting can make the situation worse.

As for the food topic, I always buy organic seafood just to be on the safe side. They don't add presevatives with organic foods.

[timrandlerv10]

yes a clown can harm the anemone.

sometimes they 'love it to death' especially maroons that are two large relative to the nem.

for sick or declining health nems, keep a close eye--if they are rubbing it, pushing, etc the nem may be better off with some protection--i havent had that problem, but i've heard people use strawberry baskets or the like.

wicked saltwater, what changed in your tank between the avatar and the current pic? how long did you have it in the first pic?

perseus, the fact that we've made another few days is a good sign...

[perseus]

Well, I think he hid behind the rock to maybe not get so much love from the clowns.

It always looks worse in the morning.

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/40000000bf75ffb/1/89/6KHNqCJVyz_Xi4I4p4t4zthraL71a2eF.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/GGHt1dNH6j83IZ4W7GOJg6MCAhiaTMzm?referrer=hlnk)

[perseus]

Thanks for the help again everyone... but it is now officially over. I had to remove it tonight.

[Ladipyg]

A tank set up in Mid-April, cycled or not is not sufficiently aged to support an anemone...I would wait a year and even better 18 months before introducing an anemone...sounds like a long time, but better than seeing the results pictured above. I know it's hard to wait...almost all of us "Old timers" in the hobby have succumbed to the impatience of having our own reef...that cute little fish we didn't research but couldn't resist ( you know, the one that ended up eating every one of our cleaning crew or every polyp off of our corals) that piece that "looked" really healthy so we skipped quarantine just to end up with nudi branches or even worst red bugs. We can only offer advice to the younger reefers but we can't make them take it...if you're posting on this forum it shows you have an open mind...that's the first step.
There are changes that go on as a tank ages beyond cycling...changes that may or may not be seen with a test kit but take place none the less. These are the unseen changes that have to take place before trying again with another anemone.

Patience Grasshopper and Good luck!!

[han012]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10547905#post10547905 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ladipyg
A tank set up in Mid-April, cycled or not is not sufficiently aged to support an anemone...I would wait a year and even better 18 months before introducing an anemone...sounds like a long time, but better than seeing the results pictured above. I know it's hard to wait...almost all of us "Old timers" in the hobby have succumbed to the impatience of having our own reef...that cute little fish we didn't research but couldn't resist ( you know, the one that ended up eating every one of our cleaning crew or every polyp off of our corals) that piece that "looked" really healthy so we skipped quarantine just to end up with nudi branches or even worst red bugs. We can only offer advice to the younger reefers but we can't make them take it...if you're posting on this forum it shows you have an open mind...that's the first step.
There are changes that go on as a tank ages beyond cycling...changes that may or may not be seen with a test kit but take place none the less. These are the unseen changes that have to take place before trying again with another anemone.

Patience Grasshopper and Good luck!!

i'll probably get flamed for this entry & its going a little off subject from the thread but i just feel like i have to speak my mind.

i can't agree w/ the 1+ years of sw experience that dictates whether an anemone can survive. personally, i got my gbta 2 months after the tank has been meticulously setup. i did research, sought out a good seller & got the anemone. i've had the gbta for about a month now & it's grown about an inch so far. in fact, it actually looks healthier than it did in the previous owner's tank because the color's a deeper brown/green w/ no spots of white on the tentacles. i guess my 1+ years of fw helped but i can't see why someone that has done there hw & got the anemone from a trusted seller can't have one just because there tank is young.

after researching sw tanks & keeping track of this forum & my local WAMAS (washington dc area aquarist society) forums religously, i feel that the experience i gained makes up for my lack of real experience in the hobby. i'm not saying that there won't be bumps in the road (this happens to even the most experienced hobbiest) but i think that research can make up for some experience.

again, i didn't write this to infuriate the "oldtimers" but us young bloods need some input on this!!! =D

[phender]

I am an "oldtimer" and I am not going to flame you. However, the 6 -18 month break-in time for your tank is a guideline that will help most people be more successful with anemones. I doesn't mean that an anemone will instantly die when put into a new tank. Quite frankly, if you start with a very healthy BTA, unless something really drastic happens in your tank, they can put up with a lot of harsh treatment. Unfortunately, just changing tanks, even from a good one to another good one, puts a lot of stress on an anemone and can cause its death.

As Ladipyg said (BTW, Ladipyg I haven't seen you in this forum before until a couple days ago and thank you for joining us here!) your tank will go through many changes in the next few months. Some you will see like algae blooms and crashes, pod blooms and crashes and some that you won't see like bacterial blooms and crashes. All these things will put stress on your anemone, because it changes the water chemistry, sometimes very quickly. Between 6 - 18 months your tank becomes more stable organically and inorganically (ph, alkalinity, etc.).
So if someone asked your advice, would you tell go ahead and put an anemone in a new tank, it won't matter or would you tell them that they will have a better chance for success if they wait for a year.

Sometimes people get a little up-tight when others don't follow the "guidelines", but you know what, when I started there were no guidelines. I watched my fair share of anemones die in my tanks. That doesn't happen very much anymore, because we understand a little better how to take care of these creatures. Do I go against the accepted thought sometimes? Everyonce in a while, but I know I am taking a risk and I don't try to convince others that its not a risk.
You are taking a risk. Hopefully it will work out for you. If it doesn't, and you start to have problems, I (for one) promise not to yell at you. :)

[han012]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10550948#post10550948 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phender
I am an "oldtimer" and I am not going to flame you. However, the 6 -18 month break-in time for your tank is a guideline that will help most people be more successful with anemones. I doesn't mean that an anemone will instantly die when put into a new tank. Quite frankly, if you start with a very healthy BTA, unless something really drastic happens in your tank, they can put up with a lot of harsh treatment. Unfortunately, just changing tanks, even from a good one to another good one, puts a lot of stress on an anemone and can cause its death.

As Ladipyg said (BTW, Ladipyg I haven't seen you in this forum before until a couple days ago and thank you for joining us here!) your tank will go through many changes in the next few months. Some you will see like algae blooms and crashes, pod blooms and crashes and some that you won't see like bacterial blooms and crashes. All these things will put stress on your anemone, because it changes the water chemistry, sometimes very quickly. Between 6 - 18 months your tank becomes more stable organically and inorganically (ph, alkalinity, etc.).
So if someone asked your advice, would you tell go ahead and put an anemone in a new tank, it won't matter or would you tell them that they will have a better chance for success if they wait for a year.

Sometimes people get a little up-tight when others don't follow the "guidelines", but you know what, when I started there were no guidelines. I watched my fair share of anemones die in my tanks. That doesn't happen very much anymore, because we understand a little better how to take care of these creatures. Do I go against the accepted thought sometimes? Everyonce in a while, but I know I am taking a risk and I don't try to convince others that its not a risk.
You are taking a risk. Hopefully it will work out for you. If it doesn't, and you start to have problems, I (for one) promise not to yell at you. :)

i wholeheartedly agree w/ you. :rollface:

[Ladipyg]

Hey Youngbloods, we love having you...this hobby would decline very quickly without new blood.
The changes in this hobby in the last 37 years have been nothing short of amazing. In 1970 we used under gravel filters, N/O florescent lighting, no MH or PC, no refugiums or sumps, dried coral as decorations and fish only with the occasional scallop, crab or shrimp that made it into the hobby. Live rock...how the heck could rock be alive.. We worked feverishly to keep that dreaded hard purple stuff off of our glass and heaters. We kept fish that didn't have a chance, Mandarins, Sweetlips, Moorish Idols, Grunts, etc. After 2 years in the hobby I received a 75 gallon tank...HUGE in those days and after cycling it with a dead shrimp, my first resident was a Loggerhead turtle hatchling, less that 2 inches around, purchased for $18.00 in hard earned baby-sitting money. I am amazed now that he live long enough to out grow the aquarium and eventually the 3 foot tall kiddie pool with the swimming pool filter I kept in the basement. (Thanks Mom and Dad!) Much tears and begging resulted in a road trip to Florida when he was released in the Atlantic. (A big NO-NO these days.)
Han012...I said that the aquarium should be established for around 12 to 18 months...I didn't say anything about how much experience the keeper had to have. Keeping an anemone 6 to 12 months good, 12 to 24 GREAT and anything over that is a tribute to it's keeper as most anemones don't live that long in captivity. If nothing else, I've learned that I still have a lot to learn...that no one starts this hobby with expert status, that if we're lucky we have mentors like those here on RC that help us through all the newbie questions.
My passion now a days is "saving" "dead" carpet, magnifica and other hard to keep anemones. I've been give them with gaping mouths, flaccid tentacles, bleached out and rolling around loose on the bottom of a tank. Right now my score is 5 for 5 with the oldest reaching 3 years in captivity and the latest being 9 weeks into it's rescue...and getting to the point where I can claim success.
We experiment, we study, we challenge and learn and if we're lucky one day we make a discovery that makes the rest of us slap our foreheads and say "Why didn't I think of that?"
I'm sure most will agree with me when I say there is a down side to being an "Oldtimer"...I'm betting in 37 years I've lost more livestock than you youngsters have even owned to this point. That if I spent the time and money on my education that I have on this hobby, I'd be the next Einstein. That there are days when I feel as if my brain laid on the edge of a razor blade would look like a BB in the middle of a four-lane highway. But we takes risks and sometimes we win and sometimes we don't.
I am NOT FLAMING ANYONE, if you don't try you won't learn but by the same token don't keep buying and losing the same fish or coral over and over again without making changes to the tank. Not everyone has the knack for taking care of the same thing...with me it's anemones...I have a buddy that has a knack with tangs and has had an Achilles in his tank for over 4 years...an achievement made possible by building his tank with a tidal-surge zone....not good for some fish but PERFECT for his passion...
And in the end...isn't that what life is all about...our passions...find yours, pursue it, enjoy it and most importantly....PASS IT ON!!

[han012]

if it weren't for "old-timers", it'd be so lost. i'd say 95% of my knowledge came from forum sites like this.

i just thought i'd get "flamed" because there seems to be a tendency to stray from the norm. with anything that people are passionate about, people sometimes think they're always right.

i just hope i can gain knowledge w/ a little bit of luck to do this hobby for as long as you have.

ANWAYS...how's the gbta??? any updates?

[han012]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10547089#post10547089 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by perseus
Thanks for the help again everyone... but it is now officially over. I had to remove it tonight.

o SORRY. i didn't read this entry.

sorry to hear for your loss......i'd be devastated if i lost my gbta.....