I give up on sps

[saltykelly]

I have tried all kinds of sps frags from YR, and all of them have died except the ones that are currently dying in my tank. They usually brown a bit and then start bleaching soon after. The only sps I have had any luck with is a orange plating monti. It was growing well and seemed happy until a couple days ago it started bleaching. I don't know how you guys do it.

[little_d]

What's work for me is keeping nitrate low or close to 0, I had seen my tank with low alk, cal and mag and everything is doing fine but when nitrate shoot up that's when I had sps bleaching.

[recreative]

here is the equation:

quality skimmer + good flow + high light + water changes + relatively stable/clean water = happy corals.

there really is no major secret, just good husbandry.

dont give up, read up - and try harder.

[Justin74]

Couple things you need to monitor closely to keep SPS. Especially if your tank hasnt been set up a few years or long enough to be able to "feel" any fluctuations with how it processes nitrates and phosphates and the current demands on Ca, alk, and Mg. Couple corals out there make for good natural indicators pulsating xenia being a good measure of alk and pH. Browning out can be caused by a few things also, temps too high, nitrates too high, and or phosphates too high.

A combination of the above or even some by themselves can cause brown outs to bleaching.

And this is just water chemistry :D Then you have light intensities, too much can cause brown or bleached, to little can cause bleaching as well.

Then theres flow..... :D :D

Im sorry to hear your frustrations. SPS more often than not is something you cant just try and hope for the best. It takes an understanding of a few concepts but more importantly demands optimal and stable water conditions for continued succes.

Close monitoring for a couple months will help you understand your tanks capabilities and limitations. And will also help you get a working understanding of what it takes manage your tanks limitations and do what it takes to make conditions the best they can be.

-Justin

[bluenassarius]

i'll probably get slammed for saying this but i had sps in tank w/ uncured live rock and they were still encrusting and growing strong. i'm sure nitrates were there but i had a bunch of macroalgae, no skimmer and lots of flow

[Fragmented]

Sorry to hear about your struggle. I would be happy to help you try to save them if they are not too far gone. My QT is up and running. Give me a call.

[funman1]

I hate to ask but what are your water prams?

Alk=
CA=
MG=
No3=
Po4=
PH=

Run a good cheato fuge w/ ots of flow and lights?
How your skimming? (Though some tanks some how get away with out it, and have excellent restults; but I'd say that's not the norm.)

Just from the sounds of it, not knowing what you have, I'd guess water prams.. But more info needed

[dots]

SPS=Stability Promotes Success

Paying attention to the Holy Trinity of SPS will achieve results.

Note: all 3 are equally important and need to be adressed to be successful.

1. Light
2. Flow
3. Water Quality

I think you are finding out how unforgiving the colored sticks can be. Some are discouraged, others.........like myself try to beat and tame those little fleshy bits of chalk into submission. Most of the time they win.......

[saltykelly]

Okay, okay. My water quality is definately not great by far. I hadn't done water changes in 2 months. (luckily you guys never see me or you would probably kick me) My wife got jealous of the tank so I had to cut back + I had no salt for a while. I should have good paramiters besides water.

30 gal cube- 250watt MH, 130 watts actinic, Hydor Koralia 4 [1200 gph] Prizm protein skimmer,
I dose my alk and calc. often and test every 1-3 days, but I don't have test kits for mag, nitrate, or phos.
Ph has been abnormally high @ 8.6?
At this point I'm not positive my new sps frags are dying. Can't tell if they're bleaching or new growth. I will try to post some pics when I can.

[Fragmented]

I sent you a PM with my phone number. I can bring my test kits over if you would like.

[Justin74]

Thats pretty high, I have an acro(just one, but one of my oldest established, albeit maricultured in the wild and not homegrown) that gets burned when I kept at 8.3-8.6. May want to consider just supplementing your alk with unbaked baking soda. What form of calcium are you supplementing with? If calcium hydroxide this would explain a high pH as well, and should be administered very slowly and even better during the night when the tank's pH is at it's lowest.

May want to just top off with water till you get a range +/-.2 of 8.2(natural salt water).

Regardless though even with that all dialed in high spikes in nitrate let alone phosphates could spell the downfall of any new frag if left unmanaged. Ez way is just take your water in next time you go to your LFS and have them test the stuff you can't for(usually no more than a $1 a test, quite often done for free as well). That way you can get more of a plan of attack and become more familiar with your tank's capabilities and limitations

Always a good choice to start with is various montipora specie. One of the more tolerant and forgiving sps, but still let's you know when your slipping and more often than not bounce back when you get your perams dialed back in. Good luck :)



-Justin

[robertloop]

I'm a hard core KH believer. I always had higher nitrates and crappy flow in my old 55. I had multiple species of Acro and montis thriving for years under 12000K 175w halide. That's litterally ALL I had. NItrates where always in the 50's. Yes..... 50's. Usually kept the salt about 1.025. Sometimes 1.023. Didnt really makek a diff. All that... and my tank would go from 78 to 84 degrees EVERY day in the summer. All I dosed was b-ionic two part. I kept the kh around 9 dKH and the CA would always be around 350. I also used a amino acid suppliment from sea chem called "reef plus". Firm beliver in that stuf too. Hand to gawd I had excellent sucess w/sps. For that reason I really dont by into all the regular claims that the water has to be PERFECT in every way to keep the hard stuff. Now........ LPS and montis were the fist to let me know that the nitrates were getting over 50 ppm.. Bottom line... It was an old tank. Had it set up for litterally 6 years. Had course gravel (crushed coral)and the pods ran rampant. (So did the detritus, in the gravel) The bio load from all the fish kept the nitrates up no matter what I did. And the finicky prism skimmer was never quite right. Oh yeah.. and water changes? You dont want to know about that schedule. I would basically wait untill the tang could not keep up with algae and the polyp extension would wane on the montis. Yeah.. I know... BAD husbandry. I'm the first to admit it. But how can you argue with the following results?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/robertloop/05913bf8.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/robertloop/staghorn1_1_06.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/robertloop/left.jpg

This images are not touched in any way, other than resizing for web friendly use.
I've since upgraded my tank to a 120g and have all the cool mods in place to controll my params way better. Read.....automated...

CA reactor(a god send), better skimmer, sump, reef controller... ect.... Now that I have all IDEAL water params the coral continues to do well and everything grows alot faster. So any ways. test the kh regularly.. keep it good with an easy two part. .... Get the two part from marinedepot.com for the best price BY FAR of anyone. Oh yeah... And keep the nitrates down. Do this and your coral will not die.

Robert

[robertloop]

Lol!! notice the cyano in the second image. Never could totally get rid of that stuff. I'm guessing crappy skimmer+bad husbandry back then....

[saltykelly]

Heres some photo's:
Monti with unknown frag underneath


http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/saltykelly/?action=view&current=CIMG2772.jpg

Another unknown frag.
http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/saltykelly/?action=view&current=CIMG2773.jpg

Better shot of monti
http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/saltykelly/?action=view&current=CIMG2774.jpg

Better shot of unknown frag- Not sure if the white is new growth or bleaching. Got it from YR as a bleach out special.
http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/saltykelly/?action=view&current=CIMG2778.jpg

[edsimmons]

Saltykelly if you copy & paste the IMG code we can see the pic in the thread
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/saltykelly/CIMG2772.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/saltykelly/CIMG2773.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/saltykelly/CIMG2774.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/saltykelly/CIMG2778.jpg

[saltykelly]

Thanks Ed. I'm new to the image thing.

[Justin74]

Could be many things, I hate to say it but the cap looks like it had a pest, possibly a monti eating nudi. Do a google search on monti eating nudibranchs and get your flash light out a few hours after lights out and look along the the edge of the tissue that's still alive. If theres some little white critters about the size of a pencil leads that may be it. They kinda look like a peice of detritus or when there really small look like a polyp but white. And magnified over a 100X they look white slugs with a ridge along there side made of wavy finger bones.


-Justin

[saltykelly]

Yeah it does look like it's been eaten by nudi's. how could I get rid of them? A dip? QT? predator? please help.

[Justin74]

First and foremost make sure that you may indeed have them, before ANY experimentation. Secondly, if you do; there is nothing known and/or scientifically documented at present time to alleviate this problem other than manual removal of ALL montipora specie and wait it out. The life span if that particular nudi im unfamiliar with, nor if their eggs can lay dorment or not. I hear some people waiting 6 months before trying montis again. Some claim success by isolation and constant monitoring and manual removal with a soft bristle tooth brush, although again nothing that has ever been claimed is an absolute definitive way to cure or alleviate them through any form of documented scientific procedure, basically no proof.

There are many other beginner sps though :) The only reason I mentioned a pest is the fact that the cap in whole does not appear discolored but is pretty orange right up to the outter edge. Get a dark bowl with a couple cups of your tank water and place the cap and look CLOSELY at every centimeter, moreso along the out edge of the living tissue and in all nooks and crannies. If you still cannot see anything and have a spare clean toothbrush, ever so lightly graze the underside AND along the upperside where the dead and living tissue meet. If you dont notice anything by then nore left in the dark bowl, nudis may very well not be your problem and can go back to plan A ;)

Other hardy SPS to try are various prostrata's, milli's,(the hairy looking acros), admired by experts and beginners alike green slimer (A. yongei), pocillopora's, stylophora's to name a few, all except the acros will not succumb to pests if introduced. All though Im not too sure on exactly what red bugs eat sounds as if their pallet is broadening from acros. A few people on the forums are claiming that there eating there LPS too? Is that right anyone?? I never had them, so ignorance is still bliss at the moment:rolleyes:

-Justin

[saltykelly]

So I did some research and then did a fresh water dip and used a bulb syringe to suck off the adult nudi. Hopefully the Monti survives.

[saltykelly]

I know I will have to treat them more times. I hear their eggs are bullet proof.

[saltykelly]

If you want some more info here is one of the links (http://www.reeffarmers.com/tracygraynudi01.htm) I have.