Cold water tanks

[airinhere]

Okay, I am scuba certified and I know for a fact that I will be taking some stuff home from time to time when I go diving. (I will be following all applicable laws).

My question is about the thickness of the glass or acrylic to prevent condensation from forming.

I am pretty sure glass is out as an option because it would glaze over very quickly.

I have read that acrylic at 1 inch is okay to prevent condensation, but if a room was kept at 77F would a half inch thick plexiglas tank work?

Could I go thinner?

I have a nice 120 gal tank that is 3/8ths of an inch, but I think that would be too thin.

I am thinking about making my own acrylic tank and want to make sure I get acrylic that is going to be thick enough without costing me a fortune in materials.

I am also looking to get an old 1 hp condenser unit to use as a drop in chiller (drop into the sump). Anyone ever hear of good directions on how to rig up a unit that is controlable? Figure I will need a thermostatic controller and maybe even a heater unit and just run the whole thing off a modified central heat and air controller.

[Larry Robison]

Just a thought . . . get some scrap @ TAP and make a little test tank, and see what happens. Sure, it wouldn't be the same size as the real tank, but you could even silicone it into the side of a larger expendable container, and get some real data.

Hope this helps.

[Reefugee]

Water at Monterey is typically 50-58F. You're going to need some massive cooling to keep that tank that cool. Just something to consider.

Minh

[airinhere]

Thats why I am looking at a 1 hp condenser to use as a chiller.
Next Summer I am going to Alaska and want to bring some of the anems and critters I find there home with me, so I kow I am going to need lots of cooling power. Anyone ever hear of someone DIY a cooling rig like that?

I know I can just work it out, but it would be nice to find somewhere that someone else has done the trial and error.

[petes97]

I've read that acrylic has better insulating properties than glass, so that may be one more reason to go with acrylic.

You might also want to investigate insulation for the sides, bottom and back. Closed cell foam may give you a high R value with only a few inches, and you could spray it in between the plexi and a wood container.

[Nuuze]

When talking to Andy at Teco he mentioned that their chillers can be used for cold water setups...HTH

[ned2getfish]

I use to run a cold water reef 15yrs ago very simple process i used a regular chiller just set the temp low most chiller these days you can not do that if you need help send me your number 3/8 inch glass should be fine

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10460278#post10460278 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
I will be taking some stuff home from time to time when I go diving. (I will be following all applicable laws). .

Your first sentance and your last don't go together. There is really nothinng you can bring home to keep in a tank. You can only take what is in the F&G regs, meaning it has to be of legal limit. There is not tidal critters that you can take with out a permit virtually no one cen get but eduacators. No anemonies, no brittle stars, etc. You could have a couple small rock fish though :)

FWIW I have spent years talking to all levels of CA F&G over this issue. A couple years back they asked my friend to help craft the laws but nothing has happenned since. I highly doubt they'll ever open up any hobby colelctions, just the opposite in fact.

With the MB being declared a protected national marine sanctuary the laws here are even stricter. All tide pools are off limits as are all tidal creatures.

[airinhere]

Well, I went and am doing a little searching of my own and found out about the Marine Life Protection Act, which should be going into effect sometime in September.

It designates specific protected areas and puts regulations on collection from certain areas. However, most of the coast is not set to be designated as any special status.

I spoke with Melissa Miller-Henson, Operations & Communications Manager for the MLPA Initiative Staff (She was very nice). Right now she is doing some asking around to help me find out what the laws are governing such activities.

Its a very Big Ocean, and it seems strange that we as hobbyists couldnt enjoy the unusual life from our own coastline and yet many around the world keep similar organisms from around the world.

[juaninsac]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10468411#post10468411 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
Its a very Big Ocean

There were a lot of passenger pigeons and American bison too. :D

[petes97]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10469916#post10469916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by juaninsac
There were a lot of passenger pigeons and American bison too. :D

That's not a fair comparison. Slaughtering bison for food vs. keeping and preserving natural habitats in captivity for enjoyment, learning and preservation...

I know most people don't have the same goals that we do, but if the serious hobbyist is to be compared with the slaughter of bison we should start boycotting Zoos.

I know your comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, and I don't entirely disagree, but it is a very real problem we need to think about.

[ned2getfish]

I agree petes

[airinhere]

if anyone is uncertain on my personal stance on collection of organisms from the ocean it is very simple.

I believe in following the letter and intent of the Law

I believe in realistic laws

I believe we should have areas that are preserved free of human disruption.

I believe that personal collection from the sea for home aquaria or food should be freely available and potentially licensed like sport fishing.

I think that commercial collection of organisms should be carefully monitored and controlled but should still be made available. This is the real danger to our Ocean wildlife and comprehensive rules should be in place to maintain those resources.

I do not like to have other people both strongly against and strongly for either extreme drag me into their personal issues. You want to fight over something, call my momma names, don't get all upset over the enviroment.

I refuse to be blamed for the worlds problems and I accept responsibility by my own standards for its continued longevity.

Now about the cold water tanks...

[airinhere]

I got a PM from Steve Weast with some helpful advice about running a coldwater tank.
Seems he had a diver buddy with a half inch thick plexi tank that he claims doesnt sweat unless the room temp hits 90F. I am thinking my 120 would be just fine for a coldwater tank. (its 3/8 inch thick.)

He also says that since the coldwater organisms need so much food, I will need a heavy duty skimmer and probably a denitrator coil. There is no such thing as live rock or macroalgae export of nitrates for a coldwater tank. (like spitting in the wind)

So as it turns out, I am about to have around fifty pounds of live rock that I will be looking to get rid of that is currently in the sump of my 120. Anyone have a big ol skimmer or denitrator they would be willing to trade? I could throw in some big zoo colonies or lots of hairy mushrooms as well.

Need to get:
1/2 to 1 HP chiller.
Skimmer rated for 250 (plus) gal
denitrator rated for 250 (plus) gal

Have for trade:
50 (or so) pounds of cycled live rock
3 zoanthid colonies bigger than my fist
four hairy mushroom colonies bigger than my fist
pair of Tomatoe clowns

Anyone interested in a trade?

[DrDNA]

You might want to consider making your own cold-water live rock. Some stores have the man-made live rock that is very porous, or I suppose you could even use old base rock or something that has sit out in the open air for a long time.

And as for lighting, you should be fine with NO fluorescents since most, if not all, coldwater species are not photosynthetic (except for the macroalgaes, most of which are low-light anyway, especially the reds).

[airinhere]

Funny you should mention that. I am one of the people making the aragocrete you have seen at some of the local stores. I also have recently started making full tank reefscapes. I have done this for all three of my main tanks and the 120 is in its fourth month of cycling the aragocrete. Now to switch it over to cold water and start the process over again, but this time I will be using massive skimming and denitrification units instead of relying on the biological capabilities of the rock. Hopefully I will just have to wait for the tank to do an ammonia cycle again and then at most the 40 day period like freshwater takes to fully cycle.

This is the rockscape I have in the 120. It is up to six inches from the back wall and leaves a nice foot and a half of open water for fish to swim around in. Should look great covered in anemones.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/airinhere/DSCN0099.jpg