Need tank maker reference in Bay Area, CA

[reefeer]

Hi,

I live in Bay Area. I need some feedback on the tank manufacturers. Please help if you have experience with any of them. I am thinking about 400Gallon tank

TruVu
World Marine System
BioReef?
etc.

Any good cabinet maker?

Thanks in advance.

[beerguy]

[moved]

[jmc74]

World Marine System made my frag tank, and it was very well made, and way less expensive than TruVu... and they build it fast, unlike TruVu 1 month wait time.


plus TruVu does not sell direct, you must go thru dealers, increasing the cost

[ryguan]

Anyone has the link to World Marine System's website or phone#?

[GreshamH]

Most dealers hardly mark up acrylic tanks.

For a 400g tank I would get it done by professionals. World Marine Systems while great for frag tanks and such just don't cut it when talking about things that could cost you thousands if it broke. Tru Vu is insured and offers a full warranty, how about World Marine Systems? TruVu ahs been around for 30+ years to boot :D

[Elite]

I think Truvu's tank is better than WMS's. The seams on Truvu's tank are much cleaner. IMO :D

[tuberider]

You can also try Kritter tanks too, both Gen at Kritter, and TruVu build nice tanks.

[jmc74]

here is my tank


http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1129425

[Cozen89]

I got a great deal on a kritter tank. Well made.

[reefeer]

Thank you everyone.

[fishsoldseprtly]

definitely disagree about the comments made about WMS, I have had tanks made by TruVu, World Marine Sys, S&S and Gen @ Kritterz.
I think WMS also makes quality tanks, I have always requested the extra work, such as rounded edges and other finishes to cpmplete a nice built tank. His work has gotten a lot better than a few years ago as well and he doesnt charge an arm and a leg for extra finish work as well. Ohh and he also does provide warranty on his tanks, you just have to ask him.
The best tank maker out of all the ones mentioned IME has got to be Gen @ Kritterz, he charges just a little bit more than WMS but by far way better than the big companies such as TruVu and S&S. TruVu is just way to overpriced for what you get, definitely a lot of other and better tank builders out there, but for a 400G tank, I would go Gen @ Kritterz.

[GreshamH]

You have to ask to get a warranty? That's funny :lol: Sounds like a tail light warranty to me.

So when his 400g fails and he forgot to "ask" for a warrenty or even if he did, is WMS bonded or insured for said event or do you haveto take them to small claims court? At Tru Vu they have product liability insurance which can more then cover any event like that.

[reefeer]

I know a guy who bought from WMS. There is a 12" cut in the center of the front of the tank. I want to order from them but it's really scary.

[andyman]

Warranty from any company is bogus. I bought a Truvu tank, when I received it, it had a bad seem which leaked water out a drop at a time. Did truvu warranty it? Well they didn't want to and it took a lot of talking on the phone to get my money back and another tank. Not to mention their process for taking custom order is broken since they didn't make my tank correctly (a simple form to fill out would have fixed this problem.) Personally I don't think it matters who you buy your tank from, they are ALL a pain in the *** when it comes to warranty for their bad workmanship. No body wants to take back a tank for repairs, it is bulky, shipping can cost $$, and just about everyone will give you a hard time and say ," its not me!"

[andyman]

Oh as far as WMS goes, you really get what you pay for. Quality control isn't their strongest points there. Sometimes its great, sometimes its not. The stand I bought from them was made so badly I had to buy 2x4 to re-enforce it or it would have collapsed under any load. If I were you guys, take very good look at the tank and stand if you buy from them. They are a good deal if you know what to look for and avoid.

[rommelgin]

i got my 150 from them.....built pretty good....only thing that p***ed me off was when i went to peel off the protective film from the front panel, there was a scratch that went down the entire length of the tank. :mad2:

i didnt peel off the film till about a month after i got it because i was storing it in my garage and didnt want it to get scratched and low and behold, they had already done it for me! I couldnt bring it back because he didnt give me a reciept so i didnt have to pay for tax. Me being so eager to get it home i said thats fine save me some cash. scratch wasnt too bad, nothing a little buffing wouldnt get out but the price you pay you expect something flawless.

im thinking of having kritter creations make my sump this time around....

[reefeer]

Is kritter website krittertanks.com?

Thanks

[jmc74]

http://www.krittertanks.com/index.htm

[Kinetic]

I've had 4 acrylic tanks made for me so far (lol), one from Gen at Kritter, and 3 from SoCalCreations down in San Diego.

Gen is a really nice guy, he'll deliver to your house, drill the holes on the spot, flame polishes the holes, etc. The stuff he builds is really top notch, and despite some claims that he takes awhile, my tank was done in a week!

He isn't very high tech when it comes to 3d modeling stuff, he basically does nice wire-frame CAD like designs for you, which is totally fine and much better than I've experienced getting quotes from other companies.

He did a cool tank for me where the sides and front were one piece, rounding the corners. There was a little edge on one side, but it wasn't bad at all. The weirdest thing is, the eurobracing was a bit uneven. Sure you don't see it, but it definitely wasn't uniform.

My SoCalCreation tanks were all 100% flawless. It looks like they were made by a machine. They use Spartech Polycast for no extra charge usually, which is some of the best acrylic for aquariums from what I've researched and seen. The customer service is amazing. They also make the most beautiful custom stands as well.

They don't send you any wire models etc., but they instead make sure they get all the details. They also go out of their way to make things a bit better. They totally rounded the lip of the tank for me, polished etc., but for Gen's tank, if I didn't tell him, he wouldn't do it, which is fine, but just goes to show SoCalCreations goes far beyond what you expect.

So anyway, I'd recommend Gen, or if you can, get a SoCalCreation tank shipped. Shipping is a bit, but worth it in my opinion. They will also create custom sumps, stands, etc so you can get the whole shebang.

Goodluck!

[orientalexpress]

why get tank from the builder?just wait until Art aka "kinetic" tank going on special.:),

[Kinetic]

hahaha lol! what size do you need? ;)

[Elite]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10405987#post10405987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orientalexpress
why get tank from the builder?just wait until Art aka "kinetic" tank going on special.:),


:lol: :lol:

[dochou]

STAY AWAY FROM WMS
The bottom line is you get what you pay for and maybe not even that!
The owner is Young and his quality control Sucks big time. He has a bunch of lame brains working for him that don't know very much.
It took him over 5 wks to build my tank, which is a 36"x24"x24" with center overflow, stand, canopy, and sump. Once he finished he didn't call me and when I called him he said he lost my Phone#, and didn't bother to call me ever.
When I picked up the tank, Young was not at the shop and so he said leave my credit card number with the lackies and Young was to charge my credit card the remaining balance due. I took the tank home and left it in the garage as I prepared all my other setup stuff. A week later I found out that he over charged me by $811. Even thought I requested that he send me a reciept when I picked up the tank, he never gave me a reciept. When I called to complain he said he did not over charge me and he demanded that I show proof that he overcharged me $811. I faxed the info to him and he took a week to get back to me, after I called him multiple times; after much discussion he finally admitted fault and refunded my $811.

Like rommelgin did, I left the tank in the garage for month and did not take the protective sticker off to protect it from scratches. When I finally took the protective sticker off... Guess what I found...there was a scratch that went down the entire length of the tank...ON ALL THE CORNERS...2 on each corner on inside of tank and 2 on inside of tank. ie there were 8 length wise scratches, running form top to bottom!!! I was so mad. I called him and he said "I will give you some polish to rub it out." By that time I already had the DSB in the tank without water. I live 60miles away from the shop. I drove all the way back and he gives me some polish to rub out all 8 scratches that were deep. Looks like he used a razor blade to cut off the protective sticker at the bent corners of tank. I then busted my butt trying to rub out the scratches. I could not get them off. He told me to bring the tank back and he would do it. I emptied the sand out of tank and hauled it back 60mi. Left it there for a week and then went back to pick it up. I take one look at the tank and all the scratches are still there just a bit lighter and in addition there are a bunch of micro scratches on it!!! The lacky boy said that it would be impossible to get the power buffer into the interior of the tank and thus he would not be able to get the scraches off.
He tried to buff off the outter scratches while I was waiting to complain to Young. The guy proceeded to buff with Car polish with power buffer.
I complained to Young and he says he will try again and told me to come back next week. I was livid at this point, and demanded a new tank. How could a so called "professional" tank builder make such a stupid mistake? After a long debate he said he would build another tank. As i was leaving he then said "Oh you drilled your tank at the over flows already, I can't sell this anymore and I don't warranty tanks once they have been drilled." He also said I did not drill the holes properly and that I would not get the bulk heads to fit right. I got into a huge debate again and it took 30 minutes of arguing to get him to take the 1st tank and make a 2nd tank. But he made me bring my sch 80 bulk head to prove that it fit on this tank properly; another 60mi trip (120mi round trip). When he saw that it fit properly he started work on 2nd tank. I mistakenly left the sch 80 bulkheads there. So 2 wks later i went to pick up 2nd tank and I looked in his show room with about 10 tanks awaiting pickup. They all had the scratches on them! The same ones that i complained about on my 1st tank. I can't believe that others don't complain about this. So I inspect the tank, and it has a few small scratches but not the linear ones all the other tanks had. Now I notice this 2nd tank is not built the same as the 1st. The over flow box is huge! 9"x6" (1st was 7"x4") and the opening to the top of the tank is much smaller than the 1st. He proceeded to BS me about how a bigger overflow box will work better for me. I was so frustrated and angry at this point. I just wanted to get out of there. So I load up the car and say "give me my sch 80 bulk heads back". Guess what he says...
He f---n sold the 1st tank along with my bulk heads that I bought at Savko. He says that was the only way he could sell the 1st tank. What kinda BS is this? Am I in the Twilight Zone???
So I make another trip back to his shop to show him my invoice for the bulk head and he gives me the cash for it! My gas bill is off the charts at this point.

The stand and canopy where okay. No major flaws yet.
The sump was made of cheap .25" plexi and not acrylic with no bracing.

I made mistakes by not specifying every little detail of the tank. I should have told him the exact specs for the overflow box size and the top opening of the tank. I should have told him to make the sump with "acrylic" and not plexi. I should have told him to make a brace for the sump top and to use .5" thick acrylic.

To top off everything else, Young does not speak English very well and it makes communication of details very difficult. He is Vietnamese and all his employees barely speak English. I am not being racist or anything (I am Asian) but it's one of those cheap Asian mom/pop businesses. They are not professional at all.
I trusted him in the beginning and that was my mistake. I thought he knew how to build reef tanks but he actually specializes in building tanks for Asian/Chinese/Vietnamese Restaurants that house live fish for eating, not display tanks.
there is no attention to detail with WMS.

[Mr. Ugly]

Wow... amazing.

:(

[rommelgin]

Damn.....i thought i was the only one. I didnt even want to bother contacting them after i noticed the scratches. So for future tank builds i am for sure taking my business elsewhere.

[dochou]

Rommelgin, You are not the only one. I have talked to others (after I bought mine) that have had bad experiences with WMS.

[drdoolittle]

Wow.. i guest its a Hit or Miss with World Marine.

I agree with Warren and jmc74.. I had both my Main 220 and 45 gal frag tank built by them and I am pleased of the quality.. He even lend me his truck to deliver my tank from San jose to Tracy.

[Cozen89]

I said this earlier in the thread, but my kritter tank was made very very well and I got it at a good price. Took about 3.5 weeks, but what's a few weeks for a tank you are happy with and will have for years?

Just make sure you specify the exact style you want. He has descriptions and pictures on his website.

[xinumaster]

my 375g WMS made tank has scratches too. One is about 18" long that I didn't notice until a pilled off the protective sticker. The edges on the top opening were not polished. I sometime cut my hand and/or arm when I slide my arm on the edges specially when I'm cleaning the tank.

[reefeer]

dochou,

I feel sorry for you. By writing that much, I know you were very angry. I hope you feel better now. I think those business should be very careful now and put quality as their top priority. They can't assume others don't know what they did anymore. Thanks for sharing with us all. I know who to avoid now.

[jmc74]

well, thanks for the heads up, now my next tank I still will order from WMS, as I just got a quote from Kritters and they are way too expensive compared to WMS, I will be getting a smaller tanks for soft corals and Zoas, and the price they quote me for a 30x18x8 at WMS was $70, and the Kritters wants $180 for the exact same size.

I don't know anyone that cannot deal with possible scratches or their poor english, but for more than double in price, what else do you get? not funny

I know what you mean about quality, since I'm not using the tank for show, it is only for propagation, so the quality they offers is good, I have not seen the show tanks, but when I got mine, it didn't have any scratches, only the bottom edges were not 100% clear, but I don't care, I can't even see the edges, unless I'm very close to the tank...

so, they still have my business, but I know now what to search for in the future.

[jmc74]

ok, I just received a reply from "socalcreations@socalcreations.com"

and their quote:

to: socalcreations@socalcreations.com
redir: http://www.socalcreations.com/submitpage.htm
subject: Aquarium Information
email: xxxxx@xxxxxxx
Name: Juan
City: Antioch
State: Ca
Phone+Number:
Dimensions: 24x16x8
Aquarium+Shape: Rectangle
Top+Bracing: Eurobraced (thicker acrylic required)
Back+Color: Clear
Overflow+Dimensions: 3x3
Overflow+Placement: Right Back
Comment: this is for a propagation, so it need to be open top


Juan,
Our shop minimum order is $260 and the smaller tank falls into this category. (small tank)

The larger tank would be around $300/ (this was a 48x16x8)

[jmc74]

well, as we can see I can order 3 tanks from WMS for the price of one from SoCal Creations, and that does not even include shipping or tax. so much for quality, I don't think quality is 3x the cost....

[tuberider]

Are you for real? I mean like a real person? What do you get for the extra price? You get someone who knows what their doing and most likely won't burn your house down due to the fact that they don't care. It's a bitter pill to swallow but our hobby is expensive, get used to it.

[jkreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10414194#post10414194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tuberider
Are you for real? I mean like a real person? What do you get for the extra price? You get someone who knows what their doing and most likely won't burn your house down due to the fact that they don't care. It's a bitter pill to swallow but our hobby is expensive, get used to it.


Well said!!! There is a price for safety!!

[jmc74]

what safety can you get from a small tank? like I said before, I have not seen the show tanks they make, I only speak for what I have seen and I have purchased, im giving the ridiculous example of the 2 quotes I got for a small frag tank, SoCal is crazy to even think that a tank that size can be purchased for $260+shipping+tax

I don't care how well they are made, if I don't have 20,000 gal tank on my living room, why should I care if they are bonded. how many times here all of us bought a used SHOW tank? you know the 60, 75, 90, 120, 180, 240g etc. what you think you get a warranty? really from who? the warranty is not transferable, and if a tank fails, trust me the mgf will ask for a proof of purchase, or no warranty will be honored. so here im talking few dollars for small tanks, I personally never seen a tank burst, except a TRUVU, I personally seen ,and I had a 40g truvu that the seams cracked, why because they build it paper thin. the tank I ordered from WMS is build to my spec's using 1/4" all around, unlike the quote I got from TruVU via a reseller, for $580 for a thinner material, and according to truVu I didn't need the extra thickness, well I seen many Truvu tanks, leak, and bow from the water pressure, mine is thick and stays flat.

[Kinetic]

don't worry guys, he'll learn soon enough ;)

[jmc74]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10415828#post10415828 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kinetic
don't worry guys, he'll learn soon enough ;)


what is that suppose to mean....?:mad:

[drdoolittle]

I got my 220 in a 3/4 inch acrylic last year and my 45 last month... I got both in a week. Both tanks are well built and satisfied with the result. I would definitely buy from them again..

I not saying that people should buy from there. I just emphasized that i wanted a really good quality tank and Yau ( owner) agreed and offered that if i was not happy with the tank after it was built. I was not obligated to buy it and will refund me my deposit. But I was happy with the tank, so I took it home.

For my 220, he even lend me his truck so I didnt have to rent Uhaul.

Sorry to here about the guys that got a bad deal with World Marine. But my experience with them is positive.

[rommelgin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10415915#post10415915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmc74
what is that suppose to mean....?:mad:


I believe he means you get what you pay for. dont get me wrong, besides the scratches they left while cutting the protective film, not drilling the hole for the bulk head and trying to charge me extra to drill it and not polishing the edges, im happy with mine. it does the job. just not too happy with there customer service...spend the extra couple hundred and get peace of mind.

[jmc74]

that's weird, I paid $300 for mine and the edge was polished, he drilled the tank for the bulk head and included the bulk head for free, and then I spoted a 50g new that it looked like a sump, and i ask him for the price, he charge me $80 so i got it, and also he had a big pile of dry rock, he charge me an extra $40, and when I got home it was about 80lb of Dry live rock, was enough for my 50g sump. so I don't know, for me it has worked great, and they offered me excellent deals, for the others that complaint, well I feel bad, but WMS still has my business, but now that I know the issues that have hapened to others i will be more careful.

[nasotang]

I've had a few tanks made by Gen and I think his work is top notch. His work is sometimes more expensive than others, but you have to check the build quality. The cost of 1",1/3" or 1/2" acrylic sheets vs 1/4" is pretty significant.

For a tank that large you'll want to make sure you get a quality built tank. A few hundred now to save the thousands of dollars of aquarium life is worth it in my opinion. Just my .02.

You can also check with some quality lfs and see where they got their large tanks built and see who they recommend.

[dochou]

Thanks reefer, I do feel a little better now.
Yeah, as long as you know what you are getting into, go ahead and take your chances with WMS. It is hit or miss. It seems to be based on the guy's mood, re: what he does for you and at what price. He has no price list and no standard. He seems to just do what ever he feels like for the day.
Why did he do extra stuff for jmc74?
I don't know, but maybe he liked you. But he sure didn't offer me any extra, even when I asked. I asked for him to drill the tank and he refused. I asked for assistance in hauling the tank back and forth and he said no.
Buyer be ware.

[Kinetic]

i think you're ok if it's just a prop tank. if you go for a show tank, you should be ready to pay for what you get. you might be happy with WMS, but if you ever checkout a krittertank or a socal tank etc. you'll be like... "oooh that's what they meant".

I doubt anything we say will really make you understand, and heck, maybe we all have different opinions about things...

Didn't mean to sound rude or whatever, i actually posting more but for some reason the rest of it dissapeared.

[MrMikeB]

Wow, this has been a good thread. I have been working with Yau @ WMS on some tanks and stands I need for propagation research (rather large ones) and they are checking for material availability, etc. They have put together an attractive bid.

I have a CAD design blueprint on every possible detail I can imagine on the stand/tanks - do you feel this level of detail can be comprehended and built to spec? The language barrier has been difficult to deal with and most of the time I am not sure he understands a word I am saying, and vice versa - anybody willing to help translate to be sure expectations are met (seriously)? I will be sure I detail the finishing pieces too - thanks for the tip (no scratches, smooth edges, etc.) We have also agreed on on half up front and half on delivery (paid by CC with incredible liability protection). I truly believe you can pay too little, and pay too much. 3x the cost in my book is paying too much! You can mitigate most of those risks associated with potentially questionable craftsmanship (tanks flooding your home, dead livestock all over the carpet, etc.) with riders on your homeowner insurance policy. Surprisingly riders do not change your premiums substantially. Just a thought...

[dochou]

Mr. MikeB, I would seriously consider getting a Vietnamese translator if you are going to get into major detail. I couldn't figure out if he understood me or not, half the time.
A perfect example is his name! Is it Yau or Young???
I asked his name the 1st time we spoke and he said his name and I repeated back "Young?" and he said yeah.
Good luck.

[jmc74]

[i I truly believe you can pay too little, and pay too much. 3x the cost in my book is paying too much! [/B]


that's exactly what I meant, I even got a quote from TAP plastics, and thye know how to work Acrylic... and even them were not as expensive as SoCal...

I understand you pay more for quality, but there is a limit, as how much quality can be put on a small tank, I do understand if i was ordering a large show tank, then I would want the best material, best craftmanship, best design, etc. but c'mon a frag tank... 3x more expensive, that's just ridiculous IMO.:rolleye1:

[jmc74]

[i I truly believe you can pay too little, and pay too much. 3x the cost in my book is paying too much! [/B]


that's exactly what I meant, I even got a quote from TAP plastics, and they know how to work Acrylic... and even them were not as expensive as SoCal...

I understand you pay more for quality, but there is a limit, as how much quality can be put on a small tank, I do understand if I was ordering a large show tank, then I would want the best material, best craftsmanship, best design, etc. but c'mon a frag tank... 3x more expensive, that's just ridiculous IMO.:rolleye1:

[neyugn0w01]

If you are getting a small tank and not worrying about minor details, go for world marine. Otherwise get a SoCal tank if you want quality and are getting something big.

[xinumaster]

Right! frag tank or sump is okay with WMS. But "REEFEER" is not looking for a small tank. He is ordering a 400g tank. I agree go with socal or kritter.

[lakersfan0014]

jmc74:

Well I feel the need to jump on here and defend our pricing. We gave you our MINIMUM pricing for that tank. We have to keep a shop minimum because of how we are set up. We are a small operation that specializes in custom tanks. At some point it doesn't matter how small the tank, the time involved in manufacturing it is the same, which is why we have a minimum.

I know it seems as though out prices are really high, but that is only for very small tanks, as we are not geared to be building hundreds of small tanks. We feel that once you get past the minimum our pricing is very competitive for the quality you get. Hope this makes sense.

I'm not sure on how another company can build this tank for such a cheap price, I'm guessing that they are either using inferior acrylic (import or extruded) or they are building a very poor quality tank (not going to last very long) or both. We build our tanks to last forever, and they are built from quality acrylic (cell cast). Like Art mentioned above, to most just looking to get a cheap sump or frag tank, this probably doesn't matter much, but when it comes to a display tank of some size I think the piece of mind in a quality tank is worth every penny.

Sorry for such a long post, but thought I would try to clear up some of the pricing questions.

I will try to monitor this thread if anyone has questions.

Randy
Owner-SoCal Creations

[bookfish]

If visual quality is not an issue, try a sealed plywood tank w/ an inset glass viewing pane. The cost is extremely low and they can come out looking ok.

[Thales]

Or use a bucket or kiddie pool if visual quality isn't an issue.

[klam114]

For small sumps/frag tanks, WMS should be find. For display tanks, go with one of the other 3 or 4 fabricators is my rule of thumb. Even for the small sumps/frag tanks, make sure the corner edges are supported correctly/adequately or it may burst sometime down the line.