Scrubbing all valonia off rock, will rock just regrow new?

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I have come to my breaking point with valonia. I went and bought a stainless steel wire brush and intend on removing all of my frags/mini-colonies from my live rock and then removing and scrubbing till no end each piece.
My question are, since it can grow in the cleanest of water, with the most light and highest flow:
1. Does it come from within the rock itself?
2. And, after this thorough scrubbing, rinsing, repeating, will the rock just regrow new valonia?

[Flint&Eric]

it doesnt come on the rock itself, but spreads from the "juice" within the bubbles.

you'll need to do lots of dunks and swishes that's for sure. the spores will seep into the LR and you'll be back at square one.

i've always had good luck with naso tangs which took care of mine in the past...now if one does pop up i tape a needle to the end of a siphon tube, pop it and suck the "juice" out before it can spread to the tank. seems to be working alright so far.

eric

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

So am I fighting an endless battle with this l.r.? i.y.o.
My tank is 6'L but only 18" wide and 19" tall, so it's a little small for a naso and there is too much tiny valonia probably.

[MTB]

I scrubed my rocks with some on it. It is starting to come back after 3mos.

[Froggy]

I fought a battle with Valonia in the past. I manually removed the larger clumps by hand in tank. I also regularly syphoned smaller areas of them out with a larger diameter hose, during water changes and just pried them off of the rock with the end of the hose. My tank is 90-95 % Valonia free now and for some reason they have been slow to return. Not sure of the reason for this, unfortunately.

[Grins]

You're only spreading it by scrubbing them in your tank that way. Some use emerald crabs to control it in addition to the careful removal the others mentioned.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

No, I said i would remove each piece to do this.

[BryanJ]

Have you tried emerald crabs? They have worked for me in the past and the valonia never comes back after they got rid of it.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

No, most people have stated on here that they don't touch their valonia and I'm a little hesitant for my sps polyps.

[Sk8r]

It's a phase a tank goes through. It can be an annual phase. Mine is 3-4 months old in this current incarnation and has quite a bit, but it's beginning to go away. It'll nearly go for a while, possibly come back. TOugher than hair algae, but it can't grow when nothing is nourishing it. Phosphate removal may help. Certainly ro/di is a must.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Well, i've read countless times that it can flourish in the cleanest of saltwater, maybe that is incorrect info. though.
I do run W.M. HC and although the salifert PO4 test is crap it doesn't register on there so it ios below .003. I have no other algae.

[mildew]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/MBurnham/DSCN3259.jpg

If you find something that works, let me now. Last week the best recommendation I got in this forum for this tank was dynamite. Good luck. In my tank (not the one in the picture) I try to pick every little piece as soon as I see it. I like eric's method with the needle and siphon tube. I'm going to try that one for the tiny bubbles that are hard to pry out of the rock.

[Sk8r]

Phosphate won't show on the test because it's not in the water: it's IN the algae, and it will only show when the algae dies or is eaten and poo'ed out---in which case it will be immediately snatched up by another opportunistic algae and incorporated. That's why it's so hard to get rid of. One method is establishing a refugium with a lot of healthy algae growth and clipping off bits to sell your old phosphate to an eager new buyer....that 'exports' it.

Mildew, one of the first problems I see [besides the obvious algae] is that substrate. I don't know whether it's coarse aragonite or crushed coral, but you might consider pulling it in favor of fine-grade aragonite, depth of 4". The reason I zero in on it is that I can name you some critters that would help your problem, but they're going to have trouble functioning in that coarse sand. One that could help some now is a fighting conch. They like to burrow, and that would be hard, but it would have plenty to eat. Some scarlet hermits would help. You're a little closely packed for an urchin. A foxface rabbit would be in high clover in that tank---but must have at least a 50g, spacewise. And of course only use ro/di water.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10304022#post10304022 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Phosphate won't show on the test because it's not in the water: it's IN the algae, and it will only show when the algae dies or is eaten and poo'ed out---in which case it will be immediatey snatched up by another opportunistic algae and incorporated. That's why it's so hard to get rid of. One method is establishing a refugium with a lot of healthy algae growth and clipping off bits to sell your old phosphate to an eager new buyer....that 'exports' it.

I understand the binding of the PO4 in the algae, but since I grow no other algae at all and valonia has been said to grow in pristine water I figure that my PO4 is relatively low. Otherwise my coral (sps only) would show it.
I have actually recently decided after reading many threads that I might remove my chaeto all together. As of two days ago I took all but about 20% of it out. In my BB set-up it started to become a nutrient sink and it was working against me I believe...

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

So back to the point, some feel it grows in cycles and there's nothing I can do about it. And scrubbing it all off outside of my tank will just result in new growing.....am I fighting a losing battle? Do I need to ditch all the l.r. and get new?
I hope not....

[Sk8r]

Eagles, that's pretty close to the truth, that bubble will grow under amazingly good conditions, and that the corals are a good indicator of loose phosphate. The cheato COULD be a problem as you say: you just exported a bunch of whatever that had absorbed. I don't think ditching the lr would help, because the spores would come in with your specimens. I have heard that foxface rabbits may eat the stuff---ask around about this, if you have a big enough tank to accommodate this fish. That, or a horde of mithrax crabs: ONE of them is bound to eat it: mine never did. Only crab I ever had eat a bubble or two was a large scarlet hermit.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10304097#post10304097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
. I don't think ditching the lr would help, because the spores would come in with your specimens.


You mean my sps are holding spores on them currently? That stinks, so even pulling them individually and rinsing them wouldn't solve that?
Or did you maybe not see that I typeds that I would be removing every sps from it's rock before the cleanings?

[Sk8r]

I think maybe triple-rinsing might help [3 distinct baths] ---but, boy! removing them all---that's a real pain! I sure feel for you.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Yeah, it will be a pain to say the least, but I have nowhere near as much as that pic. Maybe 10% of that if not less.
but if it is my only move, then I have to try. :(

[fours2many]

Matt, I had some in my first 75 gallon tank. When we switched tanks to the reef ready tank, I used a screwdriver that was sharpened and popped every piece off the rock, trying not to break any opened, then scrubbed each rock. I dipped in clean saltwater. I then placed the rocks back in the tank. It has been well over a year since I did this and the algae never grew back. I think I might have seen 2 pieces that I sucked up with a hose after popping it off the rock. So for me, scrubbing worked.

It is worth a try. My tank wasn't as bad as mildew's picture, but it was getting there.

Kristin

[Sk8r]

I might point out, too, that creatures that eat bubble have to pop it to eat it. So I do think that popping is probably not quite as bad as advertised. THough I'd avoid it if possible.

[manderx]

Well, i've read countless times that it can flourish in the cleanest of saltwater, maybe that is incorrect info. though.

i don't think it's true at all. i think it's people's egos in the way and can't accept the fact that maybe there's something with their water.

keep your skimmer clean and tweaked, run carbon+purigen, i'm not a fan of GFO these days (the iron in it may be giving a net boost to the algae) and try to get your coralline banging. if your coralline is growing fast enough it'll overgrow and choke out the valonia.

i personally don't worry about the spores. if the conditions aren't right for valonia to grow, they won't take hold and don't matter. if conditions are right for valonia, you are already losing the war so what's a few more spores.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

My corraline is growing super fast due to the stable level of high mag. of ~1320. I also always run Black Diamond carbon and change it out every 3-4 weeks.

Can Purigen be run in a reactor or is it only to be used passively in a media bag?

Also, what nutrients do valonia feed off of?

[Sk8r]

Mmm, that's an interesting note about purigen.

And I have FAR less trouble with algae myself since I established a skimmer twice the size they say I need, plus the refugium.

One other thing I forgot to note: if your lights have expired, that can exacerbate the problem, bad as a depleted ro/di filter.

Definitely interested in the biology of vallonia. What DOES it like?

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10304292#post10304292 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
And I have FAR less trouble with algae myself since I established a skimmer twice the size they say I need, plus the refugium.

One other thing I forgot to note: if your lights have expired, that can exacerbate the problem, bad as a depleted ro/di filter.

Definitely interested in the biology of vallonia. What DOES it like?

My skimmer is very oversized and this is a BB tank with super flow to keep everything is suspension to be removed before breaking down. I don't grow a single strand of H.A. or bryopsis, or anyother algae.

My lamps are all 5/6 weeks used only.

I went through the water testing. Including replacing all filters and membrane. I also tested the PO4 of my fresh RO/DI water and fresh sw batches. But again, noly with my salifert kit.

[Flint&Eric]

if your nutrients are high it is going to grow faster, that's a given...but it does grow in low nutrients. i was running a BB tank with .o3 po4 on a hanna and still had valonia growing....must be my ego.

they can and do grow in low nutrient tanks. just like the red fuzzy "turf" algae that is slowly starting to spread around and is difficult to get rid of.

the best way I have found, is siphonining them out, and or popping them with water changes and emerald crabs. i havent heard of any sps horror stories with emeralds...but i have seen them go after swimming fish. make sure they are small and actually emerald in color...

so yes, be wary of the spores.

the amount of iron released isnt going to spur algae microalgae growth. if your tanks nutrients are down it wont have an effect, IME.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

So keep the battle up against nutrients and *specifically PO4 and growth will subdue? I wonder where the heck the PO4 could be coming from? This tank has no settling and an oversized skimmer and a owner who religiously does 11%-14% weekly w.c.'s? I also 'thoroughly' rinse all prepared foods?

[Flint&Eric]

growth will subdue to an extent, but then it's up to you for manual removal.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

O.k., so I'm going to go ahead and remove all the sps from their rocks and then individually clean each rock. I will start the water making today for the 4 containers I will be using. This should at the very least give me a head start.
I will try slowly increasing the amount of W.M. Phosphar HC, I currently only use ~40% of the recc. amount.


So where are these phosphates coming from i.y.o.? I like to feed heavily for deeper sps coloration and meatier fish, especially since going BB. So this is quite a balancing act. I mean nothing settles in this tank and i have an oversized quality skimmer and repeatedly rinse all foods?

[JPagliai]

I had a real problem with valonia at one time... there is hope. A friend of mine kept telling me how beautiful it looked and to leave it alone. I did, and then it started to spread all over the tank. My tank wasn't horrible, but it was spreading everywhere.

I did exactly what you are suggesting. I scrubbed the dickens out of my live rock with a tooth brush and picked out the embedded pieces with a pair of fine-tipped forceps. I rinsed each piece in freshwater to rinse away the spores (not long enough to kill anything). The pieces that had coral or clams attached got a clean saltwater bath. I returned each piece to the main tank and added an emerald crab. He found all the bits and pieces remaining in the live rock after the process. It's been 4 years now and it's still gone.

[Sk8r]

I think you're being more virtuous about the po4 situation than most anyone---except the 'feed heavily' part, but I get the sense you're no novice and your 'feed heavily' may be something on the side of cautious, so I'm puzzled. The only other phosphate source I could think of would be something IN the rock...I had a very live rock once turn out to be a chunk of tar/hydrocarbon of some sort, with the distinct aroma of petroleum...size of your fist. It had been sold as part of a coral specimen, and gradually lost some of its coating. I can't imagine what kind of rock would actually contain phosphate, but then I'm famously no chemist. I don't recall it in the formula for limestone, granite or basalt. Might shale, which is layered river sediment? Inviting better information, here.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

This is all two types of l.r.(90% from same LFS) I use no base rock or other such type of dead base rock.
-marshall isl.(majority of l.r.)
-tonga branch