Water in Diesel ?

[vonodie1]

Okay, I have a serious question here.

Hubby went to McAllen, TX, last Thursday. He fueled up (diesel) 3 times that day. Once at around 9:30 am, #2 at around 5:00 pm, then the 3rd time was at 7:14 pm.; he then drove until 10:00 pm to the motel he was staying at that night. Johnny said that his truck sounded rough when he arrived at the motel, but didn't think anything of it.

Friday morning he goes out to try and start it and it cranks but will not start. (he thinks that it is the fuel filter and changes it -based on a consensus of a few people) Once primed up and started it blows black smoke out of the back end-diesel so that is expected. Then it blows black smoke out the front end and revs up and he can't get it to shut down. The black smoke in the front could be attributed to oil blowing out of the oil filter-who knows.

Anyway-I had to find someone with a truck and trailer (boss with friends truck and trailer) to drive over 500 miles to pick him and his truck and bring him home.

Monday they take it to the Dodge dealership. Today we find out that he has water in the fuel and at the very least the injection system will have to be replaced! (ball park from service tech is 6,000) maybe have to replace turbo system and long block-SOOOOO it could end up being a whole engine replacement and maybe tranny too?!

I called my agent this morning to start a claim, but she was out of the office until around 4:30. She calls me then to tell me she doesn't know how or what part of insurance this is covered under... (dodge dealer informs us this morning to call insurance co. to send adjuster that it should be covered as they have had to replace 3-4 recently). Therefore, I call the 800 # and start the dang claim myself.

I also called the holdings company of the last place that he received fuel. She asked if I filed a report with that store....I tell her no cause I don't live anywhere near there and there is no phone number on my receipt. I fax a copy of my receipt to her and they are going to test the fuel, but my QUESTION is who is the state agency to call to inform them to test it also, so that IF I run into problems with either insurance OR company store...?

I do not have 12 grand laying around to pay for this out of my pocket. I also owe way too much on this vehicle to pay for a new engine.

What would you do? I have full coverage insurance-won't they pay up and go after the place we bought the fuel? (only 3 choices for the day)

[Satori]

Sorry to hear that. When you first described it in the other thread, my first thought was unleaded gas in the fuel, but water is worse. I hope your insurance will pay, good luck.

[vonodie1]

It is funny that you mention that, boss tried to pull that on him when he was looking at the receipts today. I didn't get a look at Johnny's face, but trust me when I tell you he does not make that mistake. (I picked up the wrong hose once and he literally slapped my arms away from the truck and said to pay attention to what I was doing!)

All of his receipts say 'diesel'. It is a good thing that we are in the habit of keeping all of our receipts now a days!

Johnny is doing some looking on the net for what all comp covers and I looked at our policy and am not sure where it would fall. Could if fall under mischief and vandalism? cause if it does my deductible is on $25.00 for those! ;) I guess it could fall under storms-as the storms are what probably made the tanks fill with water!

We will be in limbo at least until Thursday when we here from insurance company...

[Misled]

Ok Stacy this is just too weird. At my building I have a 75 kw diesel generator. On Mondays it runs a test run for about a half hour. About 15 mins in yesterday it started blowing White smoke and running rough. Sure enough, the same as your's, the injector pump. For a new one for mine, if one was available,( it's 30 years old), the price for a new pump alone it ran around 5000. They had to pull my pump today and put a rental generator in till it gets back from being rebuilt. I understand why your turbo may have to be worked on, but I'm not getting the tranny. Let us know about this!!!

[vonodie1]

Wow, that is weird! ;)

I don't know about the tranny myself, but if they want to claim it out on insurance....well I am not going to say no- as long as insurance covers it! I am not sure if power train warranty is any good anymore as he has almost 70,000 miles on it. I did inform Johnny that once this is done he is buying an after market extended warranty on this truck and on my car!!!

I did find a site that talks about contaminated diesel. Here is what is asked and answered.


You are here: Experts > Autos > Auto Insurance > Auto Insurance Claims > Contaiminated diesel fuel

Topic: Auto Insurance Claims

Expert: webfoot
Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Contaiminated diesel fuel

Question
I bought some diesel fuel contaminated with water that wiped out my fuel pump, how will my comprehensive insurance cover this?

Answer
As long as a mechanic can show that this water was the cause of failure to your injection pump, your comprehensive insurance should cover this, less your deductible. Then, your insurance company will go after the gas station where you purchased your fuel through a process called subrogation. If they are able to successfully collect for the damages, they will then refund the deductible that you have paid.

Good luck!
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Auto-Insurance-Claims-2055/Contaiminated-diesel-fuel.htm

If that is true...Well, I feel a whole lot better now.

*edit* Johnny just told me he has about 65,000 miles on it, so the tranny would fall under the 7/70,000 mile powertrain warranty IF it too needs to be replaced. :D

[Misled]

That sounds real good for you!!!!!

[Coral Dilema]

Tranny needing to be replaced because of water in the fuel is complete [not allowed to use that word here] The injectors I can see, the complete injector system? I find that a bit hard to believe but im not an expert on diesels. I guess it would probalby help to know if its a true diesel engine or a conversion package. Replacing the block sounds fishy too. Just because of a little water? something doesnt sound right there. My dad bought an F-250 diesel in 1983 (it still runs strong) and another in 1996 because the body on the 1983 was wearing out. We have done all of the work on them ourselves, except for 1 transfer case replacement that had to be done at a shop. Diesel engines can be finicky at times, but they are tough as nails. A diesel engine doesnt really break in good until about 150k miles. The 1983 has over 500k on it and still runs like the day it was new. The most dangerous thing about a diesel is getting in an environment where it is pulling in fuel through the intake manifold, such as if the vehicle were in the middle of a natural gas leak. This was the first thing I thought of when you said black smoke out of the front of the engine and it revved up high on its own.

Let us know what happens with the insurance and what all they hae to replace. I still just cant see replacing a transmission because of an engine problem, that sounds like they are trying to rip you off.

[vonodie1]

I honestly don't know what is up with the tranny. (to me is has always shifted hard, but I don't know much about diesel engines or heavy duty trannys either) This is our first ever diesel engine. (also, IF the tranny needs to be replaced it SHOULD actually fall under the powertrain warranty so Dodge will eat that not my insurance, me, or the store where the fuel was purchased-thank goodness).

The said vehicle is a 2006 Dodge 2500 MegaCab-purchased in October 2005 and has around 65,000 miles on it. It has a cummins engine in it.

Trust me-whatever this Dodge dealership ends up doing....ALL that I am going to pay is my $500 deductible...If that won't cover it I ain't paying for it! :D

It is really hard to find a 'good' dealership around here. My first impression of the other local Dodge dealership stunk-which is why we took it to the one we did.

My first impression of the ONLY Cadillac dealership around here stinks-so I am not sure what I am going to do when my car needs serviced again. I specifically asked them to check something that SHOULD be standard with an oil change and I KNOW for a fact that they didn't do it! (I would have and tried to check it myself, but could not get the cap off to do so).

[vonodie1]

Just a small update... I called the 800# to check status this morning and because yesterday was a holiday I may be waiting another 24-48 hours for the adjuster to call me. The lady I spoke with was very nice and said she would see if she could rush the processing part to get it to the adjuster ASAP.

I just called back and it has been assigned to an adjuster and an internal claims rep. (so hopefully I will hear from this adjuster tomorrow)

I also asked this morning how hard it was to change agents? She gave me a number to one that isn't too far away and I called them and need to fax them my decking sheets then they will send me a form to sign and it is done! Anything to get away from this one.

Trust me I have to deal with HER at work on a claim from a year ago the 13th...still awaiting settlement on that one and I didn't start here until December 1. She is about the ditziest person around and IF her employees or even herself is/are not smart enough to tell me to call the 800# because she won't be there until 4- then for her to call me at 4:30 to tell me she doesn't know what part of my insurance would pay for this....I want an agent who is willing to help me out-not tell me they don't know what they are doing!!!!! (I know it should have dawned on me to call the 800#, but this is the very first time I have ever had to make a claim on insurance-so I had a brain fart so to speak) ;)

[gtrestoration]

I got 55,000 miles on my first transmission.

SteveU

[Fat Man]

I got about 75,000 on the transmission in My F250SD. I tow a fifth wheel so that put s some extra strain on the tranny. I understand your hubby delivers boats, how big are they?

[vonodie1]

The biggest boat that he delivers weighs approximately (I am guessing cause I don't have a flyer in front of me) 2100 lbs and is 25' long.

He has never taken more than 2 boats at a time and is usually an 18' and a 20' (our biggest sellers). I think the 18 weighs about 790 lbs. and the 20' somewhere in the neighborhood of 990 lbs.

*note I could be way off on the weights, but Johnny is the one who told me what he thought the weight of the 25 is.

He does have the heavy duty tranny, though and has never gone over on towing capacity.

I got a call from my 'agent'. I think that she was shocked that 'I' actually called in my claim! It is my understanding from her that the adjuster is supposed to go look at the truck tomorrow morning. YAY

The agent wanted me to fax her copies of the receipts of the 3 places that Johnny filled up that day...so I did.

[The Grim Reefer]

Run, don't walk to an honest dealership. Water in the diesel COULD kill the injectors and the pump because the fuel actually works as a lubricant for them. But the trans and Turbo, gotta call BS on that.

Just a guess but I would say the hubby got a bad dose of fuel and when the truck sat overnight it allowed the water to all sink to the bottom of the tank (where the fuel pump pick up is) so once he started it there was nearly all water in the fuel making it to the engine.

Hope the gas station owns up to the fuel problem. If it was them they likely have several others with the same problem.

[Muttling]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10279835#post10279835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Run, don't walk to an honest dealership. Water in the diesel COULD kill the injectors and the pump because the fuel actually works as a lubricant for them. But the trans and Turbo, gotta call BS on that.




Ditto to that!!!!!

[MC Lighting]

well I own a 2001 Dodge Cummins with 170k on it and an 05 with 68k on it and I an heavily involved with the Turbo Diesel Refister not to mention I worked for a Dodge dealer as their IT guy so a few things, one the transmission has nothing to do with anything short and simple if it is not drivable I would like to know how they diagnosed this... Second water in fuel is a serious issue did the water in fuel light ever come on? Smoke out of the front of the engine? what you describe is a runaway condition if say he blew an oil seal in the turbo shaft and it was sucking in oil then this would occur and the govenor has not control over engine rpm this WILL in almost all cases result in a failed engine as they can go well into the 5k rpm range... Again though water in the fuel is not going to cause this and engine runaways on the dodge Cummins is very rare unless you are running propane injection or methonaol injection with a stuck solenoid. If it is water in fuel for the pump and injectors I would think insurance would most certainly pay for it and they should go after the fuel station I will tell you right now though they will call for an investigation and go pull test samples from the station it is a serious offense for them to have water in the diesel. 65,000 miles is not very much towing or not something is not quite right here the 48re transmission does not have the same faults the 47re did in earlier years and should not be having any issues like this there is more to this and you need to find out what.

[Archmagev]

You need a shop that isn't just trying to rip you off. The pump I can see being damaged, but honestly, with as short a run with water in the fuel, I can't see any serious injector damage. The biggest thing is flushing all the old fuel out of the system (IME about $250 from an honest shop). At that point I'd really refuel, (your intake line may have a bleed valve on it which will need to be depressed to let the excess air out while someone is cranking the engine. Once fuel starts through the valve, let go, then cycle the plugs again) and see if you can get it started again. I used to manage truck fleets and invariably had fuel (unleaded or water) issues ALOT...very rarely is there any serious damage. It can happen, just not too likely.
Like the other posters said...Trans and Turbo? Complete BS

[vonodie1]

I have a small problem with that....I don't trust the other one that is close by either!

They are not going to be pulling the head until the adjuster looks at it tomorrow.

I think the only reason the tranny was even mentioned as possibly needing replaced is of because of when the engine raced to 7000+ rpms before he could get it shut down after changing the fuel filter and priming and starting up. (thought I mentioned this, but maybe not).

I don't know anything about diesel engines. Give me a chevy and I can tell you just about anything as I have sat and watched some put together from the block up.

Either way...insurance will deal with the engine (and subrogate the claim out to the place with the bad fuel if they can prove it) and warranty would/should deal with the tranny (if needed).

By the way-in the state of Texas for fuel (gas or diesel) complaints you call the Dept. of Agriculture (!?!?!) and then they route you to some internal dept. I have a call into them, but haven't heard back yet. I first tried the Railroad Commission-they directed me to dept. of ag.

[vonodie1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10279947#post10279947 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Archmagev
You need a shop that isn't just trying to rip you off. The pump I can see being damaged, but honestly, with as short a run with water in the fuel, I can't see any serious injector damage. The biggest thing is flushing all the old fuel out of the system (IME about $250 from an honest shop). At that point I'd really refuel, (your intake line may have a bleed valve on it which will need to be depressed to let the excess air out while someone is cranking the engine. Once fuel starts through the valve, let go, then cycle the plugs again) and see if you can get it started again. I used to manage truck fleets and invariably had fuel (unleaded or water) issues ALOT...very rarely is there any serious damage. It can happen, just not too likely.
Like the other posters said...Trans and Turbo? Complete BS

I don't know if I call driving for 3 hours being a short run with water in the fuel. He drove from 7:15 until 10 with his last fuel stop to the motel.

The service tech told us that at least one of his injectors is stuck wide open.

(as for tranny- I understand what ya'll are saying, but if it happens to need to be replace and NOT because of water in fuel it IS covered under warranty- so moot point.) Daimler Chrysler wont pay to replace unless it needs it and I ain't letting them replace it UNLESS Daimler Chrysler pays for it! The engine on the other hand...Insurance should pay to repair whatever damage was caused by water being in the diesel and then they will go after one, two, or all three of the places that Johnny fueled up that day. My guess is that it would just be the last place he filled up at.

[Michael L.]

My dad works on Cummins diesel engines all the time on boats, and trust me, a little water will not take them down. We've had customers who have salt water in the fuel tanks and as long as you don't crank the engine and try to restart it, no serious damage will occur (unless it start corroding).

Find someone who won't rip you off immediately. Water in a fuel tank and in the engine can and will cause corrosion if it has salt in it.

[vonodie1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10279908#post10279908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MC Lighting
well I own a 2001 Dodge Cummins with 170k on it and an 05 with 68k on it and I an heavily involved with the Turbo Diesel Refister not to mention I worked for a Dodge dealer as their IT guy so a few things, one the transmission has nothing to do with anything short and simple if it is not drivable I would like to know how they diagnosed this... Second water in fuel is a serious issue did the water in fuel light ever come on? Smoke out of the front of the engine? what you describe is a runaway condition if say he blew an oil seal in the turbo shaft and it was sucking in oil then this would occur and the govenor has not control over engine rpm this WILL in almost all cases result in a failed engine as they can go well into the 5k rpm range... Again though water in the fuel is not going to cause this and engine runaways on the dodge Cummins is very rare unless you are running propane injection or methonaol injection with a stuck solenoid. If it is water in fuel for the pump and injectors I would think insurance would most certainly pay for it and they should go after the fuel station I will tell you right now though they will call for an investigation and go pull test samples from the station it is a serious offense for them to have water in the diesel. 65,000 miles is not very much towing or not something is not quite right here the 48re transmission does not have the same faults the 47re did in earlier years and should not be having any issues like this there is more to this and you need to find out what.

I am sorry I totally missed your post... I am guessing here, but at the moment it isn't drivable because it wouldn't start. Again, just guessing here, but it wouldn't start because of the water in the diesel. (I wasn't there)

Hubby said NO lights ever came on and IF they had he would have checked to find out what they were! (we are paranoid that way-as I had dummy lights on a car one time my dad told me to ignore and my engine blew...that same car later on after rebuilding caught on fire- so we definitely pay attention to lights and guages)

He did blow some seal as he said oil was on the ground around the oil filter or close by...The runaway thing...well he said he could not get it to shut down during all of this and the rpms went to 7 grand-so I guess that explains this. The engine and everything on this truck minus the rhino bedliner is stock.

I appreciate everyones input. I am learning a ton from you guys!

***I already have a call into the state about this. I have even called to holdings company for this convenience store to let them know. BUT having said that it is NOT unheard of for water to get into the fuel tanks (although- shouldn't happen) during heavy bouts of rain- and we have had TONS of rain all over the state of Texas. flooding going on all over. My only fear is that today being a week since it has happened that they may have already got another load of fuel and there will be no way to prove it.

I am not sure what to say about taking it someplace where I won't get ripped off because I am not paying anything out of my pocket except my deductible no matter how this turns out!

I have only lived here since the day before Thanksgiving and have not needed anything other than regular maintenance-so I KNOW of NO ONE who works on vehicles other than dealerships.

[The Grim Reefer]

What did hubby prime it with? That may have led to some of the problem. If he sucked the turbo seal and it ran to 7 grand I could see turbo, I could see injectors and maybe even block but not trans.

[vonodie1]

He was told by a mechanic to turn the switch to on (but don't start) for 25 seconds then back off. do that twice and try to start it. And that is what he did.

[Muttling]

With the new computers on the vehicles and the sensors, the water could have caused the over rev by crapping up a sensor but the computer should have shut down the throttle when it red lined.

This sounds like a great discussion for The Car Guys on NPR. They're a couple of really sharp mechanics who do a funny as crap talk show on National Public Radio. They're a total hoot but they also give a lot of good advice and answers. Here's a link to their web site if you want to try calling in, I'm sure they'd love to hear this story.

(One note of warning, they generally have a little sarcastic humor to throw in the mix so listen to the first 30 minutes of the show before calling in if you haven't heard them previously just so you'll know what to expect.)

Here's a link to their web site.....

http://www.cartalk.com/

[MC Lighting]

also make sure that if you have not already you search around on Turbo Diesel Register www.tdr1.com as there is a lot of good info and good poeple I am a member there as well.

[dc]

Well I can't be of any help, but I'm sorry you're having all this bad luck.

[dkh0331]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/201730343.gif

[Coral Dilema]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10280930#post10280930 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Muttling
With the new computers on the vehicles and the sensors, the water could have caused the over rev by crapping up a sensor but the computer should have shut down the throttle when it red lined.



If the engine were drawing in 'fuel' through the air intake, shutting down the throttle would do nothing.

Diesel engines operate differently than gasoline engines. In a gasoline engine, a spark ignites the fuel causing combustion. When you turn the engine off, it cuts off the spark plugs preventing ignition.

Diesel engines use heat and compression (700-800 PSI vs 300-400 PSI in a gasoline engine) to ignite the fuel. When you turn the key off in a diesel engine, it cuts the fuel supply to stop ignition. If the engine is pulling in fuel through the air intake system,(natural gas leak or propane or other situation) it will continute to run and will runaway, revving out of control until either the source of fuel is removed, or the engine literally flys apart. If this is what happened, I can understand why you may need a new engine block, but still, the tranny being bad because of this is bs.

[BigSkyBart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10282421#post10282421 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dkh0331
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/201730343.gif


David,
I saved this one, just for you

[dkh0331]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10282755#post10282755 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BigSkyBart
David,
I saved this one, just for you

Danke Schoen!

[Muttling]

Bump....What's the latest?

[vonodie1]

The assigned adjuster didn't get noticed until Friday afternoon. He was going to go look at later in the afternoon.

I called the assigned insurance claims lady...she said I won't know anything until probably Wednesday.

I am really frustrated. I didn't think a claim should take this long, but have no idea.

I have to keep my cool though....and they better pay up OR I am going to be doing some major searching on this, because everything I have found out shows that with full coverage they should pay as long as the mechanic can prove water in tank.

Now, having said that...I am sure that they will pay (sure do hope so). I am still having no luck getting a hold of the state people to file a fuel complaint.

I am just really frustrated that this process is taking so long.

[vonodie1]

As Stacy's World Turns.......

I have not spoken with my internal claims person yet (that's tomorrow).

I did speak with my soon to be agent yesterday afternoon....he says he would be very surprised IF my insurance would pay up!

FINALLY today....I get a call back from the state complaint people. Get this, they're name is the Internal Revenue Service - fuel complaint division. NOT GOOD NEWS... they can't do anything cause it took them so long to get back with me. He too, seems to think that my insurance will NOT pay. He directed me to start a complaint with the Attorney Generals office-I have started that paperwork, and will finish it tomorrow.

On a side note...I called the store itself and asked to speak with the Manager and got the Asst. Manager- who when asked if they have had any complaints of engine damages due to water in the fuel in the last two weeks -told me that she can't release that information and that the Manager Kim would be at work in the morning. What are you thinking???? I am thinking I will definitely be giving Kim a call in the morning!

I spoke with the holdings co. and she said they need a sample of the diesel (okay, but I don't think I can actually ship that, so not sure HOW I am supposed to get that to her) and also needs to know exactly what the mechanic says in wrong with the vehicle. She was going to call the dealership, but I have no idea IF she actually did or not.

This is a really frustrating merry go round and I want OFF!

[Muttling]

Call up UPS and ask them about shipping details. They've got procedures for doing such things and it's really not a big deal. Specifically ask if there is a quantity that small enough so that you won't be charged a hazardous materials shipping fee.

Call up the mechanic at the shop and tell them you need a sample. Be SURE to discuss how to get it out of the BOTTOM of the fuel tank. That fuel has been sitting long enough for the water and diesel to have seperated by now. If you pull the sample off the top of the tank, you're not going to get an accurate test result.

Put the sample in a mason jar and seal it tightly. Put sticker or something on the sample clearly describing what it is, who it's from, and how to contact you. Then cut up a card board box and wrap the card board around the jar, taping it in place. Finally put it in a box for shipping with plenty of news papers.

Be sure to require signature upon delivery so you have verification they recieved.

You will also want to talk to them again to get the exact details of where and who to send it to, as well as the time frame for them getting results back to you.

[vonodie1]

Okay new information.... Johnny just spoke with the Dodge dealership Service Dept. Mgr. and Johnny kind of set him up here to get an honest answer. Johnny asked with water in the diesel how far should he have been able to go before the sensor should go off??? the answer from mgr.... 25-30 miles- Johnny made it about 150 miles and NO sensor EVER went off!!!!

The lady with the holdings co. DID call and they are trying to find someone local to get/give the sample. Johnny said they came to this conclusion from the bowl?

I just called another dealership and was informed that small amount of water will not trip sensor...large amount will. This guys says comprehensive insurance should pay and I again, but no one else seems to.

This is an excerpt from the Texas Dept. of Insurance website...http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/consumer/cb020.html

6. Comprehensive (Physical Damage Other than Collision) Coverage
Pays: The cost of replacing or repairing your car if it is stolen or damaged by fire, vandalism, hail, or another cause other than collision. Comprehensive coverage also pays for a rental car or other temporary transportation if your car is stolen. Your policy won't pay for an auto theft unless you report it to the police. Payment is limited to your car's actual cash value, minus your deductible.

I will find out more tomorrow.

[MC Lighting]

from the bowl usually means from the bottom of the water/fuel seperator in which case if there is a significant amount of water can be argued with the service manager should have tripped the water in fuel sensor...

[Muttling]

On the subject of what the insurance will cover, you might want to contact the Texas Department of Insurance. Here's a web site that might help you get some definitive answers on what is and is not covered:

http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/consumer/cb003.html

[vonodie1]

I actually did call the consumer line of the Texas Dept. of Insurance...the lady I got said that it would depend on what 'my' policy states as all of them are different. IF my insurance doesn't pay THEN I can file a complaint with the Dept. of Insurance and they will do whatever they do...

In the state of Texas, it is my understanding, that if my insurance company decides not to pay out of bad faith that I can sue for triple damages.

What is the point of having full coverage insurance IF they don't pay up when you need them to? I mean, you pay in and pay in and pay in- and when you ask them for help.....IF what I end up with is a nope-not paying- well, it almost isn't worth it except I am required to carry it. I will involve my lien holder if my insurance won't pay out or even if they do I will inform them about it, but I want to know what the insurance does first.

I am also curious as to what the manager of the store will say in the morning.

I just don't get it...I don't think I have known ANYbody who has had to wait this long on a claim assessment on their auto.

[vonodie1]

Okay Mut- since you are helping me out the most here...I got a question for you (or anyone else who can help)?

Looking at my 'quick reference' auto policy it is broken down into 7 different sections as follows:

Part A: Liability Coverage

Part B1: Medical Payments Coverage

Part B2: Personal Injury Coverage

Part C: Uninsured/Underinsured Motorists Coverage

Part D: Coverage for Damage to Your Auto

Part E: Duties after an Accident of Loss

Part F: General Provisions

My question to you is what section would you look in for water in fuel damage?

[Muttling]

You're not going to find something that specifically states water in the fuel damage is covered. What you're looking for is the clause that says something to the effect of "replacing or repairing your car if it is stolen or damaged by ....... cause other than collision." I'm guessing Parts D, E, and F are the most likely ones to address your situation.

Once you find that, you need to go digging through the not covered statements and see if there's something in there that would let them weasel out of fuel in the water.

Keep in mind, insurance companies don't like open ended coverage but the regulatory agencies don't like them weaseling out of things so these policies are a big game of cat n mouse.

Unfortunately, this is a contract and it's written by attorneys for attorneys so it can be quite difficult to decipher. If you have a scanner and want to send me a PDF of your policy, I'd be happy to look at it. Batguano and Nina would also be excellent resources to tap for this question as they are actual professionals in the legal business. (As an engineer who's had to deal with it frequently, I consider myself to be a poorly educated amatuer.)

[The Grim Reefer]

If someone had maliciously (SP?) dumped water into your fuel tank I could see insurance covering this.

If the mechanic has found water in the fuel then their has got to be others who have the same problem so hopefully the station will pay up.

[vonodie1]

That is what I thought... In that case they probably (unfortunately) do have a way out. darnit BUT no where in here is it mentioned about comprehensive coverage it only mentions collision under Part D.

Part D. - A. We will pay for direct and accidental loss to your covered auto, including its equipment less any applicable deductible shown in the Declarations. However, we will pay for loss caused by collision only if the Declarations indicate that Collision Coverage is provided.

B. "Collision" means the upset, or collision with another object of your covered auto. However, loss caused by the following are not considered 'collision':
1. Missiles or falling objects; 2. Fire
3. Theft or larceny 4. Explosion or earthquake
5. Windstorm 6. Hail, water, or flood
7. Malicious mischief or vandalism 8. Riot or civil commotion
9. Contact with bird or animal; or 10. Breakage of Glass

From that section it goes to transportation expenses and then to exclusion section.

Exclusions....We will not pay for:

2. Damage due and confined to:

a. wear and tear;
b. freezing;
c. mechanical or electrical breakdown or failure; or
d. road damage to tires.
This exclusion (2.) does not apply if the damage results from the total theft of your covered vehicle.

as a side note: The two dealerships that I have spoken to have both said that comprehensive part of insurance should cover this. Also, the dealership that the vehicle is at has also stated that they have encountered 4 other vehicles with water in their fuel and insurance has paid up. (I just wish I knew who their carriers were!!!!)

Also: Is this actually considered damage or is it considered a loss?

Oh and Grim, I agree, but tomorrow if I can't get the Manager to tell me IF others have been reported and she gives me the same statement of the Asst. Manager (I can not release that type of information- or whatever it was she said) then where does that leave me other than waiting and waiting on the Holdings Company to determine IF they are going to pay. How long will I have to wait? It has already been a week.

[The Grim Reefer]

If the station is giving you the runaround try the city attorny's office. If nothing else they could maybe direct you to the right people. You might have to resort to running an add in the paper looking for other victims. All it takes is 2 people with the same problem to make a strong case.

[vonodie1]

The station is on the Interstate- so that may be difficult to run ad in paper. (It is probably around 300 miles or so away from where I live.)

keep reminding me - DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF- IT'S ALL SMALL!!!!!!

If I don't hear what I hope to hear from my insurance company tomorrow- then we will start filing a complaint with the Dept. of Insurance to do their investigation. I have already started filling out paperwork for a complaint with the Attorney General -on the advice of the diesel complaint dept-since it is too late for them to test the tank.

I do sincerely hope that the store/holdings co. steps up to the plate and does what is right and proper, but again- it is difficult doing things long distance and the not knowing what their procedures are and such.

[The Grim Reefer]

If it was a truck stop you might be able to ask around at truck repair places in the area the station is located in. A couple of big rigs being put down cause of bad fuel would probably be a well known event.

[vonodie1]

Sending up top so easier to find when updating later today! ;)

Looking more promising, but want confirmation first!!!

[Muttling]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[vonodie1]

Thanks Mutt- it has 'almost' paid off! (will have once the truck in back in my possession.)

I called the convenience store this morning and spoke with the manager...she told me that yes they have had people call in, but they had their tanks tested and found no water. I let her take down my info to turn in to the head office. (even though, I started with them)

I just got off the phone with the holdings corp. that owns the convenience store and they had just spoken with the dealership to okay fixing the truck based on the estimate. (I haven't seen this estimate yet-they are supposed to be faxing to me). YAY! Talk about relief. They also asked about towing fees. I told them just fuel and for the blow out; if I can gather the receipts cause we borrowed a friends vehicle and trailer. I am really grateful that they have stepped up here.

Now, I guess I need to stop my claim on my insurance...wonder how this is going to affect my rates????!!!!

I am so relieved...maybe that is my faxed estimate coming in.
Whew what a sign of relief.

Okay, that was my estimate.. OMG-I could never have been able to pay for this all in one whack.

Transfer pump, fuel pail, connector tubes, injectors, injector pump. fuel filter, system flush.......****this will repair fuel system. It is still unknown if there is any engine damage***** (the fax says)
Total labor $1000.00
Total Parts 9811.50
Tax 809.45
Estimate total: $11,620.95
Okay by Phone with Managers initials.

[gtrestoration]

Hopefully this holds up for you. I'd be a little concerned with the unknown damage to the engine. My concern is that by authorizing this they feel released from futher liability. As far as your insurance carrier covering it, from the start that sounded like a real longshot as I'm sure they'd have words in place to protect themselves.

SteveU

[MC Lighting]

over 11k just for the fuel system??? Uh somthing is really not right here you can buy an entire long block ready to go from Cummins for about that...

[vonodie1]

It is our understanding that a whole new engine runs about 20-25 grand.

I listed each item that is being replaced above...I did not list individual prices, but the 2 most expensive on the list are Injectors at 3442.80 and the Injector pump at 4838.75.

and from what was explained to me from the other dodge dealers that I spoke with...this is right on par.

[crp]

:wave:

Slow pokes :lol:

[jpfelix]

i was saving it for you.

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10320403#post10320403 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vonodie1
It is our understanding that a whole new engine runs about 20-25 grand.




Let me guess, the dodge dealer told you that

You can get a rebuilt drop in 5.9 for less than 9 grand as long as your current block is not blown apart, which it obviously isn't.

I thought the tranny and the turbo were dust too? I guess when the dealer has to talk to a insurance co who I am sure deals with this stuff on a daily basis they put the B.S. on hold.

Anyway congrats on the station doing the right thing.

[vonodie1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10321069#post10321069 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Let me guess, the dodge dealer told you that

You can get a rebuilt drop in 5.9 for less than 9 grand as long as your current block is not blown apart, which it obviously isn't.

I thought the tranny and the turbo were dust too? I guess when the dealer has to talk to a insurance co who I am sure deals with this stuff on a daily basis they put the B.S. on hold.

Anyway congrats on the station doing the right thing.

Yes, a dodge dealer told us this-not necessarily the one where the vehicle is at either. The said vehicle that is having the problems IS at a dodge dealership and they will be the ones replacing the parts with NEW ones, if they are needed.

They are only concerned with fuel system right now, and until they got word that someone OTHER than ME was paying for this they were NOT going to delve further in to see IF anything else was/is wrong; so tranny and turbo are still IFFY at this moment.

IF there is a problem with the tranny-it is/will be covered under DODGE WARRANTY- not my problem-they can replace it if they want to on their dime not mine.

Turbo- don't know yet and we will find out if there are any other problems as they dig deeper into this for the repairs! Again...not my dime, so as long as it gets fixed properly the first time around...I am okay with that.

We really are talking apples and oranges here- can't really compare properly as we all live in different parts of the country. I can tell you that if I lived closer to the DFW area prices would be less, but I don't I am here in West Texas and all of the dodge dealers in MY area ARE comparable to each other. I've got slim pickins here.

Either way...The vehicle is at a dodge dealership and that is where it is staying until it is repaired properly and to my satisfaction. I would not trust it at a mere mechanic shop-not sure I even trust it at a dealership, but at least it is at a dealership...I can rest easy that IF I have a problem with any of these repairs down the road, I am limited in where I can take it only by where a dodge dealership is located, for the most part.

[The Grim Reefer]

Its a damn shame you couldn't just have them get a rebuilt engine and be done with it. Less time, better for you and probably less money for the insurance company BUT, you know how those insurance companies work. (My wife works for one)

[MC Lighting]

ok over 3k for injectors uh yeah can we say price gouging? I can get a set of factory bosch injectors including getting them modded for more horse power for just over 1k I worked for a Dodge dealership and I don't care if you are in Alaska that is insanity if it were the insurance paying this they would consider totalling the truck at those prices 25k for a engine NOT! I think a brand new from Cummins in the crate is less than 15k with EVERYTHING Turbo, fuel system, computer etc. Please make sure when this is over to post that dealerships name so we can all avoid it with a 10 mile pole I cannot believe the rip off. I am glad for you that its getting fixed but my oh my...

[Muttling]

I'm with lighting, this is easily hitting total out numbers for the cost to repair. I would suggest calling up the holding company and asking them about just totalling it out instead of repairing the fuel system then worrying about the engine itself.

I'm not sure that they'll go for it, but it might be worth a shot.





On a side note, don't buy new or recently used for your next vehicles. Get an older model that will get the job done and avoid a $20K plus vehicle for a working truck.

[vonodie1]

I want you guys to know that I appreciate your points of view.

I can not allow them, nor will Dodge put rebuilt anything on this engine. The engine has a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty- it was purchased at the end of Oct. 2005- so I have a lot of warranty left. new has to go on for the warranty to stay good.

Now...because you guys mentioned the words price gouging....this morning I made 3 phone calls to 3 different dealers. 1 in Oklahoma, one in Ft. Worth and the one down south where we bought it. I will tell you that I asked for parts prices only and nothing else...
ALL, let me repeat that ALL of the dealers were within a $1-200.00 difference on each item (injector and injector pump). I do not call that price gouging- do you?

Ft. Worth dealer is about 200 miles away...Oklahoma dealer about 350 miles away and the one down south is almost 500 miles away.

Now, I can not, nor do I think my lien holder would ALLOW them to total my vehicle.

Had the water in fuel not happened-we wouldn't even be having this conversation about totalling my vehicle. We have NEVER had any problems with any of our vehicles that were purchased brand new- until now this water in the fuel.

[The Grim Reefer]

Sounds like general dealer price gouging. As long as the thing is under warranty you are stuck with the dealers. You can get better parts for less money but it would void your warranty, can't do that. I have a powerstoke which tend to need injectors at a little over 100,000 miles from what I've read. There is a mod that can be done that will make the injectors last a lot longer but it voids the warranty so I gotta wait.

[MC Lighting]

actually these new trucks are very reliable being I own 2 of them with a lot of miles with all hard work and their reliability is getting better with new technology... but there are certain things that diesels do not like water in the fuel being one and unfortunatly there are those shops out there like this one taking an oportunity to take someone for a ride areally long deeep ride....

<a href=showthread.php?

s=&postid=10323256#post10323256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Muttling
I'm with lighting, this is easily hitting total out numbers for the cost to repair. I would suggest calling up the holding company and asking them about just totalling it out instead of repairing the fuel system then worrying about the engine itself.

I'm not sure that they'll go for it, but it might be worth a shot.





On a side note, don't buy new or recently used for your next vehicles. Get an older model that will get the job done and avoid a $20K plus vehicle for a working truck.

[d-town tony]

For dealership work and all the politics/policies they have to go through, that's probably the regular rate.

Do they have regular Cummins brand service centers in your area?