Disappearing Act

[LazyD]

So, my girlfriend has a 12 gallon nano, over the last 5-6 months we have lost a number of fish and inverts... Here is a list of the following that have seemed to magically disapear, no traces, no remains, etc.

Dragon Goby
Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
Numerous Snails (Emptied out)
Yellow Watchman Goby
Firefish
Yellow Clown Goby(He was one of the original fish we got, he had such a personality)
Blue Chromis

It usually happens within the 1st week we get these critters, it seems like we will see them for a day or up to 4 days, then poof, vanish...

Ive gotten to thinking it may be a mantis shrimp but I dont want to jump to any conclusions...

I have heard a clicking against the glass, however, I have witnessed a turbo snail having a "siezure" and what looks like knocking his shell against the glass, so im not sure what to make of that...

Needless to say, this is getting very old and quiet frustrating. The tank is suffering because we cant seem to keep any amount of animals alive in there. At this point, I think we are down to a false percula clown, who was the original fish in that tank.

It seems like the missing critters are mainly bottom dwellers, which again leads me to believe something that hangs out in the live rock like a mantis....I havent seen anything resembling a mantis, nor do I know what the tell-tale signs are.

We did and are currently getting another round of bristleworm problems. I thought, by chance that bristleworms may have been taking down these creatures, but ive always heard they are simply scavengers and will pick dead stuff clean, but wont actually kill it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

[alexb518]

no...it's not a bristle worm. well, it could be an extremely large eunicd worm, but it would have no where to hide in a smaller tank. as i was reading, i was thinking manthis shrimp before you even suggested it. so, if you've heard a clicking, chances are that is the problem. have you found a pile (like in the blair witch project) anywhere in the tank?

and no, they are not scavengers...they are great hunters/killers.

[Randall_James]

IF you had a Mantis, you would know it... There is no mistaking the sound...

1 week or less is about normal for people to loose fish. Acclimation, poor health, too much stress, and harrassment from other fish already in the tank are all common reasons to have fish die.

Quarantine fixes a lot of this problem by allowing a fish to regain its strength. They are weakend by all the capture, transport and retransport that they go through and it could have been a couple weeks since they ate well. QT gives them time to recuperate.
http://myreeflinks.com/directory/546.html Link to qt article

[cdangel0]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9851035#post9851035 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randall_James
1 week or less is about normal for people to loose fish. Acclimation, poor health, too much stress, and harrassment from other fish already in the tank are all common reasons to have fish die.

http://myreeflinks.com/directory/546.html Link to qt article

But there are no fish remains in the tank and no hermit crabs. Could any of his other livestock be eating the entire fish?

I do not know either what to look for to know if it is a mantis, but from what I have read there are crabs that will hunt sleeping fish which may be why you're losing your livestock.

Try a red LED flashlight (apparently fish and inverts can't see red light) at night and see if you can find anything walking around the tank that you don't see during the day.

[Randall_James]

if you leave a dead fish in the tank for more than a couple days, it will simply disappear to bristleworms, bacteria and a zillion other possible micro-organisms. Pretty amazing process to watch I think. The ammonia spike that you see when a fish dies is this process happening

[LazyD]

Ive the done red flashlight trick many times. The only things I ever see are some bristleworms cruising around.

Our liverock setup is like a ring almost, with a top on it, there is decent amount of open space in the middle, just smaller then the size of a fist.

I was looked again last night, again didnt see anything. I did see some empty snail shells all next to each other in the middle of the open area in the liverock.

As I said before, I have heard clicking, but I have also seen at the time the clicking was happening one of my larger snails on the glass "shaking" and looked like he was hitting his shell against the glass. These clicks come in pretty rapid succession, like 3-4 at a time.

The odd thing is, theres really only like 20 Lbs of LR in there, I guess at this point I could just pull the LR out and Hypo/Hyper Salinity dip the rock. The only thing corals I knowingly have is some like 3-4 mushrooms on one rock. Also have a lot of random things on the rocks that I may take a pic for ID

[Randall_James]

This would be more than a simple click, more like a loud "Pop" Sort of what you would expect if a marble hit the window type pop. The empty snail shells are another good sign if this guy is hungry...

[LazyD]

Thats sort of what it sounds like, just multiply it x 3-4 in rapid succession and thats ive heard before....

[ocean.mirage]

but the click could just be a pistol shrimp. I have one of those in my tank. It sounds like a mantis but it only clicks once. If you hear multiple clicks in a row,like "1-2-3". Then it is a mantis shrimp.

However, I have only ever lost one critter in 6 months. And this was a cleaner shrimp. It was aten my my hammer coral. And LPS can eat things fast. My shrimp disappeared completely overnight.

Do you have any LPS in your tank?

[LazyD]

As I said before, its not a single click, its 2-4 in rapid succession.

I dont have any LPS, the only coral I have are 3-4 purple mushrooms

[Randall_James]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9857201#post9857201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LazyD
As I said before, its not a single click, its 2-4 in rapid succession.

I dont have any LPS, the only coral I have are 3-4 purple mushrooms The number of clicks has been said to be an indicator of either pistol shrimp or Mantis...

I say that does not work. I have had both and they are both capable of repeated "pops in a row or a single pop.

The pistol shrimp does it when hunting for pods or trimming macro algae (yep he mows the lawn) and Mantis will do it when killing prey.

[LazyD]

So it seems like my options are pretty much at this point, taking the LR out and dunking it in club soda...

Also, any opinion on lighting?

Ive been thinking of going with a 150 Watt MH. Id like to be able to keep corals, possibly even a small anemone...Also, Id really like to be able to keep a clam...

[LazyD]

My girlfriend and I went to Costco today and unfortunately we didnt get Club Soda, we did get Crystal Geyser sparkling water which is just simply carbonated water.

We tried dunking the rocks in the bucket and even left a few of the rocks in there for a couple minutes and the only thing that jumped off was a few bristle worms and maybe 1 or 2 very small brittle serpent stars.

No pistol shrimp, not mantis shrimp no nada... Nor did we find the bodies of any fish or anything, just some empty snail shells...

So im coming back to my theory that possibly the fish/inverts died and were picked clean quickly by bristleworms...

If that is the case then I guess the animals dying must have to do with bad water quality, but everything is checking out pretty decent. The sand is somewhat nasty though since we havent been able to keep any snails or gobies from disappearing, when you hit the sand a big old sworm of what looks like brown dust goes through the tank which I imagine, is bad..

[onecrzyboi4u]

check behind the tank..

[LazyD]

Already looked there multiple times thinking they jumped out... No luck

[onecrzyboi4u]

hmm.. thats strange.. id have my water checked out.. have your local lfs check ur water..

[MTB]

I think mantis shrimp. No piles of sand where it could be hiding? I had one that excavated a nice size tunnel under some rocks. It was tiny, like an inch and a half. They can really wedge themselves in rock crevices when they feel threatened. I have a pistol shrimp and he clicks a few times in a row. The mantis was considerably louder.
Having your water tested is a good idea. The fact you hear clicking leads me to believe there is something in there though. Good or bad has yet to be determined. Hope you get it settled soon.

[MTB]

The snails clicking the glass could be from current hitting them.

[LazyD]

MTB I think you may be right about the current hitting him. There is only 1 power head on the back glass facing directly forward because I didnt want to powerwash everything in the tank with the blast from the powerhead. The only time ive seen him knocking against the glass is when he was on the front.

We pulled practically every rock out of the tank except for 2 very small pieces. At this point im leaning towards crappy water quality and bristleworms chowing down...