Cyano - the good, the bad & the ugly

[pnosko]

Hi, Dr. Ron. :)

I had asked you about a dark spot in my DSB in this post (http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=730665#post730665) and you said it was a cyanobacterial colony. I've seen others complain about outbreaks of cyano.

What's the difference between good, bad and ugly cyanobacteria?

[rshimek]

Originally posted by pnosko

Hi Pete,

What's the difference between good, bad and ugly cyanobacteria?

Different species do different things. There are a lot of cyanobacteria or blue-green algae; several thousand species have been described. These organisms are basically photosynthetic bacteria.

One species, or group of closely related species, tends to live on surfaces and forms red to purple to pink slimy mats. These are mats of billions of photosynthetic bacteria held together by mucus. These bacteria tend to grow in aquaria on substrates where there is a lot of dissolved nutrient, and they tend to like low current areas. If there is a nutrient imbalance in a tank, such that nutrients are not sufficiently well processed and exported, these bacteria tend to show explosive growth (the population can double in about a half hour). They can be a really unsightly mess in a tank, and they can be very difficult to control.

Other cyanobacters are also common in our systems. Many species live in the sediments, within live rock or even inside some animals. They can be almost any color, but black, red, violet and green are probably the most commonly seen colors. In the sediments and rock they are part of the nutrient processing guild of organisms and are quite beneficial.

:frog:

[pnosko]

I came back from a 4-day trip to find the following in my refugium. :(

I had someone stop by every other day to drop in a couple of algae wafers.

[pnosko]

I'm also seeing some type of green algae growing on the rock getting the best of the pitiful 15w x2 bulbs in this refugium. Is this hair algae? How's come I've got cyano and green algae growing while my sea lettuce is slwoly dying away (turning white)?

OOPS! Attachment is in next post.

[pnosko]

Green algae.

[pnosko]

I've seen these plow through the violet cyano, but it grows back. Are they eating it? I have a bunch of these in my display tank and could relocate them if they do eat it. If not, based on your reply to my initial post (THANKS, BTW), is it likely that I'm overfeeding?

Also, can you tell what that clear "insect" looking thing is above the snail?

[pnosko]

This is less than 1/8" in diameter, and there are numerous other similar ones, some much smaller in diameter. Are these the eggs of the snail in the previous post? I've been seeing many tiny (pinhead-sized) snails like it.

I've also seens other things on the glass that look like eggs in a "straight-line" pattern.

[dc]

The snail looks like a Nassarius to me, not sure about the pod. Cool snail eggs I've never seen that pattern before. I believe the Nassarius lay the eggs in a sack with several in it. Well I ended up getting a One Spot Foxface for my extreme Bryopsis problem. He eats the Red Cyano off the surface first. I figure that's a bonus!:D

[pnosko]

A few hours after my posts, during yet another bout of insomnia, :rolleyes: I visited the refugium again. I saw two small masses of purple stuff floating against the front glass. Then I saw the cyano "animate." Actually, some air bubbles "activated" under it, and a roughly 3"x3/8" strip "stood up." After another minute or so, it broke loose and floated up to the surface. I netted it. It would be nice if the rest of it would be so cooperative. :D

Thanks for the ID dc; mine look very similar to this Google hit at liveaquaria.com (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=23&pCatId=1133), except that all of mine have a charcoal grey shell, not beige like in the picture. Does the shell coloring vary? And the description is perfect (they bury themselves all the time, and sometimes when I drop in a sinking algae wafer, they all wake-up and start moving before it even hits bottom). However, this site says they are extremely difficult to breed in captivity, and I'm fairly certain I have a slew of youngins. Could they have come in the LS? I added it on 8/17.

[dc]

I don't know, I think pictures are very deceiving as far as color goes. Mine are more grey also. Watch the little ones, I had a bunch of hitchikers that looked a lot like them, but turned out to be bad ones. Still have one that is always in the rock that I can't get. Sending one in to Dr. Ron or getting a really good picture of the snail from the opening with the snail withdrawn is the only way to know for sure.

[rshimek]

Hi Pete,

Well.... I am not sure your snail is a Nassarius, I would need a shot showing the shell aperture with the animal withdrawn. Take one, remove it from the water, hassle it to make it retract, lay it on its "back" and photograph it. Then return it to the tank, it will be fine. Shell color is generally a very poor characteristic to use with snails as, in most of them, it is quite variable.

The egg mass is a snail egg mass, but isn't like those of any snail I know, so.... :D

The "insect" is an amphipod. Do a search on that term, you will find lots of info. Here is a link to an article (http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/library/articleview2.asp?Section=&RecordNo=331) I wrote on them.

Green algae turning white is likely sporulating - "going sexual." As to why you have the various types of algae growing in various places - well, I'd probably have to see your system to get a handle on that. :D

[pnosko]

Well, I had three different types of snails, and these are the smallest. I only had a few of another type, and I haven't seen 'em since I got the LR. Do some type of snails spend most of thier time hidden in LR? I've now had the third of the largest type (turbo's I think) die. Do you remove dead snails? My bristle worms seem to like them, so I've left 'em im the tank.

Thanks for the amphipod link. :)

Those snail egg spirals are all over the place, even showing up in my display tank (dozens). I wish I could catch what is making them.

I saw something else I'd like an ID on, but getting a pic won't be easy. It stays on/in the LR. It dark gray, and elongated, about the width of a pencil and twice as long a wide, flat (I think) on the bottom (no legs, moves like a snail), and round on top, with flattened edges. Picture a slightly flattened "bell curve" as a sectional shape cross-wise (side to side). It has two antennae (spl?) that look like they have lots of little threads, and they "feel" around, extending and curling up. It moves fairly fast considering the texture of the rock (to me), maybe an inch in say, 5-6 secs. Does this sound like anything familiar?

I'll have to do as you suggest to get a pic of the shell aperture that snail, because I think they are reproducing. There are hundreds of tiny babies crawling on the sand where what used to be cyano :D and on the glass too. A digital SLR is definately on my list at this point.

My ammonia/nitrite/nitrate is at 0/0/2.5 now. Is it time now for a water change, or should I wait for 0/0/0?

Last question, and it's the most important. What's your favorite aqueous ethanolic solution? :beer:

[rshimek]

Originally posted by pnosko

Hi Pete,

Do some type of snails spend most of thier time hidden in LR?

Yes. They will be largely nocturnal grazers. In the real world to be out in the day is to be fish or crab food.

I've now had the third of the largest type (turbo's I think) die. Do you remove dead snails? My bristle worms seem to like them, so I've left 'em im the tank.

I leave them in the tank, and may remove the shells later. I don't replace them. Dying snails typically means that they don't have enough food, or that other conditions are not good.

I saw something else I'd like an ID on, but getting a pic won't be easy. It stays on/in the LR. It dark gray, and elongated, about the width of a pencil and twice as long a wide, flat (I think) on the bottom (no legs, moves like a snail), and round on top, with flattened edges. Picture a slightly flattened "bell curve" as a sectional shape cross-wise (side to side). It has two antennae (spl?) that look like they have lots of little threads, and they "feel" around, extending and curling up. It moves fairly fast considering the texture of the rock (to me), maybe an inch in say, 5-6 secs. Does this sound like anything familiar?

Sounds like it could be either a nudibranch or potentially a flatworm. I would need an image, I think, to get a handle on this one.

My ammonia/nitrite/nitrate is at 0/0/2.5 now. Is it time now for a water change, or should I wait for 0/0/0?

Now is fine.

Last question, and it's the most important. What's your favorite aqueous ethanolic solution?

Obsidian stout from Deschutes Brewery in Oregon.

:D

[pnosko]

Sounds like it could be either a nudibranch or potentially a flatworm. I would need an image, I think, to get a handle on this one. Well, I've heard nothing good about flatworms on RC, but not much about a nudibranch; are they good or bad? I looked over a few galleries, and the nudibranch and flatworms are actually very colorful and pretty; whatever I have is a dull gray, and didn't resemble any of the pictures.

If I see it again, I'd like to get some good pics. Do you know of a good way to pull something like this off a rock w/o hurting it?

THANKS for all your help. :)

[rshimek]

Originally posted by pnosko

Hi Pete,

Well, I've heard nothing good about flatworms on RC, but not much about a nudibranch; are they good or bad?

See this article (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-09/rs/index.htm) in this month's [rk]. Or do a search on "nudibranch."

I looked over a few galleries, and the nudibranch and flatworms are actually very colorful and pretty; whatever I have is a dull gray, and didn't resemble any of the pictures.

Yeah, people post images of the pretty ones. They don't post pictures of the ugly ones. See here (http://www.rshimek.com/odd_critters.htm#Flatworms) and this thread (http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113915) for images of ones that are rather "blah."

Do you know of a good way to pull something like this off a rock w/o hurting it?

Use a turkey baster or such to suck it up.

:frog:

[pnosko]

Great luck found me; there it was and I had a turkey baster within reach! :D

Here come four photos that I hope will do, because I returned it to the rock when I was done. The first is a top view.

[pnosko]

Here's another top view with it on the move, and it almost looks like it has pectoral fins.

[pnosko]

This pic is more blurry than the others, but it shows some "things" (how's that for a description!) on the sides of it's back.

[pnosko]

This pic I couldn't be more proud of, unless it had come out sharper. :rolleyes: But what a cute little face!

Overall, it looks like a snail w/o a shell, although I've never seen a snail out of it's shell. I dunno what happened to the thread-like things I thought I saw on the antennae. I couldn't get a sharp enough picture of 'em, but I didn't notice them this time.

I hope the news is that it is not a bad thing to have, 'cause I'm kind of attached to it already! :p

[rshimek]

Hi Pete,

It is a snail, and it has a shell, which is clearly visible in a couple of your images. It is Stomatella varia. Search this forum (link at the top of the page) using "Stomatella" as the search term and you will find a lot of information and other threads about it with images.

Bottom line = harmless, algal grazers.

:D

[pnosko]

Well, what an embarassing let-down; I thought I found something exciting. Just a snail, eh? :( His shell (which I now see) is pretty stealthy compared to my other kinds of snails.

Many thanks for your time. :)