Study of Skimmers!!! Lets Discuss!!!

[lukinrats]

Ok... I have been doing nothing but studying protien skimmers the past couple of weeks... I am waiting on someone to build me a custom sump ( not having much luck in finding someone to do this!!!!!!!!!!!), and I find myself with so much extra time to critique the skimmer selection!

Now... I have narrowed (and I use this term loosely) it down to several choices... If you folks can kindly give me any experience that might help me put one of these over the top, I would greatly appreciate it

Here are my choices in no particular order ( I am open to any of them)

1. Aqua- C ( i really like the design of these ) COMPACT!!!
2. Precision Marine (seem to be similar to the AquaC )
3. Euro Reef (it seems that the PINWHEEL is the way to go)
4. Tunze????????????
5. ASM/ Octopus Rec. (I had almost decided to go with this)


Ok please help. I stumbled across the thread for the CSS skimmers and ended up buying one, but now that I have time on my hands I may send it back after reading reviews on these others... I hope this turns into a great discussion about each one of these skimmers because as far as I can tell they are the ones to choose from. I only want to discuss this in one place so that maybe we dont have to search around each thread so much!!


Thanks in Advance!!!!!!!,

[lukinrats]

OOPs!!! The thread title was supposed to be

Study of Skimmers!!!!!!!!

Lol

[shyland83]

I have an ASM G3. I have no experience with any of the others, but the general consensus is the asm is only good if it's modded. I did the meshwheel mod and the recirc mod and it's works great. If money isn't a factor i would go for one of the others but it is a cost effective alternative if you don't mind doing the mods

[lukinrats]

Thanks shyland83.. This is exactly what i am hoping for.. The experience with these skimmers is what matters the most.

the upsides and downsides to each one that people use is what i consider the most helpful.

I really appreciate that info.. this Forum is great!!!!!!!!

[lukinrats]

Also I am wondering if I can Get an Aqua C , and change the pump to a needle wheel or Maybe even a Euro Reef modified Pinwheel ( if i could come up with one)

If anyone has info about that it would be beneficial

[BryanJ]

I have the euroreef 8-1 it is ok I am a little disappointed in it after all the hype a few years back. I am impressed with my aquamedic turbofloater multi. I have ran into several people who think Tunze is the best even though it is not the most popular brand. ASM users seem to be happy as well. Several people in my reef club have them and like them. Most people I know that have Aqua c are not happy with them. Hope this helps.

[luke33]

lukinrats, there are so many good skimmers out there these days its tough to say whats the best. IMO what works for each individual is the best. You have to look at more than just a brand, think about how large your system is going to be, how large a footprint you will be able to house as well as height, is this going to be a fowlr, semi reef, full blown reef. What size tank, are you looking to upgrade in the future. All these are just SOME of the components to look at.

[luke33]

Also, what kind of price can you afford. There are becketts, NW's, venturi's, air stone driven along with others that you can pic from. Is electric cost an issue? Some more food for thought.

[kodyboy]

luke is right, lots of variables to consider.
For my 2 cents here is what I have experienced:

Tunze 9010: awesome skimmer, small, quiet easy to use, pulls out lots of skimmate. No mods, other than a different collecting cup or a cup/drain tube addition.

D&D marine typhoon: a really good (and really) inexpensive HOB skimmer. I am looking at two mods for this one: a gate valve and a T or some such addition to stop siphon problems with the skimmate drain line. I think simply drilling a hole might work fine.

ASM G3: great skimmer! not well built, but easy to use and it pulls out lots of gunk. The mesh-mod really increases perfomance and a gate valve is useful, but not neccessary. Never tried the recirc mod. I do like the locking top though, euroreefs and others are not attached and fall off when cleaning the collecting cup, and entrance into the skimmer body is easy too.

odyssea PS160: a decent skimmer, not badly built, works well out of the box. Have not tried to mod it.

saphire nano 12: not too bad for a tiny unit, but finicky and the pump is not the best. For a nano skimmer it is a decent unit, and it is built well.

rio nano skimmer: a better skilter........not really great

skilter: crap

seaclone: better than a skilter, but not by much.

visitherm skimmer: crap, even worse than a skilter, if you can beleive it:)

Internal airstone skimmers: Lees and Sanders: they work, but are a PINTA to deal with. I am glad airstones are a thing of the past for me.

[supertech3]

I run a remora pro w/mag and it is an alright skimmer nothing to brag about but have had thoughts of going with a tunze or deltec but am hesitant due to the fact, will I see an improvement that justifies buying a new skimmer

[lukinrats]

Man!!!! This is working out really well! I really expected this thread to get lost in the shuffle real quick.

Ok... I am going to try to ask and Answer some questions

#1--- Bryan J--- Thanks for the input, but why are you not happy with the Euro reef (Elaborate a little) , also the people that dont like the Aqua C... What are some of the complaints? thanks for the input!

#2---Luke--- I understand that the Brand makes not a difference in world really... as I mentioned I have been studying, and thinking a lot about my skimmer options.... the ones that I picked were based solely on this... I intend to have a full reef... My tank is a 90 gallon tall, and the sump that I plan to build is going to be around 25 gallons w. skimmer section---> return section----->small fuge... I may upgrade one day (not sure) and this is the reason that i liked the Aqua C ... it seems that you can get a larger skimmer and still keep a smaller foot print than with some of the others... and finally I just decided that since IMO the skimmer is the MOST imp. Accessory that i would just spend whatever I need to.! Thanks for the input

#3---Kody--- Great list man!!! but which skimmer do you use (curious)

[lukinrats]

also the Aqua C that i am wanting to go with is NOT the Remora HOB.... I want one of the sump models that kind of resemble the precision marine bullets

[jbeltmann]

Hey lukinrats, did you ever check out melevsreef about your sump intentions? You should really check it out if you haven't yet. He is also a member on this forum too. Very knowledgable and would probably help you out if you get stuck somewhere in your build.

[lukinrats]

Thanks Jbelt, but the thing is this... I have been studying that site for the past 3 weeks... IT IS GREAT BTW!!!... that guy really knows his S(*&... I however dont, and i dont have any of the tools or acrylic, etc, and i figure by the time i get geard up for all that i could just pay someone to do one for me... I sent MELEV some emails because it says on his site that he still builds and ships them, but i think he is very busy with his sumps, site and whatnot... so i am really just trying to find someone who is set up and wants to make a few extra bucks... See i am an oilfield worker, and do not have time for hobbies like that... My tank is all that i can manage... I wish i could do a sump like MELEV and get the satisfaction of it, but i would probably just screw it up in the end

thanks,

[BryanJ]

my turbofloater pulls more gunk period. no matter what system I put it on then the euroreef. for the price euroreef charges it should out perform the turbofloater hands down. As far as the aqua c complaints same thing for what they payed they feel it should produce more skimmate.

[jbeltmann]

Lukinrats, I understand the whole time thing and you guys work very hard. If you could get your hands on a tablesaw through someone you know that would be all you really need toolwise. If you aren't really comfortable at first start with some small samples so if you screw up its nothing to get burnt up about. On the other hand if money isn't an issue just go to a local acrylic or plastic place and I'm sure they could build you one or know someone who could.

[lukinrats]

I might try that J... I live in rural Mississippi tho... dont know if I have ever seen a shop like that... i will check into it though.. thanks,

[lukinrats]

However money IS NOT an issue... that is why I tried MELEV first... Then when I could not get him i thought surely i can come across someone willing on RC... so far tho it seems that I cant!

[jimdogg187]

Bryan, what pump are you running on the ER?

the older models had weak pumps on the 8" skimmers.

The new pumps will out perform the turbofloater, hands down.

ER no longer uses those pumps on their 8" bodied skimmers, and the performance is night and day.

Jim

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9773052#post9773052 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shyland83
I have an ASM G3. ...f money isn't a factor i would go for one of the others but it is a cost effective alternative if you don't mind doing the mods

Considering that the G3 is $12 less than the ER RS135, I'd say the last thing the G3 is, is cost effective.

[markandkristen]

i had the tubo flotor multi on my 90 i used it in sump.
it worked great for a month then i would get like maybe a 1/2 a cup a week then i got a euroreef and it did better.

i did the ricirculating mod on my euro 6-3 = not much difference. (changed it back to normal)
now i run two euroreefs with the mesh mod and get great results. i have the gate valve to adjust. i clean my cup every two days. and they pull alot of stuff out. i used the enkamat pf4 with two layers and have two sedra 5000s
they will skim well if you keep the collection cup clean

[gcarroll]

What model AquaC are you considering. Performance of the Remora/Urchin is not comparable to the EV series.

As for converting a AquaC to a needlewheel skimmer. If you want a needle wheel, buy a needlewheel. do not buy and injection/beckett style skimmer and run it as a needlewheel. The two types of skimmers operate completely different and are optimally designed for their purpose.

[BryanJ]

Jim if I upgrade pumps will they attach the same way or do I need to make mods to get the new pump to work with the existing fittings?

[hebdo27]

Have you considered Downdraft skimmers. MY ETSS skimmer is da bomb. Low maintenance, easy to setup and skimms like a champ.

[lukinrats]

gcarrol thanks for the info... i was not sure what spray ind was... I am considering the EV 240 right now... I think I would like it

[lukinrats]

HEbdo... what is a ETSS skimmer?

[JRaquatics]

Like everyone has posted before me you need to know the style you want to go with then go by brands. I just converted to a AquaEuro USA 135 classic needle wheel skimmer from an AquaC 120 ran by a mag 7. It is still too early to tell but as of now the AquaC just pulled darker and more skimate than the AE USA. I like my Aquac 120 but I wust say you do need to use a larger pump than the manufactures recomendations.

[tiberiusjones]

I will chim ein with the hemdob guy, i love my reefdevil pro , it runs like a champ and the gate valve makes dialing it in a cinch. Look at my gallery for pics in operation.takes up very little space in my sump, which was a concern.

[shiveley]

For larger tanks I like the ETSS Reef Devil Deluxe and the Pro Clear Impact 200. Two totally different skimming methods, but both are very effective.

I have an AquaC Remora on my 20G right now, and it's doing a great job on that tank, but I wouldn't use it on a tank size much higher than that.

[kodyboy]

I use the tunze 9010, asmg3, ps160 and saphire 12 right now.

[CSS Reef]

If money is not an issue would you consider H&S??

I've had:

AquaC Remora Pro and EV-120, they worked OK but was never fully satisfied, especially with the HOB (which you are not getting).

Turboflotor Multi 1000: Long time ago when it came with the aquabee pump, i loved this skimmer on my 90 gallon ,was quiet and reliable.

ASM G3 - Worked fairly decent but Sedra pump is way too loud in my opinion and build quality is not the best


Now I have an H&S A150-F2001. Works great although i am still breaking it in. Build quality is second to none. Aquabee pump has a slight hum but not too bad.

Other you can look into are Deltec APF-600, ELOS NS1000

Hope this helps.

[pitogo]

I bought the Euro-Reef RS-80 after going madd with the old junky orca that came with my fuge, its a bit over sized for a 37G lightly stocked but I have to say it does perform rather well unmodified. It gunks up quick and pulls more crap out than I thought I had in the tiny tank.

[shiveley]

not that it's applicable to this guy's tank, but what to the people that have used the saphire 12 think of it? I've got 12G nano, and skimmer options are mighty slim when nanos are concerned.

[gcarroll]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9774198#post9774198 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
gcarrol thanks for the info... i was not sure what spray ind was... I am considering the EV 240 right now... I think I would like it Do you want an submersible or external pump. If internal, choose the Mag18 and order the 1" gcarroll injector. The skimmer will perform like a beast. If you would rather go with the Mag 12, then buy another brand of skimmer. The skimmer need lots of pressure to the injector to perform optimally. Most who have complaints about AquaC performance were using the smallest recommended pump. Usually because they were originally willing to sacrifice performance to save a buck or two.

[jimdogg187]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9774153#post9774153 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BryanJ
Jim if I upgrade pumps will they attach the same way or do I need to make mods to get the new pump to work with the existing fittings?

The new pump should fit right on, but I'd call at ER and explain your situation first.

They had to custom fit my Eheim to my older 8-2 body, but I think its because its an RC model.

The problem was that sedra 5000's just don't draw enough air on the 8" bodies.

The new pumps pull in much more air.

HTH

Jim

[rooroo]

THis is a great thread! I'll chime in with my limited experience thus far...

I have an Aqua C Urchin, and while it did great on my tank while it was stocked lighter, its underpowered now. I don't think I'd use it on anything larger than a 40g. It pulls out some decent gunk, but its just too small in general I think.

I'm upgrading soon and think I will upgrade to a Euroreef RS80. It fits in the space I have. Only other thing I'd really consider over that is a Tunze 9010, but thats just a little to expensive to get approval by the hubby.

[lukinrats]

ok sorry folks... I just left my pc for a while... I had no idea this thing would start getting that many replies... This is the kind of thread I have been looking for for 2 weeks, but it just seemed that they were all dedicated to one skimmer or another... if they were discussing one certain skimmer it always seemed that it was the greatest... that is what got me to buy a CSS... but anyway

I am going to have to check on those reef devils... it seems they are well liked.

I really am leaning towards the Aqua C though... Gcarroll what is the Gcarrol 1" injector???

It is starting to narrow down some more for me.. this might be a pretty list right now, but some more discussion might change it

1-- Aqua C Ev model
2-- Euro Reef (not sure, but prob. NW)
3--Tunze
4--maybe H&S (gotta check into them... what makes them 2nd to none????)

[lukinrats]

lets keep it going!!! what about bubble master???

[CSS Reef]

I have no experience with the bubble master, people love them but only from what I have read, the bubble mater is extremely touchy and hard to tune in. Sticking your hand in your tank will cause the foam head to collapse because of the oils from your hands and hard to skim dry.

I stated that H&S build quality is second to none.

Read more about H&S Skimmers here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=405

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9775307#post9775307 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CSS Reef
Sticking your hand in your tank will cause the foam head to collapse because of the oils from your hands and hard to skim dry.


Any skimmer that doesnt have its foam collapse when you stick your hands in, is pulling almost no air, and isnt working correctly.


H&S makes a great skimmer, but saying second to none is silly. The Bubble Kings are definitely better skimmers, and IMO, so are the Bubble Masters.

[jimdogg187]

I have to disagree Rich.

The thread wheel skimmers are the ones that have issues with surface tension from what I have learned.

I put my hands in my tank ALL the time, and the only time I loose the foam head is from selcon. I can post a video if you like :)

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, especially if you have a smaller tank. The smaller volume of water is affected more from hand oils.

But something about the thread wheels makes it more difficult for them to deal with the changes in surface tension.

Jim

[RichConley]

Jim, I run a threadwheel, and I dont find it to be any more touchy as far as the foam head goes than my previous ER. If you put something oily in, the foam dies.

What makes the threadwheel "deal with it less well" is that they draw so much more air. Its the same reason that becketts shut down. They have a much larger foam head, so its more sensitive.

[mikedege]

I really like my bermuda aquatics. Ive had a Aquac Remora, Euroreef CS6-2, And octopus nw150 in the past, and the bermuda bps3 is the best, by far, and quite a small footprint.

In my expierience the ones i have owned in this order.

Bermuda bps3(great with eheim 1262 pump)
Octopus nw150 (great for the price)
Euroreef CS6-2 (I was expecting better performance)
Aquac Remora. (average at best IMO)


good luck, Mike:)

[lukinrats]

what is a threadwheel???

[jimdogg187]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9775439#post9775439 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
what is a threadwheel???

http://www.atiaquaristik.com/content/images/47499a54c43adeeb59368125f7c1f794.jpg

[lukinrats]

oh ok... I have seen those on here in different places, but i thought they were others modded with something... Who uses these, and how do they rank???

[CSS Reef]

I didnt say H&S skimmers are second to none................. I said build quality is second to none.

As far as the foam head collapsing, on the bubble masters from sticking your hand in the tank, al Iwas saying is I keep reading this periodically but as I said I have no experience with these skimmers. Many do love them

[jimdogg187]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9775422#post9775422 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Jim, I run a threadwheel, and I dont find it to be any more touchy as far as the foam head goes than my previous ER. If you put something oily in, the foam dies.

What makes the threadwheel "deal with it less well" is that they draw so much more air. Its the same reason that becketts shut down. They have a much larger foam head, so its more sensitive.

So does the thread wheel deal with it less well? Or is it the same as your old ER?

I'm not understanding what you are saying. You seem to have contradicted yourself.

Can you please explain?

[jimdogg187]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9775520#post9775520 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
oh ok... I have seen those on here in different places, but i thought they were others modded with something... Who uses these, and how do they rank???

Most people DIY TW mod their skimmer impellers, but ATi is the only company that I know of that offers them stock in their pumps.

I haven't owned one yet, but a couple of locals have their ER's modded with TW's. And they are just too finicky for me. Just my opinion. When they are up and running, they work very well, but compaines like H&S, ER, Deltec and Royal Exclusive don't use them. That makes me wonder.....

[lukinrats]

where do i go to find information on H & S skimmers?

[jimdogg187]

There is a finsreef forum (they are the sole importer of H&S products) here on RC.

You can also visit their site at finsreef.com

I used to have an A150. Great skimmer IMO.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=405

Jim

[lukinrats]

How exactly do the Tunze skimmers work? They seem to be so much different from anything else!

[lukinrats]

Ok... I found them... Now the only question that I know to ask is this.... Is there any proof that they would be better than the others that I have listed? I only ask because they are priced so HIGH... Now I really have no problem with the price if it means that I am getting something worth while... I will buy this or the ER, or the AC or whatever else... if it is worth it... This should be a whole lot easier

I really appreciate everyones input... I think that this thread is the only way that one can weigh his/ her options and be happy in the end!

[lukinrats]

I forgot.... Does anyone also know about Precision Marine... I know that MELEV uses them and likes them... but that is all that I have heard of them

[kodyboy]

tunze are great, and worth it

I have also found octopus to be decent and the aquaeuro usa skimmers look good too. I would get either one over an ASM or euroreef.

H&S/Deltec/bubbleking/bubblemaster look nice, but are really pricey and I doubt they are really that much better performing, although their efficiency, build quality and quiet operation are often lauded.

[Doug]

I have used Euroreef, Precision Marine and AquaC.

I had a horrible time with the Euroreef. It was expensive, didn't produce much skimmate and was very hard for me to clean and maintain. I cannot remember the part number but it was an external, re-circulating unit.

The Precision Marine bullet worked well and made a good amount of skimmate but it was a nightmare to maintain under my stand.. The injector was hard to remove. I even bought the retrofit clear injector with the quick release parts but it too was a pain in the neck to take out under my stand. It was also hard to get the tiny snails out of the injector.

I have used both an older AquaC unit and a new one now. The older unit worked well and was very easy to maintain compared to the others. The injector did plug up after a while but it was fairly easy to clean. It produced a good amount of skimmate, almost as much as the PM bullet, and used a fairly small pump compared to the PM unit.

I am currently using a new AquaC EV180. I have only had it on the tank for a couple of days so I am not sure how it will work compared to the others at this point.

[Rip Current]

This is my das/diy skimmer 29" tall 6" od body with a das aquabee 2000/1 pump mesh modded
It pulls about 600 lph of air and cost about 250.00 to build

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/65238mini-das_skimmer_003.jpg

[kodyboy]

nice DIY:)

[summer6]

You can info on H&S skimmers from this RC sponsor.
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=34_184

[lukinrats]

Ok , so like I said... i purchased A CSS 125 , but was going to get rid of it.... Now I really need to skim my tank, so i decided to put it up... whoops there goes 200 bucks... anyway i guess i will see how it does until i can get my sump and new skimmer

[lukinrats]

I keep thinking about the aqua euro , and the octopus, but as best i can tell you have to mod the hell out of them... It just seemed to me like the Aqua C, Euro reef, and the Precision M didnt.

I am wondering what you guys think is the best TECH... NW, PW, spray inj, Etc... I thought that NW was the one, but I just do0nt know now

[kroe]

Oh man... now everyone is going to start parrotting back about how thread/mesh wheels are finnicky...

This is absolutely not true... yes the foam head collapses some when you stick your hands in the tank, but it comes back very quickly.

The fact that H&S, deltec, ER, Royal Exclusiv don't use the threadwheel does not mean it is bad or finnicky... it is NEW. ATI is the first manufacturer that is using this type of wheel, but will certainly not be the last.

You see mesh wheels commonly in DIY because you can make a $60 pump outperform a $200 pump. Most of the DIYers are removing perfectly good needle and pin wheels to replace them with mesh and are happy as can be with the result (myself included). If the mesh wasn't at least on par with the needle wheels people would switch back after trying the mesh.

ATI Bubble Master is great... IMO it's the first of a new generation of skimmers (thread/mesh wheel). I think we'll see more manufacturers using these, and the prices coming down. While the ATI Bubble Master is way cheaper than a RE Bubble King, it is still pricey.

I don't own a bubble master, but if you want something that works great out of the box for a non-atrocious price, that's what I'd go for.

I have owned AquaC, and was not impressed. I know it is attractive since the EV is compact for the tank size rating. Forget tank size ratings though... the volume of a skimmer is very important... second only to the amount of air the pump sucks in. Smaller skimmers generally have less potential than larger ones.

[jimdogg187]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9777012#post9777012 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kroe
Oh man... now everyone is going to start parrotting back about how thread/mesh wheels are finnicky...

This is absolutely not true... yes the foam head collapses some when you stick your hands in the tank, but it comes back very quickly.

The fact that H&S, deltec, ER, Royal Exclusiv don't use the threadwheel does not mean it is bad or finnicky... it is NEW. ATI is the first manufacturer that is using this type of wheel, but will certainly not be the last.


Sorry, but this just isn't true.

TW's have been around for a while now. Wolfgang over at Deltec has posted that they had experimented with TW's years ago. And while they found them to improve the airdraw on poor performing pumps (i.e. sedras), they did not like what they found with regards to longevity and consistancy. And as a result, they choose to stick with the pinwheel design that had made them, BK and H&S so popular over the years.

I'm not going to say one is better than the other. Frankly, I have never used one on my tank, so I cannot comment from first hand experience other than what I have seen in person on other local tanks.

The ATi's look great. They seem to perform well when they are up and running. Infact, if they make an external model, I may try it out.

But from all I have read, and I'm sure others will agree, it seems like the TW's are finnicky.

[BryanJ]

This was a great thread with everyone just talking about their personal experiences and all the different skimmers.

[lukinrats]

I agree.. I did not want to start any arguments... I like that people have diff opinions on things because that is what I am looking for (the diff opinions).. I personally dont have a clue about the differnt impellers... that is why i am asking so many questions... I need to know these things to make an informed decision, and to be quite hones with you it is really helping... Someones opinion may be bad to them, but it may just be the thing that someone else would like... I have really gained some knowledge and I hope I get to keep gaining it through this thread... Man whoever knew that making bubbles inside a chamber could be so involved... I am really amazed at how technical it can get... I love this kind of S*^*

THanks guys,

[Rip Current]

Euroreef/diy with eheim thread wheel
35" tall 8"od body w/bubble baffle
even at 35" the eheim 1262 pulls 1200 lph of air.






http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/65238mini-Picture_004.jpg

[BryanJ]

The best impeller on the market in my opinion is the one in the ocean runners for aquamedic. If I ever make the plunge to spend 600 on a brand new skimmer it will be for the aquamedic shorty.

[Freds]

My experience has been as follows:

Aqua C Remora -> Toy appropriate for a nano tank only
Aqua C EV-180 -> Loud and not very good
ASM G2 -> Decent for the price, not a great performer
ASM G2 recirc mod & gravity fed -> Better but still only decent
Deltec AP600 -> Great skimmer for 65 gallon and under
Deltec APF600 -> Great skimmer for 75 or 90 gallon tanks
Deltec AP701 -> Too compact, the AP851 would be a better choice
ATI BM 200 -> BEST BUY FOR THE MONEY!

As far as needlewheel skimmers go:
Deltec, H&S and Euro-reef are the only skimmers to consider

Aqua C
Skip these they aren't worth it. If you disagree go searching through the TOTM threads and count the number of Aqua C skimmers you see.

Beckett skimmers
Can't be beat but they're loud and power hungry

Personally I like needlewheels. They are "set it and forget it" skimmers and the three brands I posted above are like volvos. They go on and on forever. They also have GREAT resale values. Any good piece of equipment has a great resale value.

[jimdogg187]

http://www.captiveoceans.com/pics/BKinternaltitaniumwheel-1.jpg

I think the BK impeller may have a leg up on ALL skimmers.

[lukinrats]

Dont euro reef use an impeller that looks like the BK?

[lukinrats]

Hey Freds that was a great list... I guess I am going to have to rule the Aqua C out all together... F***... The thing is that I was about a frogs hair away from just buying one today... I am so glad I decided to start this thread... I am really loving this thread... So in your opinion the extra cost of the bubble master is worth the extra money?

[lukinrats]

where would one go to find a bubble king anyway?

[lukinrats]

Man... I see now that i cannot justify spending money for a bubble master or a bubble king they are just too damn high... I may bring myself to get an H&S or Deltec, but Jeez man I just cannot believe that people cannot buy a good skimmer for less than 500 bucks... VERY VERY BOGGLED

[Nick A]

Yeah, I don't see how some people can pay for a piece of equipment that costs more than their tank...

I too have found the Oceanrunner/Aquamedic needlewheels to be very good on a skimmer, although it is my first skimmer with a needlewheel. Mine is pulling some pretty dark stuff, but I'm thinking its missing some stuff....thus my reason for wanting a bigger skimmer like a custom Orca with a 12" dia. and 3 NW pumps or a Octopus TDNW-300.

[kodyboy]

I disagree that the octopus or aquaeuros need to be modified to work well. There may be easy mods (mesh wheel, gate valve) that many people do to improve them, but they are not needed to get good skimate. People do these mods because they are easy and cheap, and get a skimmer deal in the end that is even better than the good deal that they received buying them in the first place. With simple mods an asm/octopus/aquaeuro can work as well as a deltec/H&S/euroreef for a lot less money. That is why they are so popular. The build quality, pump quality and efficiency are better for most of the more expensive skimmers, but on a on cost/performance ratio they lose big time.

[SW Steve]

I can't speak from experience, but I'm very interested and I've been reading a lot of these "what is the best skimmer" threads in several forums. I've heard complaints about every brand at least once (Aqua C, Euroreef, Bubble Master, Octopus, Deltec and so on... with two exceptions: The Bubble King and H&S. The only complaint I've ever heard about either of these is cost.

With that in mind, even if money was no object the price of the Bubble King just seems insane. Not to mention I would have concerns about product support since the manufacturer is in Germany. It's difficult to buy the product in a reasonable amount of time so I can only imagine it would be a hassle to get replacement parts or support of any kind. I could be way off, but it's my thoughts.

So, I think the H&S would be an excellent performer right out of the box and a safe by. I believe it is a German made skimmer as well, but it seems to be much more readily available than the Bubble King.

Here are a few retailers for H&S skimmers:

Aquarium Specialty
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=34&osCsid=8c47f44fcb192787d0165523e50ffa04

and

http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/
or
http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AO&Category_Code=HSPS-IN

[lukinrats]

I have really gotten some great information on skimmers from this... I .. However.. am Skimmer studied out... I hope some of the late night folks will jump in on this and keep it going because I still have not made up my mind

[sledger]

My only experience with skimmer is the BM250. I have it on a total 300g+ system. Gave it bath and it was pulling very dark/dry skimmate in 3 -4 hours. I've had it for almost 3 months now and currently skim wet. It produces 4-5 inches skim in 3 days. This is an in-sump model with very large collection cup. As a newbie I had no problems getting this skimmer dialed in.

[lukinrats]

I am curious on whether you guys think that H&S would be better than one of the recirculating needle wheel models?

Pretty close to a decision now?

[skwirl]

before you buy anything, you really need to check out the d.a.s. skimmers.. they have a recirc skimmer that is really nice.. d.a.s. pumps pull alot of air, and the bubble size is grrr8

[lukinrats]

where do i look at das??????

[lukinrats]

Ok... After all this discussion... I think I have found a way around all the BS or choosing a skimmer.... I looked at those Orca Skimmers, and I really like the Idea of being able to get them built the way that you want them!!!!!!!!

I was thinking of going with the Aqua C EV models because of the relative small footprint compared to efficiency, But I really wanted a recirculating NW skimmer.... I did not want the HUGE footprint though...

I think that this will be a nice way to just get what you want

Now alll I want to know is... Who has opinions on this... who has used this Guy, and who can give advice on how to have it built if I give specifics about my situation?

thanks,

[kodyboy]

there is a thread on orca skimmers somewhere

[lukinrats]

ya i have been reading it, but since this was the original thread for my information... I thought I would ask non-partisan skimmer owners what they thought... some of those other threads seem kind of one sided

[USC-fan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9782438#post9782438 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
Ok... After all this discussion... I think I have found a way around all the BS or choosing a skimmer.... I looked at those Orca Skimmers, and I really like the Idea of being able to get them built the way that you want them!!!!!!!!

I was thinking of going with the Aqua C EV models because of the relative small footprint compared to efficiency, But I really wanted a recirculating NW skimmer.... I did not want the HUGE footprint though...

I think that this will be a nice way to just get what you want

Now alll I want to know is... Who has opinions on this... who has used this Guy, and who can give advice on how to have it built if I give specifics about my situation?

thanks, He can build you a DAS skimmer for a little more than what they cost.

I have a DAS ex-2 and it an awesome design skimmer.

[reefez]

Well I have used the Aqua-C. I liked it but that's as far as it goes. It was just ok. I just got rid of a Aquamedic Turbofloater Multi 1000 that I was very impressed with for it's size. Just wasen't big enough for my bioload on my 125gal. So yesterday I upgraded to a Octopus 3000 that I ran for 4 hrs. with a vinegar bath. It has been running for under 24 hrs so far and has not pulled squat didly! However I did a water change of 20 gal. while I hooked it up so my system is pretty clean. I also did the gutter guard mod to the impller. I am very impressed with the bubble size and build quality of the 3000. For the money you can't beat it!
I know it will suck the poop right out of the water when it is fully broken in.

[lukinrats]

ya i really wanted to get an OCTO but what is the footprint on it... is it a Recirc?

[lukinrats]

BBBBBBBBBP

[reefez]

Don't know for sure. It is big though. Ya the 3000 is a recirc. Can't wait for it to break in.

[lukinrats]

reefez you a pearl jam fan?

[jasonak]

Ive had a skilter and a hang on back aqua c remora,i would say there about the same the remora looks cooler and cost more though,lol wasnt impressed with either.Id get about half a cup every two weeks from my remora.the skilterwas better but it was hit and miss with it,somdays overflowing some days working perfect.Id never buy either again or recomend them.

[nanoguy]

I ran an Aqua-C 180 and it was just ok.....not worth the money in my opinion. I think my Turbo Floater skimmed better then the Aqua-C. I also owned a EuroReef and by far is the best skimmer I have ever used.

[lukinrats]

I wonder what makes MELEV like his Aqua C so much... to build a whole sump around it... it must not be that bad... I think I have decided on something tho

[jimdogg187]

Melev uses an Aqua C on his 55 gallon according to his site.

On his big tank, he runs a EuroReef.

[SW Steve]

You beat me to it. I was just gonna post that he's using a Euro-reef on his big tank.;)

I looked at his parameter logs. It looks like he has had his fair share of battles with nitrates and phosphates. even though he runs two phosphate reactors. He also uses a 5-stage RO/DI unit so it's not his water source. So why the elevated nitrates and phosphates? Maybe he was doing some over-feeding or missed a water change or two. But, it seems like elevated nitrates and phosphates could be a reflection of the performance of that Euro-reef. What do you more experienced reefer think?

[lukinrats]

Yes I would really like to know... I just found a ER skimmer in the used section, and am currently trying to work out a deal... If this thing is not going to be as good as its hype I would really like to know!

thanks,

[lukinrats]

also I realize MELEV has the AquaC on his 55, but what I was pointing out is that he built a whole sump around it... He must really like it... I mean this guy does not mess around... If the AquaC is not good i really cant see him not buying something else to go in that sump... The sump was really nice!

[Klaus Jansen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9777012#post9777012 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kroe


The fact that H&S, deltec, ER, Royal Exclusiv don't use the threadwheel does not mean it is bad or finnicky... it is NEW. ATI is the first manufacturer that is using this type of wheel, but will certainly not be the last.


ATI Bubble Master is great... IMO it's the first of a new generation of skimmers (thread/mesh wheel). I think we'll see more manufacturers using these, and the prices coming down. While the ATI Bubble Master is way cheaper than a RE Bubble King, it is still pricey.
[/B]

No, ... thats not correct... the Inventor of Meshwheels are not ATI, the Inventor of this technologies is Mr. A.Neuhaus from Germany... he tested Meshwheels end of the 80ths years..:D after development the Meshwheels he make Needlewheels and patenting this development in Europe. H&S and Deltec buy this Patent from Mr. Neuhaus. 1998 make the Company Schuran Saltwaterequipment, a Patent of the Meshwheels. The Meshwheels at this time, are Copys from Schuran-Meshwheels. That is Fact... The Meshwheels are not a new generation of new skimmers, here in Europe is this an old technologie...
The biggest problem of Thread/Meshwheels is, he destroyed himself... Needlewheels are life many years, hes are more stabilty and free from vibrations.
Royal-Exclusiv testing at the moment, a new Meshwheel-Design from Polyurethan. This Material a very hard and destroyed not himself. So we testing the prototypes and so we want see what RE using in the future or next years...

best regards.. Klaus

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/royal-exclusiv/F1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/royal-exclusiv/F9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/royal-exclusiv/F8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/royal-exclusiv/F2.jpg

airintake more as 2500 Liter 660 gallons) with one Red Dragon Pump
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/royal-exclusiv/F5.jpg

[wuelfman]

i use the aqua c 240 it runs good but does need a bigger pump then what they tell you. this is running on a mag 18 i just upgraded to a mag 24 today. as well a custom riser
you can see the dark stuff it pulls out. i have thought about trying a different skimmer but i think i just have had this one for like 4 years or so
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/2897DSCF1560.JPG

[lukinrats]

Does anyone know anything about ECO Plus 6 Skimmers?????

[lukinrats]

I really dont know what to think of this, but I found this Coral Vue Dual recirculating needle wheel skimmer for $340... that sounds sort of cheap doesnt it?

I might have to go with that... I dont care how big it is... that seems like a good deal to me... please tell me if i am wrong!!!!

[wuelfman]

do you have a link?

[lukinrats]

http://www.everything4saltwater.com/product_info.php?cPath=55_458&products_id=3031

try this...hard to pass up!

[lukinrats]

http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=6253

or is this the better deal?

[gkarshens]

I had a CSS 220 on my 125 and thought it was great. Then I found a used ER CS6-2+ locally and bought it. What a difference! I have been very happy with the ER. I am surprised there has not been more mention of Deltec on this thread. I have several friends that absolutely love them. I just can't justify the extra money for one myself.

Melev's nutrient problem seems to be from feeding heavy not the ER if you follow his thread.

[SW Steve]

Does anybody else have a bubble king? Can somebody refer me to a thread of somebody who has one?

[jest]

Lukinrats

Any reason why you're not considering beckett style skimmers ?
I went from an Aqua-C to an MRC and it was worlds of difference.
They are a somewhat power demanding ....but don't think they can be beat.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9777163#post9777163 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimdogg187
Sorry, but this just isn't true.

TW's have been around for a while now. Wolfgang over at Deltec has posted that they had experimented with TW's years ago. And while they found them to improve the airdraw on poor performing pumps (i.e. sedras), they did not like what they found with regards to longevity and consistancy. And as a result, they choose to stick with the pinwheel design that had made them, BK and H&S so popular over the years.

Jim, the problem deltec had was that while teh performance was better than their needlwheels, they couldnt find a material that could hold together for long periods (20 years ago). We've found materials that do, so that concern no longer has any validity.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9775534#post9775534 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimdogg187
So does the thread wheel deal with it less well? Or is it the same as your old ER?

I'm not understanding what you are saying. You seem to have contradicted yourself.

Can you please explain?

The threadwheel skimmer supports a foam head 4 to 5 times the size of the ER, so yes, it is affected more by the oil in the water.

That being said, it also skims about 100 times better.

[jimdogg187]

I think you may have not understood my post :)

I specifically noted that the issues were with consistancy and longevity. Not performance.

And yes, now that Klaus from RE has enlightend us, there is some research being done with polyeurathane to make a stronger TW to help deal with these issues.

I apologize if you feel that I have attacked you. My only intention was to clearify that yes, indeed, the TW's are infact more "touchy" than the NW/PW design, whether it be from the performance boost, the extra air, or whatever else :) I'm not saying its good or bad. I just thought that I'd bring it up, since so many dismiss it :)

I'm sure that we will see more and more creative use of TW's. But the current methods on the market are not perfected if there is still issues with longevity and deterioration it appears.

Cheers,

Jim

[melev]

Finally caught up on this thread. Man did I get mentioned a lot. :lol:

Let me list the skimmers I've used since I got back into the hobby about 10 years ago:

UGF (not a skimmer) with Penguin pumps instead of airstones
Skilter 250
CPR Bakpak
Aqua C Remora
SeaClone
SeaLife Systems in sump built-in skimmer
Aqua C Ev-200
Aqua C Remora Pro
LifeReef VS24
Euro-Reef 12-2
ASM G-3

I think that is all of the ones I've bought. :D Now how do they stack up?

<b>UGF</b> (under gravel filter) = not good for saltwater tanks in my experience. Nitrate factory
<b>Skilter 250</b> = noisy. Within a few months I modded it with a wooden airstone, airpump and got better skimmate. Used it for quite some time on my 29g. I replaced it with...
<b>CPR Bakpak</b> = Again, it was okay, although the Rio pump hated to restart after I powered it off. Had to hit the pump to get it started, and reconnected to the skimmer while water was shooting upward. A pain. Modded it with the same wooden airstone system as the skilter for better skimmate production.
<b>Aqua C Remora (w/ MJ1200)</b> = Loved it. No regrets at all. It is very important to clean the spray injection nozzle monthly. Using the O-ring around the cup makes it virtually silent.
<b>Seaclone 100</b>(came with my used 55g) = what a piece of crap. That skimmer was so bad I was mad that I paid for the electricity to feed its pump. For a while, I asked people to send me theirs just so I could drive over them with my car so they would not be passed on to other unsuspecting reefers. I got over it. Eventually.
<b>SeaLife Systems in-sump skimmer</b> = worthless. Came with 55g, and was replaced with a much better sump and the next skimmer...
<b>Aqua C EV-200 (with Mag 12)</b> = Great skimmer. Low rumble noise, but not heard once cabinet doors were closed. Cleaning the injectors every couple of months was important. Never needed adjusting. The collection cup was easy to remove: lift 1/4" and pull out. Highly recommend cleaning out the cup and neck of skimmer daily. Not only do I recommend it, but that very skimmer was purchased used from a Dallas hobbyist that moved to Austin, and after I had it for a couple of years, it has gone to run on at least 4 more reefs as people continued to use and sell it to the next person. As we upgrade, there is always someone that needs that skimmer. :)
<b>Aqua C Remora Pro (with Mag 5)</b> = worked great, but the pump was really large and ugly in my son's 29g. Ran quietly. Remember to clean spray injector monthly.
<b>LifeReef VS24(with Mag 12)</b> = this skimmer came with my 280g reef. It never did what I needed, as it simply wasn't rated for the bioload I was running (29 fish including 6 tangs). It didn't fit under the tank as it was too tall with my stand, and it overflowed into the fishroom far too many times to count. I contacted Jeff for suggestions and had a list of ideas, but none of them were plausible. I did like that the venturi drew air from the collection cup, as you never smelled skimmate. Also, it didn't add to the humidity level because the cup didn't have vent holes. I honestly believe this under-sized skimmer was the reason my tank suffered from higher nitrate & phosphate due to the bioload and my feeding habits. Based on my constant complaints here and on other message boards, I can't believe someone bought it one day. I'm sure it would have been fine for a 180g reef, but not a 280g.
<b>Euro-Reef 12-2</b> = Awesome skimmer right out of the box. I've been using mine for the past 2 years. It uses two Sedra 5000 pumps with needlewheels, and used to pull out a gallon of skimmate a day. At one point, my bioload was lowered substantially (14 fish including 2 tangs) and I also reduced my feeding habits quite a bit. Water parameters have been far better ever since. The Sedras use little power, add very little heat and I'm very happy. I have modded the impellars to the meshmod system about 5 months ago, and have had to replace the pads 3 times in that period. Euro-reef has come out with newer needlewheel impellars, which I have in case I need to give up on the meshmod.
<b>ASM G-3</b> = bought it because it was dirt cheap as a back up in an emergency and/or cooking LR. Turns out the impellar was ruined, but it is a very nice back up skimmer. Currently it is on loan to a local reefer on his 200g system. He's happy to report it is pulling out all kinds of skimmate.

I believe that many people base their opinions upon personal experience. Some also defend their purchases because they don't want to admit it was a bad choice. Makes sense, right?

However, sometimes we don't know how to operate a product properly and thus we become frustrated and replace it with something else while someone else uses the exact same product with great results. Before giving up on a product, check with others to see what they are doing and see if you can make some minor adjustments.

<b>The Bubble King</b> is way out of my reach financially. It is german-built and considered top of the line.
<b>The Bubble Master</b> I just saw recently in person. It isn't quite as expensive, and perhaps is a good skimmer. It was interesting.
The <b>Tunze Skimmers</b> are intriguing, and I've seen one in action. It was hard to believe that little guy could care for the huge tank it was on, but I never found out how that worked out.
<b>H&S skimmers and Deltec Skimmers</b> are also out of my reach. They look good and are respected.
<b>Elos skimmers</b> are works of art, but I've never tried one. I'd love to do that one day, but again it is out of my price-range.
<b>Bermuda skimmers</b> are gaining popularity after every MACNA.
<b>Volcano skimmers</b> using Sequence Dart pumps are for larger systems. They are relatively new (within the last 12 months).

There are different types of skimming: Venturi (suck in air), Spray Injection (Aqua C is the only one that does this), Beckett injection (needs a pressure rated pump and tends to be rather noisy), and Needlewheel/Meshwheel impellars.

Whatever you pick, it needs to fit in your sump & under the tank. It should be easy to access and clean, and it should be easy to pull apart for daily (my recommendation) cleaning of the collection cup. Consider the noise factor, and calculate the expense of running it electricity-wise. Skimmers that overflow inside the sump don't wreak havoc on your tank like a skimmer that is being run externally, so I always recommend in-sump whenever possible.

For me, Euro-reef is my favorite. It is built well, doesn't use much electricity, works as advertised, and keeps my reef clean. Aqua C does a good job, but it is larger than you think footprint wise. The black box may be 9" x 6" but there is a 3" gate valve coming out one side that needs another 1" of clearance, plus you'll need space for the skimmer's pump. So that skimmer may need 10" x 11" in your sump - still reasonable for many systems. ASM is made more cheaply, and at this point I think it is being replaced with Octopus skimmers.

Sorry I didn't get back to you about those emails. I try to keep up, but I get a lot of quieries.

[lukinrats]

Jest,

I just dont know anything about becketts.. I have heard them mentioned before, but never explained

[CSS Reef]

A great reply from Royal Exclusiv! Nothing better than hearing it straight from the source. I didn't realize Meshweel is an older technology in Europe.

[lukinrats]

I submitted a poll to Reef Central... I hope they put it in the polls section

I think a poll of the Following skimmers would be very useful... some of them are not really even going to show up I KNOW, but from all my reading they are the tops.

I think that most members of this forum would have been through the trial and error of skimmers, and that the most used would also turn out to be the best.

AquaC--EV series
Precision Marine Bullet
Euro Reef
Tunze
Octopus Needle Wheels
ASM-G
Turbofloater
Reefdevil
Aqua Euro (not 400)
H&S
Bermuda Aquatics
Bubble Master
Deltec
ORCA Custom
My reef creations
Austin Ocean Foaminator

[SW Steve]

Can you add Bubble King and Elos to the list?

[lukinrats]

Yes... If they get back to me and say that they will post it in the polls I definetly will... I forgot about Elos, but the reason I Did not put bubble king is that they are so freagin high.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9789908#post9789908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimdogg187


I'm sure that we will see more and more creative use of TW's. But the current methods on the market are not perfected if there is still issues with longevity and deterioration it appears.


But there aren't issues with longevity and deterioration.

I've been running enkamat for quite a while now... about 10 months. It looks like the day I put it in. I'd say at absolute minimum, you'll get 2 years, which is about what you can expect from an aquabee. I'd bet you'll get a lot longer than that.

[SW Steve]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9793202#post9793202 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
Yes... If they get back to me and say that they will post it in the polls I definetly will... I forgot about Elos, but the reason I Did not put bubble king is that they are so freagin high.

Yes they are too expensive. But, i dunno. It's just about the most important piece of equipment (as far as filtration goes) and it should just about last a lifetime with proper care (aside from the pump but the red dragon pump is incredible). I would still consider one. It would just mean I'd have to wait longer and save longer to get it.

What is the question in the poll? What skimmer do you use? What skimmer do you recommend? or what?

[kodyboy]

why did you put "not 400" next to the aquaeuros?

[lukinrats]

Steve--- I really dont know what the question is going to be... i have never done a poll on here, but it seems as though you have to submit your idea to the mods.... Then they will decide if they will put it up... I just gave them the list and asked if they would put a poll up to see how each skimmer rated among RC comm... I guess we will just see.

Kodyboy--- I really dont know... when I was writing down the list i put that beside AquaEuros because I cannot even think about fitting that huge thing anywhere... That one IMO would be for someone who has dedicated a whole room to their reef... I guess I just figured that a good majority of people might be trying to put skimmers under a stand... I am not sure if I put that beside them in the email that I sent to the Mods... I really guess it would not matter... I should have just put AquaEuros alone... If that turned out to be the most used it would not matter would it? The consensus in my mind then would be that AquaEuros as a whole were most widely used... even if everyone of them was the 400... I will send them another email and ask them to make sure I did not put that!

[USC-fan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9790333#post9790333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
... I'm surprised that you haven't use a DAS skimmer before. I thought you had a sump design just for the bx series.....

[melev]

No, I haven't. A local needed a sump to accomodate that particular skimmer, so I built it and took pictures. I didn't really like that skimmer because the pumps were underneath the reaction chamber and thus hard to access. That person told me it worked, but was somewhat of a hassle.

[USC-fan]

Yeah i don't like that design of the BX series. I just brought the DAS ex-2 from a pet store in your area. Really is a great skimmer and they sell them for a really good price.

PS- reefcast is awesome!!! ;)

[lukinrats]

I probably asked this at some point, but if I got an answer i dont remember... who sells DAS online... i dont thing I have ever seen one

[driftin]

After seeing it in this thread I looked it up, found it at petorama.

http://stores.petorama.net/Detail.bok?no=75

[einsteins]

Another great skimmer(s) are the Trigger systems becket skimmers.

Incredible quality, break alll the way down for maintenance and cleaning and best of all they are reasonably priced.

www.triggersys.com

I have the TS300 on my 120 and it rocks!

einsteins

[lukinrats]

how do the triggers work, what the cost, etc?

[lukinrats]

Melev you mentioned that you would like to try an Elos... Does that mean that they seem that they would be good because I will buy one and try it out... unless someone else would like to chime in and give some info

[kodyboy]

Aerofoamers are supposed to be good. I am getting a used one and will post when I find out:)

[driftin]

I know the OP stated that cost wasn't an issue, but for many of us that's a real consideration. Seems that all of the skimmers noted so far seem to fall into four fairly distinct price points when sized for a 75-100 gal system.

<$200
Octopus (NW150)
AquaEuro USA (135 classic or recirc)

<$300
ASM (G2 or G3)
Tunze (DOC 9005)
DAS (EX1)

<$450
Tunze (DOC 9010)
Trigger (TS300)
Bermuda (BPS3C)
H&S (110-F2000)
EuroReef (RS100)
DAS (EX2)
AquaC (EV180)
Deltec (MC500)
EuroReef (RS135)

>$500
AquaC (EV240)
ATI (BM200)
H&S (150-F2001)
Deltec (AP600)
Bubbleking (200)



Does that list seem about right?

[lukinrats]

I just want to make it clear that cost really isnt an issue if i need to spend that money to have what i need, but if i decide that i can get the same results out of an OCTO then that is what i am going to get

[lukinrats]

whoops... I accidentally his submit... anyway when i started this study of skimmers a few weeks ago... I had a CPR backpack (cheap)... and I was really looking for something else cheap... I found the thread about the CSS and they made them sound so good for the money... so i bought one... now I realize that they are not what I want... The only person that I know of in my town who has reef tanks was giving me advice... He says to me, go cheap on anything you like, but when it comes to the skimmer do not mess around get the best that you possibly can... so i have a threshold, and it is a pretty penny, but I really will try to go with something less than a bubble king if I think it will work... I mean I want something good but i cant justify spending more than i already have invested in my whole tank just for a skimmer

[lukinrats]

i might have spoken too soon about the Elos... I cannot even find anyone who sells them

[melev]

Elos is a sponsor here on RC, and I think their are based on the West Coast. The main company is in Italy.

I'd love to give one a try. The collection cup on the ones I saw at MACNA just sit on an O-ring. Nothing to twist off, easy as pie. They really were works of art. I got a catalog from them many months ago, but it didn't contain pricing. I'm assuming it'll be a lot. ;) Their stores are super high class in Europe.

[driftin]

Just found something on the sponsor forum, the NS1000 MSRP is $800 with pump, the NS500 (rated for 132gal) is $600.

On the list above, would be revised as:

>$500
AquaC (EV240)
ATI (BM200)
H&S (150-F2001)
Elos (NS500)
Deltec (AP600)
Elos (NS1000)
Bubbleking (200)

[einsteins]

Trigger sys TS300 = $325.00 at premium Aquatics
Thats what I paid for mine at least.

ein

[lukinrats]

I checked out those trigger systems and they look really nice... I am not too sure that I understand everything I know about Beckett Skimmers tho!... can someone tell me a little bit about them?

[koraltek]

mkay, so i assume this is for your 90g???

i sell skimmers for a living(among other reef gear..)
and my first choices are;

ATI bm160
H&S 150-f2000/1
tunze 9010

for cheaper skimmers i would say;
aqua euro recirc 265
octopus nw 200

dont waste your life on aqua c skimmers, etss downdraft skimmers, or beckett skimmers, either too loud, too much power consumption for the performance,
or in the case of aqua c, no performance at all.
and we have elos systems in our store as well, unfortunately i cannot say i reccomend the elos skimmers, while they do perform well, for the money they dont perform nearly as much as competitors in the same price range. the venturi on those skimmers clogs too frequently because of water splashing into the venturi (from the eheim pump, not salt creep).

these are just my personal opinions:)

[SW Steve]

I don't want to get too off topic, but those trigger systems berilin sump/refugiums look friggin sweet.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TS36BR&Category_Code=


They will also custom build them.

[lukinrats]

What does mkay mean?

but yes it is for my 90 gallon that I am planning on putting a 25-30 gallon sump under... I am sure the sump will only be about 15-17 during operation.. so I guess that I am looking to buy a skimmer rated for a little over 100 gallons... from all I have read most people say to double that to find the skimmer rating you need... so you seem to be about right on the recommendations

I would ask what makes the H&S better? It pretty much looks like all other skimmers IMO.... also what makes the tunze good... I really cant tell that much about them, and they always look small for the rating... In pictures anyway... I dont even know what makes the BM better, but I have seen that they are VERY expensive so there must be some upside to them... I really am just trying to understand the Pros of the expensive ones VS the cons of the so called cheap ones... I have already come to the conclusion that I will not get an Aqua C because there has just been too many bad things said about them.

thanks

[DeepBlueSea]

Have I been out of the hobby so long that ETSS down draft skimmers are barely even mentioned?

I used to run a ETSS 600 down draft and while it maybe a "energy" hog with a little giant 4mdq to run it.... I thought it did a great, great job...


Noise wasn't an issue since I had a dedicated sump room... I'm not even sure I thought it was loud. Was it considering this day's technology?

I like the set it, clean once a week, and forget it type...

[lukinrats]

OK I got the Poll up and going in this forum--- Lighting, Filtration, Equipment--- Please post your answers if you use one of the listed skimmers... I tried to put up most of the most popular, but could not list every skimmer because there are so many... I think it is a good list, and hopefully it can be narrowed down a bit over time... Also give any opinions that you have about your particular skimmer/ skimmers in that thread... I left the ability to choose multiple brands for those of you who have more than 1 system running... I hope it gets a lot of votes in order to get a good take on what works best for the majority

thanks,

[SW Steve]

I think when koraltek said "mkay" it just means "OK" only heavier on the slang... mmmkay;)

[lukinrats]

Oh I see... I am surprised that I did not catch that since I am what some people calll a redneck... from down in missippi lol

[koraltek]

yes, :) my crappy slang..lol

[driftin]

It was just brought to my attention that the source I used for the EuroReef skimmers (thought it was the manufacturer website) was consistently $100 higher than other online retailers... my bad. So the revised list is:

<$200
Octopus (NW150 or NW200)
AquaEuro USA (135 classic or recirc or 250)

<$300
ASM (G2 or G3)
Tunze (DOC 9005)
DAS (EX1)
EuroReef (RS100)

<$450
Tunze (DOC 9010)
EuroReef (RS135)
Trigger (TS300)
Bermuda (BPS3C)
H&S (110-F2000)
DAS (EX2)
AquaC (EV180)
Deltec (MC500)

>$500
AquaC (EV240)
ATI (BM200)
H&S (150-F2001)
Elos (NS500)
Deltec (AP600)
Elos (NS1000)
Bubbleking (200)

I guess I should point out that I only went to a couple websites to get the pricing information, and used manufacturer's sites where possible. So the list (inascending order of price) may shift up or down bit. I think it's a pretty good representation of the market though?

Looks like some great competition in that under $300 category, and even more if the budget is under $350 (includes up to the Trigger).

[koraltek]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9800399#post9800399 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
I would ask what makes the H&S better? It pretty much looks like all other skimmers IMO.... also what makes the tunze good...
thanks

the H&S skimmers are better because of the engineering and build quality. they are efficent, performance skimmers. they will produce viable skimmate every day, easy to adjust, and last a long time when you take care of them.

the tunze skimmer (9010, 9015, 9020) are not built quite as nicely as the h&s skimmers ie; thinner plastic, troublesome hangers, annoying to take apart and clean..
BUT, they are incredible performers, producing massive amounts of skimmate, are easy to adjust, and fit in tight spaces.
they definately skim on the wet side, which most will agree, takes out more nutrients. also, they are "plankton freindly" which means they presumably wont strip the water of all plankton.

[koraltek]

also, we should be seeing the royal exclusive bubble king mini skimmers this summer...
anything they make is going to be awesome, but pretty spendy.
i would say build quality second to none, but there are others that can compete when it comes to air and water processing per hour.

[rooroo]

lukinrats,

I replied earlier that I have an Aqua C Urchin and was planning to upgrade to an Euroreef RS80. I've been following this thread since you started it as I was in the same boat as you. I was searching for a new skimmer that would fit in my space but more importantly work better on my system than the Urchin did. I'm not saying the Urchin didn't work, it just wasn't working as well as I wanted it to. 2 months of hair algae and realizing that my skimmer is really underpowered for my tank caused me to consider a new one.

Anyway, the amount of information in this thread is staggering and wonderful for myself and all those in search of a good skimmer for their system. I really applaud you in making this thread and the Poll as they will be very useful for everyone looking at skimmers in the future, and taking the time to keep both thread and poll going.

In case you're wondering, I decided on a EuroReef but got a used CS6-1, so its slightly larger than the RS80 and cost be only a little more. I haven't picked it up or installed it yet but I can't wait to try it out. I'll be sure to post on here a review of it.

[lukinrats]

that is great ROOROO I too think that both of the threads I started are useful... I think if you go to the thread of the poll tho you will see that most everyone thinks I am an idiot for starting that thread... really all I did was take the skimmers that were mentioned in here and put them in a poll... to most everyone who has posted there, that was not good enough... The idea behind both of the threads was to have 1 thread that someone could read and get their information from... Instead of going through 15 threads for each one.. which are usually 80 or more pages long each... Oh well maybe the poll will still work out for some... I hope so because I think it will be useful information

I hope that you will post your experience with the ER since it looks as though that brand will be one for me to choose from in the near future

thanks for the kind words tho!

[lukinrats]

I think maybe the poll is starting to make more since to some people, or maybe its just me... I have gotten some GREAT info on skimmers there as well, should def. be checked out!

[Freds]

Sorry I fell off for a bit...

A good friend of mine has a company that builds sumps and low GPH pump beckett skimmers. I had a conversation with him about the Trigger system skimmers and he didn't see how they could be effective with such a short reaction chamber. The Barr Aquatic beckett is a far better choice in the Beckett line. I don't know anyone who has owned one that hasn't gone on a 15 minute rant about how it was the best skimmer they've ever owned when asked about it. These are people who've ran Bubblekings, large deltecs and H&S jammies. They take a monster of a pump to run properly though.

As to the comment about skimmers costing so much, YES! It should cost more then your tank. You should buy the largest skimmer that you can afford. A skimmer is like automatic transmission. Do you need it, no but it sure makes reef keeping easier. If you plan on keeping sps you really want to get yourself a monster skimmer. If your goal is to keep softies or lps you can get away with a much weaker skimmer.

Another note worthy mention here is to be weary of "I have a ****** and my tank looks great!" In my local group are tons of people that keep brown montiporas and think that their tank looks GREAT! and that they have GREAT COLOR! They pass off information on what they feel is great equipment, or proper husbandry and if you ever saw their tanks you would do the OPPOSITE of whatever they told you!

On the other side plenty of people have nice tanks but constantly battle nutrient issues. A larger skimmer could likely solve that problem for them. What I've found to work well is travel around and look at people's tanks. When you find a few that you like see what they do in common. My favorite sps tanks all ran monster skimmers and since I've joined the monster skimmer club my tank has vastlyl improved.

www.finsreef.com is also a vender of H&S

Oh! One last thing, do NOT buy a DAS skimmer or an Elos. Elos are some great guys but their skimmers are not. I've never met anyone with an Elos skimmer that didn't replace it in under 3 months. The DAS skimmers are not deltecs. The impellers and needlewheels are much smaller than the deltecs. Also petorama has no idea how to ship anything. They sent my the DAS EX-1 twice, it arrived both times in three pieces. I finally told them to just refund my money as I had no confidence that they could get it to me without it being broken. They shipped it to me in;
1. A paper towel box with one pass of bubblewrap.
2. A "Dixie cup" box with one pass of bubblewrap.

Mind boggling.

[wuelfman]

yes here is a picture of my none performing aqua c 240 (with a mod or two) :D
mine works ok
there are lots of choices. best i can tell you buy as big as you can on whatever you decide. the skimmer rating are not that good from builders

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/28975.JPG

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/28971.JPG

[lukinrats]

Ya... That is why I thought the poll would be interesting... I figured that AquaC would actually be used widely... I mean it is right up there out of 125 votes with the Euro Reef, Deltec, Etc... also about the Foaminator or Barr listed above... i really have been looking at those the past couple of days, and think that is the way to go... the only thing is that people say those beckett types are really loud... is that true?

[wuelfman]

well its not a beckett skimmer at all. its called a injection skimmer it you have ever put your thumb on the end of a hose with water being forces out water ? thats kinda how these skimmers work its really not noisy at all. the same as the rest of the stuff under the tank once the doors are closed i dont here anything
injection part the clear part goes into the box. the parb part has your pump hose slide onto it.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/289711.JPG

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/289722.JPG

[lukinrats]

wuelfman... ya sorry about that... I must be sleepy this morning or something... my posts are not very clear... I was actually speaking of the Austin Ocean Foaminator being a beckett because... the Barr Aquatics skimmer that Freds was talking about on up the page a bit

[lukinrats]

If anyone has an opinion on live rock please go to my poll in General Reef Discussion called " WHO SHOULD I ORDER LIVE ROCK FROM?" and vote

I would greatly appreciate it!!!

[Inflames]

Me and hahnmeister messed with soooo many different nozzles a long time ago. Not sure where the threads are but some of them work well. I found the best one was to just endcap a 90 degree elbow and drill a straight hole in it.

[lukinrats]

bump

[lukinrats]

^^^^

[3.99AfterTaxes]

How big a factor is electrical savings for you?

[Pinstripes]

Have you looked into the Coral SuperSkimmer? I have them and they are great.

pin

[lukinrats]

3.99---Electrical savings is hardly important for me if saving it means less performance


Pinstripes--- I have the 125 but it just does not do wht I want, but I am not willing to mod

[lukinrats]

^^^... Morn>>>

[rooroo]

I fired up my new (to me) Euroreef last night... I really liked it. Just had it in a vinegar bath as I need to get a few plumbing parts but its foaming like crazy. Very nice quality construction. If you're looking to not break the bank and get something that'll work well, a Euroreef is the way to go.

[lukinrats]

awesome... I must say that as far as that poll I put up goes... EuroReef is kicking everyone elses ARs!!!!

[lukinrats]

Originally Posted by ME in response to a post in the skimmer POLL thread...

(Quote)Lukinrats

Like you said... there is a clearcut leader at this point... Euroreef... The way I see that tho is (and I kind of figured this before ever putting the poll up) they are one of the most talked about skimmers on this forum, and a lot of people probably have them just because they are what is commonly recommended... that does not mean that I dont think they are good... that is obviously not the case... others I see this way:

AquaC, Octo, ASM, H&S have 10% of the vote respectively with 3 of those being pretty similar in design, but with the octopus having a dual recirc model that I really like, and which is faily reasonable

BM, Tunze, Etss, Deltec have 5% respectively... now out of these I feel like I can eliminate at least 2... the BM (cost) and Deltec because as I have heard a lot, the DAS is a cheaper clone... I could go with a Tunze, but I really dont understand it that much as far as how it works compared with its size... The Etss if I understand correctly is a downdraft... I am pretty sure that I do not want that

So if I had a list right now it would be to choose from these skimmers in no part. order

1-- DAS
2-- Euroreef
3-- AquaC
4-- Octopus
(5)-- My reef creations (J/b/c I think they look like a good skimmer)
(6)-- Foaminator (j/b/c that thing looks like it kicks A**)

I think that another poll of these would be in order... reason being would be to ask 1 question: "Which of these skimmers would you buy?"

I think that maybe a lot of people voting might have their eyes set on something else. The one they might go for next could be in that list.

I hope that answers your questions... The question about when I consider the poll over, I can only answer with this... I am not in a hurry since I am still waiting on a sump builder... I am thinking just leave the poll up to see how it changes (if any) over the next little bit.

[lukinrats]

Originally posted by Hahnmeister in response to the post above

(quote) hahnmeister

lukinrats, the foaminator, AquaC, MRC, and other beckett skimmers make for good skimmers, but they come at a price. The pumps that you must use with them need to be high-pressure, high-wattage pumps. Im talking 150watts on up for many, about 100 at a minimum just to run one beckett. The lph or air to wattage ratio is about 1/10 what it is with a decent needlewheel.

Of those, I would consider the DAS, ER, and Octopus. The octopus is attractive because of its price, but its not one of the stronger performers. The turbine pumps need a few modifications to get decent air, and at that they run hot and high on the watts. Not as quiet as an eheim, thats for sure.

Dont get me wrong, I have considered OCtos in the past, its just that when you say you dont want to have to mod or mess around with the thing, then that pretty much rules that out. I would prolly stear you in the direction of the ORCA's then in that case instead.

Then there is the DAS and ER. You cant go wrong with either one really. I hear some complaints about ER's customer service here and there, but hey, at least they have customer service! DAS is just an import brand, and they dont really even have CS here in the US other than the retailer you may buy it through. The ER, as long as you stick with the Eheim pump, is a great skimmer. The DAS, with its Aquabees, is also great. I would have a hard time picking myself.

[lukinrats]

now I just wonder what some other opinions are. Not that I dont value Hahn's he has given me some wonderful advice and I thank him for taking the time!!1

[andyjd]

Have you thought about a custom skimmer? I have one on order at the moment to replace my ASM G3

Andy

[lukinrats]

from who... I have been looking at the Orca's

[andyjd]

Yup Orca aka www.protein-skimmer.com

[lukinrats]

^

[skwirl]

man just get an a.e. and buy the genx pump to upgrade it, and have a skimmer that will do what expensive skimmers do, and maybe better and be done with it..

[lukinrats]

thanks,

[melev]

Can you post a link to your poll in this thread please?

[DeepBlueSea]

~

[SW Steve]

Skimmer Poll:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1105893&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[lukinrats]

Ya.. Thanks steve

[Heart of Dixie]

I run a MRC 1, elevated in the sump and the results are o nitrates and clear water. I do not run it with a pressure rated pump, but with a Quiet One 5000. When the current pump dies I will purchase a pressure rated one to replace it. The skimmer has been running now for three years without any problems. It is cleaned at least once a week, including the Beckett.

[lukinrats]

Ok.. I just realized that this thread is nominated for something called thread of the month... I never would have thought, but come on please vote for it... that would be AWESOME!!!! LOL

[lukinrats]

Dixie... I thought that those skimmers HAD to be run with a pressure rated pump!! I am just messed up in the head, or did I actually read that?

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9824915#post9824915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
Ok.. I just realized that this thread is nominated for something called thread of the month... I never would have thought, but come on please vote for it... that would be AWESOME!!!! LOL

This thread has been nominated for Thread of the Month (ThOTM). You can vote here:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9823043#post9823043

[zeusfc]

weipro... ebay special? complete rubbish! 'modded it to run as aspirated skimmer; still rubbish!

visijet skimmer for small tanks? even worse!

zeus' £20 pasta jar and plastic plumbing parts recirculating special? (802 meshmod) spot-on!

If you want good value, look no further than the DIY pages for some truly innovative discussions on how to get "more bangs for your bucks"!
there doesn't seem to be a skimmer out there that doesn't work better with a "mesh-mod!"

[conorwynne]

Hey lads,

No-one mentioned my lowly prism deluxe pro skimmer....
I take it you all think its pants then?

I do get skimmate, just not very much. However, I've been told that 4 small fish is a low bioload for a 64 gallon. --> a damsel, maroon clown, coral beauty and an odd ball wonderfish which magically ate all of my aiptasia - I am considering adding a large piece of LR covered in them for him to chow down on - indeed a wonderfish. A single hermit crab (he kills all other hermits, bad, bad boy!) and ten snails were added yesterday (I had no algae eaters).

Anyway, is my skimmer rubbish, or is it just working as designed with a low bioload?

[lukinrats]

I wouldnt know that much about the prizm deluxe, but I have had a single backpack cpr skimmer on my 90 for 2 years now... I had the same sort of livestock except there were a lot of crabs and snails, but anyway that thing has done just fine, and I only had to empty the cup about once a week... it is not very big either

[conorwynne]

Like, I turn my head and look into the tank, and nope, cannot actually see any fish!

Ah wait, there's one, and another, nope gone again ;-)

I should mention that I do feed them a lot, and I really like the carbon chamber, I change the carbon every week, religiously, and empty the skimmate. Its never more that a tenth full though, if even, probably 15th "full".

Does anyone have experience with them and compared them to the big guns - with a similar bio load?

My coral are all happy campers, acropora, montipora, zoos, xenia sp. (scorn of my life), other corals I never noted the common names of (never mind scientific).

For the first year, I discovered that it was setup wrong as I had to reset it every few days, it was a blockage in the air intake. I sorted that by simply cleaning it (after a year!) and its working grand now.

Ah wait, I can see a cleaner shrimp now, gotta go!

[conorwynne]

Hey lukinrats,

Did you ever get any issues with algae?
Due to a misconfigured skimmer, and total lack of snails (apart from three turbos), I did have some issues.

I now perform 10% water changes every two to three days, and with the new cerith snails (and others), the back glass is almost completely free of algae. Anyway, I am just wondering should I invest in a bigger skimmer..... hmm..?

[lukinrats]

Well I would say yes... Hope this does not sound like a rip off!!! I have just puchased a Coral Life Super skimmer 125 for my tank, and now that I have bigger plans for it... I will be selling it pretty soon... Now it is not the best of them out there by any means, but it does work well and is a needle wheel... I think it would be a great skimmer on your size tank... this is just if you are interested... i paid like 150 i think but you can have it for 100 if you want it... when I get done... but anyway... The only thing I have ever had trouble with is Cyano.. I am having some sort of something growing in there that I dont know about yet... I guess I will see

[kodyboy]

I have had both prism standards and prism pros (the bigger one, I think it was "pro" or deluxe or whatever), I hated them both! They never really collected any skimmate to speak of, and were very very finicky as far as setting was concerned. I don't think these things work very well. There was a thread on here somewhere that showed someone modding a base model and getting it work better......I chucked mine.
After

[kodyboy]

After I picked up my awesome Won HOB skimmer I was very happy (in comparison) it actually pulled out skimmate. How sad is that?

[Heart of Dixie]

lukinrats,
A pressure rated pump is suggested, however I tried the Quiet One that was sitting around and it seems to work pretty well. I get good foam, dark skimmate, lots of "sludge" in the neck and my nitrates are 0. I am going to use a pressure rated pump when this one dies or if I increase my biological load. I think when I bought my skimmer (three years ago) Andy suggested a pump rated minimum of 750 gpm, but not necessarily a pressure rated one.

[conorwynne]

Hmm Mr. Luginrats, I may well be tempted. What with the ¢ being so weak compared to the €.
Find out how much shipping would be to ireland and pm me.. Is it a hang on? Sory, clueless here ;-0

I think lack of flow causes cyano, think I read that somewhere. And I have a single small patch of cyano in one black spot, I have a tunze nano stream on order to sort that. The flow reduced as I added loads of new LR - more to be added today.... and the kids think they are going to the fair. :-0

[conorwynne]

oops, duplicate..

[conorwynne]

Hey kodyboy,

I am beginning to feel that it really is a crap product, anyone else used them?
However, it is small, and quiet (relatively) and the media compartment is very handy.

I could use another skimmer for my LR cooker/QT

Conor

[FroMan]

I have an ASM g3 and it seems to work reasonably well. My only complaint is the cheapness of the construction. I think they could have done a better job with the way the collection cup connects to the neck of the skimmer. I find that it leaks frequently from this junction unless you get it "just right" when you are putting the unit back together.

[andycook]

I never had that problem when I ran a G2 a couple of years ago. Conctruction quality must have changed.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9831638#post9831638 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FroMan
I have an ASM g3 and it seems to work reasonably well. My only complaint is the cheapness of the construction. I think they could have done a better job with the way the collection cup connects to the neck of the skimmer. I find that it leaks frequently from this junction unless you get it "just right" when you are putting the unit back together.

[lukinrats]

Ok... Connorwynne... I will check on the shipping monday... I think it would work great on your 65... it is pulling some nasty stuff out of mine right now... It is a Hang on or in sump

[mano1192]

I have teh Tunze 9010, my chioce to get this skimmer was due to its small size compared to any other skimmer. Combined with the sump attachment, this thing skims great in my 95g medium stocked SPS tank. Well worth the money and for its size is the best. Both dry and wet skims, go for the Tunze!

[lukinrats]

I am really interested in that little tunze dude, but I cant seem to find anyone that can explain how it works... NW, Spray inj, beckett, venturi, etc?

[dastratt]

Did you ask in the Tunze forum? They have one here and would probably give you some info.

[carnavor]

one name for skimmers MY REEF CREATIONS recirculating skimmer
RULES.

[xtm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9772994#post9772994 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats


Here are my choices in no particular order ( I am open to any of them)

1. Aqua- C ( i really like the design of these ) COMPACT!!!
2. Precision Marine (seem to be similar to the AquaC )
3. Euro Reef (it seems that the PINWHEEL is the way to go)
4. Tunze????????????
5. ASM/ Octopus Rec. (I had almost decided to go with this)



I am currently running a stock, unmodded ASM G-2 on my 60G SPS.. it constantly pulls dark gunk and I'm 'somewhat' happy with it. However if I knew back then what I know now, I would have gone with the Tunze 9015. My problem with the G-2 is the noisy and inefficient Sedra 3500 (35w) compared to the 9015 which is like 11 watts and is DEAD SILENT. Just my experience..

[FroMan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9832266#post9832266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by andycook
I never had that problem when I ran a G2 a couple of years ago. Conctruction quality must have changed.

Or mine could simply be an annomoly. Who knows!

As I've been plaining an upgrade to a large tank (180-240 gal)I've been comparing it against some of the more pricy skimmers lately: Euroreef, deltec, elos.

Last weekend I saw this elos skimmer (http://www.eloseurope.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=41&category_id=12&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=76&lang=en) and was very impressed with the build quality. I've never searched for a review on one of them, but the basic design looks quite good.

I'm more concerned with durability over the long term. I'd rather spend $200 more on a product that will last than save a few $$ on cheap components in the short term. Somewhat of a lesson learned with the ASM

[ThomasinKind]

If you're feeling overwhelmed by $500 + priced skimmers. I was reading some back issues of RK Mag and found THIS (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-02/ac/index.php). I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade (I'm going to spend/am spending a pretty penny on my system) but I thought this article was appropriate. Calfo touches on Skimmers about 3/4 of the way down.
-T

[koraltek]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9834761#post9834761 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
I am really interested in that little tunze dude, but I cant seem to find anyone that can explain how it works... NW, Spray inj, beckett, venturi, etc?
it's a regular post pump venturi skimmer, have you seen this??
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/fragfu/180000_z1.jpg

[mano1192]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9834761#post9834761 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
I am really interested in that little tunze dude, but I cant seem to find anyone that can explain how it works... NW, Spray inj, beckett, venturi, etc?

Its actually a very simple design, go to Tunzes website and check out the schematic on it. Tunze has great engineered products, the pump in this thing is 1/2 the size of the Mag 3 i used to run on my Remora Pro and its silent and skims better :) HTH

[kodyboy]

interesting article section, basically he thinks very expensive skimmers are for the most part not worth it, and I agree. If you are spending $1000 or more on a skimmer that must be a HUGE tank, or the organisms that you are keeping have very special husbandry needs. I can see why someone with $10K in reeftank livestock would think nothing of spending 1K on a good skimmer, investment protection. The problem is when the 1K unit performs no better than the $500 unit.

[jnb]

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9805474#post9805474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freds
[B]Sorry..... .Oh! One last thing, do NOT buy a DAS skimmer or an Elos. Elos are some great guys but their skimmers are not. I've never met anyone with an Elos skimmer that didn't replace it in under 3 months. The ......

Surprising to hear after having an Urchin Pro, ER , H&S a 200, I have settled in an a Elos 1000 and while 3 mths is not up, I can't imagine being any happier - as I stated in another thread: it is quieter, runs on many different pumps, and the pump is not modified from its intended configuration (which was one of my main complaints with needlewheel), the pump can run externally, the cup simply lifts off for cleaning, it downright a work of art, and it is doing the job

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7da04b3127cce83244a97546e00000016108Tct3LZuQ

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9837644#post9837644 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FroMan

I'm more concerned with durability over the long term. I'd rather spend $200 more on a product that will last than save a few $$ on cheap components in the short term. Somewhat of a lesson learned with the ASM

The problem is, many of the cheaper skimmers (Octopus, AquaEuro) are built significantly better than the expensive ones (Deltec).

[lukinrats]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9870593#post9870593 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
The problem is, many of the cheaper skimmers (Octopus, AquaEuro) are built significantly better than the expensive ones (Deltec).


Is this a fact?

[SW Steve]

Are you still undecided on which skimmer you are going to buy?:hammer:

I think you owe it to this thread to make a decision and report back just how beneficial this thread and the poll was.:thumbsup:

[skwirl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9984382#post9984382 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lukinrats
Is this a fact?

yes!!
deltecs are constructed with extruded acrylic, and its very thin my ae is cast, and pretty thick. not as thick as my old mrc2 though.. thats a well built skimmer..

[dastratt]

Continuing on lukinrats line of questioning.

is the thickness a real issue here? Just asking ...

I'm thinking about nutrient export, reliability, efficiency etc.

[DeltecRules]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9996292#post9996292 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skwirl
yes!!
deltecs are constructed with extruded acrylic, and its very thin my ae is cast, and pretty thick. not as thick as my old mrc2 though.. thats a well built skimmer..

Umm Deltecs are built using the same material as H&S just in a different way. I have owned two deltecs and have banged them hard a few times doing monthly cleanings and I have never seen a crack on them..LOL This is just plain fiction. I don't think any deltec owner is going to be swinging around their skimmers like a football.

[skwirl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9996421#post9996421 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DeltecRules
Umm Deltecs are built using the same material as H&S just in a different way. I have owned two deltecs and have banged them hard a few times doing monthly cleanings and I have never seen a crack on them..LOL This is just plain fiction. I don't think any deltec owner is going to be swinging around their skimmers like a football.
i am not implying that they are not tough. he asked if they were built as well as the others mentioned, and my answer to that is no. im not saying they are not well built, just that they are not "as" well built as some other skimmers. my ae is very well built, but it is nowhere near as well built as my mrc2.


and dastratt
the answer to your question is no. it really doesnt matter, unless its to a point like the asm skimmers where they have a track record of leaking, and failing at joints and whatnot. personally i would love to have a deltec.. i still dont like the extruded acrylic. it looks bad to me. extruded acrylic is not as clear as cast. thats why when you see a pic of a used deltec, it looks like its slightly tinted.. but all that is cosmetic. the performance is what makes a skimmer.

[lukinrats]

Steve... No I dont think I would say that I am undecided... I am still working with Melev to get my sump right, and make the skimmer section of it as large as it can be... With that said, I believe I am going to go with a ORCO custom skimmer.

I will give a little bit of history on how I came to this decision... When I started this thread I think I was leaning towards something that I thought would be compact... This was mainly because of the limitations of my stand, and how small the width of my sump would be... As the thread and time went on though I finally caught up with Melev and by studying his sumps on his website, and talking to him it was clear that it did not have to be that small... So my options opened up as far as width goes... Height is still an issue because I only have about 27" to work with... so after weighing all the options that I had, and looking at all the GREAT info I got from both threads, and the poll... I realized that I felt pretty comfortable with the fact that the D.A.S. skimmers were basically Deltecs... the fact that there was a cheap skimmer on the market that was an older model of an expensive skimmer, was nice.... I mean from what I have heard, Deltec has always had a good name... Also I had heard a lot of good things about the aquabee pumps... No other skimmer really had anything like this going for them... I mean they all had either decent pumps and bad const., or great const. and horrible pumps... so when I decided that I wanted to get a DAS, I went looking... I wanted the dual recirculating skimmer, but to my dismay it was 30" tall... DANG, LOL!... screwed again!!!!!

So now at this time... I decided that I was going to have to find another skimmer because I really did not want the EX-1... Long story short... I realized that ORCA was still around... I called them and we went over what my limitations were, and what I wanted... Basically, Sean found a way to get me what I wanted... So hear is what I decided to go with

ORCA custom skimmer, with 6" Re. Chamb., 3.5" neck, dual recirc. aquabee pumps, deltec style pump mount, 1" outlet w/ gate valve, venturi lines plumbed into collection cup, 25" tall... I think that is it... Main point being that after all the studying I found out that you can get what you want, and not have to settle... Sean at ORCA can get it one way or another, and I beleive that they will build skimmers any way that you want with any pump... The skimmer listed above may be modified to a 7.25" body/ re. chamb. because I have some more room in the sump now... I have to say that I thought it would be expensive to get a skimmer built like I wanted, but that was not the case... VERY VERY REASONABLE.

IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT BUT CANT FIND ONE SKIMMER THAT HAS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

CALL ORCA AND GET THEM TO MAKE IT!!!!!!!!

This is what I have decided, and I realized I would need to let everyone know, but I thought I would wait till I got it.... I will still post all my experience with it once it gets here

Thanks to everyone that shared experience with me on this subject... It was a huge help, and I know I would be no better off now than when I started... If it were not for this thread

Later

[conorwynne]

Hi lads,

Well I got a new skimmer - a Tunze DOC nano 9002.
I am taking the crappy prism out of production -- it generates too many microbubbles for my liking.

I needed something very small that would fit into my refugium --> it's a jewel 240 and I only use the integrated filter as a fuge. Nothing but LR and phosphate removal resins.

The new skimmer is noisier, but hey, it fits perfectly into the fuge and so far, no microbubbles. Hey it works, but now I've no room for macro algae. Ah well.

Here hoping it pulls out more gunk than the prism...

Q: Why does it take up to 24 hours before they start working correctly?

[melev]

Skimmers need to build up a slime coating inside before they really start working well. Plus the plastics may have some production residue on them that impedes the production as water tension is temporarily altered. Similar to putting your hand in the tank makes the skimmer shut down for a few minutes. Or like when you put food in the tank and your skimmer spits out bubbles for a short duration.

[conorwynne]

Thanks Marc,

It ended up taking 36 hours to start working properly -and I am still fine tuning it, but at least the skimmate is looking better now.

With the prism gone, I am not sure how I can run carbon, do I actually need carbon? I am not convinced there will be sufficient flow in the fuge now. Also, would carbon be a nitrate factory after a week or so?

Thanks
Conor.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9996421#post9996421 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DeltecRules
Umm Deltecs are built using the same material as H&S just in a different way. I have owned two deltecs and have banged them hard a few times doing monthly cleanings and I have never seen a crack on them..LOL This is just plain fiction. I don't think any deltec owner is going to be swinging around their skimmers like a football.

No DeltecRules, no theyre not. Deltec's skimmers are extruded. H&S are cast.

[melev]

Conor, you can run carbon in a Phosban Reactor instead. Here's some good reading about carbon, which convinced me to use it especially since I have a mixed reef.

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon.htm

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10014561#post10014561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Deltec's skimmers are extruded.

I never knew that Rich. I'm actually surprised to hear that.

[lukinrats]

Welll, I finally get to update this thread!!! This thread, as well as the other one " Poll of most popular skimmers!!!", helped me to decide on gettting a skimmer made... I wanted to put all the things that I thought I wanted into one without having to mod it... Here is what I came up with, and it was very very resonable from ORCA Systems

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/lukinrats/Nsmithskimmer-1.jpg

I will get it hooked up, as soon as my sump comes in, and give a full report... Any questions will be answered about the specs on this skimmer, as well

Later,
Nathan

[conorwynne]

Thanks for all this usefull info, and cheers marc.
It should be fine to mix phosban and carbon in the same reactor?

I don't see any issues with that -- opinions?
Yes I'm too cheep to pay the electricity for an extra powerhead, not to mention the extra phosban reactor!

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10014637#post10014637 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I never knew that Rich. I'm actually surprised to hear that.

Mark, I think its everything below the 802, IIRC. The big ones are cast, but most people are buying the AP600/APF600/MCE and those are most definitely extruded.

The H&S of the same size are cast. All the aquaeuros, octopus, and ER are cast (except the Rs-80-extruded). ASM is extruded clear PVC.

[Flint&Eric]

since we are "studying" skimmers...

check out this skimmer...seems like it would get some great contact time. reminds me of the berlin triple pass, but that it actually appears to work. it's the ZC Cyclon AS 1000 and 1500.

http://archiv.korallenriff.de/Cyclon_anfangbetrieb.jpg http://archiv.korallenriff.de/Cyclon_ZC_1-1500.jpg


i also saw this picture of the KZ injector....looks like a becket with holes drilled in it...like the old modifying becket thread here....

http://archiv.korallenriff.de/pohl_det_03.jpg

eric

[Kissfan79]

I am kinda' late on this thread but WOW...what a great thread. For a 75 gallon reef tank...what would the general consensus be as to the better skimmer for a tank of this size stock and un-modded:

Euro-Reef RS-80
or
Octopus NW150

The reason I put the NW150 instead of the NW200 was due to clearance issues. I am setting up my 75 and just purchased an inexpensive skimmer to get it going but will upgrade in the near future. After tons of reading...I believe those to be my upgrade choices. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and opinions.

Jim

[carlos_fb]

Awesome thread, very nice looking skimmer by the way Nathan.

Please keep us posted. :)

[lukinrats]

Kissfan,

I am not trying to sell you on anything, but you may want to check with Sean over @ ORCA systems... He can build a skimmer any way that you want... So if you wanted to sorta cross breed the Euro Reef and the Octo so to speak, he could at least work you up a quote... What I mean is that ER has steep prices but really good const., and the Octos sort of have bad pumps from what I hear, and have to be modded heavily...I would think you could get a great skimmer from ORCAw/ good pumps, etc

Carlos,
Thanks, hope it helps everyone else as much as it did me

Later,

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10310036#post10310036 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by conorwynne
Thanks for all this usefull info, and cheers marc.
It should be fine to mix phosban and carbon in the same reactor?

I don't see any issues with that -- opinions?
Yes I'm too cheep to pay the electricity for an extra powerhead, not to mention the extra phosban reactor!

Since carbon is only good for a few days and phosphate remover (ferric oxide) can be good for a month or longer, it really isn't a good idea to mix them in the same reactor. You could run carbon for three days, then empty it out and fill it with some Phosban to run for 4 weeks. Then swap it back to carbon for three days, and repeat the cycle.

One powerhead can run both reactors easily. I just used some tubing and a Tee fitting. Each reactor has its own ballvalve to adjust the proper flow rate needed.

[lukinrats]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10311351#post10311351 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by carlos_fb
Awesome thread, very nice looking skimmer by the way Nathan.

Please keep us posted. :)

Thanks!!! Lets just hope it works as good as it looks:lol: