Why are my SPS browning up?

[pscheel]

Also I do not have much polyp exyension. Parameters are:
SG 1.025
Nitrate 0
Amonia 0
Phosphates 0
Calcium 430
Alk 7.5 dkh
ph 8.0 in am 8.25 in pm
It is a 90 gal w/20 gal sump.
8x54 watt T5's Nova Extreme fixture
Powerheads 2x MJ1200 with hydor flo defectors and 2x Tunze 6045 nanostreams.

Do you think the cause is low alk or is my lighting insufficient? All SPS are in the upper third of the aquarium and growing at a good rate. They are just not keeping color.

[reefnetworth]

Alk to 11dKH
Ca to 450-465ppm
what type sps?... acros need MH
Montis can do well with T-5's
Amino Acids with vitamins (Seachem)
good luck, have a great weekend.
JDM...:cool:

[pscheel]

I try raising my alk using B-ionic and it raises my ph to 8.35. I dose it slowly. How can I raise Alk and keep my ph at 8.3? Do you think my flow is ok?

[Aquaticman74]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9725155#post9725155 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefnetworth
Alk to 11dKH
Ca to 450-465ppm
what type sps?... acros need MH
Montis can do well with T-5's
Amino Acids with vitamins (Seachem)
good luck, have a great weekend.
JDM...:cool:

There's nothing wrong with his alk or Ca and acro's can thrive just fine under a good set of T5's.

How long ago did you switch to that fixture?

[pscheel]

I started the tank with T5's and all my acros are in the upper third part of the tank. I have seen similar setups where the acros were thriving. I have good growth just losing color. I do have several Montis and they are doing fine. Thanks for helping so far.

[costa13]

Does dosing Amino Acids with vitamins (Seachem) help acros keep their color?

[UrbanSage]

I don't agree that you need MH for sps. But regardless of bulb type I think you need more light. What is the total GPH being moved in the tank?
Have you tested for magnesium? How often do you do water changes? How much do you change?

Maybe a tank picture?

[pscheel]

Approx. 2700g/h. Mag= 1250 and I do 10 gal bi-monthly water changes. I currently use IO. Would it help if I switch to Reef Crystals?

[2crazyreefers]

What do you have for flow ? Are you dosing during the day with lights on ? If so that will overshoot your PH which is not good.IMO dosing is done before lights on. Stability is key. I have Hallides over a 180 sps tank and T5 over a 75 sps tank both with good results. I dont feed anything except the fish.

[UrbanSage]

The salt really shouldn't have anything to do with it. In the most recent ReefKeeping issue there was something about what salt is used in tanks of the month. IO is very common.

[pscheel]

See original post for flow. I dose B-Ionic part 1 via auto top off. 40 ml per 1 gallon of replacement water which equals my evaporation rate/day. I just pour 40ml of part 2 into the sump.

[Froggy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9725155#post9725155 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefnetworth
Alk to 11dKH
Ca to 450-465ppm
what type sps?... acros need MH
Montis can do well with T-5's
Amino Acids with vitamins (Seachem)
good luck, have a great weekend.
JDM...:cool:

I cannot disagree with this more.........

What type of SPS are they ? Some SPS can be very difficult to color up. Are they wild SPS, aquacultured, tank raised ? Certain species of SPS tend to have a tendency to brown out in home tanks more than others.

Generally SPS that are browning out is a result of too many nutrients, lack of lighting or inadequate / improper flow. Are these SPS established in your tank for a while?

[RichConley]

alk is a smidge on the lowside...my stuff starts to brown as soon as I go below 8.


You dont have nearly enough flow for Acros though

[pscheel]

I really don't think it is the flow since i am getting good growth. So I'm thinking it could be the alk. How do I raise it without raising the ph?

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9727459#post9727459 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
alk is a smidge on the lowside...my stuff starts to brown as soon as I go below 8.


You dont have nearly enough flow for Acros though

How about nutrients? I'd guess that before flow for browning.

[Rhodesholar]

To keep up ALK use Randys two part. Basically 1 1/4 cups of baking soda in a gallon of water. Dose slowly till you reach your alk level. Then just add to maintain.

Here is link:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#11

I find my reef does better at 11 DKH. There is nothing wrong with 7.5 DKH "IF" the test is accurate, and that level remains stable. If the test is off by 1DKH low then that puts you in a danger zone.

As far as your acros browning, IMO it's light in your case. Not that the T-5 can't grow Acros but it is either bulb color, age, or intensity.

[costa13]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9727169#post9727169 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Froggy
I cannot disagree with this more.........


Generally SPS that are browning out is a result of too many nutrients, lack of lighting or inadequate / improper flow.

If you do have too many nutrients in your tank, then how do you lower them?

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9728374#post9728374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by costa13
If you do have too many nutrients in your tank, then how do you lower them?

Not overstocking with fish, properly sized skimmer, correct flow keeping "stuff" suspended while it gets transfered to the skimmer.

[chirocato]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9725155#post9725155 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefnetworth
what type sps?... acros need MH
Montis can do well with T-5's


Acros will do fine with an appropriate set of T5's. Focus on your Alk (over 9 IMHO) and as low PO4 as possible and very high flow for starters (I like 30 x turnover or more).

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9727985#post9727985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pscheel
I really don't think it is the flow since i am getting good growth. So I'm thinking it could be the alk. How do I raise it without raising the ph?

Why are you worried about raising your PH? In fact dropping down to 8.0 at night is a bad thing and shooting for as high as 8.6 would be better. Keep in mind that the average PH in the areas where corals are collected is reported to be about 8.45. Aiming a little high like we do with calcium and alkalinity is better than being low.

So... raise your PH so it falls to 8.3 min. and raise your alkalinity to 10-12. This can be done using recipe #1 in the link above about Randy's 2 part.

T-5 can absolutely grow and color up Acropora. The right setup can easily rival MH lighting in that regard. But keep something in mind, your Nova system doesn't have individual reflectors which will reduce the light dramatically compared to a setup that does have them. To counter this a little make sure you replace your bulbs a little more often (maybe every 8-10 months) and use bulbs like the ATI that have a higher par rating. Changes your bulbs gradually so you don't bleach things.

Lastly, run carbon for at least a few days every month to make sure yellowing compounds are eliminated. It's best to do so in a reactor rather than just a bag sitting in the sump. Growing some Chaeto for additional nutrient export is a good idea as well if you're not doing so already.

[pscheel]

Ok. I am going to increase my alk. One last question on my bulbs. I currently have 4x10000k and 4x460nm. Would it be better with this configuration? 2x6700k, 2x10000k, 2x460nm and 2x420nm giving it a wider spectrum. Thanks for the help so far.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9729502#post9729502 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pscheel
Ok. I am going to increase my alk. One last question on my bulbs. I currently have 4x10000k and 4x460nm. Would it be better with this configuration? 2x6700k, 2x10000k, 2x460nm and 2x420nm giving it a wider spectrum. Thanks for the help so far.

I would ditch those bulbs and get some ATI bulbs. A combo of 2x Aqua Blue, 2 x Blue Plus, 2 x UVL Actinic, and 2 x 6000k-6500k GE or Geismann would look nice, give you a broader spectrum, and increase your par rating. If your bulbs are less than 6 months old maybe just get the 4 ATI bulbs and keep two of your current actinics and two of your daylights for now. Also, don't forget to only replace a couple bulbs every couple weeks to avoid having bleaching problems.

[dhoch]

Well I also think that you need more light.

2 things about the nova extreme:

1) No individual reflectors... this is HUGE difference when it comes to light.

2) They also often have an acrylic shield which cut's down the light.

Now T5 is more than enough to grow great and colorful SPS...

Don't belive me? Check this out: (my tank featured at the WAMAS TOTM: http://www.wamas.org/totm_previous.php?prev=totm-2007-03.html

Dave

[cabowabo]

Not opening is usually a seperate issue than just browning.
If they brown but look healthy it's almost always lighting.Lighting is OK for them to grow a bit and do well just not display the color you would like.This is do to the coral using more zooxanthele(spelling) to receive the most light possible across it's entire surface area and these are brown in color.
I had this problem with Acros using 175 watt halides and upgraded to 250's and they colored right up.
Don't worry about a ph of 8.35. The upper end is better than the lower end i.e. 8.0. My experience has been best with staying from 8.25(lowest) to 8.5(highest). These are just my experiences and keeping PH in those parameters is always easier said than done.
If bright colored SPS is your hot button, upgrade to the highest wattage Metal Halide you can.
Again easier said than done, It's all just money!! Good luck.

[UrbanSage]

Have you seen signs of red bugs? Just a thought....

[pscheel]

No signs of any red bugs. Any ideas if I can put in the individual reflectors and still keep 8 bulbs in the Nova Extreme fixtures?

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9731616#post9731616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pscheel
No signs of any red bugs. Any ideas if I can put in the individual reflectors and still keep 8 bulbs in the Nova Extreme fixtures?

The bulbs are still too close together. I would say a 6 bulb tek light or SLS 6 bulb retrofit would be brighter than your current 8 bulb setup. If you consider you're going to have to replace an extra 2 bulbs a year, you're using more electricity, and you should probably replace your bulbs anyhow... You might want to just get the new lighting, in a few years it will probably just about pay for itself, a lot sooner if you sell the Nova system.

[pscheel]

Anyone have any experience with this light?
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CU-USA01077&Category_Code=Current-H
I am also thinking about the aqualight pro but I think I prefer the T5's supplementing the metal halides instead of the PC's.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9732857#post9732857 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pscheel
Anyone have any experience with this light?
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CU-USA01077&Category_Code=Current-H
I am also thinking about the aqualight pro but I think I prefer the T5's supplementing the metal halides instead of the PC's.

I wouldn't be so quick to ditch the T5s if you like the way your tank looks. The Aquatinics or any of the SLS systems are quite good and would save you a lot of money over the systems you're looking at.

On another note, if you're going to do MH I would go with a 2x250w system.

[pscheel]

Peter, would this fixture improve my lighting?
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SL-960045&Category_Code=SunlightT5

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9728189#post9728189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
How about nutrients? I'd guess that before flow for browning. \

Might be, but getting adaquate flow has a way of fixing nutrient issues.

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9733033#post9733033 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
\

Might be, but getting adaquate flow has a way of fixing nutrient issues.

True.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9732985#post9732985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pscheel
Peter, would this fixture improve my lighting?
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SL-960045&Category_Code=SunlightT5

Yes, but it will be a little wider than your tank. Also, I'd suggest ordering it from reefgeek.com and upgrading to Icecap reflectors for a couple bucks each.

[davidryder]

<a href="http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/eb/index.php">Refer to Myth #12</a>