Aqua Euro USA Recirc 265 Skimmer Review

[hahnmeister]

Lets get right into it. We sorta know what to expect with this product.... or do we?

The categories for a skimmer review:
1. Shipping/Packing/Assembly
2. Quality of Body/Construction
a. materials
b. engineering
3. Quality of pumps (if included/needlewheel)
a. materials
b. engineering
c. performance (wattage, heat, lph of air)
d. specs
4. Performance w/ skimmate
5. Price/performance ratio or value
6. Modding

1. Shipping was great. Reefnut has been very responsive (constant updates on the order sent to my email). The box/packaging was sturdy as with other skimmers from this company. There was no invoice, or receipt. All I have as proof of purchase here is my Paypal receipt.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer1.jpg
Of note, there is some extra piping included with the skimmer. The skimmer as shown on the Aqua Euro and Reefnut sites doesnt show a standpipe on the outlet, just a valve. Well, there is piping included for the standpipe, and enough extra so you can plumb it externally away from a sump if needed.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer2.jpg

Assembly was easy. The pipes for the pump are clearly marked with stickers as to how they go together. Everything is pretty easy to figure out, and putting it all together is no more than tightening all the unions (there are a few). When in question, they included this useless diagram/spec sheet...
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer10.jpg
This is a joke, but really all you need are the stickers on the pipes. Better instructions would be a good idea though. There is nothing on warranty, electrical hazards, etc. This is pretty standard with anything electronic at least. Im shocked there is nothing like this.

2. The body is great. The Acrylic on the main pipe looks like 1/4" thick, and is ALMOST 8" in diameter OD... something like 7.8" OD. All of the bonds are very nice, no bubbles, no defects or visual blemish/scratches. ALMOST, but not quite 8" OD... this means my plan for attaching a Barr Aquatics Flange will not fly, as they are made for 8" OD pipe... which this is not. Of note, the attachment points for the pipes to the body are all reinforced with additional acrylic, and the standpipe valve is supported with its own additional black acrylic piece. Everything has a very nice fit and polish to the edges. I would expect this of a Euroreef, H&S, etc.
This thing is built like a tank. Even the base of the main pipe, where it attaches to the bottom plate, has an additional 3/8" thick acrylic ring around it to provide a very strong attachment point.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer8.jpg
Performance wise, the body is built well. The recirculating design is a clone of what you might expect for a Euroreef CS-RC series. The piping is all sturdy, and the main collar/collection cup is very strong. So strong is the construction on this skimmer, I can pick up the while thing filled with about 5 gallons of water, by rim of the the cup and carry it around. Thats about 60 lbs people! But performance-wise, the transition/rediucer of the neck is nice, and the actual neck is about 8" tall and 3.5" OD... taller, narrower neck with good proportions.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer4.jpg
My only gripe is that the neck, being only 3.5" in diameter, is too narrow to get your hands into for cleaning, among other things. This skimmer needs a flange. This would also allow one to get inside easily to remove/cut out those silly 'T' outlet pieces on the main inlet, as well as on the mixing pump outlets. They are not the best idea. I would much rather prefer elbows with positionable outlets so I could either spin the insides, aim the outlets downwards, or just remove them all together. They look like they reduce turbulence, but they dont because they only split the pump's outputs only to recombine them as the outlets on the 'T's are lined up with each other in parallel. Waste of materials and space. At least they are sturdy.

[hahnmeister]

3. The pumps. They look like Gen-X clones (as if Gen-X's arent Pacific Coast Import Pumps themselves). The pumps are rated at 40 watts and 590gph.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer12.jpg
I hooked up a Kill-A-Watt, and ran the pumps w/o air, and found this to be false. Even with just a needlewheel impeller, they are running at 50 watts! I would hate to see what these things do with regular impellers... 60+ watts I bet.

With air, these pumps drop down to 30-33 watts. At least its under the 40watt rating.

The mufflers, like the ones on the AE Classic 400, are included with this skimmer as well. There are even little attachment points to hold the air hose and mufflers up by the transition to the neck. The hose is a 1/4"-3/8" ID silicone. Its nice, but kinks waaaay too easily. Ill be replacing with 3/8" water line.

The plumbing is substantial, thick, etc. The intake looks like so for the pump's 1" threaded inlet...
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer5.jpg
The venturis are similar to the Octopus ones... very restrictive, 1/4" (if that). Thats an easy mod though.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer6.jpg
The volute is pretty small, the impeller fills the pump's shroud at the edges, but not in thickness. You can add two or three layers of mesh/enkamat to the stock impeller w/o chopping it up even! Still, a larger diameter on the shroud/volute here would help.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer13.jpg
The thing I dont get is that the intake is 1", yet the outlet is 1/2" threaded. OUCH. Thats gotta hurt performance. This pump would seriously benefit from a 3/4" or 1" outlet. A mixing pump needs a restricted intake, not outlet.

So, I put the skimmer in the tub, ran hot water and softsoap through it for a while to get the oil out...
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer9.jpg
And made sure to wrinse it well.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer7.jpg
Then, I added saltwater + skimmate from another skimmer. About 3 cups from one of the nano-deltec skimmers I make.

In that last pic, note that the feed and the collection cup drains dont have valves on them. Not a huge deal... nothing for performance, but none of this plumbing is US-spec, so simply adding a valve to those unions is impossible. Having valves on these parts would be a good idea, as not everyone will plan on using the collection cup drain (and even if they do, being able to turn it closed when you are cleaning out the jug it drains to is a good idea). Having a valve on the feed is a good idea too... otherwise, quick disconnects are impossible without massive draining of the skimmer (inverting the whole thing!).

The skimmer is quiet, pumps run smooth, and dont seem hot or anything. Then I hooked up the Dwyer meter....
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer11.jpg
I took the pumps off the skimmer, and ran them free-flow right in the tank, and the best I could get was 10scfh! 8 scfh on the skimmer. Sure, there is some restriction from the meter itself, so 10/12 scfh then respective maybe. For those playing the Euro-team, 10 scfh is about 285 lph! 8 scfh is about 228lph, and 12, perhaps the best reading, is only 342 lph. OUCH. These pumps arent pulling what they are worth. Modding will be needed... an 8" diameter skimmer should have 1000lph, if not more. The 3/5" neck might limit us to 800-1000lph, but this skimmer is tanking at about 570lph! Thats a worse performance wattage/air intake rate than a venturi/beckett skimmer.

The pumps are solid, and like I said, run cool and quiet... but they just dont seem like the right pump for these skimmers. I just dont get it. The body is awesome, but the pumps are just blowing. If Shenzhen Honya, Octopus, and AquaEuro are going to copy pumps, why not copy Red Dragons (Laguna pond pumps by Askoll), or Tunze/ATI pumps made by Sicce... heck... even an eheim with a 1" outlet. Thats what Aqua-Excell is doing...
http://www.aquaexcel.cn/En_Product_new.asp
If I can get 18-20 scfh out of my 20 watt Aquaclear 802 mods, then these pumps should be at least 30-35 scfh.

4. Performance w/ skimmate. This part will have to wait, as I have just hooked up the skimmer. Based on its specs, I dont expect much.

5. Price: $219-269. Performance... well... those pumps blow. If you mod another pump on there, you might have a contender. The value is a hard one to pass up... Under $300 for an 8" diameter, 30" tall recirc skimmer seems hard to pass up on... but needlewheels are only as good as the pumps, and these pumps suck (or rather, dont). Some mods might add some value back to the skimmer, but for now, I gotta say, for the price, you get what you pay for.

6. Mods.

The simpler mods...
- contour the volute/intake on the pumps (like Octos)
- enlarge the air inlet on the venturi
- mesh mod
- replace air hose with 3/8" water line

The more complicated mods...
- enlarge the outlet of the pump
- enlarge the plumbing from the pump
- remove the 'T's on the pump outlets/skimmer feed, replace with movable elbows
- add a flange to the skimmer after chopping its top off
- put a valve on the pump intake line???

Others...
-Replace the pumps
-Remove the elbows on the outlets of the pumps and mount the pump's outlets directly on the skimmer body for less restriction.

Of these, so far I have done the simpler ones. I shaved out some of the volute, drilled out the air intake on the venturi, and added mesh to the impeller.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer14.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer15.jpg

What changed? Well... Im pulling 33 watts now, but still 10 scfh! So if anything, the mods have just allowed for more water to be moved by these pumps, but no more air. What could it be?

Well, I looked into restricting the venturis more while playing with the pumps. Turns out the pump's intake venturis are right where they should be... no more, no less. By restricting the intakes any further, the air intake drops. The mesh does little to nothing.

What could the missing link be? Well, even when running the pump's unrestricted in just a tank, the best was 10 scfh (12 maybe without the airflow meter's restriction).

The diameter/size of the volute, as well as the diameter of the outlet (1/2"!!!) are the two things I would consider the biggest flaws, and ones that cant be overcome w/o some serious pump modding or a whole new pump all together.

Stick around, Im ordering Gen-X 2400s/4100s to see how they do and if they might work.

Final Thoughts... those Orcas look pretty good right about now...lol.

Thanks to Ryan at Reefnut, and Cory and Steve for hooking me up with Reefnut. Right now, things look pretty dismal, but with further testing and modding, there may be a light at the end of the tunnel. Considering the price, one could buy one of these skimmers with the intent of simply drilling it out for an eheim or a coulple 4100s, and it would be a good value. Running in a stock configuration, this thing isnt worth it though... even at less than $300. Aqua Euro needs to go back and do some homework.
-enlarge the pump's outlets/outlet plumbing. Eliminate that elbow on the outlet and mount the pump's outlets right on the skimmer body. This also raises the level of the air inlet for less back-pressure on the venturi, and more air intake.
-enlarge the neck? 5" would be a good match, of course, this would mean larger pumps... but then a 5" neck would allow one to reach into the skimmer for cleaning/working on it.
-Scrap the silicone hose for the air intake... it kinks too easily. Regular 3/8" water line is plenty.
-Better pumps? Larger output diameter, larger volute.
-Get rid of those silly 'T's on the pump outlets/skimmer feed.
-Put valves on the main feed and the collection cup drain.

[46bfinGA]

Hell of a skimmer review. Good work.

[nebraskareef]

Thank you for the thorough review!

[luke33]

Haun, something i did with my venturi on my gen x 2400 is take a drill bit and actually hollow out the stock venturi nozzle. The right bit will bore it out quite a bit and allow more air to flow. I also drilled another ventui into it to allow more air flow as well, so there 's two tubes. This still isn't enough air imo. I will be modding it to even more air flow. If you actually take off the output and let it run without a venturi and hold the air tube in front of it......it will pull so much air its unbelievable so there is lots of room for improvement.

[HoopsGuru]

I have forwarded the review to AEUSA.

[normanviking]

Hahn those are the same pumps as on the 4oo right? I thought that the ones on the 400 were modded and sucking much more air? Great review by the way. Can't wait to see the after specs.

[kodyboy]

I thought someone had recorded those pumps at 400-450lph? 228lph is not good........

[kodyboy]

Awesome review by the way:)

[steve414]

Great review Jon!

[steve the plumb]

very good review hahn.I like the fact that you were honest.I don't see the review as a bash.You stated all positives an negatives.What would the cost of the skimmer be if you did replace those pumps with the gen-x.How hard would it be to refit the pumps?46 bfin your mail box is full.I tryed to respond to your pm

[carlisimo1969]

Tagging along, mine should be arriving this week.

[JRaquatics]

Haun, Great review, love the details. I can't wait to see the results on your tank. I was wondering what type of Dwyer meter do you have or what is a good one. I would like to get one and test my 135 classic.

[HoopsGuru]

You measured the standard needlewheel pump at 14scfh at Corey's house, did you expect the slightly (at least according to the photos) different style of the recirc to be less? If they are gen-x clones, why is modding not helping but using gen-x pumps will?

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9693149#post9693149 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Sorry, been busy today so far. I can spend some time responding now.

Okay, two pumps, pulling identical numbers, and not exactly ones that are that far off from before.

I went to nait's with the same air meter a few weeks ago, and came up with those earlier numbers. At the time though, the meter was bouncing all over the place.

prugs (Gem Tang Rider) made some custom venturis that nait was trying out on his pumps. The venturis were 'pulsing' though... this is when the pump chokes on its own air intake, then purges the air, then creates a huge suction, and then chokes on its own air... over and over again. The sound of the air intake pulses, and so does the air meter. So getting an exact idea of the airflow was very hard because the meter was bouncing all over the place. I took a average of where the meter was bouncing around, and also figured in the performance Euroreef was claiming with their Gen-X-2400 needlewheels. Thats how I came up with those earlier numbers... they were educated guesses.

This time, the air meters were not bouncing at all... they were hovering in place so I could even take a pic. Now, there is a slight restriction on the intake due to the meter, and Dwyer does include instructions with the meter to try to figure this out, but since this is not a force fed system (its a vacuum rather than pressure calculation which gets ugly w/o a meter on that too), its pretty hard to figure out exactly. Based on what others have gotten, and what I have tested on other pumps, adding an extra 2 scfh to whatever I get with this meter is more than fair.

Also, keep in mind that I ran these pumps with regular venturis, then modded... on the skimmer, and then in the top 6" of a tank, and the results were all about the same. I varied the depth of the pumps, the restriction on the intake (no, the stock venturis are right on the money it turns out), the air inlet diameter, removed the plumbing, and even did a meshwheel... nothing. That means there is a limiting factor somewhere. No amount of modding anything else will do anything until this factor is changed. Having a car that can go 200mph means nothing when you are in heavy traffic on a 60mph road... got it?

No doubt that the 400 gets slightly more airflow than the 265... the 400 is a much shorter skimmer. But the numbers being so similar is an oddity. Of all the variables that can be manipulated, and that I have here, none have had a significant effect on the output of these pumps. This is no shocker, as in the modding circles, Gen-X 2400s are known to be poor pumps to play with... and now I think I may know why. The two variables that didnt change and that seem to be the restricting factors for these pumps are...

-the volute/impeller shroud. Its barely larger than the impeller itself. Look at the top needlewheel performers... Red Dragons, Sicce, and even the eheims... larger volutes. But I have seen pumps with volutes this size that can do much better... so although I would consider it a limiting factor at some point, the limiting factor with these pumps (even the mesh mod with 2 or 3 layers of enkamat didnt do a thing) is...

- the 1/2" threaded outlet diameter. Are you kidding me? Thats something that I would expect from a pressure rated pump, not a flow pump or a needlewheel. This pump should have a 3/4" outlet, if not 1"!!!

The fact that even with the custom venturis by prugs, that this was too much air for the pumps to run, was further proof of this. These pumps just cant handle more air even if you give it to them as easily as possible.

Im not 100% sure, but maybe someone with a real Gen-X 2400 can compare... I think the outlet on a 2400 is 3/4" even. If that is the case, then these pumps would be alot like the Octos... somewhere in the cloning process, they made the outlets one size too small.

Just consider this... Those Aquaclear mods I made in the 'pimp my pump' thread are getting up to about 18scfh at 20 watts! Not bad, eh? Well, I made custom volutes/shrouds (2.25" diameter and 1" thick... huge for a 20watt powerhead!), and enlarged the intake/outlet to 3/4"! And even at that, I was getting 14scfh on the meter. Then I went even larger, with 1" inlets and outlets, and the througput went up to 18 scfh at 22 watts!

Currently, I am working on a DIY version of the Red Dragon pumps... as they are just Laguna pond pumps with retrofitted custom machined volutes and a needlewheel impeller. Thats easy to reproduce with some PVC. But these guys will have 1" if not 1.5" plumbing by the time Im done.

[hahnmeister]

luke33, the limiting factor isnt the venturi however. Prugs made custom venturis like he uses on his larger Gen-Xs (think he uses 4100s?) and the result was no more air, and the pump was choking/pulsing. I bored out my air ports to over 1/4" on the inlet and the outlet... no improvement at all.

JRaquatics, I am using a Dwyer RMB-51D (3-20scfh) , which shows scfh and lpm. I also have RMB-50D (1-10scfh), RMB-52D (5-50scfh) and a RMC-102 (10-100scfh). These meters allow me to measure with better accuracy any pump that does 2-100 scfh. I also have a RMC-121, but as of yet, there isnt a skimmer I have come across that could use it. Of those, I would suggest the RMB-51D and the RMB-52D for most people's applications here.

Hoops, I think I accounted for the 14scfh estimate from before. Those venturis that prugs had on there were throwing things off. I did the pumps in an open reef tank, in 6" of water as well, to eliminate the plumbing and height of the recirc 265 from the equasion in my testing.

Thanks for emailing the results to AE. I see that Honya does offer custom services, and so maybe changing out the pumps for something slightly better would be a quick and easy fix. Swapping the dual pumps (and all that seemingly wasted plumbing) for a single Gen-X 6000 clone would be a great fix. Possibly even just mounting the pump right up at the inlet so there are no elbows on the outlet either. Then we would be able to get 35-40 scfh on this skimmer... no problem.

Gen-X 2400s are part of a great line of pumps for needlewheels, but not great pumps themselves. The 4100, 6000, and 8500 have been favorites... easily modded with great results. Most modders stay away from the 2400 though. Not sure on the outlet diamter thing, but perhaps the only reason ER uses it on their 5" diameter skimmers is that they may customize it... as in bore out the outlet. That may be how they get 500lph out of it.

Ill keep tinkering and see what I come up with.

[hahnmeister]

Well, I did some more tinkering, and this pump has me stumped!

I ran the pump w/o the outlet plumbing on it at all... just the 1/2" threaded outlet without even the connector in it... That gives a slightly larger outlet diamter. No improvement, meshwheel or regular.

I ran the pump w/o the intake venturi... just ran the airline right into the pump. Still... 10 scfh!

Maybe it is the volute... Nothing I do seems to change the output of these pumps.

BTW, w/ the meshwheel and the air off, the pump did get up to 60 watts, not 40. Just like the octos, these pumps are clones that are not as good as the originals.

[HoopsGuru]

O.k. hahn, I am going to put together a "wish list" to try to push through AEUSA. If you had a choice, what would you do for the pump? Switch it out to something different completely, or what if they could be manufactured with a 1" inlet AND outlet? I already understand the plumbing changes with eliminating elbows, etc.

[Rwinfrey]

how about thoase nice looking needle wheel pumps that HYDOR makes for there proformer series what do you think Hahn & Hoops

[hahnmeister]

A different pump would be better... something like dual Gen-X 4100s, or even a single 6000 would put this skimmer in direct competition with some larger makes like Euroreef. As of right now, the 1" outlets on the 2400s may not make a huge difference... the tinkering Im doing suggests it may be something else as well.

The 4100s ARE proven though... 20lpm with a meshmod.
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=966407
They were favorites (along with the 6000) for Euroreef as well up until their recent switch to eheims.

If you were to plumb them to the side, then you would cut out alot of that plumbing bulk/cost. Making the plumbing all 1", even the attachment point to the skimmer, would be great.

A larger diameter neck would go hand-in-hand with that then.... something more like 5" in diameter rather than 3.5". Then you can get your hands in there. Replacing the 'T's on the outlets with lose-fitting 90's/45 elbows would be better. And then valves on the main feed and collection cup drain. This wouldnt be a big deal if the fittings were US, but they arent. They are metric... so its impossible unless you always want to have a length of hose hanging off the side.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9694367#post9694367 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rwinfrey
how about thoase nice looking needle wheel pumps that HYDOR makes for there proformer series what do you think Hahn & Hoops

Those hydors look like they are using Seltz pumps...
http://www.hydor.it/inglese/performer.htm

Not that much better than a Gen-X really (a good Gen-X)

Yeah, the 2400s just dont seem to be good ideas... look at powdertang.5's post...
http://www.3reef.com/forums/protein-skimmers/needle-wheel-pump-recommendation-36597.html

"yes the genx pumps card good some are ok one is the best the 4100 is the best used by GEO,euroreef so they are much better then the smaller ones but ive also had good luck with the 1500 the 1000 and the 2400 are not worth it. ALSO have had good luck with the sedra pumps and the new ehiem are suppose to knock the crap out of anything in the market when it finally comes out im buting it for my ASM when it comes out."

If you look around, you can find 100 other posts like that as well.

I would just suggest a larger pump. Being that AE is making Gen-X clones, thats where I would start. A 4100 clone with a 1" outlet would be great. The AquaEuro 1000 might be a good place to start.

[Rwinfrey]

Hahn I have contacted AE before and they said they wanted all the suggestions they could get from people like you.Maybee you should contact them directly not that hoops can't forward it but maybee you and the tech's there can bounce some idea's off of each other.

[skwirl]

hahn.. on the 400 do you think replacing 1 of the pumps with the 4100 would do alot of good? or even the 6000? also do you think 3 4100's would be too much for the 400?

[luke33]

skwirl, 3 4100's would be to much for this skimmer. Two 4100's modded would be to much almost. They can pull alot of air and the neck for this guy isn't large enough to handle it imo. See what hauh has to say.

[skwirl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9695332#post9695332 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
skwirl, 3 4100's would be to much for this skimmer. Two 4100's modded would be to much almost. They can pull alot of air and the neck for this guy isn't large enough to handle it imo. See what hauh has to say.

on the classic 400??

ok what would be the cheapest most effective way to give400 all it can handle.. i dont care about watts , just performance... maybe mod some non nw pumps? if so which ones, or octopus pumps, maybe 1 genx 6000 and the 2 stock pumps? that would be easy to do..

[luke33]

I'm thinking one genx6000 would do on the 400, but thats all mo. The neck is to small to take a ton of air. Two 4100's.....someone would have to give that a try, but i think without serious probs a 6000 would work with a mesh mod and do lots better than the 3x pumps it comes with. Time will tell my friend.

[hahnmeister]

one 6000, or two 4100s... the 400 should handle that.

Well, a warning to others who have bought the AE265. The 1/2" threaded insert to connect the pump output to the union leaks. Both of mine have a constant drip, even with the silicone o-ring in place. So you must add teflon tape here to the threading, or you will get this...
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer16.jpg
A slow, constant drip.

Otherwise, the skimmer is breaking in nicely...
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer17.jpg

[powdertang05]

yup as i said really really badly on 3reef the 4100's are the best i did mod the 1500 and it does alot better then the 1000 and the 2400 seems to have more power to move it. ive moved the 4100 way before the post on reefcentral and also the 6000 and they do the job as good or better.

[skwirl]

that skimmer looks good

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Hahn, knowing what you know now about the 265 recirc, what would be the largest sized aquarium you would put it on unmodded? I know that is a loaded question, but lets just say that you were interested in keeping it full of SPS with an average bioload.

I ask because I just purchased the 135 recirc (upgrading from the CSS 125) to use on my new 40 gallon aquarium. I am wondering whether it would be necessary for me to add another pump.

[luke33]

Aninja, you are more than fine with that skimmer on a 40g. I would imo suggest a 75-90g or less.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Do you think it will outperform the CSS 125, because I ran that on my 53 gallon and did not think it pulled enough? (I also have an attached 40 gallon refugium which holds macro and a peacock mantis, but I would think that it is a net nutrient sink than an addition to the bioload).

[chips94]

I have a 120 with a 30 gal sump, which would you recommend for me? Thanks for any help you can give!

[luke33]

Aninja, it will skim circles around the css125....not even comparable.

Chips, the recirc 265, NW 250 or 400 classic should work fine for your setup imo.

[rgrimal]

I had the same problem with the leaky outlet and broke both trying to tighten them up fixed with superglue and silcone on the threads

[keinreis]

skwirl empty your PM's.. LOL now back on topic

[mg426]

Most anything will skim circles around a CSS anything. Anyone using a AE 250 liking what they are seeing ??

[kodyboy]

I was looking at an AE 250 at an LFS and it was working great!

[mg426]

They seem like a pretty good looking Peice to me. I am looking at a 250 pretty hard.

[carlisimo1969]

My new toy showed up yesterday! Sorta like Christmas, considering the 5 inches of new snow. Still waiting for the new supply pump, so I can't install for a few days. I think I'll just leave it sitting on the kitchen table til then...as a decorative center-piece.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234New_Toy.jpg

Thanks for the excellent product review hahnmeister. I'm thinking it's oversized enough for my setup that I'll be trying it un-modded initially...but I'll be watching your results closely and may end up trying some down the line.

[luke33]

Carllisimo, you could do the meshmod while you wait for your feeder pump. Thats pretty much a standard in my eyes these days for the NW pumps.

[carlisimo1969]

That's true, I may have to go hunt for some of the mesh over my lunch hour. Can it be found at Home Depot or Menards?

[luke33]

Nope, if you search ebay for enkamat 4, you should be able to find it for around 6.50 shipped to your door for a 8x8 piece. They unfortunately don't sell it at low's or HD. Bummer, i know. I'll be going there today at lunch to get some DIY rock supplies! lol

[andyjd]

So what is the difference between this an the Octopus ? is either a better buy/skimmer?

Andy

[HoopsGuru]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9706448#post9706448 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Carllisimo, you could do the meshmod while you wait for your feeder pump. Thats pretty much a standard in my eyes these days for the NW pumps.

According to Hahn's review though, the mesh mod did not increase the performance of the pump.

Carlisimo....if you set it up externally, do let us know if you also have a slow drip leak from the output unions (unless you already have them taped).

[kodyboy]

Andy,
From what I have seen I prefer the aquaeuros to the octopus, but they are very similiar.

[carlisimo1969]

I will be plumbing it externally but I've already tape the threaded connections out of habit. I'll report more detail as I get to the hookup stage. I have to say the thing is absolutely built like a tank.

[luke33]

Hoops, i have never seen a meshmod that made zero difference. IMO, that's impossible. The air flow might be the same but the bubbles will be smaller which in return would cause more surface area giving more reaction time=more skimmate. The air will not change unless the venturi does on this particular skimmer according to haun.

[mg426]

It would be pretty usefull if someone were able to give a direct comparison of an Octopus vrs an Aqua Euro.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Just an FYI, I measured the AE recirc 135 and it does not stand at 26.5" as it is listed at Reefnut. It is about 23.5" tall. The diameter listed is correct however. The fact that it is shorter is better for me anyhow as I was worried it wouldn't fit under my stand.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, the inside diameter of the neck is 2.5"

[HoopsGuru]

Hmm, can anyone verify the recirc 135 height (not that you can't measure or that these might be all over the place, but I would like at least 2 to be sure before I change my site). Thanks for taking the time to relay the dimensions.

Luke33....gotcha, me no smart about the modding stuff ;)

[Whaledriver]

Just to toss out some ideas onto a good thread.
I would put aquarium silicon on the fittings before they get put together. This works much better than Teflon thread and is still easy to remove.

I wonder if the extra play of the impeller assembly/magnet on the shaft limits output? This might lead to the output flow of the impeller not lining up with the output volute. I noticed there is a lot of room to move the impeller assembly up and down the shaft when the rubber endcaps are on.

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, but I added 2 layers of enkamat to the top, and one layer to the backside of the impeller and NO improvement. Perhaps its just the volute size after all. I get mesh modding and all wont do much because the impellers are almost as large in diameter as the actual impeller shroud/volute. I bet we could trim back the impellers and get the same, if not better results. I know it sounds odd, but when you re-evaluate how a needlewheel works, you will realize that the impeller doesnt need to be so large... in this case, it may take up space in the volute that would otherwise go to a larger air capacity. The impeller, three layers of enkamat, etc... just takes away room from the air/water volume of the volute. Im still doing the skimmate eval, and Im not sure what I want to do next, but well see.

[luke33]

Yea haun, i cut the impeller down on my genx2400 nw, it was to large. I agree with you there. I also have two layers of enkamat, three was to much for me.

[Blazer88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9708304#post9708304 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aninjaatemyshoe
Just an FYI, I measured the AE recirc 135 and it does not stand at 26.5" as it is listed at Reefnut. It is about 23.5" tall. The diameter listed is correct however. The fact that it is shorter is better for me anyhow as I was worried it wouldn't fit under my stand.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, the inside diameter of the neck is 2.5"

Doh! I just bought the Recirc 110 because I didn't think this one would fit. Is it really only 23.5" tall? I think it would be worth the upgrade to this skimmer over the Octo 110 since this one has a larger diameter. Can you verify the height?

[allykahn]

Why not measure all of these AquaEuro skimmers for their correct height and post it here and on Reefnut. The same thing happened with ASM skimmers as most sites had incorrect information. Just an idea.

[nebraskareef]

I will be measuring my classic 250 soon.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I'm positive that my AE recirc 135 is 23.5" tall from the bottom of the base to the top of the skimmer cup.

I believe that skimmer body alone makes this thing worth the money, especially with the current sale! It is alot wider than most recirculating skimmers in the same price range. I don't know much about how many pumps/LPH of air is appropriate for a given size, but I know there is plenty of room to add another recirc pump to the 135 if you wanted.

[Blazer88]

I can't believe it. I just hooked up my Octo 110 yesterday when I could have gone with the AE 135 for the same exact price, grr. Can you check the footprint on that as well? The site has it listed as 16.2in. x 7in.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Footprint is correct, seems that only the height was mis-listed.

[skwirl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9706441#post9706441 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by carlisimo1969
My new toy showed up yesterday! Sorta like Christmas, considering the 5 inches of new snow. Still waiting for the new supply pump, so I can't install for a few days. I think I'll just leave it sitting on the kitchen table til then...as a decorative center-piece.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234New_Toy.jpg

Thanks for the excellent product review hahnmeister. I'm thinking it's oversized enough for my setup that I'll be trying it un-modded initially...but I'll be watching your results closely and may end up trying some down the line.

dont leave it sitting there...
get a tub or something, and run it in vinegar water, or old tank water so it can be breaking in while its sitting there.. ask hahn if the softsoap bath works. that way when you install it, it will be skimming sooner.

[steve the plumb]

Either you are very tall or the room is very short!

[steve414]

Nice pic very funny!! I was like that when I got my skimmer

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9706441#post9706441 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by carlisimo1969
My new toy showed up yesterday! Sorta like Christmas, considering the 5 inches of new snow. Still waiting for the new supply pump, so I can't install for a few days. I think I'll just leave it sitting on the kitchen table til then...as a decorative center-piece.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234New_Toy.jpg

Thanks for the excellent product review hahnmeister. I'm thinking it's oversized enough for my setup that I'll be trying it un-modded initially...but I'll be watching your results closely and may end up trying some down the line.

[luke33]

Steve...good catch, looks like his head it touching! lol, great pic!

[steve414]

That's a good ol wisconsin house.

[carlisimo1969]

Yup, it's a combo of 1970 low ceilings, my 6'4" body, and my 5'2" wife/photog...or I'm just a big happy lumbering goon.

The utility sink in the basment will be busy starting tonight. I'll start with the softsoap bath, then switch to the tank water this weekend. I've got a mag250 to rig up as a feed pump for the cleaning and break in.

[luke33]

Hahn, what do you think about meshing out your feed pump and having a venturi on it? Do many do this, sounds like a good idea to me, only adds more air, you'll get one more pump adding air to the skimmer this way.

[Blazer88]

I was wondering the same exact thing...any reason to mesh the feed pump?

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9712165#post9712165 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Hahn, what do you think about meshing out your feed pump and having a venturi on it? Do many do this, sounds like a good idea to me, only adds more air, you'll get one more pump adding air to the skimmer this way.

You could... but about the largest thing you would want to mesh would be about 200-300gph... a Maxi-Jet. And we all know how little they can make... about 150-180 lph at most. Whoopie.

Im not going to... my intention all along is to use the skimmer as an overflow weir, plumbed directly from the tank's overflow. This is to cut down on noise actually... the water level only drops from 56" above the ground in the tank, to 52" in the overflow, then to about 36" above the ground in the skimmer... a drop of only 16 inches so minimal air is sucked in if any. Then, the outlet of the skimmer, at about 33", only drops to the sump's refugium water level about 18" above the ground... a drop of only about 15" again. These minimal drops keep the drain quiet, and the bubbles and salt-spray under control.

Thats how I like to run a skimmer... splice it into the overflow as an 'air brake' like those overflow boxes I used to make of the same nature. So if I were to use this AquaEuro skimmer as my skimmer for this tank, I would have to put it on a box about 18" high. Or, Ill just get a 4' tall skimmer (water level about 36" high is ideal for my tank).

Oh, and if anyone else does this, be sure your overflow has a backup drain. My overflow box has dual 1" drains... one with the feed to the skimmer controlled by a valve at the skimmer, and the other as a backup or bypass when that valve starts to clog. This also means all I have to do is shut off the skimmer's feed valve when I want to remove the skimmer from the overflow, as the backup drain will then take over.

[skwirl]

hahn... is it skimming yet? post sime pics...

[hahnmeister]

No, no skimmate yet... Even with all the skimmate I dumped in that bucket its running off of... Hmm...

Maybe Ill connect it to one of the tanks and then dump extra skimmate from the others into that tank. Might be a tank chemistry thing.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I just installed my Recirc 135 and I already got some good foam production... maybe my system is in good need of some skimming.

[skwirl]

well hahn.. dont feel lonely.. mine isnt skimming, or foaming yet... i can tell its trying to though.. shouldnt be long now

[Blazer88]

Is there a thread for the 135 yet? I was thinking of ordering it to replace my Octo recirc 110 since the AE has a larger diamter and larger pump. But if you guys are getting any skimmate yet...

[aninjaatemyshoe]

At this point I would definately recommend the AE recirc 135. It may need some adjustments here and there, but it is well worth the money.

[skwirl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9720557#post9720557 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aninjaatemyshoe
At this point I would definately recommend the AE recirc 135. It may need some adjustments here and there, but it is well worth the money.

post some pics...

[carlisimo1969]

Last night the new AE265 got a bath. It ran all night in the mild soapy water.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234Bathtime.JPG

The supply pump showed up today, so I rinsed well and double checked all connections and hooked it up next to the sump. (temporary location)
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234hooked_up.JPG

Everything seems to be working well. It's very quiet, and no leaks. I did use plenty of teflon tape on every threaded connection. I'll check again in the a.m. Lots of milky turbulance. The supply pump is a ViaAqua 1800 with a ball valve right at the input point of the skimmer.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234closeup.JPG

Have some beer, and let the break-in period begin! Time 9:40pm.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234Skimmer_with_beer.JPG

[carlisimo1969]

Here we are just 24hrs into the break-in period and we've got some foam!
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234Pie_Topping-med.JPG
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234Gusher.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234See_Thru.jpg
It's running without leaks and adjusts easily. Still running un-modded. I love this skimmer.

[skwirl]

are the measurements accurate is it the full 30" tall?

[carlisimo1969]

skwirl,
It's 29 & 7/8ths...round up and it's a full 30 inches.
Getting any skimmate yet?

[HoopsGuru]

Looking for a foam update from any of the recirc owners.

[skwirl]

mine is skimming now... it has a couple of times, but i keep messing with it, and then it takes a while to start back.. you cantell its not all the way broken in, but i let run about 10 hours night before last, and i got about a pint- pint and 1/2 in 10 hours, and it was med in color.. not wet, but not dry dark.. you couldnt see through it at all..

[carlisimo1969]

My 265 is skimming well, a little under 2 inches in the milk jug. I'm also having a hard time keeping my hands off, tweaking is fun. I'll try and get a couple pics up on Friday night for a full one week report.

[skwirl]

it wouldnt be fair to the skimmer to do a full week report for me, because i have my hands in the water the whole time after work for one reason or another, so its only been skimming about half the time.. but its getting to where its starting back skimming in a matter of minutes, so next week i may start doing reports..

[Nick A]

I've been looking at this skimmer for my 240g which will be mostly sps later in the year. I would go for the 400 classic but my sump doesn't allow the footprint and I want something that I can run externally so that I can have a larger refugium.

Does anyone know if AE will be making something similar to the Octopus TDNW-300? Its basically a 400 classic turned into a recirc. I would love to get the AE version if they created it.

I've also noticed that the DDNW-250 has a chamber that is 2" wider than the AE265 while some have said the two are practically identical.

[hahnmeister]

I would NOT consider this skimmer to be enough for a tank of 240g. I would have a hard time suggesting it for anything larger than 100g, maybe 150 tops.

[zoozimmy]

wow

[Nick A]

Yeah, I was pretty much thinking its not enough for my tank even though they rated it at that high. Possibly the Octopus version would work since it has a 10" chamber. I wonder why many manufacturers overrate their skimmers. Also at marinesolutions they claim the TDNW-300 is good up to 300 gallons while other Octo's like the NW-200 are rated for the same size.

I think now I'll be aiming for a TDNW-300 :D and not have to worry about anything, lol.

[kodyboy]

maybe a simple GEX pump switch (maybe 2 2400s or one 6000 nw) would allow the 265 recirc to handle (or easily handle?) a 240 gallon aquarium. Not sure. Maybe one of the king 590s could be used as a feed pump?
Hahn what do you think, as you own this skimmer?
In addition what do you think about changing one of the 590s on a classic 400 with a genx6000 nw to maximize its potential and simple leaving the other two 590s?

[gebrony]

well i just placed an order for the re circ 135 so i guess i will be subscribing

[carlisimo1969]

:beer: One week on the dot...9:30pm last Friday night I fired up the new AE265 (plumbed externally). I had foam production within 24hrs and it's still working great. I've harvested 5 cups of primo stuff man. Here are some pics.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234Collection_cup.JPG
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234Risertube_goop.JPG
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234The_Jug.JPG
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/642345_cups.JPG
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234Fairly_Dark.JPG
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/64234Opacity_check.JPG
After about Tuesday I quit fiddling with it and left it alone. This next week I'll toy with throttling back the input a bit and see what happens. I hesitate to change much because I'm very happy with the current performance. Overall I'm very satified with this skimmer. It's totally un-modded at this point and don't plan on any for now. Later on I might go ahead with the mesh-mod. I would recommend this skimmer to anyone.

[JagerEinheit]

hahn any updates as far as pump changes? have you tried one of your RD clones on this as a recirc?

[hahnmeister]

An RD clone on here? No... that would be insane. Early attempts w/o even the full mod being completed on the Laguna pumps are giving results of over 100scfh (120ish) with those pumps (yeah, we are beating the actual Red Dragon numbers). This is about 4-5x what this skimmer body could even handle. The Laguna pumps are beating out ReefFlo Dart needlewheels even... and with less wattage (under 100 somewhere... need more time to get a final number).

Anyways...

I should post some updates:

My Recirc 265 is alright. I have it hooked up to a system of two 40 breeders that have had decent skimming up until this point, so I wasnt expecting the nasty nog pics like some others. When you dont skim a tank for a while, and then start skimming, of course you are going to be extracting some baby-pooh... theres tons to go around.

As far as my experiences, they are a little different.

These pumps are still pulling 9 scfh each while on the skimmer body... for a combined amount of 18 scfh (maybe 20 w/o the restriction of the meter itself). Not very much. A single Gen-X 4100 can pull 25 scfh unmodded. That is, and will continue to be my major gripe with this skimmer. It has a worse wattage/performance ratio than many beckett skimmers. In needlewheel form, they are just under 40 watts a piece... thats 76 watts for a mere 20 scfh. Ouch.

The pumps are also running hot. I must not have had them running long enough before, but now that they have been running for a while, the casings are very warm, almost hot. When I was breaking in the skimmer with just a 5g bucket, the skimmer pumps alone were able to keep the bucket at over 90 degrees.

So really, these pumps need to go. Direct replacements would be the Gen-X 2400, which the AE 590 is a clone of, or the Sedra 3500 which the Gen-X is based off of in the first place. Either way, the Euroreef pinwheel impeller may be the only way to improve performance on this skimmer to a possible 500lph (about 18 scfh) per pump. That would be good.

Now, putting those numbers aside, this skimmer does appear to be getting the job done, even on my system that produces unusually low amounts of skimmate. I had to dose phyto and feed like mad to get more skimmate out, but what I put in, the skimmer did seem to pull out. I have the skimmer set to more wet skimming, as I dont think I have enough in my tanks to produce the dark sludge that some can.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/AEskimmer20.jpg

So, Im at a crossroads here. I have to decide if I even want to keep the skimmer, or sell it ($210 + shipping if anyone wants). If I keep it, I will be taking it to the next level... Gen-X 4100 (a single 4100 is more cost and performance effective than trying to redo both of the existing pumps with better needlewheels or different pumps, even with the plumbing reworking Ill have to do on the body to fit the 4100), gut those 'T's out of the inputs, etc.

[JRaquatics]

I am not sure these pumps are even clones, I saw a genx2400 today and it looks exactly like the ones on these skimmer. I also have noticed a degree change in heat after I raised the skimmer, under preasure they seem to run warm. These pumps have me stumped, nothing seems to make them work any better than out of the box.

[JRaquatics]

Look at this page for comparison.
http://www.aquaeurousa.com/pumps.html
what do you think Hahn?
I wonder how cheap the 1000 are and the inlet and outlet specs are.

[JagerEinheit]

thanks for the update hahn, i have been lurking on more than a few of the less expensive skimmer threads looking for suitable replacements for a local store i help out at. the AE400 might be enough for their 360gallon system, but id have to re plumb it for external. not an enviable or maybe even possible task considering the metric plumbing on current models.

ill have to drop you a pm with some thoughts and questions ion swapping around to a recirc as well as your latest RD advancements.

[hahnmeister]

I wouldnt run more than 150g with the Classic 400.. it cant pull more than 30scfh... thats just not enough air to clean a larger tank well. I wouldnt bother re-plumbing it for external either... too easy to overflow. If anything, I would suggest getting the 265 body, and re-plumbing it for a Gen-X 4100. A couple of those would handle 360g well. OR, just get one larger custom skimmer with a 10" body and dual Gen-X 4100's from Orca Systems.

http://www.protein-skimmer.com/shopping.asp?id=446996&pg=1&merchantid=446996&catid=947&shopperid=40624&shop=itemlist.asp
All in all, you would most likely come out ahead by just getting the one custom skimmer... no modding, better performance...
FOR NOW. Well see what AE does (or doesnt do) from here...

[HoopsGuru]

I think you can safely go to a 180g with the Classic 400. I do it on my own which is now more heavily stocked with 20 fish, 14 anemones, soft corals, and some SPS. I now only have to clean a few spots from the glass once a week or so. Higher nutrient tanks could possibly go higher, those looking to skim out every last drop likely lower.

[HoopsGuru]

This thread has been referenced a few times:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1005653&perpage=25&highlight=genx%202400%20mod&pagenumber=7

on page 7 here you guys should see that RandyStaceyE has modded the 2400 with a mesh impeller and is extremely pleased with it. I don't know if this will give you guys any new ideas but I am going to try it when my Dwyer meter gets here on Monday.

[hahnmeister]

you know... the adapter on these skimmers may be 1/2", but the rest of the pipe is about 3/4"... enough for dual 4100s or Sedra 3500/5000s... then we would easily get over 500lph.

Hoops, as is, I havent seen any actual posts on what the actual airflow might be increased by with even prugs' mesh mod. Hes a good buddy of mine, so Ill call up and as if he's taken any readings... all I see him claim is a 3x improvement though... thats the closest thing I have seen.

[steve414]

He went back to the impeller that came with his pumps because he didn't see a difference. I will ask him if I could use them to see what it would do to my 400 he is coming over to check my vortech out to see how many watts its pulling.

[HoopsGuru]

I realize there is no concrete details, but at least it is somewhere to start. You tried mesh (but understandably didn't trim because of unknown replacements...which are still pending) and noticed no difference but over the several pages starting on 7...the folks saw very noticeable improvement after tweaking the impeller and using mesh on the 2400 including improvements that needed several hours to "break in". I don't belive the reputation of the RandyStacyE and others is in question as much as if i noted it :) so with a little luck their anecdotal perspectives might show hope, when i get my Dwyer meter I'm going to do some venturing of my own.

[hahnmeister]

Right, but without a meter, their perceptions mean nothing. All that improved when I did the mesh mod was the water throughput... no more air. This does make the pump look as though its pushing more air, since its output seems to be that much more turbulent, but in reality, there is nothing more going through the pump.

This is what sometimes makes me chuckle when people post pics of their skimmers with what always appears to be a 'frothy milk' inside. When you look at the 265, sure, you see a frothy milk... but unlike a skimmer that is 8" in diameter and pulls 1000-2000lph (like a H&S), you can actually see more water turbulence in this skimmer... which makes sense since these pumps are moving more water than anything.

[HoopsGuru]

Normally I would agree with you if we were say discussing "does dosing x, y, or z do anything", etc. However, for someone that has built there own skimmer and done a fair amount of modifications, and appears to have some clout amongst other DIYers....I am will to give them some credibility to a statement that doing a specific modification resulted in an obvious increase in skimmate production. Skimmers don't tend to suddenly change, so something must be happening, the only thing in question is whether or not the numbers justify the modification.

Like I said, I'll know a few days after I get my meter on Monday...and afterwards you can slap me with the big "I told you so" that you got propped on your shoulder. ;)

[hahnmeister]

Just sayin... when I did the mod, it looked like I was pullin more air because it looked like more was coming out of the motor... there was more coming out of the motor... WATER...lol.

I believe that by massive reduction in the total volume of the impeller, the throughput of air could be increased though. Adding mesh to the impeller just takes more volume from the impeller well/volute, and limits the air throughput. Sure, I may have raised the pump's potential to move more air and water, but I also took away the space it has to work with. But until more impellers are a sure thing, Im a little wary of chopping up what I have.

Im still awaiting the info from others who have taken this step, and if their results prove worth while... Ill start to chop things up.

[JRaquatics]

were can you get genx 2400 reg. impellers? Those should work in these pumps.

[HoopsGuru]

www.customaquatic.com

[JRaquatics]

I know they have them but they have been on back order since before I got my skimmer.

[hahnmeister]

Well, I started hacking up my 265 this weekend. Used a dremel from the outside to cut out all the 'T' fittings on the inside. The piping used on the 265 is 3/4" BTW, so Im thinking it might be a simple mod to thread up a pump with a 3/4" outlet... like a Gen-X 4100 or Oceanrunner 3700 (hey, I have a couple of those laying around!). I can do some plumbing trickery to make it work. So far, this might be the easiest and best mod to do because I wont even have to make more holes in the body, just redo the plumbing. I think I can use the existing unions, just finding a US union that mates with the Metric union fitting at the flange part... shouldnt be hard to find. Then I can place a single OR 3700 on there, and cut my wattage in half, yet still get about 8-10x the air.

[Jester]

can you let us know where you get the pieces for the unions that will hold US piping... I have a recirc 135 and would love to swap out the stand-pipe outlet assembly for a custom made one out of US 1 1/4" PVC piping, but as we all know that will not fit the supplied fittings of the AquaEuro... Thanks...

Jester

[hahnmeister]

The standpipe on the 265 is most likely a larger diameter, not to mention, the standpipe doesnt need to be changed or anything, so Im not touching it. Im just redoing the pump inlets to take an Oceanrunner 3700, prolly just going to use the one and cap the other side's inlets and outlets (thats so easy to do too). I might just bore out the entire union though... not sure yet... depends on how easily the rest of the modifying on the clear plastic piping goes that connects the inside of the unions to the main body... it doesnt bore out nicely... Im thinking it might be a challenge to hone it... it tends to melt too easily rather than just sanding away.

[Straegen]

If I understand correctly, the GenX 2400 will plug right onto this skimmer without having to make any plumbing changes. Is this correct? After reading the Classic 400 thread and pump problems I am thinking of just chucking the pumps and moving to a more proven brand. Any other pumps to look at like the Sedras that don't require any replumbing?

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, also the Sedra 3500 possibly, and the Sen pumps. All 1/2" output and 1" intake. The thing is that Gen-X pumps have been known to have the steel plate problem as well (I knew about Gen-X pumps having the problem in the past, so I had considered cracking mine open to check, but figured the 265 is external anyways, and if anything I was going to chuck the pumps for other reasons anyways). So maybe I would suggest another type of pump all together. I wonder what the fittings are on the Oceanrunner 2500 pumps... should be about the same as the AE 265 if I remember right. That might be an easy replacement.


edit: The OR 2500/2700 is 3/4" in and out. Thats not too bad though, as a simple bushing on the intake, and one on the outlet would be easy enough to adapt the pump to this skimmer.

The best option though... just get out the 1.75" hole saw and drill out the fittings on the skimmer for a 1" uni-seal, then just pipe it with a single pump that is much larger. FWIW, there are many larger pumps, like the OR 3500, Gen-X 4100, eheim 1262, etc, that would easily run this skimmer at 800+ lph of air and under 50 watts... not to mention, the one larger pump is cheaper than a couple smaller ones. With a plumbing retrofit, you can then mount the pumps directly on the skimmer body then as well, so there are no elbows to restrict the pump's air output (elbows on the outlet of a needlewheel are performance killers, elbows on the intakes arent), and the air intake can be much higher than if the pump is 'base-mount', for more air intake.

I drilled my skimmer for dual 1" Uniseals, and Im running an OR 3500 on it now that Im modding. As for the intake plumbing on the skimmer, I left it, as the restriction at this point isnt so bad, and I joined the 5/8"ish ID plumbing with 3/4" PVC for the pump intake. No venturi needed on the pump then, and Im able to get about 1000lph of air with the OR 3500 so far. Much better than dual Sedra 3500 or Gen-X 2400s would do on this skimmer.

[Straegen]

Going on sheer rating, I can get two GenX 2400s for $68 shipped to me which run 4800lph combined for 80watts. The GenX4100 is $57 shipped, 4100lph and 70watts. I believe the 4100 mods much better, but for $11, no install hassle as well as not that many more watts (rated at least) the 2400 looks like a winner to me. I can understand going with a larger pump that is known to pull more, but I am really looking to improve easily versus maximizing air intake. These two additional pumps puts the skimmer in the $340 range shipped for me which seems like a pretty good deal if those 2400s can pull more than 20 on the air intake once mesh modded. What I can't seem to find is what the 2400s are pulling with the mesh mod.

Thanks for the extremely helpful info.

[AquaEuroUSA]

We would like to sincerely apologize for the rusty pumps. We appreciate our customers and are working to get this issue resolved as quickly as possible. If you have yet to check the back of your pumps, please do so immediately. If you have rust or an exposed metal plate, please give us a call at 1-800-978-3480 and speak with Johnnie. Give her your name, phone number, address, the pump model and # of pumps, and where you purchased your skimmer from. We will be sending you a label, so that you can mail the pumps back to us. As soon as we get the replacement pumps, we will be able to ship the pumps out quicker since we'll already have your address on file. Again, if you have not checked the back of your pumps, please do so immediately.

AquaEuroUSA

[carlisimo1969]

I must say I am quite disappointed at this turn of events. I am however encouraged by the company's desire to make things right. I have my 265 recirc plumbed externally, what is the likelyhood of rust occuring on externally plumbed units?

Unfortunately my current work schedule will make it difficult to open the back of my pumps to check for rust and/or remove them for a while, but I will call the number above to give my info.

I love my 265 and it's performed like a champ from day 1, so if AquaEuro can handle this situation efficiently, I will have yet another solid reason to recommend them to anyone.

[AquaEuroUSA]

If you are running the skimmer externally, then your pumps will not be affected by rust. It mainly concerns those running the skimmers in sump.

[hahnmeister]

Are the replacement pumps the same make/model, just corrected? Or are they new pumps all together? As stated, if the skimmer is external, then the rust isnt a problem... but I wonder if a different pump is being used, because that could mean different performance.

[JRaquatics]

Hey Hahn, How's it going? Any results yet to your mod on the AE skimmer? Well I am ordering a pump today for my AE classic 135. I think I am going to get a OR 2500 and mesh mod it. What do you think this pump will pull? Do you think I should go with a larger one or a Octo pump instead. I just don't want to be dissapointed in an underpowered or over powered pump. I was also thinking if it is best to cut off the T that is in the mixing chamber? I really don't see the point in this except restrict flow.

[hahnmeister]

Well, the 'T' on the 135 makes more sense since there is only one. On the 265, the 'T's split up the pump outputs only to recombine them in the skimmer... useless. You could replace the 'T' with an elbow if you bore out the whole fitting for a uni-seal. The OR 2700 isnt the performer like the 3700. When you jump down from the 900gph 3500 to the 600gph 2500, you would think that the air intake goes down from 800lph stock to 528 lph, but it doesnt... its lower than that (comparing stock numbers, the 3700 modded with mesh will do over 1000lph, but the 2700, lucky to get over 500).

The best pump I could think of that would match up this skimmer just right... The Aquabee 2001... You can get the DAS one for cheap...
http://stores.petorama.net/Detail.bok?no=51

It will do a solid 500lph of air stock, and just over 600 modded. It also causes much less turbulence because along with that air, it moves alot less water.

[JRaquatics]

The AquaB costs a little more than what I wanted to spend on a pump. Do you think my skimmer can handle a 3500/3700 OR? What do you think of the octo 2000?

[hahnmeister]

No, the skimmer wont handle a 3500-3700... too much turbulence and water flow. The octo 2000 is the same as the OR 2500/2700. Perhaps you should check in the Octo modding thread to see if anyone has been able to mod a 2000 very well.

[skwirl]

the das ab is only $109 i think. the or isnt much cheaper than that if i remember correctly. i have 2 of em, and they are grrr8!!

[normanviking]

Hahn, what is a good combo for the 400? Pump wise? I am still thinking about getting the Hydro foamers or one. Any idea when that Eheim needlewheel is coming out?

[normanviking]

DP

[JRaquatics]

Hahn, what's your opinion on the sedra 3500 like ASM and ER uses?

[hahnmeister]

Its limited. Tops out at 450-480lph of air on a short skimmer. The Sedras are what all the other pumps are copies of (Gen-X, Sen, Aqua Euro), and usually better made (more efficient). My solution would be to use one larger pump rather than two smaller ones though. The exception to this would be with the Aquabees. A couple of them would be a great match for this skimmer, although a single eheim 1260/1262 would just be easier to come across/mod. I know the eheim isnt the cheapest way to go, but think of it this way...
$250 for the skimmer, $120 for the pump (maybe $100 more if you just opt for the ER pinwheel rather than mesh-mod the stock impeller), and you have a 30" tall, 8" diameter, 900+lph of air recirc skimmer. What else out there is close? A H&S A200-1260 for $1000! And in the end, its still less money, and a better skimmer in the end than an Octopus DDNW200.

[JRaquatics]

hahn, I only have a 135 classic. wouldn't a eheim 1260 be too much for a 6 in mixing chamber and a 2.75in neck?

[hahnmeister]

Oh yeah...lol. Its enough for the 265.

An aquabee 2000/1 might be a good match for you though. The pet-o-rama sells them for DAS skimmers for about $100 w/ the needlewheel and all. That would be an easy convert.

[JRaquatics]

What's the differences between the aquabee 2000, Sedra 3500, octo 2000 and Gex 2400?

[hahnmeister]

The Aquabee is a slightly smaller (520gph) pump, but it draws in more air (less water and wattage though). The Aquabee pulls in 480-500lph of air. You can mesh mod them to get about 600lph per pump. Otherwise, the rest are very similar. The Gen-x 2400 is a clone along with the AE 265, of the same pump that does 600gph and 500lph of air on a good day. The Sedra is the original of what so many of the others are based on, but the 3500 is a much smaller pump. http://www.saltycritter.com/pumps/sedra-pumps.htm

So of the lot of them, the aquabee is the best performer. The Sedras CAN be good performers, but only with the Euro-reef pinwheels... the regular needlewheels that places like http://www.saltycritter.com/pumps/sedra-pumps.htm sell them with do not perform as well.

The ER version of the 3500 costs..... $98! (or $115 if external just like the Aquabee), so you might as well get the Aquabee.

Here, look around...
http://www.euro-reef.com/products.shtml

http://commerce2.i2net.com/able5stores/stores/33/category.aspx?SID=33&Category_ID=335&

[JRaquatics]

Thanks Hahn, what is the difference in the 2000 & 2001? Is this a 2001? http://stores.petorama.net/Detail.bok?no=7

Do you know of any othe places that sell these, or where I can get thread size and body size of these AB pumps?

[hahnmeister]

The performance is the same for the 2000 and 2000/1 at 0'. If you look at Aquabees site, the 2000/1 is a slightly higher wattage pump that has a higher head pressure. I would imagine that all else aside, its prolly the same pump with a faster motor. I see 2000s on shorter skimmers, and 2000/1s on taller ones, so my guess is that the 2000/1 is for taller skimmers, because it must maintain better suction with pressure than the 2000.
http://www.aquabee-aquarientechnik.de/d_up3000.htm
From here:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1054301&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

Kb-says:
"I know they don't come with the 2000. They come with either the 2000/1 or 2001. I think they come with the 2000/1 that the deltec APF600 uses."

Im not sure if KB knows this, but 2001 and 2000/1 are the same pump.

Later, he posts this pic:
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/7203/attachmentiy0.jpg

The 2000/1 does slightly better than the 2000, so you are getting the better pump. Considering Deltec and H&S want $250 for their version, and the DAS performs just as well...

[JRaquatics]

Well Iwill let you know how it works out. Do you know what the inlet and outlet size of these are?

[Straegen]

The aquabees seem to be king of the hill right now, but I was reading the Sicci pumps are doing great numbers as well. What is the latest on affordable upgrades?

[JRaquatics]

The ABs are great pumps. Soon as my Dwyer meter comes I will give some readings of it reg and mesh modded. Thanks again Jon for te recomendation. I would have never thought about these pumps because of the $. Who new that DAS ABS were cheaper than H&S and deltec? I am sure glad you did. My skimmer is a poop vacuum now.

[Straegen]

Do they jack right in or do you have to change around the fittings for the ABs?

[hahnmeister]

I think you have to do some minor plumbing changes. Nothing with the pipes or anything, just threaded adapters.