Need help with green algae!

[Iwannabeafish]

This is my first post, I know the information is probably here somewhere on this site, but I am running out of time. I work 2 jobs and just can't spare any more hours to search for help, so I'm posting.

My 2 (33, 38) gallon tanks are 6 months old. I have lived through the brown diatom and red slime cyano blooms. I finally beat the red with a combonation of techniques I learned from hours of searching threads and data here. Thanks, this is a great site!

However, now I have huge amounts of green algaes, and am out of time to search it down. Most is "fuzzy" med. green which detaches and floats getting caught in everything, where it seems to root and grow. A small amount in the shaded areas is much darker green, almost black, and grows in longer strands. On outlets and powerheads where there is high flow, a bright green almost flourescent algae grows in hairlike threads. The fuzzy stuff as I call it (can you post pictures here? and how?) is the worst and is rapidly taking over. I manually remove lots everyday but it is still choking out some things like my colt coral because I see no way to remove the stuff without damage. Some blows off but not much...

<TANK INFO>

2 tanks in a vertical rack, in a corner of a room with large picture window, no direct sunlight but it is a bright room. Lower tank seems to get less indirect daylight so grows less algae. Both tanks have 2 30w flourecent bulbs, one Life Glow, one Marine Glow (actinic) on about 12-14 hrs/day. Light seems adequate, corals have deffinitely grown. Niether tank is over bio-loaded (I think) nor overfed (learned about nutrient rich on the red slime!)

.
TOP TANK has undergravel (some say this is bad, some say good, who is right???) with 2 powerheads sucking, A Skilter 400 hang on filter (now with useless skimmer part removed) and a Prizim skimmer.
40 lbs. of great purple live rock on crushed coral, which I know should be sand.
2 small Percula Clowns living in a entacmaea quadricolor (bubble tip) anemone and one mandarin fish. Corals include a gorgon, colt, green star polyp, and what I now belive is a disk anemone although I bought it as a musroom. Inverts include a brittle star, a small red star, a cleaner shrimp, a sally lightfoot, a green emerald crab (so covered in algae I think he will soon die) lots of small feather worms, tiny white starfish and stuff that came on the rock, 10-12 turbo snails, 10-12 small blue hermitts, who don't clean the stuff at all???
There is one green plant of some culerpa type I think, which is loosing to the green algae.

Amonia - 0, PH - 8.2, KH - 100, Calcium - 420, Nitrate - 5, Phosphate - 0, Nitrite - 0

BOTTOM TANK has undergravel under C.C. with 2 powerheads BLOWING (reversed, not sucking) which seems to work much better than the top tank which are sucking. Much cleaner bottom. There is an Emperor with a biowheel and a new Tetra Tec 300(which is supposed to cycle wet dry but doesn't, any ideas???) NO SKIMMER. There is much less algae in this tank and it looks and tests perfect despite this. The good purple calcerous(sp?) algae is speading rapidly! In this tank there is only a large green metalic mushroom colony, a Royal Gramma and a Coral Beauty. Cleanup crew includes a brittle star, a sally lightfoot, snails and hermitts. A large caluerpa plant steadily grows.
This bottom tank has suffered less in each algal bloom, I can only assume that this is because it gets a little less indirect daylight nearer the floor.

Sorry, I know this post is too long, and yet probably lacks the info needed for a diagnosis. Let me know what else you need to know and thanks in advance for any help anyone may provide!

[tang_man_montreal]

What kind of water are you using???

If you're using tap water, that may be the problem... The use of RO/DI water is strongly encouraged.

[coachgail]

How old are your lights? How often do you change water? I am assuming these are small tanks, thus the really low wattage. Do you hvae an coralline algae growing?

[Iwannabeafish]

I am on a drilled well which we have tested ok, no phosphate, nitrate, nitrite or copper. It is UV sterilized as well as micron and carbon filtered. It is very cold since the well is 150 feet deep so I have to let it warm up.

I bought bottled RO water to start the 2nd tank because everybody said it was the thing to do, but it was so soft I had a rough time getting it hard enough for corals again, so reverted back to my well water which is 420 naturally. (and cheaper!)

Do you really need a RO unit? They are expensive and where do you plumb it it in? My tanks are in the living room. And I can't see myself paying for it and hauling all that water home. I've already spent a lot more than I expected and can't afford a RO unit now. There must be another solution!

Anybody know what my green stuff is anyway? Is it good or bad? Maybe I don't even need to worry about it. I've heard some green algae is beneficial, but this stuff seems to take over too quick to be good....and nothing seems to eat it....so I guess there are good and bad ones, how do you tell which you have??????

Thanks for the reply tang_man!

[MalHavoc]

I'll second Gail's comment about your lights. Fluorescent lights need to be changed at least once a year, maybe every 8 months, or the spectrum of light they produce will shift and favour algae growth.

I also notice that you have undergravel filters and crushed coral. both of these things can lead to algae blooms because crushed coral isn't fine enough for anerobic zones to develop, and it's too large for sand dwelling critters to sift through and eat trapped debris. Fine, sugar sized sand is what should be on the bottom of your tank. 4-6 inches of it, and no undergravel filters. They also produce a ton of nitrate, and plug easily, which means they require constant maintenance.

You don't -need- RO water. It will certainly make your life easier, though. Not only are there no phosphates in it, but there isn't any silicate as well, which leads to diatom blooms (the brown sludge you mentioned). I notice that you are in Canada (so am I), so if you don't want to buy an RO unit, you can get one gallon jugs of RO water filled up at stores like Loblaws or Sobey's. It's 65 cents a gallon here in Halifax. So, for the price of a cup of coffee, you can get all the water you need for a weekly water change, since it sounds like your tanks are fairly small. You are doing weekly water changes, right?

Hope some of this is useful.

[Iwannabeafish]

Wow, thanks for the quick replys! This really works, I should have posted long ago...

Anyway, to answer Coachgail, The tanks are small, 33 & 38 USgal.

The lights are young (6 months)and seem to be adequate since all corals have grown. My colt coral has doubled in size and I sucessfully split it after it grew onto another rock, however now they are getting choked by the green algae.

I change a small amount of water 2-3 % every 2-3 days. Roughly once a month I do a larger water change and major cleaning job.

As for coaralline algae, the bottom tank is growing it quickly everywhere! The top tank however shows no new growth and some rocks in the brightest light seem to be bleaching a little. Of course the darn green stuff is covering a lot of the purple too, will this no doubt kill it??????

The only differences in the 2 tanks are the that the bottom one has no skimmer but has REVERSE under gravel filtration, and gets slightly less inderect daylight. Yet it grows the good purple and pink algaes while the top one dies...... why???????

[MalHavoc]

If green algae overtakes your coralline algae, I'd say that it's in for a rough ride.

At this point, I'd suggest getting some test kits and measuring the levels of nitrate, phosphate, pH, and alkalinity in your tank. Do you dose with any supplements? Ideally, the only thing you should be adding to your tank is a calcium supplement and something to maintain your alkalinity.

[Iwannabeafish]

Hey MalHavoc! How's the weather in Halifax? Hot and humid (35) here. You have a great site and an awesome tank! My 33 gal looks pathetic in comparison. And all you have is a Prizim and 2 powerheads??? Who would have thought? Your tank inspires hope that I can have a great tank without a million dollars worth of complicated gizmos!!! One question - how the heck did you get room for 4 40 watt bulbs in 12x36??? (your hood isn't in the picture) I could only fit 2 30's. Maybe one more but no access then...

So, I guess I have to rip out the undergravel and C.C. Yikes, what a job... the logistics boggle my mind. I have about 2-3 inches of cc which I hate to waste, could I add 2-3 more of sand? ie. can you mix it? Your substrate looks kind of course in the July picture, is it a mix? I do seem to have lots of "bugs" and other critters in the coral (it IS pretty fine grind) Will adding sand cause a cycle? As for RO I am out in the sticks here, have to drive 30 km to get it...sigh... I guess I'll have to save up for my own unit...

Thanks for all your help! If you're ever coming to Ontario, drop byfor a Canadian, eh! ...Rick

[Iwannabeafish]

Hey Mal, thanks for the quick replys! Of course we have test kits!(Hagen Master test kit) The numbers are in my first post. (I know it's long and boring!) Everything is usually fairly normal. We did have our share of problems but have everything pretty much levelled out now. So why the green bloom????

As for supplements, I use Kent Liquid Calcium eveyday, Kent Kalkwasser everyday, Kent Strontium and mollybendium 2/week. I was adding kent iodine but stopped this as I heard it may cause red slime. My red slime is now almost gone, due to many changes I made, so I don't really know if the iodine contributed, but I still don't use just it in case...

You mentioned maintaining akalinity.....my alkalinity was low but has come up, What do you reccomend to maintain this? I have only 2 salt water stores within 100 km of me and they only stock Kent supplements. I guess I could mail/internet order better suppliments, if I knew which ones I needed???

...Rick

[Dov]

iwannabeafish,

First, do a search on hair algae, it's a scourge that seems to have plagued everyone at some point or another.

things to try:
1. Manually remove as much of the algae as you can from the substrate, rocks etc. (don't leave it in the water column as it will just boost the nutrients necessary to grow more)

2. Since you have UG and CC, you can vacuum - do so and do so well, there is probably A LOT of detritus down there that is promoting nitrates.

3. Ditch the UG and CC and install a DSB. It's a lot of work, but pays off in the long run.

4. (if you can) Move all inverts that require light to the bottom tank and drop the photo period in the top tank to nothing for a week(or until you see that the algae is gone) - then switch tanks and do the same with the lower...

Your cleanup crew will eat the hair algae (some of em anyway) if its not too long (less than 1cm)

Keep in mind that test kits will read 0 or near 0 for nitrates and phosphates because they are being used by the algae.

Good Luck! Hair algae can be a major PITA!

FWIW, Enforced darkness cleaned my tank up.

Dov

[Iwannabeafish]

So it IS hair algae! I wondered... first I had to identify it to search it, if I can find the time - so MUCH info here... so many differing opinins...takes hours to sift through it all, so hoped to get quicker help by posting and it's working! Thanks to all!!!!

Thanks for the tips, I can move the corals so I will try the enforced darkness. Should I cover the tank since it is a bright room or just leave the lights on that tank off????

Looks like everyone agrees I have to rip the undergravel out...sigh...I wish the guy at the fish store never would have sold me an undergravel and the crushed coral. I had 12 years of freshwater experience, and I ALWAYS used under gravel...he should have told me that they are out with salt water...hey, is it still good for freshwater? If so, anyone want to buy it?? (good ones, one-piece heavy plastic 12x36) (might make a nice dish-drainer)

Can I keep some crushed coral and add sand (50/50)or must I throw out 60 dollars worth of C.C.??????????????????????

[MJB]

Not that it matters, the answer to getting rid of all nusiance algae is pretty much the same but here's a few links that might help you put a name to the face.Good Luck--MJB
http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/algae_page/algae_gallery.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/greenalg.htm
http://www.algaebase.com/

[Dov]

iwanna...

You can cover the tank with a towel if it gets too much ambient light, I didn't have that problem where my tank was situated.

As for mixing the CC with sand, the sand will eventually sift to the bottom leaving the CC on the top - not desirable. You should make the switch in stages if you can. Remove the UGF and some of the CC, push all the CC over to one side of the tank, and replace with sugar sized sand bit by bit. This will allow the beneficial bacteria to migrate to the sand from the CC and not disturb the biological cycle you've already established. When all the CC is out, you will be amazed at the drop in nitrates (as well as the nitrogen bubbling out of the sand bed ;) )

[Iwannabeafish]

ok, I will rip out the UGF and do the sand switch. So, what KIND of sand do I need? My fish shops have many different kinds. This is probably a dumb question, I guess I can't just use plain sand?
( I work at a hardware store and we sell bags of washed silicate sand for 2.99) it is about sugar sized....

[coachgail]

If you can get Southdown sand, it is the best. If not, the play sand will be ok. Do not buy it at the LFS. I would get two bags, as you should need about 1.5-2 for both tanks.

[Dov]

Everybody loves southdown, but I doubt you can get it in canada. I know it's a PITA to get it on the west coast. the silica play sand will work, rinse it twice, then rinse it again :p or you'll have super cloudy tank. For my 60G I used 50# silica playsand and 40# aragalive (from carib sea) live sand. My nitrates dropped from +60 to 0 FAST. It dropped so dramatically I was actually worried :eek1:. I haven't added any of the critter kits I've seen advertised, but my DSB has definitely come alive with 'pods thanks to adding more live rock over the past few months.

HTH

[MalHavoc]

Iwannabeafish,

First, thanks about the comments of my tank. It's my pride and joy. It didn't always look that way - There was a time when I was battling hair algae myself, although not to the extent that you seem to be.

My tank isn't 12 inches wide - it's 16. I have four bulbs, and each one is about a half inch apart when installed in the cabinet.

You can get southdown sand here in Halifax, but I'm not sure whether or not it's available in central Canada. Home Depot here carries it, although I've only ever seen it sold by the pallet here, which is a bit more than I need, unless I can convince my wife that the 3000 gallon tank can go in the living room :D

Weather here has been hot! Not as hot as you guys are getting though, but definitely hot!

[Iwannabeafish]

Hello everyone and thanks for the replies. We've been away for a while and even though my boat broke and had to be towed home, cutting our holiday short, at least my buddy took good care of my tanks.

Still lots of green though, haven't been able to find sand to do the switch yet... This Southdown is a brand name or type of sand??? People here in Ontario look at me like I'm asking for moon-rock!

So, this DSB needs to be 6 inches deep???? My tanks are only 18 and 22 inches deep, this will take up a full third of the tank!?!!? I don't think every thing will fit back in!:confused:

About the lights, my tank is 16 inches also (duh, should have measured first) what kind of bulbs and ballast are you using? Compact florescent? The highest watt bulbs I can find in reg. bulbs are only 30 w in 36" length...not much selection out in the sticks small fish stores...
I would like to add more light....

[coachgail]

You can go here: www.eagledistrib.com and get bulbs for a lot cheaper (they also sell VHO) the longer the bubl, the higer the wattage in NO.

DSB--4-6 inches

To add more light you will have to upgrade to VHO, halides or PC